March 15, 2025, 11:37:32 AM

Author Topic: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem  (Read 7260 times)

Offline Kevin Doe

Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« on: January 04, 2011, 09:03:22 AM »
I have been having a problem with my clutch over the last two years, going from not a problem at all, to gradually more of an issue. When I fully depress the clutch, the clutch does not entirely disengage, it will drag causing poor shifting. If at a dead stop, I can depress the clutch and when I put pressure on the shifter to go into first gear, there is a quite noticeable resistance, and the car will slowly start to move forward. Once I get it in gear, I don't notice the car wanting to roll forward that I recall. When I shift, again there is a quite noticeable resistance to go into gear, and it feels like I can feel it banging the driveline, even with the clutch depressed. I figured that it was from the clutch not fully disengaging, but not sure. My pedal get full firm pressure about 1" depressed. I get disengagement about 2" depressed. I probably have ~10" of total travel. I thought maybe I was over-traveling the pressure plate, so I tested to see if I'd have the same issue with the clutch depressed past the disengagement point, but not all the way to the floor. No change.

This seems to be getting progressively worse, could this be a synchro problem?

Let me give some details on my setup.  I did not have this problem at first, so I don't think its a setup problem.

- 2004 GTO T56 transmission (tripple syncyro 1-2, Z06 ratios, etc)
- 2004 GTO LS1.
- MGW shifter for an F-body (swapped to the F-body offset lever to make this possible).
- Original GM clutch slave cylinder.
- Wilwood clutch master cylinder. I will have to check on the bore diameter, but for some reason I want to say 7/8" or 15/16", can't recall which offhand (it was 3+ years ago when I bought it).
- Spec Stage 3+ clutch disc and pressure plate.
- Fidanza aluminum flywheel.
- Motul RBF600 fluid in it, since my clutch reservoir is shared with my brake reservoir. I bleed my brakes and clutch several times ever year, and am 100% positive I don't have any air in my system.
Steamroller

Offline BeatTheTunaUp

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 09:12:10 AM »
I noticed you have a fidanza aluminum flywheel.  My buddy had one in his 11 sec  1st gen eclipse and it warped from to many drag launches.  His car would do the same thing.  He had to let the rev's fall and then throw it in gear to shift.  Just a thought.
93 FD money pit
15 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4
96 Dodge Ram 4X4  Truck I wanted in HS
98 Baja 192 Islander  5.7 vortec On the water

Offline Bigblockquad

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 01:37:09 PM »
I had the same problem as what you've described a couple years back. Turned out to be a leaking slave cylinder. Replaced it with an external bleed type and problem went away.
94 RX7 LS7, Racelogic TC (565hp/505tq)
07 Superformance GT40 Dart alloy 427 (548hp/561tq) 2290 lbs...
06 Lexus IS350
04 Chevy 2500HD Diesel, lifted on 20x35's
95 BMW M3 440ci LS7/ T56

Offline Kevin Doe

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 01:49:57 PM »
Hmmm, I'm not losing any fluid.  So I don't think thats the problem.  What do you guys think about possibly a warped disc or something to that effect?
Steamroller

Offline BeatTheTunaUp

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 02:49:37 PM »
I noticed you have a fidanza aluminum flywheel.  My buddy had one in his 11 sec  1st gen eclipse and it warped from to many drag launches.  His car would do the same thing.  He had to let the rev's fall and then throw it in gear to shift.  Just a thought.

I already said that lol.
93 FD money pit
15 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4
96 Dodge Ram 4X4  Truck I wanted in HS
98 Baja 192 Islander  5.7 vortec On the water

Offline Kevin Doe

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 03:09:58 PM »
I was really referring to the clutch disc, but I suppose it could be the flywheel too.
Steamroller

Offline BeatTheTunaUp

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 03:24:14 PM »
After the problems he had warping his aluminum flywheel, I won't run one.  You car is doing pretty much the same thing his was.  Same fidanza al flywheel too.
93 FD money pit
15 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4
96 Dodge Ram 4X4  Truck I wanted in HS
98 Baja 192 Islander  5.7 vortec On the water

Offline Sabre002

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 03:49:51 PM »
Kevin you are taking this to far. 

