March 16, 2025, 04:26:48 PM

Author Topic: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)  (Read 179008 times)

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #600 on: April 04, 2017, 10:21:05 AM »
As far as I know there really aren’t any decent/cheap HI-Z injectors over 80lb until you got to the Bosch CNG 210’s. If you run E85 these work great IMO. I’ve tuned 3 cars with them now.  But you’re really stuck spending decent money if you want something in between 80’s and 210’s in a HI-Z. The newish HI-Z CNG 160’s have a plastic pintle that will get stuck as the engine/injector heats up. The 210’s use a SS pintle are have a good track record.

The 210’s are $56 each shipped straight from the Bosch plant in Latvia. So $450 ish for a set of 8.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-Gas-Petrol-Methanol-210lb-2200cc-High-Impedance-Fuel-Injector-0280158821-/192147270588?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

Offline screamin88

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #601 on: April 04, 2017, 12:32:14 PM »
Yeah that's also what I've found. So the 210s did well with oem ecu? I'll spend whatever I need to, and I figured 210s would just be a little overkill. I will be running e85/flex and I'll be running a SBE L33 LJMS stage 2 for now. I guess those injectors will allow for overhead when I eventually get some pistons and rods and decide to turn it up with this Billet S476.

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #602 on: April 04, 2017, 01:06:48 PM »
I’ve never used an OEM ECU, no help there. They idled great on E85 with the MS3. We had issues getting the pulse width low enough to idle them on pump gas. Similar to the issues I’m having with the 160’s.  Though I’m hearing others are doing it with the Holley ECU no problem.   :scratch:

Offline zbrown

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #603 on: April 05, 2017, 08:34:36 AM »
The aem box is your issue.  I'd move to an ecu that has the proper driver or move to a high Z. Or I guess just live with it lol
8.50/165



Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #604 on: April 05, 2017, 09:14:16 AM »
With the description on the AEM box you’d think it would open the injectors faster than a HI-Z injector could?  Says it dumps 4.1a in initially to get the injector open fast and then tapers off to 1.1A. Wouldn’t this mean it would be faster than most injector drivers? I’m wondering if my MS3 integration with this box is somehow hindering it’s performance. Maybe not allowing it to work as it’s supposed to?

Quote
AEM external Peak & Hold Injector Driver module allows ECU's that have a saturated injector drive circuit to trigger low impedance injectors with a true 4/1 Peak & Hold injector drive circuit. Each channel supplies full battery voltage to a fuel injector for rapid current rise, in order to produce positive injector opening. When load current reaches 4.1A (amps), the injector driver reduces the load current to 1.1A and operates as a constant current source. This condition holds the injector open, and reduces system power dissipation. If the current fails to reach 4.1A within 5mS, the driver module automatically reduces the load current to 1.1A

Had this issue for 6 years or so now with these injectors on a few engines. Suppose I can live with it. Can’t really justify the cost of new injectors so I can have a cooler sounding idle.     

Offline shainiac

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #605 on: April 05, 2017, 10:24:19 AM »
Here's a good deal on the 210lb injectors that's located in the states:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Genuine-Bosch-210lb-2200cc-210-fuel-injectors-BMW-Dodge-Ford-Chevrolet-GM-/282316604057?hash=item41bb618299:g:GFcAAOSw2xRYbx8H&vxp=mtr

I've heard issues about shipping the Latvian or Panamanian injectors and long delays.
If you email the above seller directly at <polmaxracing@gmail.com> and tell him you want the Sloppy Mechanics special on 8x 210lb injectors, they're only $480+$6 shipping. I bought a set and got them in 2 days. 3 other friends have had the same experience. The one friend who actually has his car running said he's able to idle his 4.8L at 900rpm and 14.7:1 on pump gas. I also ran these same injectors in my rotary car and made 540whp on pump gas/water injection. at like 50% DC lol. They are the best bargain for injectors out there.
'88 TII -  Rods/Pistons LS3, Twin G30-770s, MaxxECU Pro/PDM
BMW DCT Swap, Ronin 8.8" IRS

Offline Burntz

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #606 on: April 10, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »
damn, probably gonna list my siemens dekas for sale and buy those now.
2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel - Cross country work machine. Deleted and tuned. 50mpg+
1999 Chevy Corvette - LG 1-3/4" Longtubes & H Pipe. Forgeline GA3's, H/C/I soon. Road course car.
1979 Mazda Rx7 - 5.3L / TH350 / 8.8" / Turbo. Ms3-Pro, E85.
PB Currently 5.97 @ 118  - 1/8 mi

Build thread ->http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=7441.0

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #607 on: April 10, 2017, 12:11:59 PM »
It might just be a ploy to get out of covering warranty injectors… But Bosch released a statement stating specifically that the elastomers used in their CNG injectors is not meant for any liquid fuels. Specifically E85, methanol, or “pump” gas. They say the elastomers swell and cause erratic fuel flows.

