March 18, 2025, 05:50:19 PM

Author Topic: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo LS3/DCT Daily Driver  (Read 146069 times)

Offline cholmes

The sound in that last video is epic!

kinger, the Royal Purple info is good to know, thanks.

Offline kinger

Do you have a diff cooler?  You have a  LOT of TQ running through it, you may be burning the fluid up and it's wearing gears?  I haven't even looked at mine in 2 years, quiet as a mouse, but I have half your power. 

Probably unrelated but I'll throw it out because you know your stuff.  In my 500hp snowmobile, I have a chain drive that connects to the clutches, every year I would take out a chain, like stretch it out so the links wouldn't even rotate freely.  Switched from OEM ATF recommendation to 75/90wt and it helped some, got in a pinch and threw in royal purple 75/140 wt and voila they last about 3 years now. 

What fluid are you running now? 


I don't have a cooler, so I dunno if the fluid is getting cooked or now. I'm not pushing fluid out the breather hose and I don't have any catch can. I also have heat shields around the exhaust where it's close to the diff.

I've been running Redline 75W140NS since day-1. The Ford diff case specs 75W140, but the TrueTrac recommends conventional 80W90. My issues seem to be Ford-related, not TrueTrac, and I'm using the Ford weight oil. I thought these diffs were supposed to be pretty bulletproof, so I dunno. Torque is pretty limited in the lower gears on my car. I'm running wastegate pressure in 1st and 2nd and limiting throttle to 60% in 1st and 80% in 2nd. I'm also traction limited with 18" wheels and no burnouts. It's not like I'm launching on 275 radials on a prepped track. I'm kind of leaning towards poor setup of the ring and pinion or maybe even a damaged case??

Have you seen this on Eatons page?

"What kind of oil should I use for my Detroit Truetrac? Can I use synthetic? Do I need friction additive/modifier?
A quality, petroleum-mineral based, GL5 rated 80w-90 gear oil should be used.
Synthetic oils are not recommended for Truetrac applications. While some customers have found that synthetic oils works well in this application, Eaton has not confirmed under test conditions that all synthetic oils are compatible with Detroit Truetrac applications.
Friction modifiers should not be used because they will decrease performance (reduce differential bias)."

There is also more on the break in of it and some posts I found mention the sparkle like what you have until it is broken and its completely normal. 
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/products/differentials-traction-control/aftermarket-differentials/detroit-truetrac-faqs.html

I have a Cobra diff so mine is much different then your trutrac. 
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline shainiac

I have seen that. It was my understanding that the wrong fluid weight and type can change how the diff's performance as an LSD, but bearing and R&P should still be happy with factory weight 75W140. I don't think any of my issues are TrueTrac-related. I should have the diff out after work for further inspection. R&P or bearing failure is just my speculation based on the last R&P that died.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline shainiac

I got the diff out and apart yesterday. The gear mesh pattern and the R&P still look fine. None of the bearings look suspect. The only thing we found was that there was basically zero preload on the pinion. Like I could spin a partial rotation with my finger. My friend who put it together things I crushed the crush collar. I measured preload after it was rebuilt a few months ago and it was on the high-side of spec for new bearings, so it makes sense that something moved. I'll have a solid pinon spacer kit here tomorrow and I'm going to try putting it back together myself.

On the bright side, I was able to put the reluctor wheel back on the TrueTrac, so now I'll have rear VSS. The OEM clutch diff has a notch for the reluctor. I ground that off and it was still a tight press fit on the TrueTrac case. It required a few progressions to larger hammers to get it on.  I just need to figure out what pigtail the stock diff ABS sensor uses.

And since everything's out of the car, I have the opportunity to do some "while you're in theres". I bought a new Ford front diff mount to replaced my roached original one. One of my Grande kit wheel bearings has a bit of play, so ordered a new one of those. The E-brake cables that got botched by the brake kit will get replaced. One of crankcase evac check valves got stuck open from being constantly sucking in oil with my old valve covers. That also pressurized the crankcase and pushed the front main seal. Lots of oil to clean up. When it rains, it pours.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline kinger

How many miles are we talking here between car is 'done' to needing this type of Maintenance? 

Crushing the crush collar, how does this happen with driving?
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline shainiac

I'm not sure what you're referring to as 'done' lol.
The diff was rebuilt in April of this year. It's been quiet right up until this last weekend, when I did a bunch of hard launches and street pulls. The ambient temps were 95-100F and the pavement was super sticky.

I was told that the crush sleeve is a bad idea on cars making higher hp, I don't know what that's defined as.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline kinger

Quote
I'm not sure what you're referring to as 'done' lol.


I finally got the car back together with the MRP brakes and stock knuckles.

I think since May 25th  :drive:

I put 'done' in quotes because we all know the fun in these things is they are never done but in a current usable form LOL 

I was just trying to assess if that type of power is a maintenance hog or if its still reliable. 

My build will be around 720hp crank NA, 600+ whp and hoping its as maintenance free on diffs, trans, clutches as it has been for me with the 383 in there. 
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline shainiac

I think since May 25th  :drive:

I put 'done' in quotes because we all know the fun in these things is they are never done but in a current usable form LOL 

I was just trying to assess if that type of power is a maintenance hog or if its still reliable. 

My build will be around 720hp crank NA, 600+ whp and hoping its as maintenance free on diffs, trans, clutches as it has been for me with the 383 in there. 

