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Author Topic: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion  (Read 28027 times)

Offline RawrX8

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2015, 01:47:26 PM »
I'll chime in;

I haven't had any bad experience with Jeff. I've ordered quite a bit through him. Only 'long' process was during ordering the Wilwood brakes but I purchased well before the group buy. Just time to figure out if he would machine brackets or I would; he was nice enough to let me use the CAD file and a local machinist cut the brackets for me. One wrong bolt length but wasn't a big deal. Probably a mixed standard. Trip to champion bolt fixed that. Would he make my brake lines or would I? Just typical back and forth communication as I was the first to get this setup before a group buy was even thought of.

I'm a very patient guy so if I had to wait a week or two I didn't care. Heck I'm still waiting for my R magic headlights almost a year later from another source in Japan.

Hope everything gets resolved.
07' RX8 daily
92' RX7 rhd efini
90' MIATA
02' 748R

Offline ncaudio

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2015, 12:17:07 PM »
Looks like Jordan Innovations has been moved to deactivated
'88 FC LS T56, 94 FD LS T56, '93 FD was LS turbo T56 Ford 8.8 IRS Ablake's old car (project)

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2015, 06:55:58 PM »
Indeed.   I have moved them down.   For the purposes of the forum as a whole I do not see a reason to carry discussion with Jeff about it outside of this thread nor do I see a reason to make them active until all outstanding issues are rectified.

I believe this is the will of the forum overall, so, there we are.   :)

-Blake
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline BeasTT

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Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2015, 09:05:02 PM »
2 weeks later, and not a single response from him on here. Classy!
Nick Shultz

1993 Rx-7
371ci, Twin Billet 6265's, Twin A2W's, ProEFI 128, RacePak IQ3,
McLeod RXT, Speedfab 8.8 solid axle, QA1s, FIC 2150cc, Magnafuel 4303

Offline mefarri

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2015, 11:51:16 PM »
It all makes sense now.  I remember asking "how the fuck are you buying all these high dollar parts?"    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we are.
"I'm not sure what your intent was because I don't speak "dumbshit", but next time, start your own thread. "

-Jimlab

"Otherwise it looks like something I can build over a weekend, if I spent the first day watching TV."

-Blake motherfucking McBride

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2015, 01:09:24 AM »
Wow, get busy with stuff and apparently the internet has decided that I've been thieving for years to build my money pit... and not responding to a thread I haven't been emailed about is an admission of guilt?

First of all, to the norotors personalities that barf this speculation that I've essentially stolen money to buy high-dollar parts for my own car - I hope you never come under fire on the internet.  The claims are baseless (truth is, the only reason I have expensive goodies is through partnerships with the manufacturers), realistically indefensible (what can I do, post my Quickbooks files?), and infuriating - all from people I think of myself as helping individually, and as a group.  I guarantee none of you yelling from the bleachers would be so disrespectful in person.

I've always liked this community, which is why I was excited that Blake wanted to make me a vendor here - I've never thought of the tiny v8-swapped-RX7 group as something I can build a business, much less a lifestyle off of, so it's always been more about helping the members than making money (hence most of our stuff sold here was group buy, heavy discounts, etc).  The support I've gotten in return has been great for the most part, and I've made quite a few friends - that being said, if I could trade the current headaches and 'bad press' coming from people who have never given me a $, I'd seriously look into it lol.

I like to handle things like this by discussing the issues, and the people who are actually involved - lots of times there's way more smoke than fire.  We've had delays caused by manufacturers just as often as caused by my shop's workload, but most commonly what we have had is a mismanagement of customer expectations.  I tell someone I can get their parts in a week or so to me, then it takes 10hrs of work, and they expect it to be to their door inside of a week and a half - I haven't had that sort of turnaround in years, to be honest.  This got increasingly bad during the run-up to SEMA 2013 where we spent WAY more time than we should have getting customer cars done and essentially slapped the body panels on my car to push it there, and then got burned on the largest of those customer cars' invoices.  Shop time was so scarce that I had an opportunity to race the 2014 season for free essentially, but couldn't afford the time, but I put customer needs ahead of my own motorsports desires.

