March 15, 2025, 10:30:35 PM

Author Topic: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project  (Read 612630 times)

Offline Exidous

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2925 on: June 21, 2024, 08:54:52 PM »
Holley, "wE makE tUning eAsier. Ve TaBLE fiX itSElf".

Haltech, "We made acceleration enrichment self learning since VE is so easy".
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2926 on: June 28, 2024, 09:32:30 AM »
Fixed my fuel gauge, so that's nice.  :D

I seem to have sorted out the oil in the charge tubes.  The engine bay is nice and clean.   That said, I think my replaced rear main seal is leaking.  Or my oil crossover on the back of the motor.  Either way, that's not super fun to deal with.   It's always something.   Whatever is leaking isn't a huge deal and I can drive the car as is for now, but man, that's frustrating.

Annnnyway, I'm working on the tune.  I have off idle and cruise pretty well dialed.  I'm working on steady state low/medium load in the 3000-4000 range now.  The car has a rich area at 3000, and then comes back into commanded around 4000.   Kinda weird to see the dip in VE at 3000, must be something with harmonics/airflow behavior.    I'm inching up on that though.   

I'm also starting to push into the edge of boost, but right now it goes dead lean right as I hit boost.  Enough so that I thought I was hitting a limiter of some type.  I don't think that's the case now, it just needs a lot more fuel as the airflow spikes up.   Working on that next.   I'll see how it goes with me running the keyboard and might reach out to my tuner sooner than later if that makes more sense.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2927 on: June 28, 2024, 03:09:35 PM »
Update.  Looked under the car quickly at lunch.  GOOD NEWS.   Oil is coming from up/forward on the engine.  It's not the rear main or the rear oil crossover.  So, still leaking oil, but not leaking oil THERE.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline Exidous

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2928 on: June 28, 2024, 08:46:31 PM »
Small wins. Accel enrichment when the boost is ramping in or just a big lean spot on the ve?
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2929 on: June 29, 2024, 10:23:22 AM »
Maybe in the VE.  It does it steady state throttle slowly ramping up to boost, so it's not accel enrichment/transient.  I spent a couple hours messing with the car last night, here's what I've found so far.

I cleaned all the oil off the bottom of the engine.  I definitely had a little coming from the oil level sensor port which I had converted to a banjo for the turbo oil return (when I had turbos with oil).  It seemed to be coming from the plug not the banjo so I flipped it around for now (banjo/plug facing up).   That puts it above the oil level instead of below.  I'll buy a new oil level sensor to plug that hole later, but for now it seems to be dry when I checked it.

I think I might have a little leak from either (or both) the 1/8 NPT plug for my turbo oil pressure regulator return to the pan or the turbo oil pressure feed.   I need to pull the alternator to get better access to these and do a better job of capping them off as there is still a little bit of a line from the oil turbo oil system that I can't reach with the alternator in.  I'll swing back to this as well.

I could not find any obvious oil at the front of the engine (front cover/front main), but I cleaned this all up to make sure I can see better what's going on.  Once all of that was done, I drove the car for about 8-10 minutes and I don't have any engine oil dripping at all, bottom of the pan is dry.  I can feel a tiny bit of oil on the driver side "wing" of the GT500 pan, which is what me thinks the leak is in the old turbo oiling system feed area.   I will put it back up in the air soon and check.  I might also get some UV dye to help trace where it's coming from.

I also seem to have a transmission leak.  It's small, but visible.  I need to check and see if it's actually transmission fluid or if engine oil is just collecting on the exhaust brace that sticks down into the wind on the transmission.  If it's the trans, it's probably the shifter assembly, which is annoying to fix, but not a huge deal.  I don't think it's the rear extension housing or anything by where the fluid is.

Leaks aside, I dug into the tune a bunch more, and did the following:

1. I noticed that the lean spikes correlated to cam timing movements as well as getting into boost.
2. Somewhere along the way I converted the VVT behavior to throttle position vs. RPM instead of fuel load.  Why?  No idea, but that's now how it was with the Elite, so I put that back to how it used to be.   I also fixed bad settings for the VVT solenoid frequency.   I confirmed that cam timing requested vs. actual is MUCH tighter now and the cams are moving more like I expect.
3. "fixing" the cam timing behavior leaned me out everywhere and jacked with my fuel map.   So I pulled over the old fuel map from my Elite (glad I keep those old files around).  This was closer, and after I scaled the whole map up, the car already feels better at low/mid throttle, aside from a small lean "chug" in one area.
4. This also got rid of my weird rich bump (aka drop in VE) at 3000 RPM, VE table looks more like I expect now.
5. I have made zero progress on the behavior at boost yet.  It still goes dead lean as soon as I pass into positive pressure.   I spent about an hour looking through config to find something, nothing apparent.

I did test a few things.  I unhooked the MAP sensor and hit with my air compressor while watching to make sure it went positive pressure (was wondering if it had an issue and wasn't registering boost).  Works great, responds great, not the issue.  I also added another fitting to the intake manifold to run over to the MAP sensor.  It was previously shared with the FPR and BOV.  That shouldn't be an issue in theory, but splitting them will definitely improve response of the MAP and is the better layout.

Finally, I've been digging though the tune in a bunch of areas to dial in the fueling and predictive MAP behavior.  Considering I can't find any real reasons for it puking under boost, I'm going to keep dialing the tune in and see if starts clearing up.   All of this just frustrates me a bit because I had it running really well with the old Elite 2500.   That's what I get for messing with things, haha!  In fairness, these turbos do seem to hit a little harder than the old ones (smaller turbos + larger exhaust housings, I think it's a better matched combo) so that is at least a tiny bit of it.

Oh, and the front suspension feels great.  As soon as I get the car running a little better and fix the last of the leaks I'll hit up a local alignment shop to get it 100%, but I'm very happy with THAT upgrade at least.  :D
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline Exidous

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2930 on: June 30, 2024, 07:06:37 AM »
I've had cars in the past that needed a "table" once positive pressure was reached. Never figured it out. Beat I can figure it was something related to the map sensor not being linear during vacuum to positive transition.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2931 on: June 30, 2024, 09:27:52 AM »
Yeah, the MAP sensor is the other "variable" here, as the Elite 2500 used an internal MAP.   That said, it's a LowDoller MAP and has good paperwork and seems to respond pretty linearly in my testing.

If all else fails, I'll borrow some of the Holy Water Nick puts in his car, haha.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2932 on: July 01, 2024, 04:32:13 PM »
On the "this car leaks fluids" front...

1.  I definitely still have an oil leak.  Still can't find it.  It does eventually drip down to the bottom of the pan.  It is NOT from the back of the motor.   Guess my quick fix didn't fix it.  I did find my old oil level sensor to plug that hole better at least.

2.  My transmission -is- leaking fluid.  I need to find the source of that.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2933 on: July 10, 2024, 09:32:36 PM »
Pulled the alternator and got rid of the oil feed to the old turbos completely.  I had a little "tail" with a plug in it before (because I didn't have a plug to pull it fully).   It's now got an NPT plug directly in the oil relocation plate.  There was a tiny bit of oil on this, but I'm not convinced this was the "real" issue, as this side of the pan was dry.

Pulled the old oil return banjo and it was 100% dripping some oil.  There was oil all over the pan near it, and I can't find any oil above/away from this area.  I installed the old oil level sensor and torqued it properly.  No drips from this so far.  I can't find any oil forward/up on the pan.  The modified section where I have welds is dry, the front/rear main areas are totally dry, and the area forward of the oil sensor is dry.   Hopefully this is the entire leak.

I looked closely at the transmission, I'm still not 1000% sure it's transmission fluid as I run Royal Purple and it's hard to tell the purple from the red transmission fluid, but I think it does have a leak.  It's totally dry on the tailhousing and dry on the upper driver side.   The upper passenger side does has some fluid shine on it, so I'm going to pull the center console and shifter base assembly and reseal it.  I didn't put fresh gasket maker on it last time, and this is literally the only place on the transmission fluid could be coming from to get where it's at.