I’d say it’s been reliable. I “rebuilt” the stock 5.3 in Jan 2017 with new rings and gaskets and reused all the OEM bearings and oil pump. I’ve never taken the head back off since and oil pressure is plenty healthy.
It does have a mild 218/227 cam, BTR dual valve springs and pushrods,LS7 lifters, Improved Racing pan baffle, but that’s pretty much it. Has had a 7200rpm limiter since day 1. Last time it got dyno’d, it made over 700whp from 5500-7100 and has seen hundreds of 600hp+ pulls to redline since.

It seems like my current problems are mostly just 2 things – The Ratech crush collars aren’t working for me, and my old valve covers sucking so much oil out the breathers clogged my scavenger evac check valve. The leaky check valve pressurized the crankcase/pushed the front seal out. I replaced the valve already and am adding a MAP sensor to the oil cap to monitor crankcase pressures. If they’re much over ambient, I’ll probably swap to a vented catch can.
Good news is the scavenger venturis look dry after swapping to the LS9 valve covers. Hopefully the solid pinion spacer fixes my other issue.

'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline shainiac

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #458 on: August 08, 2022, 08:26:07 AM »
I got the car back together this weekend. It took me a dozen tries to get the preload with the solid pinion spacer correct. I don't have the correct pinion wrench tool, so I was using the biggest pair of Channel-locks to hold the yoke while using a torque wrench with the other hand. Giant PITA. Everything is back together now and I put some trouble-free miles on the car over the weekend.

The diff is mostly as quiet as before I think. MUCH quieter than when the crush sleeve was toast. Below is a photo of the Ratech crush sleeve new and used. It had permanent deformed 0.050" and there was NO preload on the pinion and even a slight amount of end play.

I also replaced one of the leaky scavenger check valves that was coked up with burnt oil. I also bought a second oil cap, drilled and tapped it for 1/8" NPT, and plumbed it to a 2-bar MAP sensor that's logged through the ECU. The scavengers pull 0.5psi of vacuum at idle, a little more during cruising, but crank case pressure climbs during pulls. It seems to creep higher the longer the pull, which makes me think the the breathers just aren't flowing enough. It makes around 1psi crankcase pressure at 6500rpm and 10psi after a 4000rpm-long pull. Good news is, the car isn't leaking or burning oil anymore. No clue what pressure was before I replaced the valve, but it had pushed the front seal out twice and was dripping a good amount of oil. I just pressed the seal back with a prybar and crossed my fingers it'd stay put. Pulling the balancer would require removing the radiator and I was hoping not to have to do that for now.

When the diff was apart, I reinstalled the Ford reluctor wheel to the diff in the hopes of getting a clean rear VSS for traction control (DCT controller's VSS is super noisy). I wired the Ford 2-wire sensor to the ECU as a VR type sensor, but haven't been able to get it to work. My plan is to replace it with a Hall sensor.
I did add a ton of smoothing for the noisy DCT VSS and got it to mostly track the front wheels. The issue is, when there's a huge spike up or down from noise, the smoother VSS will make a small shift for a longer duration, which throws the car into TC. The MaxxECU traction control is pretty interesting. There are no correction maps for %cut or retard vs. wheel slip. It just has a PID table (a single table or a PID for high speed and low speed) and you select what method you want to use for TC (spark cut, cut and retard, fuel cut, etc). With the default setting and noisy VSS, it was still able to reign in wheel spin in 2nd gear, which usually just smokes the tires. I'm looking forward to getting the rear VSS working properly.



'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline cholmes

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #459 on: August 08, 2022, 01:59:28 PM »
You might think about an electric crankcase vacuum pump. I got the idea from Grant of Grannies Speed Shop, check out his site about his FB drag car.

It's a pump used by several OEMs to pump a little air into the cat converter on cold starts. Most common junkyard ones are on '90's GM FWD cars. I activate it with a relay which is triggered by a vacuum switch when intake vacuum drops below 5" HG. The pump will pull a 5" crankcase vacuum on my engine even with the dipstick pulled out, and maintains 4" - 5" on a long full throttle blast. My engine is NA.

I don't recommend running the pump full time, as the motor gets HOT. Also, beware of cheap Chinese replacements, they're not nearly as powerful. In the junkyard, remove the rubber cover from over the motor and check it to the photos on Grant's site. Leave the rubber cover off for better motor cooling.

Offline shainiac

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #460 on: August 08, 2022, 02:10:05 PM »
Oh wow, that's impressive that you hold a vacuum at WOT. Also, I don't recommend googling "granny vacuum pump" on a work computer LOL.
Most of the reason I went with the scavengers is because of packaging. I have a lot of shit going on and adding a catch can and pump would only add to that.
If I have issues with keeping the front main seal in the engine, then I very well may have to do something like that.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline scuter83

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #461 on: August 08, 2022, 02:15:06 PM »
GM LTG/LHU engines also had vacuum pumps from the factory.

Offline cholmes

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #462 on: August 08, 2022, 03:36:59 PM »
Ha! Never thought about Grannies being NSFW.........

Offline freeskier7791

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #463 on: August 10, 2022, 07:22:10 AM »
I definitely want to add a MAP sensor after seeing your results.  I did push out a valve cover gasket because I have aftermarket valve covers on my LT1 that dont fully capture the gasket, but after that I had no issues with oil leaks the last time I went drifting.
https://www.youtube.com/thedriftingdad
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL Drift Car

CCVT

Offline shainiac

Re: Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag - Twin Turbo 5.3 Daily Driver Build
« Reply #464 on: August 10, 2022, 07:24:56 AM »
It's definitely cool data to have. I contemplated setting up an alarm for crankcase pressure like oil pressure or lean AFR, but it'd probably just tell me a ring land cracked after it happened lol
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS