March 18, 2025, 11:08:24 PM

Author Topic: Joel's garage build / organization  (Read 99136 times)

Offline Cobranut

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #330 on: April 17, 2020, 10:39:37 PM »
I keep a dehumidifier running during the summer in my garage.  It helps lots to keep mold and rust away.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #331 on: April 17, 2020, 10:50:34 PM »
I keep a dehumidifier running during the summer in my garage.  It helps lots to keep mold and rust away.

Ack...  The workshop isn't remotely sealed so that's challenge.  Electricity is also pricey over here.  Running nothing but lights and a baby de-humdifier in the bathrooms (after showers) we are already sitting at $200-$250 a month.  Maybe if we go solar then I can burn electrons to my heart's content.

Normal in my area seems to be the 70% range or so.  A nice bright day will drop to 60%.  Last night (after an overcast day of drizzly rain) the workshop was at 91% and starting to smell musty.  :angry:  Today was nice so I got it aired out, but still...

If you don't mow your grass for two weeks in springtime around here, your grass will be a foot tall and stall your mower.  Ask me how I know.  Basically had to mow it twice.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline Cobranut

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #332 on: April 18, 2020, 12:50:15 AM »
I keep a dehumidifier running during the summer in my garage.  It helps lots to keep mold and rust away.

Ack...  The workshop isn't remotely sealed so that's challenge.  Electricity is also pricey over here.  Running nothing but lights and a baby de-humdifier in the bathrooms (after showers) we are already sitting at $200-$250 a month.  Maybe if we go solar then I can burn electrons to my heart's content.

Normal in my area seems to be the 70% range or so.  A nice bright day will drop to 60%.  Last night (after an overcast day of drizzly rain) the workshop was at 91% and starting to smell musty.  :angry:  Today was nice so I got it aired out, but still...

If you don't mow your grass for two weeks in springtime around here, your grass will be a foot tall and stall your mower.  Ask me how I know.  Basically had to mow it twice.

Ahh, the price of living in paradise...  LOL

Yep, the building needs to be reasonably tight for the dehumidifier to be effective.
I actually have mine on a timer, which runs it for 3 hours several times a day.  If it runs all the time it sometimes freezes up at night, especially early/late in the year when temps are cooler.

Wow, that is pretty steep for electricity.
What's the energy mix on the island?  Mostly coal or gas, or do they use geothermal, since you basically live on a volcano?
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Tictakman

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #333 on: April 18, 2020, 06:51:20 AM »
lol, I had to learn the same thing when I moved to FL years back.  Looks like you are adjusting well so far.

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #334 on: April 18, 2020, 05:21:39 PM »
Electrical

The handful of contractor friends I’ve made in a year and half on island are all general contractors.  Apparently industrial conduit is a bit of a specific task that most home and resort construction doesn’t require so none of my friends owned conduit benders. 

I tried my structural tubing bender with EMT but without an exact fitting die it just kinked the tube.

You can buy EMT bends in 90s and 45s but the time I added up the bends, I was planning I was 80% of the way to the cost of the tools so I threw down for all three common sizes at Home Depot.  Yay, tools!




Definitely made it nice to do some more creative runs transitioning over the ceiling and such.




Conduit really lets you stroke the OCD…  It’s just pleasant.




You do end up with random wires strewn everywhere though. 




Pulling wire in conduit isn't always easy but I found that I did own one device made for "snaking" around bends in pipe and such. 




For high effort runs you probably want wire lube.  I was able to get it done without.  I did deburr everywhere I cut conduit so I'm sure that helps too.

Thankfully I’ve actually only had to buy a few sticks of EMT and some fittings.  Just about everything else—most of the wire included—came from that mother load of a haul when Millenworks closed a few years ago and we all got laid off.

It’s always surprising to me how much stuff you need…  Table o’ fittings, outlets, boxes, and wire nuts.





Oh, and the HF hydraulic knock out punch set is awesome for fitting both ½ and 1’ conduit in a single box.  They don’t come like that.  I was stoked I picked that up before leaving SoCal.

All my 50 amp circuits use 4 AWG, I technically could have done 6 but I had the 4 and headroom is fine.  For big cable connections, I picked up a bunch of Polaris connectors.  You need one pole per wire so a three way Polaris lets you make a three way T with one wire leg.




It’s also color permissible to change colors of wires, by wrapping the last foot or so in the correctly colored tape.  A variety of my white runs (neutral or second hot leg) are actually black wire with the ends wrapped white.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline cholmes

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #335 on: April 18, 2020, 06:00:44 PM »
An idea for you Joel.
In my shop, I made every wall outlet a 4-socket box; in other words I put two standard dual-socket wall outlets in each box. I assume you have 220V service, each "leg" of that is 110V. In each box I hooked the left side sockets to one 110V leg, and the right side sockets to the other 110V leg.

This gives you twice the 110V amperage capability per box, but it also makes future conversion of any box to a 220V socket really easy. When I moved my mill in, for instance, I went to the nearest 4-socket box, pulled the existing sockets out, and installed a 220V socket using the two 110V legs already in the box. Took about 10 minutes.

You end up running twice as much wire in the conduits, but wire is cheap and you only have to do it once.

I installed my boxes 4' up on the walls, so they'd be above any bench I put along the walls. I installed one box every 4' along the walls. A lot of boxes! I love it, but the 4' spacing was dumb. Conduit comes in 10' sticks, I wish I would have simply cut each stick in half and installed a box at the end of each stick. I wasted a lot of conduit with 4' spacing. Having all those wall boxes has come in really handy.

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #336 on: April 18, 2020, 06:38:10 PM »
Looks like a lotta work!
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #337 on: April 18, 2020, 11:30:22 PM »
In my shop, I made every wall outlet a 4-socket box; in other words I put two standard dual-socket wall outlets in each box. I assume you have 220V service, each "leg" of that is 110V. In each box I hooked the left side sockets to one 110V leg, and the right side sockets to the other 110V leg.

I had kinda the opposite experience.  I wired up a 4 socket box set in the roof having daisy chained off the wiring for my lift.  I went to wire up the breaker and suddenly realized wait a second... the lift is 220v, two hot legs and a ground.  White isn't neutral in this application so I can't daisy chain the sockets like I had them.  No easy way to run a dedicated neutral wire in that conduit either.

Ended up tying into the lights instead, but redoing work always sucks.  On the upside as least I caught my error before anything went live.  Everywhere else the 220v is dedicated.  You don't happen to know if there's a convention about what legs you wire at the sub panel to while you wire at a 3 prong 220v plug?  I don't think it matters but a sanity check is always appreciated.

I'm pretty happy with the 110v spread...  Most of my work was 220v, lights, and everything for the weld table.

Looks like a lotta work!

 :halo:


LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline Cobranut

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #338 on: April 19, 2020, 12:41:22 AM »
In my shop, I made every wall outlet a 4-socket box; in other words I put two standard dual-socket wall outlets in each box. I assume you have 220V service, each "leg" of that is 110V. In each box I hooked the left side sockets to one 110V leg, and the right side sockets to the other 110V leg.

I had kinda the opposite experience.  I wired up a 4 socket box set in the roof having daisy chained off the wiring for my lift.  I went to wire up the breaker and suddenly realized wait a second... the lift is 220v, two hot legs and a ground.  White isn't neutral in this application so I can't daisy chain the sockets like I had them.  No easy way to run a dedicated neutral wire in that conduit either.

Ended up tying into the lights instead, but redoing work always sucks.  On the upside as least I caught my error before anything went live.  Everywhere else the 220v is dedicated.  You don't happen to know if there's a convention about what legs you wire at the sub panel to while you wire at a 3 prong 220v plug?  I don't think it matters but a sanity check is always appreciated.

I'm pretty happy with the 110v spread...  Most of my work was 220v, lights, and everything for the weld table.

Looks like a lotta work!

 :halo:

A 3-prong 240v outlet has no neutral.  Just 2 hots (usually black and red) and a green ground.
I did run a neutral to all my outlet boxes just in case I ever needed 120v, but I put a duplex 120v and a single 240v every 8 feet along the walls, so rarely am I ever far from an outlet.
I did add two 50a outlets, one at each end of the building, so with an extra 25' welder extension cord I can reach any point in the shop with my welder.
I also put in a few ceiling outlets for cord reels/work lights, and added an outlet on one of my lift legs.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #339 on: April 19, 2020, 06:37:41 PM »
Lights…

Odd epiphany but I am SO glad I wrote down all my lighting research last time. 

