March 14, 2025, 08:12:36 PM

Author Topic: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!  (Read 278727 times)

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1230 on: January 10, 2025, 04:40:11 AM »
My valvetrain is almost exactly the same but I'm running a lighter spring. It's a .660 lift with 430lb open iirc. May give the 1207x a try. Never mind, looks like the 1207x is what I'm already running. Ha

I had the 296 and moved to a 295. Still seem to suck the pan dry. For you it sounds like the pressure valve is opening. Give the copo spring a try.

I try to keep AE closet to target afr but have CL 02 off during fast rpmdot.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 05:05:41 AM by Exidous »
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1231 on: January 10, 2025, 01:43:55 PM »
My valvetrain is almost exactly the same but I'm running a lighter spring. It's a .660 lift with 430lb open iirc. May give the 1207x a try. Never mind, looks like the 1207x is what I'm already running. Ha

I had the 296 and moved to a 295. Still seem to suck the pan dry. For you it sounds like the pressure valve is opening. Give the copo spring a try.

I try to keep AE closet to target afr but have CL 02 off during fast rpmdot.

Yea you're definitely not having valve float then.  I'm sure the stock intake was just choking it off between the longer runners and the smaller throttle body.  With a 105mm tb I'm still seeing some KPA loss at high rpm.

So long as the oil pressure is repeatable I don't mind the pressure values where they're at.  It does sound like it is bypassing, which is probably not a great thing it'll be heating up the oil and aerating it.  I'll have to keep an eye on it when I start doing some longer sessions.  The higher volume pump may not have been the move. 

Someday I'll figure out a genius idea how to package a drysump tank lol.

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1232 on: January 10, 2025, 10:06:40 PM »
You figure out the tank. I have the pan and pump sorted. Ha
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1233 on: February 11, 2025, 03:29:45 AM »
Well I have been having the absolute best time with the car lmao.  Only a couple small issues have popped up, but otherwise it has been incredible.  It is so much damn fun.  It is far and away the most ridiculous thing I've ever driven. 

I have the car fully broken in.  The clutch and trans are over 500 miles, and the ring and pinion is long broken in.  Gave it a fluid flush and it is ready for some hard miles.  First main issue that popped up is the clutch was not fully disengaging.  I bled the clutch extremely well with a pressure bleeder for hours.  It drove great for a couple drives, and but then it refused to go into gear when cold.  I'm talking like while rolling, while stopped, any gear for any reason it might just prevent you from shifting lol.  It was getting air back into it somehow, or the master cylinder seal was bad.  With a 3/4" master size I do also think it was undersized even in perfect conditions, so I swapped it to a 13/16 master and it has been perfect ever since.

Second issue is after driving the car for 500 miles without charging, and after driving it 45 minutes, the car refused to start again and was cranking slow.  The Holley is super sensitive to cranking voltage.  I need to fix this or I'll get stranded somewhere. You can't jump a Holley ECU or you risk bricking it, and my battery can't be fast charged it charges at 3 amps maximum lol.  Anyways, my alternator requires a PWM signal to get more than 13.7 volts out of it.  My battery is not getting sufficiently charged. I can do this from the Holley, I just didn't route a wire for it initially and got lazy thinking it would be fine.

Currently, I have put at least 3 tanks of gas through it. Gas mileage is REALLY bad on E85 hahaha.  I haven't recorded it, but it goes through gas obscenely fast. I started with an ~E50 blend from the dyno, and I'm up to E76 now putting only E85 in it.  The Radium surge tank works perfectly. I have twin fuel pumps to run when the E content is high.  I've also been ripping on it and throwing the car around a bit and the fuel system has not burped once.  I'm down to just over empty on my gas gauge and it hasn't flinched.  It used to cut out punching it in 2nd in a straight line.

With this chilly weather, E85, and the electric water pump the temps are staying so cold.  I'm happy to see the oil temp doesn't get really any higher than 200 while driving normally, even in traffic or a lot of miles.  When I beat on it the temps climb above 210 and the cooler thermostat opens and the temps have been dropping immediately.  I want to get it up in the canyons or on a track soon and see how the cooling does.  I have read concerns about the EWP for high rpm driving, and I want to see how my oil cooler does under heavy load with the parallel mounting and chin spoiler.



I still need to get an alignment, but I got some new tires!  I'm really bummed about it, but my 275/35/18 Maxxis RC-1 slicks were simply too big.  I'd rub front and back all over the place. They're just way too tall.  I also was feeling like the car had really bad traction, and despite having barely any miles on them, they were made in 2019.  I thought maybe they were getting old.

