Need car buying advice from people I trust S2000

[ncaudio]

OK, since someone else asked about a Porsche, I will ask about a potential new add to the collection, a guy I know has a 2003 S2000 with 165K miles on it, he used it as his commuter car and I think he is actually a pretty conservaitve driver since it has the original clutch. It would be a good deal, so this is more of a how do people that are familiar with them like them/dislike them, the car is bone stock, never modified excpet he put in a K&N filter.

I would probalby use this to replace my '91 Miata with 95,000 miles, the upside of the S2000 is of course more power and more refined, downside is lower MPG, no hardtop, higher miles, lower MPG.

The owner got it with 10,000 miles on it and has used Mobile One the whole time and had all regular maintenance done.

What do you guys think of the S2000's, any problem areas besides with stock alignment the rear tires don't last too long.

The Miata is cheap to own and gets 34 hwy, but is noisy and buzzy at highway speeds (geared low)

Any input?

[Speedfab]

They are good cars, far far better than a Miata.  Miata engines are dog shiz, F20s are Swiss watches.  Typical Honda in that they almost never have problems.  That mileage is way up there... I'd only buy it if I knew for a fact it had never been abused.  People seem to beat on S2Ks more than most other Hondas.

[Ebush]

Buy it, and then meet me halfway between NC and OH and buy my hardtop, cage, seats, and LS1/T56 mount kit 

[Spec C]

I would buy it if it is a good deal.  I miss my S. Would love an Lsx S2k.

 It "should" go a while longer pending it has been kept up to date on maintenance, and not beat to shit.  Can he prove all the scheduled maintenance?    Even then the f20 are fairly cheap to replace. 

Hard top is a must though..heh  They are effeminate with soft tops..

[theantirotor]

i dont like s2000's because i dont fit well inside.  they feel a lot more cramped than the miata does.

[Ebush]

i dont like s2000's because i dont fit well inside.  they feel a lot more cramped than the miata does.

Ive only been in one Miata. It was on a test drive and I decided not to buy the car because it was too small inside compared to my s2000. The miata was a 90.

[the owl]

I liked mine when I had it, other than the total lack of tq.... Needless to say I put probably 150 miles on it before I ls swapped it. If you are looking for a commuter/DD I would say go for it.

[ncaudio]

Thanks for the feedback, seriously the car has been taken care of, he uses it as his commuter car, 70 miles a day to work and home, mainly highway. It has the original clurtch and believe it or not it has the original rotors, it would seem like the fronts should need replacing, haven't checked them for thickness, they have just a little judder, but not much. He is a older guy and a conservative driver. He has receipts for the oil filters and changed the oil whenver the dash told him to, always mobile One, the inside of the filler cap and as much of the inside of the engine as I can see look really clean. I think it was one of those where he wanted a fast car, but drove it slow and kept it in the garage at night, now he wants something more comfortable.

Only 2 repairs, replaced the clutch master and slave cylinders and they put a tie wrap on a module. The Owl-yeah, it doesn't thave much push at mid RPM's. Speedfab-you're right, the car is much more refined than my '91 Miata. Ebush-if I get it I'll send you a PM on the top and maybe what else you have for it. 

I know the owner and how he drives, but if I ever want to sell it later with maybe 175K miles on it, who knows what I could get for it, but the Carmax purchase quote was really low.

[Speedfab]

I think it was one of those where he wanted a fast car, but got an S2000 instead.

Fixed.

[Track_FC]

I personally would not buy an S2000 with that many miles mainly due to the fact that it would be very difficult to sell in the future.

I own an S2000 as my daily and from what I've heard from other owners the engines usually go out over 150k.

Unless you're getting it for like $8k, I'd spend a little bit more and get one with lower miles. It's not uncommon to find an AP1 with 60-80k for like $13-15k.

[ncaudio]

I bought the S2000 today, 2003 MY, 166,200 miles, needs rear wheel bearings (Honda didn't tighten the axle nuts enough at the factory, common problem) and rear tires, but it's a nice clean car that has been garage kept at home and at work for the last 10 years and treated well by a conservative driver that mainly used it for commuting (original brakes and clutch!!)  I'll probably sell my Blue '91 Miata so the guys at work can quit harassing me when I drive that car and I don't need 3 convertibles ('88 LS T56 RX7)

I got a pretty good deal on this one, but it is amazing how much S2000's go for even with high miles considering what they cost new (about $32K in '03), probably not as much of a cult car as the FD, but some people really seem to lust after them. It won't be as cheap to keep as the Miata, but it is much more car.

