Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo LS3/DCT Daily Driver

[gnx7]

Loving the progress.  What was the motivation for going A/W?  Overall cooling of the radiator?

In my Chevelle (turbo LS) I have a 5 gallon reservoir over the rear driver side tire (battery is on the other tire) and combined with the -20AN feed lines it must hold 6-7 gallons (including in the intercooler core area).  More fluid capacity could be in your future!

The compactness of that turbo/wastegate setup is major points!  Plus looks relatively easy to service being all Vband.

Can't wait to see it run this summer and getting some Draggy numbers in. 

[shainiac]

Main motivation for A2W was frontal airflow. I had a vertical flow A2A and it was a 22*9*3.5" core that blocked most of the radiator. And made plumbing a DCT cooler and oil cooler nearly impossible.

The 26*16 rad I had was decent but still needed the fans to run at 185° on the highway. It just didn't see air flow.
 I now have 2x the cooler area and the whole stack is 2" thinner.

 I really liked the A2W on my rotary and it ran consistently cool with minimal water volume outside of a large HX and intercooler. It'll never run subambient, but I'm fine with that.

[shainiac]

I've been making slow but steady progress. I’ve been chugging away a couple hours 3-4 nights a week consistently.
Wiring is 99.5%. All the EGTs are added, PDM integrated, and I re-did a bunch of the under-dash wiring. Also added a second EMAP sensor to the D/S turbo (one that blew up) that needs wired. I'm re-routing the IAT to the intake manifold and bought RIFE fast IAT sensors for pre and post IC.
I also need to solder all the steering wheel controls once the new hub plate is back from laser cutting/3D printing. The mockup photos are below.
I have the CANCheck CFE18 PCB mounted to the hub. The 4 clockspring wires solder directly to it (12V, GND, CanH, CanL). All of the buttons, paddles, and trim pots will wire directly to the CFE and get decoded/sent to the ECU via CAN. Everything passes through a quick release hub, too.

The turbos are finally re-installed and all tightened up. They are NOT easy to remove without removing the entire manifolds. I wanted EMAP on both turbos because I had what I would consider high EMAP last fall. It was over 2:1 at only 5-6psi of MAP. My old turbo setup on the 5.3 had a more restrictive exhaust and smaller turbos for the given engine size and didn’t hit 2:1 until 18psi MAP. I’m hoping the high EMAP had to do with the D/S turbo already being damage, but not yet seized. Which would be great, except for the fact that a decent amount of the compressor wheel was not accounted for lol.

Parts are in-hand for the oil and DCT cooler lines. I’m going to make those last so nothing I’m forgetting will interfere. Goal posts keep getting moved, but I think the car should be running (and driving?) by the end of the month.

[shainiac]

Finally powered on the ECU, PDM, IC7 and new wiring! I’d call it a 95% success. The only issues I had were no CAN communication with the new DCT wiring (and Maxx controller). This ended up being missing terminating resistors. The MaxxECU Pro has 2 CANbuses. I have the dash, keypad, PDM, and I/O hub on CAN1 and the DCT on CAN2. Apparently CAN2 doesn’t have default terminating resistors. Swapping the DCT to CAN1 and everything worked as it should.
The only other issue is a mis-wired trim pot on the steering wheel I/O hub. I wired one trim pot opposite of the other, thinking that it would just sweep 0-5V opposite (CCW) of the other trim pot. I guess it doesn’t really work that way, because that trim pot and every switch that it shares a ground with are acting goofy. The I/O hub is working over CAN flawlessly, though. It’s pretty cool to have 8 switches and 2 trim pots sent through a quick release hub.

The IC7 worked right away, once I got the right firmware on it. Haltech keeps teasing updating the IC7 to the Nexus software suite. I’m looking forward to that, because the old IC7 software isn’t great. They’re CAN default for MaxxECU is also old and has limited inputs compared to what Maxx is capable of broadcasting. I definitely need to play with the display settings, because it’s pretty ugly now lol.

It’s annoying that the rewire took so long, but a lot of stuff did get added:

• MaxxECU DCT Gen2 wiring loom (no more HTG)
• 8 individual EGTs
• Thermocouples for intercooler water in and out, and ambient air temp
• Rife fast IAT sensors pre-IC and post-IC
• EMAP sensors for both manifold banks
• PDM power for starter, IC pump, horn, interior accessories, ECU, coils, injectors
• Haltech IC7 dash
• CanChecked CFE18 I/O board in the steering wheel hub
• Cleaned up and simplified a bunch of misc. wiring
• Spal brushless fan with ECU PWM control
• Pierberg CWA200 brushless intercooler pump with ECU PWM control

I also ordered a bunch of 3D prints from Xometry. I’m getting all new nylon-glass SLS parts for the double-DIN switch panel, the back housing of the paddle shifter plate, trim pot knobs, shift knob, and a couple other things.

I had SendCutSend cut, bend, and powdercoat a heatshield for the intercooler. It covers the front of the IC water cores and is offset ¼”. I bought some neoprene foam that’ll sandwich between the headshield and IC. Hopefully that’ll help some with heatsoak from the rad fan.


The C7Z Spal brushless fan is pretty impressive. Here’s a quick video of it running on like 11V. It grabs the 1/16” thick silicone gasket sheet like it was a leaf lol.

https://i.imgur.com/UVNsXQm.mp4

I STILL need to make the cooler lines, but once that’s done I can add fluids and try starting it back up. Still plenty of other loose ends, but hopefully the sound of a running engine provides some extra motivation.








[/list]

[digitalsolo]

For that amount of rework, that's a pretty short list of problems.  .  Congrats on the progress!

[shainiac]

Engine is running again! Still a couple items that need checked off for driving, but it's pretty close.

Since the last startup, I've changed the following:

• New radiator, trans cooler HX, oil cooler HX
• A2W intercooler and front HX
• Added PDM and converted DCT wiring over to MaxxECU
• New DCT trans and adapter plate, flex plate, and sprung damper for input shaft
• Haltech dash and CAN sheering wheel hub

Happy to say pretty much everything worked first try, except the Haltech and the DCT.
I (foolishly) updated the IC-7 dash to Haltech's new NSP software the day they released it. It provides essentially no benefit for people with other ECUs using it as just a dash. AND, Haltech botched the CAN setting for MaxxECU. Maxx uses 500kb CAN speeds for pretty much all modules. You can set it to whatever you want, but if you're using drop-down accessories like my PDM, keypad, CAN IO hub for the steering wheel, the DCT, you need to run 500kb. Haltech [/i]had[/i] the Maxx set to 500kb, but when they released NSP for IC-7, they defaulted it to 1MB. Okay, nbd, I'll put the IC-7 on my empty #2 CAN channel. That worked and all is good, except the DCT doesn't seem happy on CAN1 with all the other IO traffic.

The way Maxx is able to use the later Gen2 DCTs is through a 3rd party flash software called xHP. It's a software mainly used by OEM BMW guys to flash tunes for DCTs, 8HPs, etc. They way it's supposed to work, you connect the app to the transmission, and when it's paired with a MaxxECU, it'll give you the option to download a custom firmware package that basically jailbreaks the DCT to work with the MaxxECU. The only way I was able to get it to connect to MaxxECU is if I put the DCT back on CAN2 and set to 500kb, so the IC-7 is not currently working until they update and fix the Maxx defaults in NSP.

The only "mechanical" issue I've ran into has been a weird whistle sound that comes in above 2000rpm. I pressure checked the entire charge pipe setup, intake manifold, etc. There wasn't any leaks larger than a few push-lok fittings that needed pushed in a little more.
I also disconnected all of the charge piping thinking maybe the intercooler was causing the noise. Nope.
I started running down the list of stuff I had changed since last time the engine ran. The only thing I could think of was the new flex plate and DCT hub adapter. What do you know, the flex plate has like 18 damn torque converter holes in it. It was whistling like a flute lol.
My attempted fix, which seems to be working, was to put a small pieces of foil HVAC tape over each hole. Through the starter access lol.
It was a pain but the engine sounds good now.

Video of ghost noise
https://imgur.com/Sw6L7ec

Photos of the whistley holes.

[shainiac]

Forgot to add a couple more videos and images

Video of engine after tape - no whistle!
https://imgur.com/Ak0DXn2

Video of A2W swirl pot
https://imgur.com/8z79E5U

Finished nylon SLS 3D printed shifter stuff. All the buttons and 0-5V trim pots come across CANbus through the clock spring. No more curly cord!

[Esser]

Good find on the whistle noise haha, that would have drove me nuts!!!

[digitalsolo]

Hah, that flex plate noise is such a custom setup problem.  Kudos on figuring it out.

That steering wheel setup looks super professional!

[Cobranut]

I love the steering wheel setup.  Amazing job.

I kinda liked the whistle.  Sounds like the Jetsons car.  LMAO 

[MPbdy]

Those turbos sound mean!

[shainiac]

Thanks, guys.

xHP reset my DCT license, so I was able to flash the DCT and get it working with MaxxECU on Monday.
There are still some DCT settings to figure out, but it is getting there. I need to populate the torque table and get the DCT a wheel speed signal it likes.

Unfortunately my wife's Lexus CT200H popped a head gasket (again), so my car is sidelined until that's finished. This gasket started leaking coolant into the cylinder at 225k. The last one was at 155k, and I doubt it was original. Apparently this generation of Toyota hybrid engines (Gen3 Prius, CT200H) like to eat head gaskets. Supposedly it's all the extra heat cycles from the hybrid stop/start fatigues the head gasket and they just start leaking coolant into the cylinder. This will be the first DOHC car I've ever done engine work on, so hopefully all goes well.

