Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)

[Cman]

Hey Joel,

Looks great !

A question...In you cooling post above you mention AC. Unless I missed it there is no prior mention in this thread. Is there any info you can share ? Particularly wiring for AC demand on the FC, but anything else would be great too.

[frijolee]

Looks like I missed one.  I took some pictures and had a write up going at one point before the job switch but it looks like I never posted it.  Let me see if can track that down.  Actually my new radiator's larger end tanks are going to force me to redo the condensor mounting so I have a little work to do on the AC system regardless.  I'm going to get the car back up and running and then put the AC back on.

-Joel

[frijolee]

A/C 1.0 Placeholder

[frijolee]

Fuel System 2.0

The details of this round of the project have been in work for a while.  Tribal knowledge around here seemed to say that a good size stroker motor could run into trouble with inadequate sizing of the fuel lines.  I didn't want to risk that and I wanted to plumb a system I could be proud of.  I did quite a bit of reading before I settled on a -8 feed and -6 return.

The best fuel system design thread I’m aware of is here:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=3414.0
A big thank you to anyone who helped me with my myriad of questions in the above.

A few handy links (also from the fuel thread)…  Line sizing goals/logic:
http://www.lmengines.com/fuel_lines

A nice line sizing calculator is available here:
http://www.lmengines.com/fuel_lines_calc

Between the above and the Aeromotive example systems (Mine is based on the 700 hp NA version):
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/09Aeromotive_EFI_PowerPlanner.pdf

I decided to run -8 feed through two rails in series (pretend it’s an inline 8 cylinder), then to my FPR, and then a -6 return.  On the return side I decided that a bit of pressure drop did matter I don’t care what the pressure is in that line so long as it’s flowing OK and not cavitating.  Provided I point the in-tank outlet away from the pickup, I should be fine.  Staggering the line sizes also makes it easier to remember which is which.  The Fast/Aeromotive rails use ORB-8 provisions at each end by default, and the return from the FPR is ORB-6 so all that matches as well.

Starting at the pickup the system goes:

• Walbro 400-854 install kit (assuming this is correct I need to verify it’s the same filter pickup as my current 255 LPH pump)
• Walbro 400 LPH fuel pump
• 3/8” ID submersible hose w/ fuel line clamps (they tell me that fuel injection hose for in-tank use is different to resist gas externally so careful on that score, props to Speedfab for the Walbro outlet measurements!)
• 3/8 hose barb to AN-8 female coupling
• AN-8 male to AN-8 male 90 deg bulkhead fitting (I had to order the nut separately)
• AN-8 female to AN-8 braided hose connection (straight)
• AN-8 braided hose
• AN-8 braided hose connector to AN-8 female (straight)
• AN-8 male to male coupling
• AN-8 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• 1/2” OD stainless hard line under the car (seamless 0.035” wall, 304 SS)
• AN-8 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• AN-8 male to ORB-10 coupler
• Aeromotive 12301 fuel filter (10 micron).  You could also run a 12336 if you want a billet bracket too.
• ORB-10 to AN-8 male coupler
• AN-8 female to AN-8 hose connector (straight)
• AN-8 braided hose
• AN-8 hose connector to AN-8 female (90 deg)
• AN-8 male to ORB-8 coupler

Note both end of the Fast/Aeromotive rails (p/n FAST 146032–KIT) have ORB-8  provisions, however if you buy the kit, it comes with 2x ORB-8 to AN-8 male couplers, and 2x ORB-8 to AN-6 male couplers.  I never could find specs on that so now you know.  The later were no good to me and I had to get two more -8 to -8.  Continuing on…

• Fast/Aeromotive fuel rail 1, (my passenger side)
• ORB -8 to AN -8 male coupler
• AN-8 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• 1/2" OD stainless hard line (fuel rail crossover)
• AN-8 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• AN-8 male to ORB-8 coupler
• Fast/Aeromotive fuel rail 2, (my driver side)
• ORB -8 to AN-8 male coupler
• AN-8 female to AN-8 hose connector (90 deg)
• AN-8 braided hose
• AN-8 hose connector to AN-8 female (straight)
• AN-8 male to ORB-10 coupler
• Fuel Pressure Regulator – Aeromotive 13101
• Fuel Pressure Gauge – Aeromotive 15633
• ORB-10 plug (for the not used side of the FPR)
• ORB-6 to AN-6 male coupler (output for the return)
• AN-6 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• 3/8” OD stainless hardline (back under the car, also seamless 0.035 wall, 304 SS)
• AN-6 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• AN-6 male to AN-6 male coupler
• AN-6 female to AN-6 hose connector (straight)
• AN-6 braided hose
• AN-6 hose connector to AN-6 female
• AN-6 male to AN-6 male 90 deg bulkhead fitting (again make sure you get the nut)
• AN-6 female tube nut w/ sleeve
• 3/8” hardline to plumb the return down to near the bottom of the tank.

