March 14, 2025, 07:52:02 PM

Author Topic: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!  (Read 278714 times)

Offline paul_3rdgen

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #825 on: May 31, 2020, 09:53:27 AM »
Question, what did you change?  I know you changed your exhaust but what else?  My Ls2 put out 505/450 at the wheels, I can see the difference in torque from your displacement.  I always like to compare combos, good way to learn what works and what doesn’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #826 on: May 31, 2020, 12:21:29 PM »
The big changes recently are the headers and the RPS carbon clutch. The clutch hits like a mofo...it literally feels like I went up 1 or 2 numbers on the rear gear on the hit, and then it pulls normal. That hit combined with fresh slicks is no joke.

Years ago I put a “rod mod” ls3 intake on but never dynod it. I have the rods but no intake porting.

Small changes recently include a more straight shot intake and larger diameter vs the cobbled together bits I had before, and longer bigger diameter pushrods. I’ve got the stock ls7 lifters preloaded down nearly to the bottom of the travel making them essentially a short travel lifter (so long as you don’t float the valves). I have big piston to valve clearance so I’m not worried about it. Would not do that with stock flat top pistons.

I don’t believe the big ign1a smart coils are worth power necessarily, but I gapped TR6IX plugs up to .060 and the engine idles and runs smoother than it ever has.

Also unsure if the pro axle CV’s are any more efficient than the Ford tripods. I have to imagine there’s a small gain there.

I was on a dynojet before and a dynapak now, but he said stock c6z’s dyno 460whp and with intake/headers/tune they pick up ~40whp...so bolt on ls7 numbers out of a 402 with stock heads is pretty sweet. Also very comparable to numbers I see on dynojets for a c6z, so I figure I’ve gotta be within 5hp of what it’d read on a dynojet.

The weird double hump power peak was an intake harmonic that would not tune out. It’s odd because no matter what timing or fuel went in it would not smooth out. You don’t feel or hear it, but I’ve seen it on my datalog before I took the car in. Weird stuff.

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #827 on: May 31, 2020, 10:56:01 PM »
It's also odd how hard the torque nose dives after 5500. I'm curious if it's a valvetrain instability or the intake/head port.

Still looks like a blast to drive though.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #828 on: June 01, 2020, 12:25:42 AM »
I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.

The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.

The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.

I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.

Offline kinger

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #829 on: June 01, 2020, 10:37:30 AM »
That's amazing power!  I bet its a blast to drive!  I think you should just sell me the LS7 and enjoy this one  :D
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline largeorangefont

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #830 on: June 01, 2020, 12:23:06 PM »
I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.

The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.

The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.

I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.


Drive it a little more until the tires start to fall of a bit then report back :)

I'm not saying the LS7 is a bad idea, but you are gonna need more tire with another 50-75 wtq. You are in Goldilocks land right now.
Quote from: cool
Sell it to spacevomit.  He'll finish it.

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #831 on: June 01, 2020, 12:47:27 PM »
What LOF is trying to say, "MOAR POWA"!
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #832 on: June 01, 2020, 01:46:40 PM »
That's amazing power!  I bet its a blast to drive!  I think you should just sell me the LS7 and enjoy this one  :D

Lol!  I'll run it on the engine dyno when its done just to tease you.  I have a crazy huge CID 4.5 intake and a 2000 cfm throttle body that I picked up for it too that I want to run and expect it to maybe even knock on the door of 800 unless it winds up being too big.  The CID 4.5 might be better off on a 440 or 454.  It might want more RPM than I'm willing to run with the SBE, but I'm not against a hail mary pull to 8000 if it is making steam. 

I've always kept in the back of my mind that it'll likely wind up in one of our drag cars at some point in the future, or if I ever find a roller chassis that I want to play around with.  The LS7 would run 8's in a light weight drag chassis.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #833 on: June 01, 2020, 02:00:01 PM »
I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.

The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.

The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.

I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.


Drive it a little more until the tires start to fall of a bit then report back :)

I'm not saying the LS7 is a bad idea, but you are gonna need more tire with another 50-75 wtq. You are in Goldilocks land right now.