Research:  https://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=20070.msg269328#msg269328 (post 72)
Implementation:  https://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=20070.msg284557#msg284557 (post 100)

Lumen’s per square fit.  Color temps.  Placement strategy.  I reread my own stuff a couple times in strategizing how to put this together.  Feels good to be damn proud that your past self was so helpful.   You go past self !!!  LOL.

Having a newfound respect for what the green side can do to stuff (and is reputed to do to electronics), I decided I wouldn’t run the stack of free t8 fixtures that my observatory gave away, but rather it was worth the money to throw down for LEDs. 

I was able to match the 4 fixtures already in the workshop (seemingly everything the prior owners bought came from Home Depot so that made it easy).  The existing fixtures are missing the lenses for some unknown reason.  I did talk to Metalux and the lenses are available but they don't sell direct to consumer so I have to get Home Depot to order on my behalf (despite the lens not being the HD system).




I really do need to figure out how to better seal up the workshop.  Getting pretty dusty in there when the wind blows hard (couple farms upwind of us).   All the existing lights needed a pretty serious wipe down.




The hardest opening to seal will be a 2-3” gap at the top of the roll up door.  The rolled up drum is “fatter” in the up position than in the down--material rolls onto the OD of the center drum--so it’s not an easy thing to seal.




Open louvers in a formed metal roof should be easy enough to seal with foam, but the door’s gonna take some effort.  Case in point, this was after a single day of extra heavy wind:




Anyways, these are the lights.  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Metalux-4-ft-32-Watt-Equivalent-White-Low-Profile-Linear-Integrated-LED-Wrap-Light-Fixture-3200-Lumens-4WPLD3140R9/206865058  Home Depot had them for ~$30 per not the $85 crap above (that might have changed my math).

I was glad I went this way though.  I needed fewer lights using the LED and as it was, I spent probably 10 evenings and 4 full day sessions on a ladder getting this all installed.  I spun wire nuts until I had blisters on my thumbs.   Miserable.  I’m sure the pros are way faster than me, but dammit I LIKE being a perfectionist sometimes.

The plan:




10 exposed roof beams, ~4 ft spacing, doubled on roof centerline.  16 total fixtures.  Two circuits hence the 1s and 2s.  The little sketch at the bottom is how I planned out running wires so they’ll cross over and past each other nicely.  Circles and squares for what type of box I'd need where.

-Joel
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 07:04:05 PM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #340 on: April 19, 2020, 07:02:14 PM »
I like those LEDs.   I have a light at the top of my shop bay, 20'+ up there, I think when the bulbs finally die, it's going to be come an LED instead, because man that's not fun to get to.

Really enjoy following along on this build!
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline freeskier7791

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #341 on: April 20, 2020, 11:30:48 AM »
Joel,


What made you sway to these standalone units vs replacing the bulbs in your existing T8 fixtures?  I want to go LED too but would rather do bulbs than new fixtures
https://www.youtube.com/thedriftingdad
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL Drift Car

CCVT

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #342 on: April 20, 2020, 02:50:43 PM »
What made you sway to these standalone units vs replacing the bulbs in your existing T8 fixtures?  I want to go LED too but would rather do bulbs than new fixtures

A few factors:

-The T8 fixtures I had weren't mounted, so I still had a ton of work to get them up in the roof either way.   If they were installed and ready to go the math on cost of labor changes--opportunity cost--and I could easily see doing LED bulbs...

-Form factor...  The free T8 fixtures were pretty bulky, a little rusty and would need to hang on wires rather than directly bolting to my beams (more work to mount).  The dedicated LED fixtures are quite a bit smaller (~cross section ~7x3" instead of ~12x7").  The t8 fixtures have a deep cross section aluminum grate as well, but I given the raised ceilings I wasn't sure I need that and it seemed like it might attract spiders.