I was a little stressed about it, but I took the gamble on getting some 285/30/18 Yokohama AD09's for my 9.5" wide wheel.  I was worried about potential bulge, but they fit fantastic and the steering sharpness is really great.  With the bumpsteer tweaks I did on the down-time the steering feels dead smooth.  Even with a 285 up front the car isn't tramlining at all.  I have some wheel spacers showing up tomorrow to dial in the fitment  :D

:bacon: :bacon:







Performance wise, I've been a little hot and cold with them literally.  Mostly cold, and then I finally get some heat in them and they blow my mind.  It has been oddly chilly in Socal, so I think when it warms up a bit I'll have better luck.  I'm learning what they need.  Big educational moment, I punched it in third from 65 mph and it did a rolling burnout as long as my foot was in it.  Hauling ass, but getting tossed around a bit too. Not what I was expecting nor wanting to do on the freeway.  It was badass, but way too sketch.  Would do it again in a heartbeat somewhere else hahaha.

I've been able to give some of my buddy's a ride, and each one I'm getting to hoon it a little bit harder.  Most who have ridden in the car have been in a fast car before, let alone basically a race car.  There's a little industrial cul de sac with a 90 degree turn and I was able to do a 1st gear drifted u-turn into frying 2nd gear, huck it through the corner and plant the throttle out to 7500 rpm in 2nd.  That got the tires warm enough they grip sooooo hard. I need a track day to find the limits of this thing in a safe place.

My friend who has been in a few fast cars I took out 3rd quarter yesterday during the game.  We live on a hilly road with some gentle curves and quite a bit of elevation change.  We were bombing up and down the hill while everyone was watching the game, and I was basically power sliding 2nd gear just staying in my lane going around this bend.  Then the tires heat up enough it grips 2nd and it seriously hauls ass.  Before then you gotta be really timid and basically roll into it until it spins and just hold the throttle there or feather it a bit.

Some shots from my friend before our ride.





« Last Edit: February 11, 2025, 04:40:44 AM by MPbdy »

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1234 on: February 11, 2025, 03:31:52 AM »
Oh yea I split my lip putting the car up on ramps at my dad's place to change the fluids :(  The new tires are an inch shorter. Saddddd.  At least it is a cheap FRP lip from Shine I can always get another, or I have a friend in composites who can fix it.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1235 on: February 11, 2025, 03:56:54 AM »
So most of my driving has been break-in miles, but I have done a few fun things, and productive things.

First, I got a Dragy and I couldn't even wait until I had the break-in miles done or my new tires on it to try it out lol.  I really, really wanted to see some 60-130 numbers to back-up the dyno sheet haha.  Well, where I live I just simply can't find a good road to do it, and I'm sketched out about  :police: :police: :police:.  I did give it one shot, and it was far from ideal.  It was very cold so I started in 3rd gear, it was uphill, it was at 1000 feet physical altitude, and I shifted slow because the trans wasn't broken in yet lol.  I know this has a long, long way to go before it proves anything, but for a starting point I'm not upset.  A stock C6Z as best I can find is about an 8.5.  I really want to see the car at a 6.5 or faster.  With this tire size I will need two shifts to hit 130 so it'll never be "competitive."  With a 26" tall drag tire I think I could push a 5.x.  All the really fast C6Z guys are raising the rev limiter super high to hit it in 3rd.



Since I have fully broken in the trans now, I wasted no time turning on my no lift shift.  When you push the clutch it turns on a 5800 rev limiter.  So you can wring this thing out to 7500 rpm, stab the clutch with your foot on the floor, bang gear and drop the clutch out, and you don't even feel the gear change.  It is so addicting.  I'm using it every chance I get lol.  :drive:

Now, onto next topic which is stopping.  From 130 it was sketchy sketchy sketchy slowing down.  I designed a brake kit for this car during covid, and then I blew the engine.  If anyone remembers, I worked with Stoptech back ages ago, maybe 10 years ago I did that group buy.  Well, I got to learn a lot from Stoptech about piston sizes, hydraulic brake balance and wheel torque output balance.  I did a ton of searching around for some OEM calipers I could repurpose which is extremely hard for the FD because the piston sizes are tiny tiny, and you need to upgrade the rear to keep the braking force anywhere near balanced.  The brake bias stock is already too far forward biased. 