I also found a small leak at the diff drain plug (needs a new crush washer).   This isn't bad enough that it drips, but it is very slightly damp.  I think my driver side axle seal is leaking very slightly as well.

I swear to god this car refuses to keep fluids inside of it.

Anyway, once the transmission leak is fixed I'll drive it for a while and make sure the front of the car is staying dry.  If so I'll swap the axle seal out (that's a bit of a PITA) and swap the crush washer on the diff drain.   I'm still working on the tuning.  I did move the MAP sensor to its own direct lead off the intake manifold.  That shouldn't have been an issue, but now it's definitely not.

Hoping that's enough to get the car where I want it so I can just drive it and finish tuning.  I will go through and redo the strut braces/EGT mount this winter when the Aston is off the lift, but right now I just want this car in a good, drivable state.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline Cobranut

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2934 on: July 11, 2024, 02:41:39 AM »
Pulled the alternator and got rid of the oil feed to the old turbos completely.  I had a little "tail" with a plug in it before (because I didn't have a plug to pull it fully).   It's now got an NPT plug directly in the oil relocation plate.  There was a tiny bit of oil on this, but I'm not convinced this was the "real" issue, as this side of the pan was dry.

Pulled the old oil return banjo and it was 100% dripping some oil.  There was oil all over the pan near it, and I can't find any oil above/away from this area.  I installed the old oil level sensor and torqued it properly.  No drips from this so far.  I can't find any oil forward/up on the pan.  The modified section where I have welds is dry, the front/rear main areas are totally dry, and the area forward of the oil sensor is dry.   Hopefully this is the entire leak.

I looked closely at the transmission, I'm still not 1000% sure it's transmission fluid as I run Royal Purple and it's hard to tell the purple from the red transmission fluid, but I think it does have a leak.  It's totally dry on the tailhousing and dry on the upper driver side.   The upper passenger side does has some fluid shine on it, so I'm going to pull the center console and shifter base assembly and reseal it.  I didn't put fresh gasket maker on it last time, and this is literally the only place on the transmission fluid could be coming from to get where it's at.

I also found a small leak at the diff drain plug (needs a new crush washer).   This isn't bad enough that it drips, but it is very slightly damp.  I think my driver side axle seal is leaking very slightly as well.

I swear to god this car refuses to keep fluids inside of it.

Anyway, once the transmission leak is fixed I'll drive it for a while and make sure the front of the car is staying dry.  If so I'll swap the axle seal out (that's a bit of a PITA) and swap the crush washer on the diff drain.   I'm still working on the tuning.  I did move the MAP sensor to its own direct lead off the intake manifold.  That shouldn't have been an issue, but now it's definitely not.

Hoping that's enough to get the car where I want it so I can just drive it and finish tuning.  I will go through and redo the strut braces/EGT mount this winter when the Aston is off the lift, but right now I just want this car in a good, drivable state.

Hell, Blake, when you get to be 59 years old you'll probably leak a little fluid now and then as well.  :poke: :D
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.


Offline Cobranut

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2936 on: July 11, 2024, 02:17:52 PM »
Stopped by to see that the top replied / viewed build is a leaky mustang with > 500k views.... on my favorite rx7 forum. What's the world coming to?  :poke:  :yay:

Lane

LMAO  :)
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2937 on: July 11, 2024, 03:18:21 PM »
The guy who runs the forum is a bit self-centered.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2938 on: July 12, 2024, 05:36:54 PM »
On today's episode of "As The Oil Drips" our hero has determined that everything he thought was the problem wasn't.

It's still dripping oil.  I haven't started the car in a week, so I have to think the leak is from below the oil level in the pan.   Dub Tee Eff.

Anywho, I added UV dye to the oil.   I'll clean it everything up (again) and run the car for a bit to mix in the dye well, then start with the UV flashlight.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2939 on: July 12, 2024, 10:23:23 PM »
UV dye FTW!

I have an NPT pipe plug that was filling up the oil oil return.  It looks like that is dripping.  I'll swap it to a new one with a few extra rings of teflon tape on it, and it should be fine.  No other drips anywhere on the pan/engine.    So help me if this thing leaks again I'm just putting an LS in it.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.