Haha my 255's were still hookin after 2 years!  These fresh ones are definitely spoiling me right now though lol.  I've never expected drag car like traction I'm very accepting of black tracking 2nd and hooking 3rd.  I do not expect the LS7 to hook first gear without a drag tire.

I really have been thinking that the ls7 would be too outrageous and make the car into effectively a straight line only machine effectively ruining it.  I've driven the car on street tires where it would roll into wheel spin in third on the highway and you couldn't be confident making a lane change under power let alone powering out of any corner even in 3rd or 4th.  It is comical, but it really isn't fun and I don't care how good a driver you are that will catch up with you eventually.  Sketch on that level becomes unpredictable and there's been a few times it does stupid shit when I'm just trying to drive normal. 

The LS7 will definitely be wild, but I don't think it'll be uncontrollable.  Plus I'm putting a lot of power to the ground with 3.90's.  I could always step down to a 3.73 or 3.55 with the ls7 if I had to, but where's the fun in that  :P

What LOF is trying to say, "MOAR POWA"!

Always!! Haha.

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #834 on: June 01, 2020, 02:43:36 PM »
Are you planning no hood or a hole for the CID intake? You could just go with a Mamo ported MSD intake to keep it a little more tame and be able to close the hood.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline paul_3rdgen

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #835 on: June 01, 2020, 02:59:05 PM »
I'm loving this because I've been debating on stroking my LS2 to solve my reluctor wheel issue, and the fact that I could make more power makes it more appealing.  I can keep my top end as is.
93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #836 on: June 01, 2020, 03:02:43 PM »
Oh the CID is purely for dyno fun and when it goes into a drag chassis someday...or if my dad builds a 427/440 for one of his cars.  There was a deal that was too good to pass up.  Someone went too big on their induction for a motor they wanted to keep at 7000 and below.  It would be fun to dick around with at the drag strip but I think I'd have a hard time flying under the radar with that one.  They already know I need a roll bar lol.

Check out this beast.  If I remember next time I'm at my dad's I'll snag some better pictures. The TB is a work of art.





I've got a sniper low profile sheet metal intake to try for the LS7.  Will give me the 8000 rpm powerband without building too much midrange torque.  There's a guy with a 388 destroked LS7 that has dynod something like 680whp and run 138 mph in the quarter with a heavy stick shift Fbody.

The Mamo MSD is definitely the all around killer for the LS7.  You're at $2200 or something ludicrous for a plastic intake though after the porting, and it barely fits in the car.

If the CID runs really good I may do something stupid and put a hole in a fiberglass hood, but for standing mile I do have to keep aero in mind too. 

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #837 on: June 01, 2020, 03:28:12 PM »
I'm loving this because I've been debating on stroking my LS2 to solve my reluctor wheel issue, and the fact that I could make more power makes it more appealing.  I can keep my top end as is.

Short vs long stroke is a very interesting comparison.  4" stroke vs 3.622" is basically like spinning 10% higher RPM all the time.  Expect to pull the peak power down by 400-500 rpm or more, and fall off sooner due to airflow restriction and port tuning.  Without a big cam it can be hard to make them rev happy.  A 4" bore also makes it tough to get good airflow due to valve shrouding unless you stick with cathedral port heads, but then you pretty much need to step up to a 235-245cc intake port minimum to have enough airflow for the displacement.  For the cam to behave similarly as what you have in the car now you can expect to add about 4-6* duration to the intake, and retard the cam timing a bit.  If you keep the same cam it will behave like a milder cam for peak power location and driving around.

It depends what you're looking for.  If you want an engine that will beg you to wring it out to 7200 rpm every shift a 402 possibly isn't your best route.  My second little horsepower bump comes in at 6250 rpm which I'm very happy with.  There's a thread on ls1tech that documents dozens of 402-408 builds and you'll see most are HP peaking at 5500-6000 and make less horsepower than your LS2 does.  We've learned a thing or two since 2007, but this is a great reference for you to compare against your LS2.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/816128-408-results-part-ii.html

That said, HPR is dominating the road race world by building induction limited 468 motors that make "crap" peak power compared to their potential, but make so much damn midrange power that they pull on literally everything else on the track.  These are 900 horsepower capable engines that are  induction limited to ~6000 rpm - but live forever on track, use big maintenance free hydraulic roller cams, and out accelerate everything.  It isn't a traditional sports car power delivery, but if you're motoring past exotics tractoring around at 5500 rpm do you really care?