The idea clicked to look at a Cayman since it was mid-engine and lightweight I figured they could be a close match.  I think I got what I wanted, and have a package put together that will shift the brake force 3% rearward, and increase the hydraulic volume moved by about 35% combined front and rear.  The Cayman S has a 1" master, and I have the 1" 929 master in my car.  My brake pedal today is extremely short which is nice, but at high speed it does not inspire confidence with how much leg effort you need to put in.  With larger piston sizes the pedal effort will be reduced.  The Cayman has much larger piston volume in the rear than the FD, but the rotor is 1 inch smaller diameter keeping the torque outputs closely balanced.

I'm so excited for these.  Girodisc is cutting me some custom rotor hats right now to adapt their 350x34 and 325x24 Cayman S rotors onto my car.  This has been a long project with some high dollar gambling, a lot of research, and some unique problem solving lol.  I think the payoff will be huge.  It did not turn out to be a budget option in the slightest.  I wish I had just bought the 4 wheel brake kit from Stoptech during the group buy but I was broke back then lmao.








Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1236 on: February 11, 2025, 04:27:54 AM »
The other day I finally logged a cold start and worked on slow speed drivability and was lucky enough to improve it a ton.  It is all tweaking in the Accel Enrichment, fuel table, and spark table.  The idle has always fortunately been rock solid and never has tried to stall a single time.  It has worked perfectly from the very first adjustment and I am shocked.  The low speed driving and taking off from a stop has been horrible.  Driving after the cold start was almost impossible for the first ~60 seconds.  I fixed that luckily by adjusting the start-up enrichment.

For the take-off issues and low speed bucking I tried adding timing in a region to prevent a bog as I would bring the revs up to 1500, it would drop to 600, and then spike back to 2000 and oscillate like that all while you're trying to let the clutch out and take off.  I learned that this engine and camshaft really wants very little timing in light load.  I took 20 degrees out in some areas, and added some fuel, and it smoothed out about 85% and has made it easy to take-off from a stop.  The car is perfectly livable like this, but parking lots are still extremely tough to navigate.  The car really doesn't want to be going any less than 15 mph, so you're working the clutch a ton.  I think some of that is just a huge engine in a little car problem.

So, logically, after talking about how scary fast it is lol the other effort going on right now is how to make it even faster  :D

This one I'm really optimistic about.  I posted in Kinger's thread saying I might want to utilize some traction control since I have the Holley in my car.  If it was going to be $2500 like I had heard, I would have to weigh the option against swapping ECU's to something more modern.  Luckily, I found a couple awesome things - I found a $1000 unit open box new for $480 shipped from a guy who swapped ECU's before using it.  I also learned that I can use my transmission 17 pulse per rev VSS sensor for the TCS input.  Also, Davis Technologies only utilizes a driveshaft speed sensor and does not require a front wheel speed sensor input.  So, I will be into this very affordably, and will have a highly desirable TCS box for a cheap enough price I can sell if it doesn't work.



It is only a couple inches long, and a few wires to hook-up.  I will just need to hook an activation switch, 12V power and a ground to it, and splice into my VSS input already going into the Holley. 

If I wind up wanting more resolution on the reluctor wheel, there's a 40 tooth reluctor I could swap in place of the 17 tooth.

This thing works by monitoring driveshaft acceleration rate and if it goes above a threshold it will pull timing.  It can update timing in realtime like 1000 times a second and can pull up to 25 degrees.  Really curious to see how it does.  It will have a few knobs to turn to dial in the sensitivity and how much authority it has.  In reality, I don't think it needs much intervention. It just needs something to stop it from completely lighting up the tire, and stopping slips that could turn into big powerslides leaving corners.  If it is really incredible maybe it would allow me to launch in first gear.  We'll see about that one.

And now lastly, I think lol, I got a Nardi steering wheel coming for it.  My factory wheel is hitting my Holley screen and scratching it up.  It was the final push I needed to pull the trigger on something I've wanted for a long time.  I love my Tillet seat but it is not my preferred seating position. It is very laid back and I want the wheel brought closer to me.  This is also smaller diameter and will make the steering feel faster.  I do also want to look at my seat mount and see if I can tilt it forward without making the bottom feel awkward.  It just has a lot of recline molded into it.





So it has been a super busy and eventful time with the car.  Having a ton of fun with it again.  Every single drive is an extreme test of willpower and patience.  I cannot wait to get some video in a place where I can open it up and share it with everyone.

Offline Venom13132

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Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1237 on: February 11, 2025, 07:19:01 AM »
I am interested in that brake upgrade.  Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers.   Who made the brackets?  or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets?   What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.
1995 RX-7 Voodoo Blue- LS3, TR6060: Full Feed wide body, 57DR 18's, K-Sport coil-overs, 99 spec\ tails and Carbon Fiber spoiler, SpeedHut Gauges, Aeromotive fuel system, TwinZ Diffuser, Texas Speed LS3 Stage 2 v2 Cam Kit, Comp Cam's Rockers, McLeod Racing 6405507M RXT Street Twin Clutch kit, ATI-1918628 - Super Damper/balancer, Lot's of other stuff.
2010 Cadillac Escalade: Daily Driver and pulls my 18' car hauler

Offline shainiac

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1238 on: February 11, 2025, 09:25:38 AM »
Nice score on the Davis box. My friend has a nationally-competitive no-prep drag car and has the Davis VPS and all the bells and whistles. His car is obviously extremely focused, but it works great for him. The VPS has the 6-axis accelerometer and gyro and can pull power for yaw and all sorts of stuff.  But IIRC, he's still using the driveshaft curve as his main tuning method for track stuff. It's a ~1500whp+ Malibu running low 5s/high 4s in the 1/8th on unprepped surfaces with a 28x10.5 bias ply lol.
I think being an auto with much longer 1st gear makes it easier to reign in power with timing alone, though.

I'm using MaxxECU's TC on my car, making ~low 600s whp. With the short DCT gearing and 18" wheels, I'm usually not able to reign in wheel spin with timing alone in 1st/2nd gear and have to rely on random spark cut. That could be a me-problem, but I'm already pulling as much boost out as I can in those gears (2psi wastegate pressure, probably 500whp), and partially closing throttle with the DBW. But my tires are not exactly fresh and the weather in New England ain't exactly Socal lol.

That brake project looks great. I'm currently trying to design an OEM caliper/rotor upgrade for my FC and had the same issue with everything having too large of piston area. What're the Porsche piston sizes? I'm surprised they have 34mm rotors, that's pretty thick for a smallish OD factory rotor.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline kinger

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1239 on: February 11, 2025, 10:02:42 AM »
So glad you are enjoying the car again!  Making the FD great again is my goal with my project.  I also was extremely annoyed with under 15 mph parking lot clutch work and hence my 8HP swap, hoping it can handle slow speeds when I am creeping around a parking lot to me that is important, I hate race car things on my street car yet I want race car speed and performance on the street LOL

For that price the definitely worth to play with the davis now.  This makes me excited for my car!
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1240 on: February 11, 2025, 01:19:04 PM »
I am interested in that brake upgrade.  Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers.   Who made the brackets?  or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets?   What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.

I do have all of it yea, but I want to make sure that the kit works out performance wise before I send anyone else down this path.  I haven't cut brackets yet, still in plastic.  Girodisc is making me rotor hats, but you could have a shop do it for much less money.  The rotor rings themselves are $850 front and $750 rear - so I bet you can imagine a set with custom hats from them is no less than double that.  Overall this worked out to be way way more money than expected, but it became more of a passion project and sunk cost fallacy lol.  The calipers were about $1000 for the set of four, and they all seem to be in great shape.  Once the rotors arrive I'll do a final fit check and tweaks to the bracket dimensions and get them cut in metal, and then will need to sort out a custom brake line - but it is nearly there.

It also eliminates the e-brake. I'm hopeful there will be a way to add an auxiliary parking brake caliper, but still TBD. 

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1241 on: February 11, 2025, 01:38:50 PM »
Nice score on the Davis box. My friend has a nationally-competitive no-prep drag car and has the Davis VPS and all the bells and whistles. His car is obviously extremely focused, but it works great for him. The VPS has the 6-axis accelerometer and gyro and can pull power for yaw and all sorts of stuff.  But IIRC, he's still using the driveshaft curve as his main tuning method for track stuff. It's a ~1500whp+ Malibu running low 5s/high 4s in the 1/8th on unprepped surfaces with a 28x10.5 bias ply lol.
I think being an auto with much longer 1st gear makes it easier to reign in power with timing alone, though.

I'm using MaxxECU's TC on my car, making ~low 600s whp. With the short DCT gearing and 18" wheels, I'm usually not able to reign in wheel spin with timing alone in 1st/2nd gear and have to rely on random spark cut. That could be a me-problem, but I'm already pulling as much boost out as I can in those gears (2psi wastegate pressure, probably 500whp), and partially closing throttle with the DBW. But my tires are not exactly fresh and the weather in New England ain't exactly Socal lol.

That brake project looks great. I'm currently trying to design an OEM caliper/rotor upgrade for my FC and had the same issue with everything having too large of piston area. What're the Porsche piston sizes? I'm surprised they have 34mm rotors, that's pretty thick for a smallish OD factory rotor.

Yea the Davis TC systems are incredible!  I watch a lot of noprep racing on youtube and know a couple guys that do it.  It is on my bucket list of drag racing adventures I want to try with my dad.  It will require us getting another car though, and we just don't have space for it.  We kick around the idea of downsizing our bracket racing operation, and if that happens I could see getting a noprep grudge car just to have fun with.  To be competitive you really gotta be prepared to throw some money at it though.

This is their most basic TC-3, but can be upgraded to do self learning and also have cylinder cut.  As is, it will only retard timing.

In my studying, I read that turbo cars can be tricky to control with just timing alone because at some point retarding the timing just builds more heat, which makes more boost and it becomes an unwinnable situation.  I'm not sure if it'll be enough to allow me to launch in first, but I'm hopeful that it'll control things from basically like...autoX speeds and higher in 2nd gear lol.  I'll add a toggle switch to my digital dash for when you want to fry some tires.  I do wish I could control the TC settings within my digital dash, but it is only accessible via a laptop or their own remote display for tuning.

The TC-3 is only looking at driveshaft speed and comparing acceleration rate to an allowable limit.  The TC-3 is good enough to get you down a road, but the high end stuff is using the "perfect pass" method where you actually provide a driveshaft curve from transbrake release that the car should follow.  Not something that works outside of a standing start in a controlled environment, but it is a truly incredible system what they're able to do with these no-prep machines.

I've seen your work on the mustang shocks!! I'm super interested in your work.  Racingbrake website is a fantastic reference.

The calipers I'm using are 38/38 mm pistons front and 28/30 rear.  The porsche rotors stock are an inch smaller front and rear. Girodisc offers larger rotors and a caliper spacer for those guys.  350x34 and 325x24 are physically the largest rotors that will fit in the caliper body without hitting. It gets super close.

https://racingbrake.com/cayman-boxster-986-987-981-982-718/

Here are my bias calculations.  I wasn't supposed to share this spreadsheet back in the day from Stoptech  :P I am still using the OEM prop valve and I'm hopeful that it will work with this setup as well, but I may need to add-in an adjustable proportioning valve.


Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1242 on: February 11, 2025, 01:56:12 PM »
So glad you are enjoying the car again!  Making the FD great again is my goal with my project.  I also was extremely annoyed with under 15 mph parking lot clutch work and hence my 8HP swap, hoping it can handle slow speeds when I am creeping around a parking lot to me that is important, I hate race car things on my street car yet I want race car speed and performance on the street LOL

For that price the definitely worth to play with the davis now.  This makes me excited for my car!

Thanks man! You should definitely be excited. It is a whole different level of insanity. I also am really happy with the Tilton, not that you care anymore  ;)  I honestly can't imagine this thing with any more power.  Maybe the traction control will tame it and then I start looking into that 800whp package next hahaha

Offline Esser

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1243 on: February 11, 2025, 05:23:54 PM »
Awesome update!!

Curious to see how well the traction control can be dialed in.

I think it will start to feel slow after like 2,000 miles hahaha then you can get the next recipe ready!

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #1244 on: February 11, 2025, 05:35:56 PM »
Awesome update!!

Curious to see how well the traction control can be dialed in.

I think it will start to feel slow after like 2,000 miles hahaha then you can get the next recipe ready!

I'm thinking as soon as it warms up, engine making a bit less power from higher DA and the tires are grippy it'll feel slow again hahaha.  How much power do you have dialed in when you are running around in the canyons?

If the traction control works out maybe I actually will be able to shove the solid roller engine in this thing someday and go for that 200mph standing mile run :D  I also planned to sell my old Magnum, but maybe I will accidentally send it off for face plating instead hahaha.  Short term I want to get some track days and autox events done with this combo I think there's plenty of meat on the bone to enjoy it like this for a while.  Not to mention if I track it and start catching the aero bug...