Here's a video of the DCT going into gear. The keypad is now programmed to act as a gear display. Right now the buttons aren't doing anything other than lighting up, but can be used for other functions. I'm not sure what I want to use them for yet.
Looking at it now, I need to flip N/R and D/A so that it matches the pattern of the shifter lol

Video:
https://imgur.com/rlvuE8u

[shainiac]

The car's finally back on the road. Plenty of bugs to work out with the DCT, but the bulk of the new stuff has been problem-free.
Surprisingly not a single leak from all fabricated cooling parts, new hoses, pumps, etc.
The rad, oil HX, and DCT HX work well. The car warms up quick and stays cool. I did put in a new OEM thermostat and it runs hotter than my 5.3, but I think it's just the 187F tstat.
Coolant temps are around 195, oil temps 205, DCT 175F.

All the PDM stuff and new wiring is working correctly.

The Intercooler works, but IATs are "hot". I think it's mostly because the new sensor is in the intake manifold, right over the water pump and gets heat soaked. IATs actually drop if I do a pull.
The water temps leaving and entering the IC heat exchanger are very reasonable. They're very close to the ambient air temp probe I have behind the bumper, and maybe 10F warmer than actual weather ambient temps. IATs are usually around 100F, but I'm not confident it's actually that warm. All intake air for the turbos is ducted to the front bumper.

My main issues right now are to do with the DCT setup. The MaxxECU really wants to see a rear wheel speed so that it can validate the DCT output shaft speed to calculate clutch slip.
I only have a front VSS (kit for FCs that I make). I changed that input in Maxx to be a "rear" wheel speed, so that the DCT will work, but it has issues. If I have tire slip, the front VSS isn't going to go up, but RPM will. Since the ECU thinks the front VSS is actually the rear VSS, it thinks that wheel spin is actually clutch slip and will cut the engine to save the clutches from getting smoked.

I actually re-installed the OEM tone ring for the Ford 8.8" when i did the Truetrac, but never got the OEM sensor working. I messed around with that this week and found that it's a "Active" sensor and outputs a 1.85V-3.55V square wave with some resistors and crap to work with a conventional digital input. MaxxECU doesn't let you change the voltage thresholds for the generics digital inputs, so I'm not sure I'll be able to make it work. I'm currently waiting on a new sensor and pigtail so I can wire it properly.

Other than that, the car drives pretty decent. Auto mode works surprisingly well for just cruising around. I haven't gotten to the point where I'm playing with throttle blipping and rev matching yet.
There are a few bugs that I need to contact customer support and see what's up. The clutches don't disengage when I come to a stop reliably and nearly stalls the engine. My car idles around 900rpm, which is 50% higher than an OEM M4, but apparently the MaxxECU is supposed to send target idle to the trans? TBD. I'm just happy to drive the car again.

I only drove the car a small amount last fall before the turbo grenaded, but I'm pretty confident that it was damaged nearly from the beginning.
In order to make wastegate pressure, I needed quite a bit of dome pressure. With the replaced turbo and new intercooler, it makes gate pressure on gate and seems peppier everywhere.
It makes enough power on the 3psi gate springs to spin the tires in 3rd gear and will make that 3psi by like 2000 rpm lol.

I've got most of next week off work, so I hope to put a bunch of miles on it and work out more bugs.

[digitalsolo]

Congrats on the progress.  Projects are a lot more fun when they at least mostly work. 

Does the Ronin setup preclude using S5 tone rings on the rear hubs for speed pickup?   I use lug studs and a Cherry sensor on my Mustang for front wheel speed, but it's pretty "rough" below about 10 MPH, not sure if that would make the Maxx angry.

[shainiac]

Thanks, Blake.

Yes, I believe the Ronin Grande kit makes it not possible to use a factory tone ring since it uses Explorer outer CVs.
But I should take a closer look at the OEM sensor location and see if I could add a reluctor. The only sucky part would be pressing out the Ronin hub and having to replace the wheel bearings.
Hopefully I can get the OE Ford sensor working. It sucks not having traction control and having the car go into clutch protection mode at the slightest wheelspin.

I did make some changes to the DCT flash tune in xHP that made an improvement in drivability. There's an option to edit "Creep" mode in xHP (aftermarket OBD flash tuning software for the DCT).
I had it disabled, thinking that it would prevent creep (car rolls when you let off the brake like an torque converter auto). I figured having the setting disabled would disable creep. I guess it disables editing the stock creep settings. I enabled it and turned off all creep. Now the car seems less prone to stalling. Still need to do more driving to determine. I also flashed the TCU with higher shift points and to start in 2nd gear in Auto mode. Both made street driving more comfortable. I was having an issue where the car would want to auto upshift into 7th at low throttles above like 40mph. 1400rpm and 50kpa made the car run kinda choppy, so that's better now.

The weather's been great here, so I'm stoked to be able to drive it everywhere.