The fittings are XRP and were bought by a friend with an account at a local dealer.  Hard lines came as 20’ sticks from Tube Services, each main run under the car is a little shy of 10’ but I used extra for the cross over.  All the big parts were ordered through Summit, and there was one price match I had them do that was worth a chunk of change: fuel pump.  I think this store had it priced wrong http://store.propartsusa.com/i-498529.aspx as it used to be 95.06 (as of this writing they have it listed at $154.44) and Summit matched it for me.  ;-)

Oh and since we’re on the topic I’ll be running 60 lb/hr fuel injectors to go with the above.  Boring post, but hopefully it helps someone.

[frijolee]

Fuel Hard Lines

All my hardline is 304 seamless stainless in 0.035 wall. 

Line fab:






No magic here other than starting with a template bent from welding rod.  We basically went in and out of the car at just about every bend (some bends several times if I had to tweak something).  An extra set of hands is a huge help.



I think I probably had this in and out 50 times all things considered.  I’m guessing 30 or so with Anthony and another 20 getting everything to work with the hangers perfectly.

Getting reading to make the ends:



Terminations use tube nuts with flared fittings. 



One bonus of going with the 1/2 and 3/8” OD (effectively the -8 / -6 combo) is that it lets me retain my stock fuel line hangers.  I effectively just carved  out the middle divider. 



And here it is installed..

Rear section



Under the car (nice and straight)



Note: I’m not really worried about chaffing between lines but I’ll keep an eye on it.  If anyone has thoughts on simple (and thin) padding I could run that would be helpful.

Wrapping up the frame rail


View from up top

[frijolee]

Fuel Filter / Fuel Pressure Regulator

Engine bay is a little crowded by the master cylinders so I had to figure out where I was going to put the fuel filter on the input side of the rails and the fuel pressure regulator on the output side.  In both cases I was planning on running these items with hard line on one side and braided line on the other.

Fuel filter was pretty easy.  There were already two nice inserts on the firewall in a good location.  The 1/2” hardline ducks under the steering rack and then pops up between clutch and brake master cylinders.

This is basically the same shot from above except with the addition of 65imp's foam mock up block to check space remaining for the exhaust.


Padded stainless steel clamps are from McMaster.  Aeromotive sells a billet clamp but I didn't need the weight and I wanted a little compliance to the mount.

Fuel Pressure regulator was a little harder to solve.   Placement against the shock tower seemed to fit the below while allowing enough clearance from below for the hard line to stub up (that’s not the case just below the fender line) but the shock tower had a curve and elevation change I’d have to deal with.




 I ended up mounting it there anyways with a little custom bracketry.  Started with a chunk of 0.063 stainless.  Band sawed, bent, drilled, and sanded my way into something serviceable.  OEM on the left, mine on the right.




It has bends for the OEM jog as well as a horizontal bend to account for the curvature of the shock tower in a location far enough inboard to let me stub up the 3/8” hard line from below. 

Final fit check…



Drilling holes for riv nuts in the top of the shock tower was interesting.  I borrowed a 90 deg drill from harbor freight and used a cut down drill bit to let me punch a pilot hole (one spot still had to be center punched about a dozen times to get the bit not to wander at a slight off angle). 




From there, I disconnected the swaybar and dropped out the strut so I could drill it with a full size bit from inside the wheel well.

Painted the raw steel and added a couple m6 riv nuts.  Installed.  Done and done.

[frijolee]

Fuel Rail Bracket Problems

As I mentioned in the parts list, I’m running FAST/Aeromotive fuel rail kit (p/n FAST 146032–KIT).  There are several different kits depending on which FAST intake manifold and injector combo you’re running.  My injectors are LS1 style (2.5” between top and bottom o-rings).

The problem was that the supplied brackets were far too long and I was afraid the rails were going to leak. 



Note how raised the rail would be if I mated to the hole…



The more I look at aftermarket rails, the more impressed I am with the OEM design that has clips to hold the injectors in place.

Anyways, I already had the parts and they do look really nice.  I assume they can be made to run safely if I’m careful.  I can’t entirely blame FAST as I don’t know for sure whether my particular injectors might be on the short side.  O-ring to o-ring measure correct per FAST tech support but maybe the body where it bottoms out is different.  Easiest solution was to rebuild my own brackets. 



Just one more of those little things that you spend two evenings doing to get right.  The details seem to take so much longer with little kids in the house (but I wouldn’t trade them for the world).

[frijolee]

Keep It Clean

I’ll have to come back to fuel when I do the in-tank bits.  In the meantime, I’ve been getting a bunch of other parts ready for install.  I’ve been quite enjoying use of a kick-ass sand blaster with super fine media at my work.

Case in point…  Here’s a couple 8.8 diffs straight from the wrecking yard (I picked up and then sold an extra).  My housing is on the left.



After power wash



After sand blast (masking all the bits that counts)



I’m then hitting all my parts with clear engine enamel so they’ll be easier to wipe down later.  They kind of take on a more uniform grey when after clear coat instead of the “white metal” look but I still like it.



Valve covers are getting the same treatment but first I wanted to eliminate one of the bosses.  Now you see it.



Now you don’t.



Crappy pic, but I also shaved off all the casting flash marks around the edges.



I’m doing most of my accessories this way.  Same take some more creative masking than others.