As far as money goes, I'm certainly not swimming in income here, but I didn't build my business to "rob Peter to pay Paul" either.  Cash flow is definitely a fluid situation within any business, but customers who pay for things have those parts ordered (and thus paid for)... people that place deposits on harnesses or group buys or whatever always have the option for a refund, but if I've already placed something on special order and the manufacturer has a restocking fee, I'm not in the business of paying for the customer changing their mind.  I've reached out to the last couple people that would like refunds for parts ordered, and have checks ready to go out for all but one (waiting on a mailing address).

A couple of months ago I moved shops down to San Diego, where I have some really interesting engineering work, and a great girlfriend - of the seven cars I took down with me, only a couple are left (the G35 that 'snaketits' posted about is heading back up to him as soon as he gives me a destination), and I hope that with less projects happening concurrently, that my stress level and the aggravation of my customers will go down a ton.  I'm not interested in being anyone's punching bag when trying to do them a favor, and frankly don't care where the community buys their body kits, coilovers, or gauges.  The 'technical sales' portion of the business will move forward, with a better web presence, much smaller parts catalog, and more parts made or stocked by me in San Diego - less shipping/stock hassles, and hopefully with much better communication we can keep customer expectations right on the ball with reality.

I'll try and keep a closer eye on things here, but as with anything else, direct email to me is the only way to guarantee I see something.  Blake, thanks for playing referee here, and I hope that you don't feel that I've done you a disservice (I don't blame, or mind, you pulling Jordan Innovations from the vendor list for reasons well covered by the couple of constructive posts in this thread).  I'm so tempted to post some Big Sean lyrics about karma, but instead, cheers guys, and carry on.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2015, 10:04:59 AM »
Jeff,

To directly respond from my personal position:

I know you're a good guy and I think I know you well enough to be completely sure that you're not purposely setting out to rip anyone off.    I really hate these situations and I hate playing arbiter, it's not really my personality to do so as I generally dislike conflict and trouble.   That said, from a professional perspective, I am really here to represent the forum, hence the discussion.

I would expect that once everything gets sorted out, I'd certainly like to put you back as a vendor if you wish.

-Blake
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline largeorangefont

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2015, 10:06:23 AM »
I guarantee none of you yelling from the bleachers would be so disrespectful in person.

Jeff,

I guarantee that if the people that were yelling from the bleachers were within driving distance of your shop, they would have their parts they paid for, or you would have another series of problems.. legal or otherwise.

I hope you take some of this advice. You need to step back and take a deep breath here and think about this situation. No one wants to hear 14 month old excuses from SEMA season 2013. If you have fallen victim in these situations to customer's unrealistic expectations, that is not the fault of the customer. It is YOUR fault for not appropriately managing their expectations. Communication and accuracy are key here. Yes I know some customers are tough to deal with, but not all of them are.

I was hoping your response would be more apologetic than defensive. I can see how you'd feel defensive after reading all of this, but no one here really has a reason to lie. They just want the stuff they paid you for. When you don't communicate with customers, this is the kind of conjecture that starts.

I think you'd get further at this point by taking it on the chin, apologizing, and resolving some of these issues. Don't fight this to the death.

Quote from: cool
Sell it to spacevomit.  He'll finish it.

Offline halfspec

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2015, 10:29:49 AM »
With all due respect Jeff, continuing to treat norotors / parts business as small potatoes and undeserving of your time / premium service isn't winning you any points here and certainly doesn't serve as consolation or a good explanation for the grievances posted. I can assure you that there are folks here that consider a $50 purchase a 'big' purchase that definitely deserves some attention. If you can't deliver that kind of service for parts orders then frankly you'll be doing us a bigger favor by not offering it vs the frustrations of dealing with a vender that doesn't need the business and will get around to it when the 'big orders' aren't coming in.

