86 RX7 Turbo LM7 and Megasquirt EFI

[mobythevan]

Will my parts interchange with a 4.8l?  Like intake, alternator, water pump?  Thanks for the help, I am just screwed at this point until I can dig something up, unless you guys really want to see that BBC in there, here is a pic of it:

It had a distributor in this picture, but it actually run distributorless wasted spark, and is fuel injected with Megasquirt control.  It is built and I have fired it, very tempting at this point since I am interested in drag racing and not really street or road racing.



I pulled everything out last night and got it organized in preparation for finding another engine.  I figured the best way to handle the bad luck was to work twice as hard to make it to the racetrack.  Tonight I picked up the infamous 31052 pinion snubber on the way home.  I will get it installed in the down time.

This reminds me of those goofy bad news/good news commercials on TV.  The bad news is my LS1 is cracked, the good news is that it was easy to install the mechanical speedo tailhousing with the tranny pulled

After doing some quick research and looking around it seems there are several LM7's in the area and that is what I am going to do with the car.  That just concretes installing the TV71 turbo.  I can always get the smaller turbine housing for the TV71 if the 5.3 doesn't spool it good enough.  So I'm taking the truck into town tomorrow and hopefully coming home with an LM7 that has a 30-90 day warranty from the local salvage yard.  Then I can install it This weekend and see where I stand.

My main goal still stands to get the engine in and go to the dragstrip in August with no turbo, then drive the car until October.  After that I will start the turbo stuff.  Of course if my rear end blows, or the tranny blows then I will start sooner.

That was a close call though, I almost tried to fit that BBC in there before I regained my sanity.  I measured and the supercharger belt would have run about one hair away from the radiator.  :eek: Not to mention it would look like one of those cartoon cars with 2 feet of blower sticking out the top.

[mobythevan]

Keep in mind I'm running the 700r4.

I picked up a 5.3 today from the salvage yard. 44k miles. I'm taking the rest of today off work and heading home to start installing it.

Looks like I will need to swap the oil pan, intake, coil packs and water pump right off the bat.

Hopefully will be running and tuning on Sunday.



I printed out the list of stuff to swap from the LS1 to 5.3 from the thread by Kingwalrus. I am in the middle of it right now and just came in to eat something. Its all going good so far. Looks like I am going to need to rent a pulley installer tomorrow to swap pulleys. I pulled both of them already, but my installer only works on old SBC/BBC.

What an adventure. I am already preparing myself in case the transmission goes or the rear end goes

here is the list of stuff to swap on the 5.3 from kingwalrus's post:

A hole must be drilled and tapped on the front of the block to accomodate the alternator. The hole just isn't there like it is on the LS1. M10x1.5 tap and a R sized cobalt drill bit makes quick work of the needed hole.

I had to use the following LS1 parts:

Oil pan
windage tray
oil pickup tube
dipstick tube (because the one that came with the motor was bent to ♥♥♥♥)
intake manifold
accessory mounting brackets
crank pulley
pilot bearing
fuel rails
water pump
belt tensioner

I also swapped the steam vent pipe.

I went into town this morning and luckily the dealer had 1 crankshaft bolt.  And, just as lucky, Ace had the M16x2 all thread to make a nice pulley installer.  If I don't have any trouble installing the pulley I will isntall the engine and tranny tonight. That will just about put me back on track.  I can say one thing for certain, the 5.3 is one hell of a lot cleaner on the inside than the LS1 was.  The LS1 had quite a bit of oil build up.  THe 5.3 basicaly looks new inside.

[mobythevan]

I actually talked to Ben about the engine, he said he woud refund my money.  I told him I didn't feel right about him refunding because he was really screwed by the guy he bought it from, but he said he was refunding anyway.  He is a good guy and I believe he did not know about the damage because he never tried to use the engine.

BTW, I got the 5.3 installed today.  All that is left to do is reconnect the megasquirt relay board to the harness and I can fire the new engine.  I'm waiting until tomorrow to fire it up, just to give me a night to think if I missed anything.  I am going to do a compression check once it is warmed up just to be sure this time. 

Hopefully will be test driving tomorrow!!

I went back through the time I spent on the car since discovering the carnage and it turns out to be right at 40 hours to pull it and do all the 5.3 changes, then re-install it.  Not too bad, but I'm going to have to get a lot faster to compete with the Top Fuel guys:D

yeah, the 5.3 came with a 30 day warranty.

