Joel's 1972 Land Cruiser Project

[digitalsolo]

Lexan fenders with pull-off sheets like NASCAR windshields.   

[Cobranut]

Lexan fenders with pull-off sheets like NASCAR windshields.   

That's an idea, but that tear-off material doesn't conform to curves very well.
I also doubt it would stand up to a sizeable rock hit, but would certainly slow down any damage.

[wickedrx7]

Lexan fenders with pull-off sheets like NASCAR windshields.   

This is actually a good idea! You could use a clear bra material and just replace it every now and then. It would probably still get a little beat up over time but would be pretty neat.

[frijolee]

New topic, starting out with some out of date pics. 

As you probably don’t remember back in January 2018 I was debating hard over pedals and decided to buy some s2000 units that looked promising. 




I’d like to use a Subaru Brake booster because it’s a matched set to a larger MC that looks close for my brakes.  It also has the advantage that it uses the same pattern as does both my rx7 and these s2k pedals.  Grab some header legos to mockup the size and transfer to the firewall.






Bolt the pedals in (just mocked in place and there’s a problem.  I’m way way choked up on the seat. 




And the back seat is fully fitted and needs X amount of space for feet back there.  It’s not just the pedals either, because in what feels like a comfy foot position I basically have the firewall at the elevation where the surface of the pedals wants to be.  This says, I either need to A) sell the rig to a little person, or B) do some major rework on something.

Well, let’s start by taking some measurements of the vehicles I have at hand.  Seat pans measure similar across the board.  Mazda 5 and Jeep XJ are both right at 19” from brake pedal to the front edge of the seat.






RX7 is more like 21”.  It’s also way low slung so it makes sense my legs would be flatter.




The XJ is sitting at about 15” (yikes!) and it’s seating position is more similar to the Rx7 than the others given the raised floorboards.  How the heck do I find 6”?  There’s just not a lot of space to clear headers if I try to take the firewall that far forward.




After starring at this for a while I figure out there’s only so many levers to pull, but maybe if I pull all them I can find enough…

1) Raise seat 1”.  Easy enough.  That lets me install some sliders so bonus there.
2) Tip pedals, the contour runs away from the firewall at the base and that’s mostly where my header problems are going to be.
3) Shift seat a tough to the left, that helps the angled plate at the firewall.
4) Raising the seat to 1.5” means that the rear passenger’s toes can go under the seat so that helps get the seat a touch further aft.
5) Make all those changes and you can finally picture a 3D firewall extension that just might do the trick and only needs to bulge 2.5” or so.  If you can control where it bulges maybe you can get there.

CAD study:






Header mockup just to be sure…  Well, we just might have something here.

[freeskier7791]

I like those header legos, did you make yourself or buy them?  IT is always a struggle finding leg space in an offroad car.  How much higher can you put the seat, the key is to get it as high as you can so your legs are not as flat.  Alot of the Dakar cars put the drivers legs almost straight up and down.

[wickedrx7]

That looks like it might work to gain some leg room. I have dreams of building a stretched FJ someday, by 6". I think it would make the truck look better and give a little more room up front.

[digitalsolo]

Oof, that's a not-that-fun situation.     Looks like a solid path (I know we're looking back in time here currently).

[frijolee]

I like those header legos, did you make yourself or buy them?  IT is always a struggle finding leg space in an offroad car.  How much higher can you put the seat, the key is to get it as high as you can so your legs are not as flat.  Alot of the Dakar cars put the drivers legs almost straight up and down.

Thanks.  Header legos are by Icengineworks...  Decent article here:  https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1111-header-modeling-kit-build-pipe-dream/

Hey look at that!  Looks like you can 3D print them now too.  https://www.yeggi.com/q/exhaust+header/

I'll keep that in mind for the seating.  I might be able to get 2" vertical but I need to check.

[kinger]

Dumb question, where did all the space go?  Wasn't it comfortable before?  Or did it not have a back seat and your trying to incorporate that for the kiddos? 

[frijolee]

Dumb question, where did all the space go?  Wasn't it comfortable before?  Or did it not have a back seat and your trying to incorporate that for the kiddos? 

