March 18, 2025, 05:54:15 AM

Author Topic: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread  (Read 43091 times)

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #150 on: February 05, 2024, 01:59:26 PM »
I always look forward to your posts. 

Congrats on the progress.   I think I'd have jumped higher when it popped in the video, haha.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2024, 08:16:09 AM »
Continuing to tinker in the evenings. I figured out fuel pressure control - the output was inverted from the Link so when I was trying to send 75% duty cycle to shut the pump off, it was actually sending 25% duty cycle which was about 30% speed. I need to hook up my mechanical fuel pressure gauge to verify the scaling I have on the stock fuel pressure sensor, for all of these stock sensors there's not a ton of info out there on scaling so I've had to make some assumptions. With this engine being a returnless style system, I have to get pressure control right in the ECU. I've seen people try to convert the RX-8 to return-style, but that usually breaks the in-tank venturi system that transfers fuel over the hump in the tank. Most people end up with the stock fuel pump going to a surge tank and I want to avoid that if I can.

With fuel pressure working, I tried for another startup but had no luck. Logs indicated fuel and spark but it didn't even pretend like it wanted to start. So last night I pulled both sets of fuel rails. The fuel that came out of the port rails was yellow and gross, no doubt it went bad a long time ago and even if it was injecting, there's no way it'd run on that. And again, returnless system so it's not going to cycle fresh gas through the system. I also wouldn't be surprised if the injectors were clogged. I know they click when I activate them, but I don't know if they squirt. I built an injector test/cleaning bench last year so I could probably test them, but since the whole point is to eventually ditch this set and buy some 80lb boys, I don't know if it's worth wasting a night or two on cleaning injectors that will never run in the car anyway. So now the question is do I go with the TRE cheapies for $210 or Injector Dynamics for $768?

I also wanted to pull a DI injector so I can figure out plugging those up. I stumbled on a couple of different solutions for deleting the DI injectors. When Papadakis Racing did their 1000hp B58 Supra, they made press-fit slugs they hammered in place. I've also found other bolt-in options that are made from aluminum and use a factory-style teflon seal.

These are for a Coyote, but the injector dimensions are the same:



Well I have a lathe and the teflon seals are cheap, so I took all of the necessary measurements off of the injector to duplicate its shape. I already have some 6061 aluminum stock so I should be able to whip something up.







Can you spot the coolant temperature sensor? It's another one I want to calibrate, but it might even require pulling that coolant pass-through tube. And I'm worried that if I break the factory seal, there's no chance of me being able to snug it back up once the engine is running.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #152 on: February 08, 2024, 10:06:32 AM »
+50 cool points for making your own injector deletes.  :D
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #153 on: February 08, 2024, 10:18:16 AM »
I just ordered the Teflon seals and the seal compression tool since the delete plugs still need the seals, that was over $100  :poke:

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #154 on: February 09, 2024, 08:25:44 AM »
Well I'm a big dummy and I've been using my actual fuel pump for all of this testing, a DW300C. It was fine up until I put it in an old gas can with no filter or sock and it sucked up some debris and died. I pried open the cap and got the debris out, but after reassembly it's only making about 20psi so I think it's hurt  :( This is eating into my injector funds.



On the plus side, even with only 20psi of fuel pressure, modelled fuel mode on the Link accommodates and ups the pulsewidth so the engine fired on its own!



Sounds like a ghost cam tune  :D

I only ran it for a few seconds because...you know...no coolant. Speaking of coolant, the eBay turbo coolant line showed up so I can finish up that piping. I keep going back and forth on whether or not I should fully plumb the coolant system on the engine stand so I can run it up to temperature, and the more I think about it, the ability to test and figure out idle, VVT, wastegate control, oil pressure control, and more while having full access to the engine sounds really appealing.

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #155 on: February 12, 2024, 08:56:56 AM »
Back in the garage. The first task was some welding helmet upgrades. I have decent lighting around my workbench but this thing is a game changer.



