Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)

[Galaxysi1234]

i just finished reading this thread and it is truely an inspiration! thank you!

[frijolee]

My motor needs to come out for some of the changes above.  I'm toying with the idea of mo' power.  Goals: keep it happy on 91 octane.  Let it live on the street but track it occasionally.  Minimize effort and cost (lets say 7k budget for the sake of argument).

Possible routes:
-440 stroker...  Probably from ERL.  Could go 454 too but the last bit is pure stroke and I'd like to let this spin.  Let's me re-use the most stuff.  Roughly limited to about 600 whp.  I already have a 243/252 cam sitting on the shelf that would be near perfect.  Gets easy to blow the budget if I do matched heads, a new intake manifold, and step up a size on headers (actually 7k might be low for any of these routes given fuel and supporting mods). 

-Whipple twin screw blower.  I love the efficiency of the twin screw design.  I love the flexibilty of the flat torque curve.  They have kits close enough to let me keep most of my intake tract.  Would need to bulge my hood but that's do-able particularly since I'm switching over to a Ronin cowl hood so it'd be easier to glass in.  Heat might be an issue.  Might want to add forged pistons/rods so I could control compression ratio.  Traction control would like be in my future.  Note: I'm not particularly interested in centrifigal blowers.  I'd do a turbo first.

-Smaller than you nutters run single turbo with the goal of the broadest torque curve possible.  Not sure what this does to driveability on track (didn't like that with some past turbo cars).  Do-able but it just sounds like A LOT of work since it'd kill me not to build headers for it.  Probably screws up my AC.  Again might need to do some bottom end work.  I'm guessing either of the FI routes will offer greater power than the stroker, but in either case heat might be an issue and I like the simplicity of NA.

Bonus route: screw all of the above and blow the budget on tires, track days, ABS and Traction control, maybe a dry sump.  Add the above later.

Thoughts from the forum?  I really debated not saying anything and just pulling the trigger on the stroker but decided it was too important to get opinions from the car guys I trust.

[spacevomit]

Twin screw (although a turbo would also potentially give up nothing to this IMO).

[digitalsolo]

Honestly, stroker is probably the best for a track car.

A Whipple would be better than a turbo if you want to keep A/C.  No A2W in front of the radiator to fight with on cooling, and you could keep the boost pretty low.   Your overall heat rejection shouldn't be dramatically different from an N/A engine at the same horsepower either.    Instant torque is REALLY fun to drive too.   They are hard on drivetrain components and will want to make you get spinny pretty easily.

If you want to go all "pure track" and dump A/C and get silly up front you can certainly fit all the cooling and such that a turbo needs, but I just don't see that happening with A/C.   If I wanted to build a track car with a turbo V8, I'd cut the frame rails forward of the subframe and get tubular up there.   Lots more room for goodies then.   Well within your capabilities too, but mondo work.

Stroker = keep all your current ancillary systems.   The other options will nickel and dime you to death there, particularly in track worthy cooling of systems.

[65imp]

Joel,
Quit pu$$y-footing around and twincharge it.  Sheesh, we need to get more engineering up in Heeeaaaar! 

[bergls1]

The "sleeved" cubic inch route is what I'd like to do...same weight and complexity. I'm sure there would be other bugs to work out, but certainly less than if you put pressure to it. Most of you guys are alot smarter with this stuff than I am though....my car has been down for 2 weeks doing a shift knob change!

[spacevomit]

Honestly, stroker is probably the best for a track car.

A Whipple would be better than a turbo if you want to keep A/C.  No A2W in front of the radiator to fight with on cooling, and you could keep the boost pretty low.   Your overall heat rejection shouldn't be dramatically different from an N/A engine at the same horsepower either.    Instant torque is REALLY fun to drive too.   They are hard on drivetrain components and will want to make you get spinny pretty easily.

If you want to go all "pure track" and dump A/C and get silly up front you can certainly fit all the cooling and such that a turbo needs, but I just don't see that happening with A/C.   If I wanted to build a track car with a turbo V8, I'd cut the frame rails forward of the subframe and get tubular up there.   Lots more room for goodies then.   Well within your capabilities too, but mondo work.

Stroker = keep all your current ancillary systems.   The other options will nickel and dime you to death there, particularly in track worthy cooling of systems.

Yeah, then he could always add a power adder later if he wanted more power.

[frijolee]

So it sounds like if I want to keep AC, turbo is likely off the table.

With the whipple, the temptation is going to be to tear into the bottom end anyways to add some forged components.  I'm guessing that's 2k with a clean up hone and new bearings (somebody spot check me if I'm off).  Hood bulging sounds a bit painful.

Found an interesting local resource who seems to have quite a few folks like his work with Darton MID sleeves.  (Mike, who'd you use again?)
http://www.raceenginedevelopment.com/pages/694927/index.htm

Actually just gave him a call.  For reference he recommended a 434, 4.155" bore (leaves .030 for cleanup / future hone if something goes wrong) 4" stroke.  Did say that my heads will hold me back. 

[65imp]

Steve at RED is the go to guy on sleeved stuff.  Everyone I spoke to about it speaks very highly of him if it comes to a sleeved block. 
I think the guy to talk to is whoever you decide to build the engine for you, whether it is ERL, Koenig, or the norcal armada's go to guy Dave.  They can tell you how much for each step of the way.  You get to decide if you keep some of your stuff, or go full longblock from them.

I kinda like the big inches thing myself, then you can chose to build more as time goes on. 

[Sho Amo]

I vote for bigger cubes. I am really liking the simplicity of an NA setup, especially since it gets driven alot. It will also allow you to use most parts you already have.

[frijolee]

Y'all seem to like the thought of having a few more inches than the next guy huh?   




Yeah, me too... 

[Sho Amo]

Lol who doesnt, isnt that what its all about?

[frijolee]

Figured it was time to light a fire under my ass and get moving.   I had debated not posting anything until I was done this time because it would be fun to surprise folks with a *hopefully* healthy dyno chart,  but…  posting regularly is a motivator for me and I enjoy following along on some other folks build threads so I figured why not.

If you read the above you know I’d had been debating heavily what, if anything, I should do with my car.   Hanging out with 65imp too much is dangerous because you start to get all kinds of bad ideas.  I was really eyeballing Whipples seriously for a while there but in the end, I’m glad I didn’t.  Although the Gen5 Camaro piece is mighty close I finally got to look at a few up close at the LS Series Shootout .   As best I can eyeball they’re about 4” taller than a stock LS3 manifold. 

Whipple (I believe it’s the 2.9L kit)

Stock


Definitely more than enough to force you to do some crazy things with the hood.  Plus I keep hearing how hard they are to keep cool on the track and I do enjoy running around out there every now and then.

Since my family and I moved mid April my RX-7 has just been sitting.  The Volvo fan blade decided to shear off at the hub and I didn’t want to buy a new one since I was planning on upgrading anyways.  Since then almost all my free time has been going into setting up the new place, throwing myself into a new job, hanging with my girls, and keeping Ronin moving forward.

There at least has been a little progress.  The car’s up on jackstands and the teardown is underway.  In the meantime, I always wanted to post a few pictures like this…  Any unknowns in my pile?  :-)





Other than my wiring being done this is going to be a fairly comprehensive build… I’m just about starting over with my chassis.

-Joel

[N2v8fcs]

 that's a lot of upgrade parts...good luck!

[frijolee]

Thanks Robert...  You know something about stacks of parts yourself.




Coffee Table

I’ve been trying to get the new garage set up for maximum functionality.  I’ve upgraded a few bigger tools, set up industrial shelving and reorganized a few times.  One thing I just couldn’t seem to find a home for…  I had held onto my blown engine block from my original build (complete with holes in both sides) because I’ve been threatening to turn it into furniture forever. 

Then I stumbled across a nice piece of tempered beveled glass at a garage sale (technically it already had a base but it was this strange Greco Roman looking thing).  Picked that up for $30.  Since I was tripping over the block in the garage I decided to fast track the project and make it actually happen. 

Since the glass was a large rectangle and since I still had the blown cam and crank as well, I decided to try something a bit like an exploded engine view with the heads shifted over and cam/crank flipped around and hanging out the front.  Then I added in a spare set of 98 heads (just about worth nothing).  I figure it weighs a little north of 300 lbs all told.

I’ve seen quite a few engine block coffee tables but none in this configuration.  I spent quite a bit of time cleaning and then clear coated all the bits prior to assembly so hopefully it’ll stay nice for a long time. 



I dig the fact you see the one blackened journal and the windows in both sides of the block.   









Glass is padded with some clear tubing along the edge of the heads and the whole thing is bolted to a welded frame I scratch built.   The ends hang over so two dudes can carry it, a la “Ark of the Covenant” style.



Yes, it’s in the living room and yes my wife loves me.   

-Joel