Factory back seat was a side facing bench seat.  I'm so far gone from factory I'm not even sure I could tell you exactly where my seat lands in relative terms.  I did spot a nice one in town (LS powered!) but parked so I didn't get to chat up the owner.  Pics because I thought it was cool.
















This seems to confirm Andrew's comment on the vertical leg positioning...  I do have 3" chopped out of my body and raised floorboards for the transfer case etc.

[frijolee]

The CAD study was my pause point as the Cruiser moved 2,500 miles—plus an ocean—with cardboard taped to the firewall. 

Once we were settled in, I started picking away at the projects I could get too without fully unpacking the rig.  It still had doors, hatch, and a bunch of boxes stored inside.  That’s why I went after the rear seat first, it was one of the easiest areas to get to and working from the ends on the big interfaces seemed like a good place to start.

That said, the firewall is about the most complicated interface I have left to play with.  Headers, pedals, steering, remote oil filter, feet.  It all has to be happy ergonomically and play nice with one another.  Ironically, I think the steering gives me a bit of a free pass since I can put the control valve under the dash and run lines where I want them (no steering column with full hydro).

Anyways, fam was out of town and had a friend who wanted to hang so I recruited a helper for wrenching (we dialed in his steering on the JK, so I got to return favor a bit).  Decided it was time to launch into the firewall.

Here’s how it sat after finally unstrapping the 2x hoods.




When I did primer on most places, I also seam sealed and shot the shock towers black, in what I think will be my color for all the tube work.  I’m using Rustoleum Engine Enamel Low Gloss Black. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Automotive-12-oz-Low-Gloss-Black-Engine-Enamel-Spray-Paint-6-Pack-248938/202436448

Good stuff, oil and chip resistant, holds up well under UV, easy to touch up given the low gloss.  Thanks to 65imp for turning me onto the stuff.

The idea in pre painting these areas is that it will simplify painting around the shocks in the future…  It also protect voids and crevasses that will be hard to sand/scuff up later.   I’m sure I’m not the only one who looks at a stupid-far-from-finished rig and contemplates paint colors (current lead candidate is metallic orange w/ a silver roof and black tube work/fenders, but I also get excited about aquamarine on occasion).

Part of what makes the template work—in theory anyways—is that it tips the pedals a bit (mounting surface isn’t vertical). 




It looks OK, so I convert to steel.  I’m using 0.050” because it’s what I have handy and seems reasonable.  I will plan to reinforce pedals to help stiffen the firewall vs. just tin canning some flat pieces. 

This is the kinda work where my mag brake excels.  One piece FTW!








By the way, my friend John plays a mean didgeridoo and found a chunk of ABS on my wall that worked pretty well.




First snag… Pedals need more vertical real estate.  Since I hadn’t cut out the firewall to verify the inside fitment I missed this.  I had to cut the top seams and fold my steel work back open.  I suppose I could cut the pedals but I’m trying to keep as much of that stock as I can.  If I’m lucky, I’m hoping I can use an S2k throttle cable grommet.




Here it is with firewall cut away and the new piece mocked up behind.  I did left a flange I can bend over to help welding up the seams (with thanks to Project Binky for that build tip).




But now I have a real problem.  The overall vertical clearance is damn tight…  Putting the pedals where I want them to be I run a real risk of the booster or master cylinder crashing into the hood.  Remember that thing about the pedals needing to tip for fore/aft clearance?  That makes my MC/booster combo point somewhat uphill.  That makes it a harder 3D problem than my simple header lego mockup.

Measure all three of my other cars, the throttle tends to be about 4.5” off the floor, brake more like 6”.   As shown I’m only at 4” for throttle and not quite 5” for the brake.  I don’t think I have an inch left of room to the hood.

Decide not to be a wuss and even though it’s late and I’m tired, I bit the bullet and unload everything from inside the rig.  I have to try this and see what it feels like and my brain is too wired up to sleep not knowing.  Get the front seat mocked in and try it out.  Sure enough, the pedals feel low.  You can tell through the soles of your feet.  Dammit…  Joys of custom vehicles I guess.