I got it fired up today. Remember that ear piercing whining noise, yeah it was still there. It turns out that I have blocked off the IAC on the TB with a plate, which left a huge hole in the TB. That was making all the noise, put the IAC back in the manifold, noise is gone. If you ever want to really annoy people and blow there ear drums just remove your IAC and put a blockoff plate there.

Set idle, checked charging circuit, oil pressure, etc. Idles real nice. I let it come up to temp and then shut down to do a bunch of little stuff so I can drive it. I mounted the megasquirt board and relay board. I've got some pictures, I'll get them posted tomorrow. Using the evap solenoid as my FIDLE control with megasquirt works pretty nice.

I think there are just about 10 or les little things left that I noticed today. One thing is that I need to connect the megasquirt tach output to the RX7 tach. That is a new feature and the MS will run the dash tach like the LS1 ECU does. It has the four cylinder output mode.

The big thing now is to get my wideband moved over from the Talon and tune the car. If things go good now I am planning to take the car to the Pueblo dragstrip on August 10th.

Oh, BTW, do you guys have any recomendations for the rev limit on the 5.3 engine? I did a quick search on ls1tech but didn't turn up anything. I had determined to set the LS1 to 6200.

[mobythevan]

Pictures from the weekend:

Pile of swap parts from LS1 to LM7


LS1 oil pan


Drill and tap for second alternator bolt


LM7 installed


Megasquirt mounted in engine compartment for drag races (I put those pink wires into the loom now)


While I was installing the engine in the RX7 my friend finished his FMIC on his talon.  Yeah, I'm going to blow that thing away



So dieselgeek (who works with Parish on the vehicles AFAIK) told me that they are also installing megasquirt with the ignition control this week, but he didn't say which vehicle. I know he runs megasquirt on the truck, but only for fuel control last I heard. I hadn't heard if they are running it on the 5.3 car. I read through the thread and they are running completely stock internal except valve springs. I believe it, control the detonation and you can surpass most peoples expectations of reliability on any engine.

BTW, thanks for the encouragement on the project. Maybe the first test drive tonight, if not definitely tomorrow. My wife is really supportive of me with the cars, she has her own hobby/business with horses so it goes both ways.

I am starting to put some serious thought into my plan for the rear end setup and transmission once the turbo is installed. I will of course run until I break the stock diff, just in case, you never know

[mobythevan]

I took the car for a drive last night, but it was a real short one.  The driveshaft is binding so I have to re-check the angles again.  I thought they were OK, but I guess not.

I'll check it out tonight and start tuning.

The thing is a beast for sure, I barely touched the gas in reverse and left two trenches in the dirt about 6 feet long.  Yeah traction, I have none.



OK, next update:

I got the driveshaft problem fixed good enough for now. I shimmed the tranny up a little bit. I drove the car a little bit with no tuning, didn't get after it at all until I tune. I installed the bung for the wideband sensor. My cooling fan is working well, controlled by megasquirt. My dash tach is working, also controlled by megasquirt. Water temp gauge is working in the dash. The oil temp in the dash does not work, so I have a cheapo summit oil gauge installed for now. I got my heat shield on to protect the fuel lines under the car. Also got a quicky heat shield to help protect the megasquirt while it is in the engine compartment.

I made a list of things to keep an eye on. One being the .040" clearance between the oil pan and steering rack. I have various things going on, mostly small stuff. I don't have any leaks and so far the car doesn't act like it has any steam/coolant heating issues.

I orderd the knock sensor interface module for megasquirt today to help with tuning. I talked with the guy that makes the module and he says it will work with the two LSx knock sensors. He also sets it up based on the cylinder bore which is 3.779 for the 5.3

Tonight I plan to work a bit on tuning the fuel and spark. I am also working to get insurance and plates on the car. Mainly so I can tune on the street, I live wayyyyy out in the sticks with plenty of unused roads to tune on.

Then the last thing I have to sort out is what tire to run at the dragstrip. I see that the 26x8.5 slicks work on the stock rims, but $300 for them and $100 for tubes?

Also, I have the pinion snubber, but have not installed it yet.

Otherwise I think I am just in the tune/troubleshoot phase now. Still targeting August 10th to hit the track, but I may not have tires sorted out by then, so it may be a traction limited track night.

[mobythevan]

I got plates and insurance on the car.  I also got the pinion snubber installed.

Started tuning on the road and found out that I am not getting a clean trigger signal to the Megasquirt from the LSx crank sensor.

I tried a couple quick tests from my past experience with megasquirt, but still the same behaviour.  I am going to put a scope on the signal tonight and see what is happening.  It is very likely that I am getting noise coupled into the crank sensor wire.  I don't have it shielded right now and I placed megasquirt right next to the pssgr side coils.



I think I found my problem with the trigger input to megasquirt not being steady, but I have to test the fix tonight.

I was powering my LSx crank and cam sensors with 5 volts, they are suppose to be powered with 12 volts. I have been emailing dieselgeek to try to figure this out and it came up that I was using the wrong voltage due to an assumption on my part. Typical megasquirt stuff.

Well, it drives pretty nice, I had to fix a couple places where my exhasut was hitting the body.  The power steering rack is capped off, but it didn't seem too bad using armstrong

The problem is that I still didn't get that crank sensor trigger cleaned up to the megasquirt, so it is like running on 7 cylinders.  Still enough to dig trenches all the way up my driveway.  But I can't finish the tuning until I fix this.  I am still a bit perplexed.  I got a good scope on the system and everything checks out OK so far.  Maybe a bug yet with the code since the LS1 mode is new and AFAIK no one is running the new code version on an LS1 to confirm.  Maybe coupling noise on the crank sensor wire, but I doubt that because I see problems just during cranking with the coil and injectors disconnected. 

I'll keep plugging away at it, bound to fix it sooner or later.  If I don't get to the track in August there is a US performance series race on October 14th and a real street race on October 13th, so I'll shoot for those.

I have had some problems in the past with megasquirt installs that took a while to iron out, but for the most part I have had really good luck with it.  Might just be my turn in the barrel :dunno:

I have been through a ton of experiments and I think I got it figured out. The newest addition to the megasquirt code for the cam sensor input is not working as advertised for me. No one else has confirmed it works yet, so I am just going to build a small pulse generator circuit to bypass this problem. The pulse circuit has been confirmed by other people. So with any luck tonight or tomorrow I will have it running 100% and finish tuning.

Definitely going to be updates to the megasquirt notes once I confirm this works.

[mobythevan]

Fixed 3 things and now I get steady rpm and the car is running pretty good. I am working on tuning now. I updated the settings in this thread to reflect what I found.

1. I had a bad opto transistor, it finally quit all together.
2. I had some settings wrong in megatune.
3. I had a bunch of higher frequency noise all over my MS setup. I added bypassing caps to the following wires on the relay board (.01uF and .22uF): battery 12volt, switched 12v, crank sensor input, cam sensor input, injector bank 1 control, injector bank 2 control.

Now I am going to install the knocksense module to monitor while tuning.

Also, I get a little bit of popping out the pipe at about 80kpa and 2000rpm. Could that happen if I'm too rich, it is definitely rich right now as I am just starting tuning. I've got the wideband on it. That popping concerns me a little, but it only does it in that one spot at about half throttle. If I go WOT it doesn't do it, but I haven't looked over the log files yet.

I am going to continue tuning and cleaning up little things this week and take the car to the track in Pueble this Friday. It might not be much to see at this point unless I get a lot of time to tune on it, but its starting to run and this is the last test and tune.

Two pretty funny things from my wife, she was riding with me helping watch some things on the laptop. I am telling her that it just doesn't feel like its running that good, then I take off in 1st up to about 4K and ratchet up to 2nd. The car throws us back violently and burns the tires a bit. She looks over and says: "And you don't think its running good?" 

Then I try a little launch, stock converter so I stall it at about 1100-1200 and let off the brake while mashing the throttle. From the passenger seat I hear "Woh". I asked her if she wanted to tune while I drive or if she wanted to drive. She said she would drive

[mobythevan]

There is only one smiley that fits for last night:  :owned:

Yeah, I decided to see how the engine runs now on 8 cylinders.  Thats right, the last two weeks it has been running on 7.  Now that I got all the computer signals cleaned up I noticed #2 was not firing(it would fire about 10% of the time).  Changed the plug and the engine runs perfect now.  That was also causing the popping out the pipe.  Now it runs 100%, and the transmission isn't liking it.  Feels like it is slipping.  I'm going to get a pressure gauge on it and make sure the TV cable is adjusted correctly and go from there.  The wife was with me again and now she knows what it really runs like   I told her it wasn't running right, but I hadn't done any tuning yet so I kept dismissing the engine miss.  Track this friday if I don't break it and if I can get the tranny to work.

[mobythevan]

I got the TV cable setup adjusted better. For one thing I was only getting about 75% throttle. I fixed that and then re-adjusted the throttle body cam for the TV cable, then adjusted the TV cable itself. Now it switches gears from 1st to 2nd around 4800rpm and the car just fishtales. I haven't done any fuel tunng yet, it is 10-11 across the board at WOT. Also I have the timing set 2 degrees below a stock high octane map. So there will be plenty of room for improvement in fuel and spark tuning, but I can't get very good traction already.

My back tires were bald so I went this morning and got two new cheapo street tires for the back. I will get some slicks going in the next couple weeks, but after all the work I just want to get out and play a little.

I going to try to get the fuel map more around high 12's uner WOT tongiht and tomorrow then load it on the trailer and see what I learn at the track.

Next on the list will be a camshaft and valve spring change, torque converter and slicks.

Its starting to get fun now!!

You guys probably saw my trip to the track post. The 700r4 and the street tires were a dissapointment. I am getting a powerglide built locally for the car and putting slicks on it, then head back to the track. I am also swapping in the Z06 cam and springs. I got those ordered last week to raise my rev limit from the stock LM7 cam. I picked that cam because it will work well with the turbo for now. I am still not planning to start any of the turbo install until the car gets down the track good with glide/slicks/new cam.

At least this way I'll pick up a converter/trans brake and good transmission. Then I think I will only have to worry about how long the stock NA rear end lasts.

[mobythevan]

I am officially finished with the 700R4. I tried adjusting the pressure with a gauge and made sure the TV system was set up properly, but it still won't shift. I knew the 700R4 would not carry me to my final goals, so its finished.

I dug out my powerglide core and I'm taking it to the builder tomorrow.

I also picked up the ford 8.8 rear axle this weekend. 3:55 posi from t-bird.

For my goals I decided I will go ahead and install the glide, granny's 8.8 kit and 10 point cage this winter. I will also put driveshaft loop and tranny shield in. I can't remember if the granny 8.8 kit has the loop built in?

If I can sell a couple more parts I should have the money to also complete the turbo isntall this winter since it looks like my original goal of running the car a few times non-turbo is going out the door because I'm running out of track time this year.

EDIT: as you can see this car is pretty much becoming a purpose built drag car. I will keep it street legal as long as possible, but I don't see it as being a daily driver car in the end

[mobythevan]

The shop tore down my powerflide core and said it looked good, so now they will build it up.

I only need injectors, new fuel rail and an external wastegate to complete my turbo parts.

I also picked up the FB lower links and watts linkage for the 8.8 install. Now I just need to save the money to order the granny's kit and new axles.

I am going to start with 7psi boost and no intercooler. Once that is set up and running good I will decide my next move.

I know I always get lost reading other peoples build threads so here is a quick re-cap.

What I am working towards: (in case anyone lost track)

LM7 engine with LS1 intake/LS6 550 lift cam/LS6 springs (stock internals)
76mm turbo (start with 7psi and no IC)
Built powerglide with brake and high stall converter(haven't picked stall yet)
Megasquirt EFI, LC-1 wideband, Knocksense module
New injectors, New fuel rail
8.8 granny's solid axle
Slicks

I ran the car at the track with:

Stock LM7 with stock cam (LS1 intake, stock injectors, stock rail)
Megasquirt EFI, LC-1 wideband
No turbo
Stock FC rear end
700R4 tranny (wouldn't shift to 3rd)
Street tires (big mistake)

[mobythevan]

Once it runs with 7psi then I will at least crank up to 14psi with intercooler. After that it is just who knows.

I have 150# injectors setting around from a different project. I am thinking of running them if I can get it to idle. I will have to add a second fuel pump when I go above 7psi, that will be at the one pumps limit.

I run 18psi on my Talon. I would love to see that on the LM7 engine.
44. 

Ok, got an update. I picked up my built powerglide with transbrake and 4000 stall converter last night from the shop. I got a great deal on the converter because another guy had it built for his drag car and the stall wasn't as high as he wanted. I will have to check it for sure but it is suppose to be between 4000 and 4200. That should be a great starting point for my turbine housing size and camshaft. The shop put the stainless TH350 input shaft in my glide and that is how this converter was set up, so lucky timing. Otherwise I was going to get a converter built locally, but the price of that was much much more.

I am saving money for the granny's 8.8 rear end kit now. Once I have that I will be pretty much set up.

[mobythevan]

I've been away for a while gathering parts.  Some of these I already had but I thought it might be neat to get a pic with everything together. 

76mm turbo
T6 weld flange for the turbo
60mm external wastegate (SS cheapo)
High flow fuel rails
150lb injectors (there is a story behind these because we all know I don't need injectors that big)
550 lift Z06 405hp camshaft
Valve springs, locks and retainers for the Z06 camshaft
truck exhaust manifolds to point forward for hot side turbo piping
 
Also tossed in a pic of the built powerglide with transbrake and 4200rpm stall converter

[mobythevan]

rom Grannies. Just got off the phone with Grant and the conversion kit with caliper brackets is on order. I have the t-bird 8.8 diff already. The only thing left to order is new axles.

Here is the pic from their site:



Got some work done on the car over the holiday break.  Got the powerglide and 4k converter installed.  Got the z06 550 lift cam installed, new springs, new timing chain.  Installed turbo oil drain fittings on both sides of the oil pan for flexibility.  I will only use one of course, but wasn't sure which side I would be mounting the turbo when I installed them.

I am waiting on the 8.8 granny kit to arrive and I will be installing that next.

In the meantime I spent about 4 hours working out the trubo install plan and here is what I came up with(I am really happy with the way it is going to work out):

Put the turbo on the drivers side where the battery use to be(move battery inside passenger compartment).  The turbine inlet flange is then out where the alternator use to be(move alternator to passenger side).  There is a lot of room in this area to merge the hot pipes and mount the wastegate.  The charge outlet points straight down and goes through the sheet metal below where the battery use to be.  The charge pipe runs in front of the radiator and comes back through by the passenger headlight(great for adding FMIC).  This keeps the charge pipe out of the engine compartment to help congestion.  Passenger hot pipe goes below the water pump inlet and across below/between the lower pulley and electric fan.  Driver hot pipe leaves enough room for the 3-3.5" down pipe from the turbo to exit the drivers side of the engine compartment.  Heat shielding for wiring harness and brake booster/MC.  New fuel line down passenger side of car to stay away from exhaust.  Remove driver headlight and cut sheet metal for cone filter on inlet of turbo.  Turbo oil feed from tapped spot above oil filter(OEM oil cooler location).  Turbo drain to ½” fitting installed in oil pan 1 3/8” below top of oil pan.  Flex coupling between hot pipes.  Mount for turbo.  This leaves room for radiator hoses, electric fan, alternator mount on pssgr side, downpipe on driver side, etc.  Start by using 2.25” dia hot pipe for each side (this is still as large as the truck manifolds).

Losing the driver headlight is not a big deal for me since I don't need it at the drag strip, only need one headlight.

[mobythevan]

Pics from the weekend. 

First, the 8.8 install so far:

Got the 8.8 prepped by cutting off all those factory brackets and grinding the welds



Then welded the granny's mounts for the lower links/shocks and watts link.



Stock rear removed.



That was the hard parts as far as I'm concerned with the 8.8 install.  I did remove the seats and carpet for the next step which is isntalling the hockey pucks and front lower link mounts.  I'll get more pics when the torque arm and caliper brackets are installed.

Second, the turbo install so far:

Driver side front with wiring removed.



Driver front after cutting the sheet metal to allow for the charge pipe and inlet air filter.  I know some people won't be willing to do this for a turbo install.



Top view, the radiator will move towards the pssgr side a inch for clearance of the upper radiator hose.  I will rewire the front of the car so the harness no longer goes below the turbine along the driver frame rail.



This picture is weird with the angle.  The turbo really sets down even with the radiator support.  There is plenty of room for the air filter.



One last view through the front.