A 427 or 440 can definitely be the high reving screamer engine for you though if you want to make big power - so maybe think about sleeving your block.  The 4.125" bore is a game changer, and even with a relatively small cam you can make them rev out to 7200 and make huge power.  The ls2 block is RED's preferred block for doing darton sleeves - best strength in the block and performance is the best with the bay to bay breathing.  Exidous is building a darton sleeved motor right now.  My build is starting with an LS7 block because I found a SBE for cheap.

Now, when people trash talk stroked LS2's based on dyno numbers there's a factor to it that people don't understand.  There are intangibles to having the larger engine that you just don't see on a dyno.  It is more powerful everywhere, all the time.  Part throttle power and driveability is better and stronger.  Throttle response is stronger.  They hit harder.  Bigger cams drive easier.  Average power is going to be WAY better as well.  Managing the torque in the midrange can be tough with such a light car, but with your widebody and everything else I have no doubt you could handle as much power as you can throw at it.

You're making fantastic horsepower with the LS2 already and honestly if you keep your top end and you build it into a 402 I wouldn't put the expectation to gain toooo much peak power unless you really get after the camshaft.  What you would gain is at least 40-50 ft lb at the tire and the car would be a freaking animal.  If built right it can be very durable - I'm at about 22,000 miles and showing no signs of wearing out - and I beat the crap out of it.

Offline Exidous

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #838 on: June 01, 2020, 03:41:50 PM »
Some good info right thar.

I'm still rocking the stock LS7 crank and rods. The stock pistons will almost certainly be swapped out for forged 4032 pieces to allow a more crap fuel tolerant engine. If that does happen I'll step up to a 4.155" bore and unshroud the exhaust valve a tad. Otherwise it is a tame build but it's all on hold until I get back from my deployment(if I even go). Supposed to be there in under two weeks but still too many unanswered question. If it does happen the car will be sitting until mid winter. :-/ Your car may be LS7 and on the road before mine! Ha

Does Tony really charge $2100 all in for a plastic intake? I think my FAST102 was about $1300 ported from him.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 03:47:47 PM by Exidous »
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline MPbdy

Re: 403 LS2 FD - LS7 Build for 2020!
« Reply #839 on: June 01, 2020, 04:10:13 PM »
Some good info right thar.

I'm still rocking the stock LS7 crank and rods. The stock pistons will almost certainly be swapped out for forged 4032 pieces to allow a more crap fuel tolerant engine. If that does happen I'll step up to a 4.155" bore and unshroud the exhaust valve a tad. Otherwise it is a tame build but it's all on hold until I get back from my deployment(if I even go). Supposed to be there in under two weeks but still too many unanswered question. If it does happen the car will be sitting until mid winter. :-/ Your car may be LS7 and on the road before mine! Ha

Does Tony really charge $2100 all in for a plastic intake? I think my FAST102 was about $1300 ported from him.

Stock crank and rods for me too, and Mahle low expansion alloy forged pistons.  I have the same alloy in my diamond pistons right now and they're great.  They have some slap when first firing up but they quiet down very quickly.

Yeah I've seen the invoices on corvette forum from Tony..  The intake is $1000, and then porting he's getting like 650 or 750, and then the stealth mod is another 3-400.  And he sells them like candy.

It is easy to be mad at Tony's prices, but gotta give the guy props he is a serious hype man and marketing expert.

Some of that unshrouding you can do in the cylinder head too you can open the chamber wall up around the exhaust port.  Bigger bore is always better though - if you're honing for new pistons you might as well go bigger.

Good luck whichever way your deployment goes.  I'll take it as a challenge to get the engine done if you do haha.