-Cost:  I had 4 LED fixtures that I could match--and I liked them (there's actually two more in the garage so I really started with 6).  T8 LED bulb replacements run $10 to $14 a bulb for the things HD carries.  The cost of getting stuff out here limits my options somewhat.  I figure I can sell the other fixtures for $15-20 a piece so that offsets the up front cost of the LED fixtures too.

-They feel a bit more modern and I just like them more which helps my thinking of some of this stuff as an investment.  We're planning to be here through retirement but life happens--I've experienced it happen to me!--and you never know.  Which version might feel better to someone else and convince them to spend more if they were looking to purchase my place?


It looks like brushes might be the solution for sealing my roll up door.




Light install next...
-Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #343 on: April 21, 2020, 02:25:27 AM »
Light Install Notes

The lights themselves were already setup as two circuits with three way switches on both the side door and main roll up door.  I’m keeping that, so my plan was to redoing lights from the first junction box off the panel outward with 8 lights a piece. 

The two circuits let me light either the mechanic side or workshop side individually.  The staggering of light fixtures 2/1/2/1/2 per side helps be sure I have uniform coverage.

However, I also got a bit tricky on the center beams.  Since they are close together I switched light positions for the final beams (IE last set of lights on the north circuit are on the southern of the center beams so I’d have a bit of light on the opposite side even if I’m only working fab stuff that evening.)

To make it work even better, I built up some wedges to aim the fixtures more strongly at the opposite side of the shop.  Since I already had a few of the correct fixtures functional, I could set the angle to just catch the roofline on the far wall without wasting light on the roof. 






End result was rad, but I built this not knowing that it would really work how I hoped.

The light fixtures I’m running are made to install to these baby octagonal j-boxes.  They probably have a name, but I sure I don’t know it.  So… 16 of the octagons.  Plus 6 square (dual gang) pass throughs…  Those mount first. 




Little Giant style ladders are awesome for mounting flexibility but they do get awkward and heavy when you’ve moved it for the 100th time that day. 

Flex conduit came next (because it already had some and it’s easier to service than the hard stuff).  Every sideways flex run had to be measured in place because I wanted them fairly taut.  Cut with the portaband (sometimes while standing on a ladder).  Debur, also on a ladder.  Each side to side run (along the roof beams) gets 2 p-clips to hold in place, most of which I hammer formed since they were for 1” EMT and a bit loose on ¾” flex.

Run wires through all the conduit in space leaving 8” or so hanging on each size.  I’m using 12 AWG for all the main runs and 14 gauge for the branches that terminate at a fixture.




By the way, some folks seem to have heartburn over Romex inside of conduit.  I’m not one of them and in doing some research on permissibility, I found some good chatter here if anyone is interested.
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31149/can-romex-nm-b-be-run-through-conduit.  That was good enough for me…

Oh, I’m doing all of this with the existing lights in stepping stages of removal because half of this is happening late at night.  At least the lights have dedicated breakers so I could use shop lights from the floor to subsidize.




Yeah, then we’re finally ready for the wire nut extravaganza.

Stupid stuff, but I don’t think I posted last time…  Wire nut work, particularly with solid wire is far far easier if you have a set of linesman pliers.  My electrician in SoCal turned me on to them and to be honest--before doing this much work myself--I didn’t really appreciate these as much as I do now.  Wide flat jaws with a mesh grip pattern let you grip 3-4 wires at a time to twist things up.

I found it easiest to strip an inch or so. 




Then twist the wires together as need be (yay for the right tools)




Then cut the bundle off to a more reasonable 3/8 or ½” then go to town with the wire nut.




When you’re doing stranded wire mixed with solid, pre forming the solid against another piece of solid helps the new solid/stranded combo twist more smoothly.

Yes, I’m a dork, but dammit I don’t want to do this again.  The blisters thing wasn’t an exaggeration.




Girls decided my bundles of wire made for a great obstacle course.  They were talking laps around the building heading through the workshop each time.


LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline freeskier7791

Re: Joel's garage build / organization
« Reply #344 on: April 22, 2020, 10:18:12 AM »
Impressive work as always,  Did you consider renting a scissor lift?  I hate going up and down a ladder a hundred times a day
https://www.youtube.com/thedriftingdad
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL Drift Car

CCVT