You say "I like to handle things like this by discussing the issues, and the people who are actually involved" but that seems to severely contradict personal accounts in this thread and others of you ducking phone calls and ignoring PMs and emails.

Hopefully my comment was one of the "constructive posts" in this thread as I didn't mean it as a personal attack at all. It's only my personal opinion for standards that venders here should be regulated by, including me, and it's not something I would be afraid to repeat or say in person.

I'm of the opinion that if you have multiple customers that haven't been served a month after the sale was made then you should be put on suspension / deactivated and the disputes should be made public. If the vender can get their shit straight with ALL of their customers during a month of probation then bring them back into the fold, otherwise make it perminant. In this case, there are multiple guys in this thread that have had public disputes lasting months that haven't been resolved. Time to take action.

The above is the the absolute minimum standards I would hold myself to and I'm only a guy in buttcrack Mississippi that builds ac stuff for the guys here in his garage. I would hope that if I ever go a month without communicating with one of my customers y'all would toss my ass out. Seriously.

I think issuing refunds and asking the folks here that feel wronged to post about it would go a very looooong way to help your case. Like I said in my post above, I personally would love to have you welcomed back into the fold if you can get this stuff straightend out even if you drop some of your deal/favor items that don't make you any/much money optimize your business to be something you can actually justify your time vs profit margin.

Just my 2 cents  :cheers:
Lane

Offline frijolee

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2015, 02:11:52 PM »
Wow, get busy with stuff and apparently the internet has decided that I've been thieving for years to build my money pit... and not responding to a thread I haven't been emailed about is an admission of guilt?

Jeff,
Statements like this come across as disingenuous.  I already told folks I'd asked you to chime in almost two week ago.  You knew this was here and you ignored it and/or choose to do nothing about it. 



This appears in line with the fact that you've been ignoring a large enough percentage of your customers (after accepting their money) to get this thread started in the first place.  After I went looking, I don't even know how many posts I found with folks complaining about you on social media.  The re-occurring theme is "help me, I can't get a hold of this guy. I've been waiting XX months (or X.X years) and he's ignoring me.  I've asked repeatedly for a refund and gotten silence."

Let me get this right, you have a public credibility problem and your reaction is to go full defensive mode, CLAIM you didn't know this was here, CLAIM you prefer handling issues "one on one", and CLAIM refunds were available at any time?  You sir, are one bold fella.

It doesn't really mater whether the money went to your car, or to your rent, or to food for the table, or for the clothes on your back.  The fact is that you haven't been giving refunds to folks who have asked for them who haven't gotten their goods.  I see that as poor of you.

Dammit Jeff, I've personally vouched for you!  We've helped each other several times.  Ronin has sent you dozens of referrals on wiring.  So when I hear how often you've been burning people...  it makes me angry and I feel like my credibility takes a ding in that I sent folks to see you.  I hope you can make it right, but until I start seeing the story line shift, it appears you deserve being "under fire." 

You need to get ahead of this and soon, I suggest you start by answering the mail and giving refunds to anyone who's asked.

Call me if you want to chat.
-Joel













LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
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Offline largeorangefont

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2015, 02:40:43 PM »
Boom.

That was very professional of you to redact his number Joel.
Quote from: cool
Sell it to spacevomit.  He'll finish it.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2015, 02:54:52 PM »
Ash, I feel that I have 'taken this on the chin' by offering a response and some discourse in this public thread - I've already spoken with the few individuals that have any ongoing stuff, and I literally have nothing to gain except a chance to offer an apology with some explanation.  If I were off to scam people I think I wouldn't bother replying.  I admit there's a personal element when the talk becomes of evil motives and illegal action (with my car being offered up as 'proof'?), neither of which is accurate in the least.