Need to take some finished pictures but it’s looking good and gives quite a few pieces in the engine bay a uniform “themed” look to them and yet it should be easy to touch up if I ever need to.

[frijolee]

Nick Williams/Fast 102 clearancing

I’m going to be running a NW cable throttle body and Fast 102 intake manifold.  DanZan came over the other day and was helping me wrench so as a quick check we pulled my hood out of the rafters and threw it one.  Conflicts looked like they’d be:

-Fuel hard line cross over (going to have to redo it.)
-Raised lettering on the FAST (shave the lettering then build up and carve my hood slightly)
-Tip of throttle body above the idle are control valve.

Here’s what the NW 102 looks like stock (note the big radius up top).



Had a few lunch hours free so I set up and milled some of the meat off.



Next day, hand carved the radiuses into the edges and buffed it out on a rubberized grinding wheel.  Think I gained about a 1/4" of clearance at the TB doing this.



By the way, got the engine mounted this past weekend.  More detail on that shortly.  Thought folks might like a look at the overall since I’m following up on the cleaning post.



It's starting to look like a car again...

[ALLslowNOshow]

Where did you get the 1/2" hard line? Lately I've been wanting to do something similar one day.

One thing that would worry me is the possibility of the lines chaffing, maybe you could get away with running the lines through some heat shrink along the length of each hard line.

[frijolee]

Hard line came from Tube Service Co. (www.tubeservice.com)

That place was huge.  The automatic tube sorter was pretty awesome.  Check the guy in the background for an idea of scale.



I strapped the two twenty foot sticks to the outside of my Jeep at the door handles, hatch and hood, and then drove home like I was jousting.

[frijolee]

Monster Clutch 11” Stage 4 Long(ish) Term Review”

While I was putting things back together I reinstalled my clutch. 

As a reminder, I’d been running a Monster 11” single disk, with the sintered iron clutch pucks.  I decided on this clutch because of Monster’s positive reviews, it had very little dust and all the organic friction material clutches I’d ever run killed slave cylinders.  Well it solved that problem.  It had plenty of grab, effort was heavy-ish but fine.  The downside was that this clutch was still pretty nasty in stop and go traffic and it never really got past the “break in” chatter.  Every now and then I would still do the amateur move with the bucking car (which makes you feel super good about your driving abilities let me tell you.)

I had only run this for about ~5,000 miles, but I was happy enough with its behavior to not be worth dropping the big money on a good twin disk (the RPS carbon carbon billet is what I think I want).

Turn out minimal dust is not the same as dust free:


The bigger issue is that I noticed that the pucks had worn to the point the rivet heads were just starting to rub.  This thing only had 5,000 miles on it.  Not too far from the verbiage Monster insults on their website:

“in the end we bring it to you, the consumer, the guys and gals out there spending hard earned money of your own to get every single ounce out of your six speed car! Hoping that, “this is it; this is the last clutch I’m gonna have to buy for a while.” I’ve heard it time and time again, “I put a -brand x- clutch in my car and it only lasted 2,000 miles, when I called them they said I installed it wrong and don’t want to help out!”

http://www.monsterclutches.com/shop/index.php/about/?___store=default

So when I call them they tell me, “yeah, 5k miles?  That’s normal for a sintered iron clutch.  Great.  Thanks guys.  The problem is that they simple didn’t give users much margin to work with.

Compare the warn and unworn surfaces of the old friction disk:




0.023” of wear per side isn’t much particular given the surface comes rough and had to break in in the first place.  Anyways, after enquiring what I could do about it I decided to give them one more try and sample the ceramic friction disk.  It’s supposed to chatter a bit less and last a bit longer (20k miles was thrown out on the phone but we’ll see).



Brismo7 helped me get that aligned and in.  We found a few more stripped threads where the bellhousing and oil pan mate but a few helicoils solved that right quick.  Steve had a great suggestion of setting the trans on a workbench and using the engine hoist to adjust the alignment of the engine dangling in the air.  This went a great deal smoother than the last time I tried doing this under the car (where-in much sailor-ish language occurred).

[Bowtie7]

Check out the Mcleod twin disc Joel. I installed it in Russ's beast and it is by far the nicest performance setup I have installed. Street/stock feel and all the grab you can handle.

[frijolee]

I've heard good things about the McCleod from several folks.  That said, I just don't really trust any organic disc after going through my string of 4 dead slave cylinders.  If this can't hang I'll call you in a year to get the update report on how it's behaving long run.  A new disk was only about $200 so it wasn't a huge investment to give the Monster one more chance. It's not perfect, but it's not bad either.

Also my experience with McCleod is somewhat colored by the last McCleod twin I ran (they're no longer the same I know).  There's quite a bit of discussion about the three finger "long style" via diaphragm style in Jose's thread starting around post 70.  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=11174.msg188590#msg188590

[frijolee]

Anyone have any good long term reviews of mutli disc clutches?  I loved the ability to rev with the lightweight small stuff, but I also have a street car so it can't be a light switch of engagement.

Maybe what I need to do is to figure a better slave cylinder (quarter master or whatever) that can handle the dust.