Thoughts on Miata Swap

[sciff5]

Wanted to tap the greater knowledge of the forum on something I've been mulling over.

Thinking about swapping an NA.

Here are the Pros and Cons as I see it

Pros
- Miatas are cheap and plentiful in new england
- Tossability, even if all out grip may not be great handling feel and tossability is high
- Convertible (always wanted a convertible)
- A little lighter (only seems about 200lbs lighter than an RX7 so not a huge difference
- Reliable/ simple platform. It might be different with the FDs but the switches contacts relays everything electical in the FCs sucks

Cons
- It's a miata. My FC is boxy and tough looking. It has a lot of the same rugged no bs look that I appreciate in fox body stangs too
- Swap kit is expensive / more of the car needs to be upgraded to really handle the power including upgrades to the differential (cts mounts easily) the brakes, potentially broached hubs to handle the power adequately, wheel bearings supposedly wear out quickly with sticky tires.
-No room to run real tires most likely limits absolute limits
- High speed stability / brick aerodynamics. Aero is an overall challenge, it's seems kinda pointless to build a car that within 15 seconds of a standing start can hit speeds where the car starts to experience some serious float.

Also may be some issues with running HPDEs with a convertible. I think you may need more than one of those bolt in roll bars because it's a convertible.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[LSXREX]

https://youtu.be/YaG5SAw1n0c


no but seriously Miatas are so much fun. but you.have to.aear a.mask around wben.driving it. local guy owns an LS3 with cam/heads and.fbr car js just terrifying. but its still a miata. no amount of.hp will curb my hairdresser.comments. if.you do.it Mke.sure.you.get a hardtop and.tint the wokdows.very dark..then.go.out and have a blast.

[mdickw]

Yeah, I think you hit all the right cons: requires way more modification and the power blows way past what the car can put down. Then when it's all done, weight is pretty similar to an RX-7. The only Miata swap I would really consider would be into an NC and mostly just for the benefit of having something from the 21st century. Now NCs have been around long enough that replacement/salvage parts are easy to find.

[Grommit]

Ive had 4 NA's.

Looking at an NC or ND when the FD goes away.
Always loved the flickable nature, still more flickable than my FD which annoys me to no end.

Currently have a 1990 NA that has been..heavily modified suspension wise.

Worried about tires? 949racing.com make some seriously sick 6UL's, 17x9 in Miata fitment..check them out. Thats a lot of tire on an NA, especially at only like 17lbs per wheel...whish they fit an FD. Id have sets already.

The cons I see about the swap are what you've stated pretty much - remember that the getrag diff from a caddy is JUNK to begin with..so might as well stick to the 8.8

I have the original monster miata swap book laying around somewhere for the day I eventually swap one. I have a welded in cage and hardtop so that we can run on blackhawk and road america.
Unless its changed, you used to be able to run if you had a hardtop WITH factory hardtop mounts. There are the front latches, rear latches, and then if the car was ORIGINALLY equipped with a hardtop, there are 2 latches in the middle, 1 on the frame next to each seat - that was legal. if you didnt have those extra latches, it wasn't legal even with a hardtop.

Another possibility - depending on your electrical skill level... why not J Swap the NA? Honda V6..plenty of power, can use factory driveline/axles etc and with a tune..they can net damn near 300whp and 280ish tq depending on which J series you get. (think 2007 acura TL type S) and have a 6 speed that shifts beautifully. Hell, the cost is comparable to a flyin miata turbokit with the Hydra II ecu. Plus again, parts are still cheap and readily available. And honestly, Ive worked at Honda for 11 years...those V6's have pretty much 0 issues. Look at some of the swaps into older EG/EK civics, they are making crazy power on some.

Think about this as well - even if stuff brakes on the Miata...its cheap, easy, and FAST to get replacement parts. FC/FD not as much.

Sorry if Im rambling..Im at work had to do this piecemeal not all at once. I tried to hit main points.

For the J swap = http://www.superfastmiatas.com/JV6%20Miata%20Kit.html

[Track_FC]

Miata's are awesome cars. I'd recommend a Honda K swap... 

http://www.shop.kmiata.com/K-Series-Complete-Conversion-Kit-KM-KIT.htm

[theantirotor]

The j swap is interesting but to suggest that the stock trans and rear will hold up to that for a long time seems very unlikely to me. At least if you drive the car in anger.

[MPbdy]

Miata's are awesome cars. I'd recommend a Honda K swap... 

http://www.shop.kmiata.com/K-Series-Complete-Conversion-Kit-KM-KIT.htm

Holy shit the swap kit costs twice what the car is worth...

[Cman]

The j swap is interesting but to suggest that the stock trans and rear will hold up to that for a long time seems very unlikely to me. At least if you drive the car in anger.

The trans will break with the torque of the V6 if you drive it hard. Turbo Miatas regularly shell them with 200 ft-lbs. I know mine did.

Steve

[orion4096]

I used to have a v8r kit ls1 track miata.  Fun car.  If I were to build a street car I'd do a basic ls3 swap with the v8r kit and be done.  Wide tire options are pretty limited especially for the earlier years.

The k-miata kit looks like a good setup for someone who wants a reliable N/A track car in the 200+ whp range who doesn't want to deal with aftermarket turbo kit track car bullshit.  I say that after having tracked a turbo miata with 230 whp for 2 years.

I'd stay far away from that j swap kit.  So many questionable things just in the pics like the engine mounting, flywheel spacer, steering rack relocation (discussed on another forum).  With swap kits, it  seems like for every 1 thing you see in pics marketing the swap kit you find 5 things that make you say WTF when you actually go to install it.

[sciff5]

Thanks guys, I think I understand the feedback and the potential downsides.

Our local club is the SCDA(http://www.scda1.com/) and ComSCC (http://www.comscc.org/) so I'll just have to check their rule books with regards to the need of a roll bar.

As for other potential engines, I don't think it makes sense as I already own the ls1/t56.

[Track_FC]

Holy shit the swap kit costs twice what the car is worth...

If I added up everything needed to LS swap my $500 FC it would be like 6x the cost of the car. 

I think it's a fairly affordable considering you get a flywheel, oil pan, and all the wiring. K24 engines are relatively inexpensive and since the kit uses the factory Miata 5 speed (I question if it can handle the abuse) it's a pretty big savings there.

I plan on swapping a K series into my S2000 if the F20C ever goes. They really are an amazing engine with tons of aftermarket support.

[bimbleuk]

I've no experience with the Miata myself but watching the first few parts of the series below gives a good indication of the potential mods required for an LS swap maybe others.

https://youtu.be/gDMrJhpeYiE

[scuter83]

[LSXREX]

jesus christ!!!! 700 hp through 225s?! my 350ish hp was terrifying with 225s.

[Sabre002]

I would do the LFX swap V8 roadsters just made a kit for. Much better platform then a LSX to me. Better use of a smaller wheel base car with less tire not having the torque curve that will blow the tires off every time