I went ahead and redid the driver's side turbo coolant return line, this one I was able to keep hard-piped as it connects at the back of the head with rubber tubing so it can naturally flex.





I started working on wastegate mounts. I got the bolt pattern off of the compressor housing and made up a blank bracket out of 1/8" material. The passenger side will actually tuck up between the turbo and engine block, which is fortunate as that side is mega crowded and I didn't do that on purpose. The driver's side goes on the outside of the turbo, which is exactly where the steering shaft is. After staring at that side for a while, I will have to wait until the engine is back in the car and I'm 100% certain of the compressor outlet and steering shaft positions before I can decide where the bracket goes.



Onto the next thing - DI plugs. I started by 3D printing a blank, plus a set of tools to install the teflon seals.



The small tapered piece expands the seal into its home. The piece with arms is used to evenly push it up the taper, and the large cylinder has a hole with an internal taper that compresses the seal back down to its final required diameter. I have the actual tools ordered, but for mockup these worked surprisingly well.

To the lathe!



I already had a length of 1" OD 6061 aluminum lying around, but only about 22" of it. Each piece needs to be about 3-1/4" long, and I wanted at least 1" to hold in the chuck. But the math didn't add up - I couldn't get 6 4" pieces out of 22". I realized I'd waste less if I made two at a time, I could clamp in the middle and once both sides were done, cut it in half and finish the other end. My lathe can fit 3/4" all of the way through the chuck, but not 1" so I couldn't just install the whole bar.





Two plugs in place:


And I printed up a retainer piece that bolts into the stock DI fuel rail boss to hold the plug in place.



The Ford injectors use a single teflon seal at the tip, but the GM versions use two slightly shorter seals. I noticed on this version of the DI plug kit they used a dust boot at the top of the injector shaft where the stock Ford setup doesn't. I ended up ordering a Fel-Pro ES73128, which is an injector rebuild kit for the 2015-2020 GM V8s, so that got me 16 of the teflon seals and 8 of the dust boots.



I think I'm going to go with dual seals on my plugs. The only downside is just a couple more minutes of machining time, but if it saves me from spraying hot combustion chamber contents all up into the atmosphere I think it's worth it.

See the first 10 seconds of this video:
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 03:05:40 PM by Laminar »

Offline cholmes

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2024, 12:32:14 PM »
We use a small teflon o-ring in one of our products. I've found it really helps to boil the o-rings in water for quite a long time -- 12 minutes -- before installing. Then I can easily push them into place with my thumbs. Without boiling, impossible to do without damaging them.

Certainly the proper tools in your case will really help, but installing at room temperature may stretch them beyond the point of recovery. Even with boiling, I've found it best to wait overnight after installation to allow them to fully shrink back to normal size before completing assembly.

Once they're fished out of the boiling water they can immediately be handled with bare fingers no problem. Teflon is a great heat insulator so they won't burn you. That same characteristic is why you have to boil them so long to get them heated clear through.

BTW, where'd you get the light for your welding helmet? I want one!

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2024, 12:55:42 PM »
That's great info, thanks! I saw it mentioned repeatedly that no lube is to be used to install the teflon o-ring or the assembled injector in the head, which feels counterintuitive but I assume is because the teflon is naturally slick and lube would actually mess up the heat transfer.

The headlamp is this one from Harbor Freight, I just cut off the strap and zip-tied it to the helmet. Between that and the battery pack it does add some weight. Not sure I'd want to wear it all day, but for quick spurts it's nice.

Offline cholmes

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2024, 01:11:44 PM »
Glad to help! Thanks for the light info!

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #159 on: February 19, 2024, 08:57:12 AM »
Finished up my DI plugs. I got the actual tools in from Injector Rehab. I like their little taper piece better - obviously the smoother the surface and the thinner the wall the better, so it was nice for expanding the seals onto the plugs. Instead of having a separate pusher and compressor like the OEM tools, they kind of have it combined. My 3D-printed pusher worked better so I used that, and then I ended up going back and forth with my compressor and theirs to get everything seated.







I started poking through my cooling system hoses because I think I want to set it up on the stand and actually get the engine up to temp.



There's a lot there - I'm deleting the EGR so I can eliminate that. The truck it came from had auto start/stop so it had an aux pump to keep coolant moving into the cab for heat even when the engine was stopped, that can go away. It has a loop for the trans cooler, that disappears as well. I ordered an OEM coolant expansion tank, though I don't think I can mount it up front where the F-150 and Mustang have it, as the hoodline is low enough that it wouldn't be the highest point in the engine. Speaking of which, the 2.7 has hot coolant coming out the back of the engine and traveling through an external hard pipe over the top of the intake, then into the radiator (#19). A decent portion of that pipe is above the hoodline, so I might need to do some reconfiguration. The other thing I found (or didn't find, actually) is the flex hose on the back of tube #19 that connects it to #21. I spent a good bit of time digging through all of my shelves and boxes and can't find it. I know I had it out when I was fitting the engine as the firewall requires a touch of clearance to get it to fit, so a bit of time wasted there.

Next I wanted to confirm clutch fitment. When I first got this engine I was pleased to find that the crank had already been factory machined for a standard Mustang pilot bearing.  8)





I wanted to measure pilot bearing depth. The V6 Mustang came with a big thick dual mass flywheel (33lbs!):



I decided to forego that and just got a Coyote clutch kit. The difference is that the slave cylinder in the transmission is expecting some extra thickness, so a spacer is needed behind it when running the thinner Coyote setup.



I, once again, wasted a whole lot of time going through all of my boxes and shelves trying to find my clutch alignment tool. Couldn't find it anywhere, so I just eyeballed it. I may have to 3D print a replacement rather than waste a bunch more time looking through all of my junk. I don't know why I couldn't just leave the alignment tool in the box with the clutch  >:(





The clutch slave is at 72mm fully extended and 108mm fully compressed for 36mm of total stroke. The clutch fingers are 85mm proud of the mating surface with the clutch plate installed. So in this state I would only get 13mm of preload and I'd probably pop the slave apart if I pressed the clutch pedal.

I want about a 5mm buffer to account for clutch wear, so I want the clutch to preload the slave down to 103mm. 36-5-13 = 18mm - the math tells me I need about 18mm more preload. That lines up with the kits available, which are 3/4" (19mm).

I have some 1/4" stainless steel plate on the way, I'll use that to make hold-down brackets for the DI plugs. My replacement fuel pump is here, but I'm still waiting on the sock. Not interested in smoking another fuel pump.

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #160 on: February 20, 2024, 03:12:34 PM »



Offline Exidous

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2024, 01:41:38 AM »
I'm surprised it held with that height and not printed the other way.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2024, 08:09:42 AM »
Me too  :D

I started with a premade model design for a 26-spline T56 on a Chevy. I modified the pilot bushing part for the Ford pilot bushing diameter and exported it. When I went to slice it, I realized the original model had included some raised initials on the handle, and if I oriented it handle down the initials would keep it up off of the bed and I'd have to include supports and it'd be a whole thing.

For a cheap little printer, this thing is surprisingly capable and even the handle overhangs came out without issue.


Offline Laminar

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #163 on: February 27, 2024, 09:23:02 AM »
A few lessons learned. One - the MT-82 isn't 26 spline like the T56 and high-capacity T5 input shafts. I should have counted  :-[

It took a couple more iterations, but I got one that fits really nice and snug in the pilot bearing.



Back on the AN hoses. Finished up the last coolant hose:



Next up is the fuel system. I got 5/16" quick-connect to AN-6 adapters for the rails.



From there I went into a -6 Y which should slot nicely under the cowl and then I can snake down to the fuel hardline under the car.


Offline Exidous

Re: Laminar's RX-8 EcoBoost swap thread
« Reply #164 on: February 28, 2024, 03:41:31 AM »
Ford likes the 10 spline. MT-82 doesn't have the best reputation.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.