The guy bought a BRZ as his new commuter, nice car, but maybe not quite a nimble as the S2000 and not as good power to weight with a engine that does not rev that high and drops off power a higher RPM's (and sounds kinda blaaah), but a bit more refined with lots of cool options and a LOT quieter when rolling down the road (but replacing noisy rear wheel bearings in the S2000 will help quiet it down)

[MeFryRice]

I've owned two S2K's (both AP2s though) and loved them both.  The only maintenance I had to handle that was outside of the regular service was replacing the timing chain tensioners.  These are rather common to fail and cost ~$120 at the dealer and take all of 5-10 mins to replace.  I sold my second one with ~127k miles, IIRC, for $13k a couple years ago.  The soft top started to wear on the driver side right behind the head.  Honda issued a TSB for certain year models so they were replaced under warranty.

If you don't already know, the 7" diff (same size as the Miatas) are known to break even at stock power level.  This boils down to how the car is driven.  I never had an issue with mine.  Honda added a clutch delay valve in the slave cylinder in the AP2 to help prevent damage to the diff.  If you lower the car significantly, you'll start to feel a vibration under hard acceleration.  This goes back to the CV axles as they will pit the cups.  Most owners will simply flip the cups from left to right and will remove the vibration but now you'll feel the vibration under hard decel.

The 2nd gear syncro in the AP1 transmission is known to wear out so you'll start to feel it grind.  The AP2 transmission is strong but the gear ratios are slightly different being they increased the displacement from 2.0 to 2.2L.

[ncaudio]

I've owned two S2K's (both AP2s though) and loved them both.  The only maintenance I had to handle that was outside of the regular service was replacing the timing chain tensioners.  These are rather common to fail and cost ~$120 at the dealer and take all of 5-10 mins to replace.  I sold my second one with ~127k miles, IIRC, for $13k a couple years ago.  The soft top started to wear on the driver side right behind the head.  Honda issued a TSB for certain year models so they were replaced under warranty.

If you don't already know, the 7" diff (same size as the Miatas) are known to break even at stock power level.  This boils down to how the car is driven.  I never had an issue with mine.  Honda added a clutch delay valve in the slave cylinder in the AP2 to help prevent damage to the diff.  If you lower the car significantly, you'll start to feel a vibration under hard acceleration.  This goes back to the CV axles as they will pit the cups.  Most owners will simply flip the cups from left to right and will remove the vibration but now you'll feel the vibration under hard decel.

The 2nd gear syncro in the AP1 transmission is known to wear out so you'll start to feel it grind.  The AP2 transmission is strong but the gear ratios are slightly different being they increased the displacement from 2.0 to 2.2L.

MFR, Thanks for the info, the clutch master and slave were replaced a while ago (about the only "repair" ever on the car) so it might have a AP2 parts, the transmission shifts good into all gears, so syncros seem good.
I'm starting to read up on S2000's and will see what I can do about the chain tensioner, I don't trust the local dealer too much since the PO sent me this info this morning:


"  My last trip to the Honda dealer (XXXX-park; just down the street) they wanted a bunch of money to replace my 'Stretched timing chain'.
I litteraly asked, "Isn't there a chain tensioner?" they said "No.".
 
Keep your guard up.
 
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/htup_1005_honda_k_series_tensioner/viewall.html
"



Re the CV's, since I am going to have to replace the rear wheel bearings it will be a good time to flip the axles from side to side, do you just pop out the drive flanges and axles outer CV's/ stub axles as a unit and swap them side to side? (assuming the drive flanges are held in with a clip and just pop out). I've been searching on line for info, do you have any recommendations of the best place(s) you've found for technical information/ support, that's mainly what I'm intersted in to do service/longevity upgrades to keep the car pretty much stock (maybe with a few minor performance mods if they give big bang for the buck), I have enough projects in various states of completion.

[MeFryRice]

It's been a while since I've looked at the axles on an S2K but if memory serves right, they simply pop into the diff.  It's an easy job if you're mechanically inclined which I'm assuming you are. Don't waste your money on the axle spacers vendors sell. I've tried them and didn't correct the vibration issue.

Check out S2Ki. It's the largest community and offers a lot of great information, how-tos, etc.

[ncaudio]

It's been a while since I've looked at the axles on an S2K but if memory serves right, they simply pop into the diff.  It's an easy job if you're mechanically inclined which I'm assuming you are. Don't waste your money on the axle spacers vendors sell. I've tried them and didn't correct the vibration issue.

Check out S2Ki. It's the largest community and offers a lot of great information, how-tos, etc.

MFR, thanks, I looked online and the S2000 has inner drive flanges that the inner CV's bolt to so it looks like it's not too much work to swap the axles side to side with also putting some extra CV grease in at the same time. As an alternative, Driveshaft shop (DSS) sells stock style axles complete for $400 a pair.

I've been looking at S2Ki, reasonable technical info, of course not as good as Norotors.