Stop the thought process now. 

The answer to your 1st question is no I do not think it could be a synchro.  That would mean you have messed up all of them at the same time.  I would look at the hydraulics of the clutch 1st.  I don't care if you have not lost fluid this sounds like a normal hydraulic problem.  Is the fluid black?  I'm sure it more then likly is.  Do you have the wilwood adjustable master in the car?  If so try adjusting it full out to the top. 
Josh
Manager Business Development, Mazda Motorsports
For info on how to join the Mazda Motorsports Team Support Program Email me.
Jsmit295@mazdausa.com

Offline Speedfab

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 04:40:52 PM »
It isn't a synchro or anything in the transmission itself.  Something is making your clutch drag and/or not fully disengage.  I've seen a whole BUNCH of things do this, to include:

Not enough travel at the slave
Air in the hydrauics causing the above
Lining coming apart/rivets coming out
Broken/bent/warped marcel spring
Broken coil srings in the hub
Clutch disc just plain bent at the hub
Severely warped pressure plate shoe
2 piece flywheel coming apart or friction surface warping really bad

Obviously, do the easy stuff first and power bleed your hydraulics, make sure the master isn't bypassing fluid, make sure the slave isnt leaking, and make sure any adjustable pushrods in the system are where they should be.


unless you own a turbo ls9 rx7 you do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

Offline Kevin Doe

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 09:40:52 AM »
I did a few things last night:

1.  I have adjusted the clutch all the way to where it releases at high in the throw as possible, and no change.  It wasn't as far from the top as I thought, I only adjusted the pedal position maybe 1/2" to get it right to the top.

2.  Bled the system.  I had done it less than 100 miles ago, but I figured why not.

What size master cylinder are you guys using?  What size is the tick master cylinder that everyone raves about?

Is there any way to view the clutch while still in the car with a T56?  Can you look inside the starter hole and see anything, maybe even with a mirror?
Steamroller

Offline Pez

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 10:00:25 AM »
You said that you adjusted the pedal. Did you adjust the pushrod too?
FC/FD plug and play wiring harnesses, LSx swap AC systems, LSx swap power steering lines.

Offline Kevin Doe

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 10:11:24 AM »
You said that you adjusted the pedal. Did you adjust the pushrod too?

Thats what I'm talking about adjusting.  I adjusted the pushrod on the mastercylinder to change the engagement point.  What else is there to adjust.  I guess there is a stop for the highest throw as well, but haven't messed with that.
Steamroller

Offline largeorangefont

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2011, 10:28:52 AM »
It isn't a synchro or anything in the transmission itself.  Something is making your clutch drag and/or not fully disengage.  I've seen a whole BUNCH of things do this, to include:

Not enough travel at the slave
Air in the hydrauics causing the above
Lining coming apart/rivets coming out
Broken/bent/warped marcel spring
Broken coil srings in the hub
Clutch disc just plain bent at the hub
Severely warped pressure plate shoe
2 piece flywheel coming apart or friction surface warping really bad

Obviously, do the easy stuff first and power bleed your hydraulics, make sure the master isn't bypassing fluid, make sure the slave isnt leaking, and make sure any adjustable pushrods in the system are where they should be.

This list is pretty much ALL it could be. I would adjust your clutch pedal stop first to get the most slave travel you can just to verify that is not your problem, and then go from there.

If that checks out, pull the clutch and the problem will probably present itself after inspection of the clutch. I would wager it is something with the clutch disk being warped, or pressure plate. As stated above this is not an internal transmission syncro issue.
Quote from: cool
Sell it to spacevomit.  He'll finish it.

Offline Sabre002

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2011, 10:55:24 AM »
I use a 7/8" master.  the tick one is for a F body only. 
Josh
Manager Business Development, Mazda Motorsports
For info on how to join the Mazda Motorsports Team Support Program Email me.
Jsmit295@mazdausa.com

Offline Speedfab

Re: Possible Clutch/Synchro Problem
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2011, 11:01:59 AM »
Is there any way to view the clutch while still in the car with a T56?  Can you look inside the starter hole and see anything, maybe even with a mirror?



 :cheers:


unless you own a turbo ls9 rx7 you do not know what the fuck you are talking about.