Lane, I didn't mean to pawn NoRotors off as small potatoes, but I totally see how my post last night might have come off that way.  When I talk about small parts sales as something I'm not interested in doing anymore, I don't mean that to indicate a lack of professionalism or attention over the last few years - I built this business by word of mouth and a good reputation, and grew the parts sales on top of that - I never intended to let problems fester or not communicate on small-dollar issues.  Communication issues started when I put a front-office employee in between forums/general email inbox/Facebook/phones and myself, and only a couple of months ago got somewhat under control.  I don't have time to answer the 100+ phone calls and messages that come in some days, especially when most are inquiries about whether some part or another is in stock, and have been balancing back-logged production (which makes people upset) with emails/calls.

To be direct, I have been shipping parts or issuing refunds to those people who ask - when people go through Paypal or a credit card chargeback, that takes the refund process out of my control, and the money is removed from my account without any action on my end. 

Joel, you post a screenshot of our conversation to show, what, that I lied in my above post?  Thanks, man.  What I was referring to is that people let me know there was a thread, but I didn't have a link to this thread (there was another, the original catalyst for all this), and put it on my list of things to check out when I had a couple hours to do it right.  I have prioritized talking with those customers who email me over searching my company name on the internet looking for threads, and didn't make the time to do that until last night.  Additionally, I really don't see my response as 'full defensive' (see above comment to Ash), but maybe that's just me being defensive lol.  In the end, I know you feel slighted because we have met, you have vouched for me, and we have worked together - I feel that I am getting ahead of this by tackling the individual problems and offering some clarity to the community, and hopefully the idea that I'm out burning people (the smoke) will fade quickly after the issues (fire) are 100% resolved. 




Offline wickedrx7

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2015, 03:18:35 PM »
In an effort to move this in a positive direction, let's start a list of who is owed money, parts or car and who was owed refund or parts and has received in the last month. Just so everyone is on same page here.

1)

1993 Touring, 2012 L99, T-56, Ronnin 8.8, Ohlins, Speedhut, Samberg and lots of custom parts
Build Thread - http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19354.0
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Offline largeorangefont

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2015, 04:03:17 PM »
Jeff,

By taking it on the chin I mean take some responsibility publicly by saying something like "We have had challenges over the last year trying to deal with growing the business, and unfortunately I have let our service and communication slip on some of our transactions. I apologize if some of my customers have felt wronged, this was never my intent. We have now relocated and are better positioned to grow and improve our business. Now my goal is restore our customer relationships that have been strained. I will be working to solve customer issues on a one on one basis and hope to win your business back if given a chance."

Aside from the people you are are currently involved in transactions with I think that is all anyone wants to hear. You do great work and I don't think anyone believes your intent is to screw people out of money, but the optics of the scenario don't look great.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:20:12 PM by largeorangefont »
Quote from: cool
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Offline Heavyfoot

Re: Jordan Innovations Issues - Discussion
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2015, 04:56:24 PM »
I don't believe a single word anyone on here is saying besides the man himself, you see...
direct email to me is the only way to guarantee I see something

............

but by him not returning my calls for weeks, and emails, not picking up calls,
and when i have other shops text him, he responds right away. 
Roughly 6 months later I filed a credit card dispute to get my money back. No one would answer my calls, emails, or pm's.
Since then I emailed and PMd  Jeff again a couple of times asking for a refund but he just ignored my messages.
I had issues with Jeff, it took about 7 months to get straightened out.  Just like everyone is saying lots of excuses, to zero contact....
Finally after more weeks of Mike emailing/calling him with no replies...


Ok Ok have you guys tried sending him a tweet on twitter?


But seriously though,

I like to handle things like this by discussing the issues
2 weeks later, and not a single response from him on here. Classy!
not responding to a thread I haven't been emailed about is an admission of guilt?

Jeff knows this thread is here.  I did text him back on the 13th and got a reply within a few minutes thanking me for letting him know. 



Who cares about time, 2 weeks is only 20,160 minutes, besides who can keep up with these things anyway. Joel please direct e-mail the man next time like everyone else has so he can respond in a timely manner. In all honesty though there is allot of ''smoke'' in this thread like the man is saying, I'm just not sure I agree with him that it's coming from the members.