I certainly want to get the MC/booster as high as I can, so that’ll take some careful mockups and I need to get the booster mounted all the way—which I can’t do without my firewall fortifications since I need thickness for the mounting to be correct.  I also need to track down an MC reservoir as they intentionally break those at the junkyard.  I can’t remember if I keep the broken one or not, gotta dig.

I can cut and relocate the pedals on their respective swing arms but I’m a little worried about having enough brake gain and/or an overly sensitive throttle pedal.  The brake calipers are huge and were intended for use with a hydroboost, which I can’t do because of my fully hydro steering.  Every story I’ve read about daisy chaining hydro steering and brakes off a common pump ends badly and I’m not ready to try to package a second PS pump…  If I think this is bad, I’m DEFINITELY not stoked on working that one out.

I could run a smaller diameter booster (maybe) but again, I need the brake system gain because of the huge tires.  I can’t move the floorboards down and still have space for the exhaust to run inside my triangular space frame boat sides thingies.  Oh and if I get this wrong, I won’t know until I’m way way down the road.

Suggestions?  Worth hooking up the full brake system so I can try the pedal?  I kinda don’t think it’ll be representative enough without vacuum and I have a long way to go before this thing can move on its own to check.  Anyone know brake system experts in the industry I could reach out to?  I’d gladly pay a few hundo for a consult at this point.

In the meantime, I need to design myself in as much flexibility as I can.  If that means I have to build the entire firewall extension but only tack it in—to able to move the whole piece around and allow different boosters and what not—that might be what I have to do. 

[digitalsolo]

Could you make a linkage setup to increase leverage?   Hydro boost or electric brake master ?

WWBD (what would Binky Do)?   Haha

[DDv8]

Have you looked at a 2 section hydraulic pump? run hydro off 1 section and ps off of other.  We use full hydro steering on some of our equipment and second section for other needs.

DD

[Cobranut]

Have you looked at a 2 section hydraulic pump? run hydro off 1 section and ps off of other.  We use full hydro steering on some of our equipment and second section for other needs.

DD

I like that idea.

BTW, is hydraulic steering legal on a street vehicle?

[frijolee]

Have you looked at a 2 section hydraulic pump? run hydro off 1 section and ps off of other.  We use full hydro steering on some of our equipment and second section for other needs.
DD

What are the odds they come in LS form factors?  FWIW, I probably just need to suck it up and package what I have as high as I can.  Trimming ribs off the hood (or even building a custom brake fluid reservoir) is trivial compared to the gnarly approaches possible.

BTW, is hydraulic steering legal on a street vehicle?

Gotta phrase this carefully...  Full hydraulic is "not illegal" in most states.  It's a little like bead lock wheels in that for the most part there's simply no commentary.  These guys do a pretty good job explaining it: http://www.liftlaws.com/is_full_hydro_steering_street_legal.htm   Tennesee is the exception where the law says no steering modifications allowed.  I did a bunch of my own digging and didn't find anything different in Hawaii or federal DOT codes.

Full Hydro is also one of those things where I'm a bit nervous about what it'll feel like having never done it.  I'm relying a great deal on Billavista's brilliant offroad tech articles for things like return-to-center and road feel.
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Hydraulic_Steering_Bible/index.html
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Performance_Off-Road_Systems_Hydraulic_Steering/index.html 

The good news is that modern steering valves have check valves and vanes inside such that if you loose power, you become the pump.  Supposedly a stalled engine is like a heavier version of loosing PS in a normal rig.  That said, the one failure mode you can't really get around is that of a burst line.  To be fair, I broke off my track bar mount on my XJ which was a single point mechanical failure as well.  I'm just planning to inspect lines a lot.  I'm also planning on cutting brakes on the rear wheels as well.   They're both rad for heavy wheeling and also should let me do a bit of skid steer to a stop if needed (works like a drifter's hydro e brake but one wheel at a time).

I'm all kinds of committed at this point.  This is not only from having bought most of the parts but also a double triangulated front suspension means the axle is forced to be centered at all time.  Which won't let me run a track bar/drag link combo even if I wanted to since a track bar inherently forces the axle to swing in an arc as it drops. 

The fastest speed limits on the island are 60 mph so that helps too.