403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!

[MPbdy]

Great thing about the internet is when you document your stupidity it’s there forever lol. The quick and dirty jumper cable setup to an external battery wasn’t stable enough voltage to keep the Holley happy during cranking. Hooked it up properly today with some actual battery cables and it fired again first crank.

Weird thing is the battery was fully charged, and the starter spun it fast. I’ve read a lot that the Holley is super sensitive to voltage so I guess it’s true lol.

It was worth the effort to run it with a timing pointer though it was retarding 1 degree per every ~2000 rpm. By 4500 rpm it had retarded from 20.25 to 18 degrees. Had to trial and error an inductive delay. Now it is steady from idle up to 5000+ rpm.

I did find that I have a 2 amp draw somewhere keyed off. Haven’t been able to find it yet. That sucks.

The Holley is still only reporting 8 volts when the battery is solid 12.5+. I think I’m going to have to send it back to Holley for them to test it unfortunately. Making me want to think about switching off the Holley tbh but that’s an expensive leap to make.

It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.

https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp

[Exidous]

Sweet! $500 plus two cheap oem TB’s is going to be the same price as an aftermarket larger DBW unit lol. I just watched a video recently about printing a turbo manifold for cheap on craftcloud it’s definitely on my mind.

Two 3" filters is also easier to package than one 4" and flows more. I don't have a laid back radiator setup so trying to get creative.

[MPbdy]

Sweet! $500 plus two cheap oem TB’s is going to be the same price as an aftermarket larger DBW unit lol. I just watched a video recently about printing a turbo manifold for cheap on craftcloud it’s definitely on my mind.

Two 3" filters is also easier to package than one 4" and flows more. I don't have a laid back radiator setup so trying to get creative.

Yea ain’t that the truth! Can you duct cold air from the bumper?

Are you planning to operate the TB’s progressive or symmetrical opening? Running off one TB at low TPS could give some nice tip in and low speed performance.

[Exidous]

Ya, I can get it down to the bus.per in front of the radiator. Thinking something like a naca duct.

Sequentially is the intent. The ECU will want to run them in parallel if I tell it there are two throttle bodies. If I set the second to an actuator I can custom table the pwm duty. 0% is roughly 10% open. 30% is about 100%. Easy enough to scale.

I don't think I'll need to pull it closed to 0%. The main can go to 0% to control idle. I need 11% now to idle with a 90mm. A 82mm should need more than 10 so I figure resti g on the actuator at 10 and 1-5% on the main for control. Worst case I can go negative pwm(swapped on the h-bridges) on the actuator.

[kinger]

It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.

https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp

 

Wow!  That sounds amazing! 

[MPbdy]

It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.

https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp

 

Wow!  That sounds amazing! 

Thanks dude You'll get your clutch review someday lol!

Ya, I can get it down to the bus.per in front of the radiator. Thinking something like a naca duct.

Sequentially is the intent. The ECU will want to run them in parallel if I tell it there are two throttle bodies. If I set the second to an actuator I can custom table the pwm duty. 0% is roughly 10% open. 30% is about 100%. Easy enough to scale.

I don't think I'll need to pull it closed to 0%. The main can go to 0% to control idle. I need 11% now to idle with a 90mm. A 82mm should need more than 10 so I figure resti g on the actuator at 10 and 1-5% on the main for control. Worst case I can go negative pwm(swapped on the h-bridges) on the actuator.

Sounds like you've got an interesting challenge ahead!  It'll be tricky to figure that switchover point of when to start opening the second TB and how quickly it needs to move.  The change in area won't be linear when opening the blade.  Maybe with DBW you can make the opening rate gradual enough that having them open in parallel will work fine.

[Exidous]

Just an estimate but I'd guess around 70% on the primary I'll start to open the secondary. With the blade on the secondary already cracked at 10% I don't think it'll be too bad to get smooth. My only concern using it as an actuator is the zero control loop. Will vacuum or high airflow want to change the blade position. If that's the case, I may have to run it as a throttle body. MaxxECU is pretty good about taking suggestions. They may add a different target table for each output.

However, Maxx does have the ability to make your own pid loop. Maybe that's an option.

[MPbdy]

Rough day working on the car yesterday.  I bought a Holley HP to replace my Terminator X fearing I fried the ECU with my short circuit issue.  No matter what I tried the Terminator X would display ~8.5V on a fully charged 12.8V battery.

Got a base tune built and installed the HP. 12.5V displayed as expected.  Now I have RPM sync/dropout issues.  Hits a hard ignition cut at 4000 rpm and shoots ducks.  Can't get ahead with this thing!  Its the same sensors, harnesses all of it...really makes no sense. 

I also spent at least an hour pulling fuses trying to find the 2A draw I have with the key off and still no luck.  This one has me really scratching my head. 

One nice thing, I was able to quiet down the howling IAC valve by using the air bypass adjustment on the Holley 105 throttle body - made a world of difference.  Now just need to dampen the plenum somehow that doesn't look like ass.  A ratchet strap around the plenum comes to mind lol, but it really needs like an internal pillar or something.

Last minor victory, I could swap the 6AN fitting out to a GM fitting in my Turn One pump and re-use my old power steering line. Cross one thing off the list.  This is still the OEM GTO power steering line mated to the Mazda rack banjo.

[digitalsolo]

Electrical problems suck.

[paul_3rdgen]

I know this might be a long shot but I had an issue with my race logic, it reset itself and was in 4 cylinder mode causing it to do what you’re describing.   Worth looking at some settings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kinger]

What’s been done on the cam and crank sensors?  Original?  Tested OK? OEM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MPbdy]

What’s been done on the cam and crank sensors?  Original?  Tested OK? OEM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OEM as far as I know they came with the engine that was running when it came out of the car lol.  It also reved fine with the Termi X, but had other issues lol. I ordered a cam sensor now too just in case.

I've been able to dig into the Holley HP system log.  It took a while to get my bearings it is a ton of data. One perk of the better ECU is that it can do internal logging at 100hz with more diagnostic capability. It is like an oscilloscope.

I've found that every time the RPM drops out the cam sensor is seeing a false extra pulse.  Should be 4 pulses - gets 1 2 3 4 5 then rpm error/sync.  At least I'm not flying completely blind.

It's likely going to be a couple weeks before I can get back to it unfortunately, but I can use a break.

[Exidous]

The signal is dropping out mid tooth. However, It seems odd the trigger patterns are not scaling with RPM. Maybe it's just how Holley displays it to make it easier.

Side note, having to get a "better" ecu to get 100Hz logging just makes me dislike Holley even more. You need to get over to a MaxxECU or Haltech asap. I bet your trigger issues disappear. haha MaxxECU does well over 1khz if you want. Even on the $700 version. Only the IO change between models.

[kinger]

I’m guessing he has a ton of money in the Holley set up now, hard to start completely over. 

I’m definitely using a MaxxECU for my next standalone project though, after comparing a lot of the features it seems to be the best of everything. 

I don’t know if we want to judge performance based on YouTuber’s, but a lot of Youtubers struggle with Holley and Cam/crank sync issues.

I also noticed the Haltech struggles on the Evo platform and companies make a reluctor wheel to replace the factory two tooth with like a 12 tooth or something. 

So I don’t think it’s just connected to the Holley. 

It looks absolutely frustrating and maddening to me, good luck with it. A break is probably smart at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MPbdy]

Thanks guys.  I did spend a long time staring at the MaxxECU setup lol.  I feel there has to be something simple with this issue though.  First one was my fault with the short.  I only have a half day into working with the HP, I just didn't expect more and different problems lol.  Not when the Termi X reved clean.

I'm not a huge fan of the Terminator X but it delivered what was promised.  When I bought it the kit with harness and O2 sensor was sub $900.  You can barely get a harness for that it feels like.  It is a super cheap and cheerful package, but I couldn't afford better at the time.  As finicky as the OEM ecu's were especially when flashing, you do get a lot of robustness with the electronics lol. 

The cam sensor is only 0 or 1.  The crank position is a 0 to 5000 point sawtooth over two crank revolutions.  When it loses RPM signal you can see it starts back at zero after only one revolution.  I believe it is effectively like the timing jumping 180 out until it finds itself again.  It completely loses ignition like a hard rev limiter on all cylinders.

I agree the Holley stuff is starting to show its age.  I think the dominator/HP systems have been out 10+ years now?  I was able to snag a used ECU for $1000.  If the harness and everything didn't work I'd have found another Termi X or jumped ship to another platform.  I'm just happy it has the feature at all its the only way I can see it is a cam sensor issue and not crank sensor.  I would've never guessed.  I purposefully used an OEM cam gear because I've had cam sensor issues before with an aftermarket sprocket.