That said I’ve tuned these on a couple cars now and I know paradise racing has used them on straight methanol for years on their track cars. No reliability issues I’m aware of. I even had my used 210 injectors flow tested and they were all great.   

Think this link works...

https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16405&d=1392663104

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #608 on: April 10, 2017, 12:20:18 PM »
Got a little street tuning done. Seeing about 22psi of back pressure at 20 intake (post IC). Engine is pretty doggy below 4800 or so. Only seeing 155-160 cold cranking compression. Which seems off, but is right on par with the last 4.8 I put together. Think it would really benefit advancing the cam 3-5*, but we'll see how it does at the track before tearing into it again. Last 4.8 went low 9's at 19lbs. This feels slower, but hard to tell on the street.

Offline Burntz

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #609 on: April 10, 2017, 12:52:39 PM »
Any idea what type of elastomer they used in them? Have been searching with no luck.
2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel - Cross country work machine. Deleted and tuned. 50mpg+
1999 Chevy Corvette - LG 1-3/4" Longtubes & H Pipe. Forgeline GA3's, H/C/I soon. Road course car.
1979 Mazda Rx7 - 5.3L / TH350 / 8.8" / Turbo. Ms3-Pro, E85.
PB Currently 5.97 @ 118  - 1/8 mi

Build thread ->http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=7441.0

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #610 on: April 10, 2017, 01:14:18 PM »
Sure don’t. Let us know if you find it.

Offline Burntz

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #611 on: April 10, 2017, 03:47:10 PM »
i guess they dont release specs whatsoever on non fuel injectors.

Commonly Used CNG/LNG/LPG Elastomers:

Nitriles (NBR) - listed as compatible with e85, listed as "good" chemical resistance to e85 but commonly seen to suffer failures from prolonged e85 use.


Saturated nitriles (HNBR) basically NBR with better temperature properties. Should hold up to e85 but wouldn't put thousands of miles on it.


Fluorocarbons (Viton and other FKM’s) - 100% compatible with e85, 
http://www.applerubber.com/hot-topics-for-engineers/effects-of-methanol-on-rubber-elastomers/
91% swell with methanol for dipolymer FKMs ... so no
1% swell with viton. Viton is common so would be perf for methanol.


Fluorosilicones - compatible with e85, methanol, jet fuel, everything.
Quote
In the automotive market, fluorosilicones are the seal material of choice for handling gasoline, E85, diesel fuel, biodiesel, and ULSD at extremely low temperatures. In the aerospace industry, fluorosilicones are used for handling jet fuel on commercial, military, and all general types of aviation aircrafts. The materials are also being used in sealing fire-resistant synthetic hydrocarbon hydraulic fluids in static applications, especially those used at low temperatures

5% swell with methanol.


Sounds like the 160's used some low grade elastomers and they get updated to something like listed above, which means there is a damn good chance they're perfectly fine with e85, and most likely with methanol as well (esp if only used briefly on a track day)
2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel - Cross country work machine. Deleted and tuned. 50mpg+
1999 Chevy Corvette - LG 1-3/4" Longtubes & H Pipe. Forgeline GA3's, H/C/I soon. Road course car.
1979 Mazda Rx7 - 5.3L / TH350 / 8.8" / Turbo. Ms3-Pro, E85.
PB Currently 5.97 @ 118  - 1/8 mi

Build thread ->http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=7441.0

Offline forcefed86

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #612 on: October 22, 2018, 08:29:19 AM »
Rx-7 is still alive and kicking....

4.8 will spool the big S480 just fine. Even with the super tight 14 stator PTC converter.  :drive:

Been raining a lot here so most of the events have been cancelled. Our local 1/4 track was closed this weekend so a friend offered to tow the mazda to a new (newly reopened anyway) 1/8th mile strip in Ark City Kansas. "Mid America Dragway"

Been chasing traction all year and I gotta say It seems like new tires alone did the trick. New set of MT pro DR's with no other changes and it's back to dead hooking 1.3X 60's. Only a few runs but basically all the same. 5.7x- 5.8x @ 120-122 mph. 20lbs and 14* of timing.  Got to run a few other really nice LS swapped vehicles in the vids below. The Chevy II was running 5.5x @ 128 with twin S366's at 25lbs with nice heads, intake, cam setup. Chevelle was a SBE stock headed 5.3 with a baby cam and LJMS S480.

Couple vids

https://youtu.be/ac5Fbp6CiaI

https://youtu.be/mv-BKc3pgAg

https://youtu.be/BTzKy3YuW8I

https://youtu.be/rLgXNLFov7o

​​​​​​​

This was the run against the Chevelle above. Was trying to prove I could cut a light with the 4.8 spooling the big S480... Almost worked!  :scratch:

 







 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 10:03:05 AM by forcefed86 »

Offline digitalsolo

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #613 on: October 22, 2018, 09:44:20 AM »
Nice!    Glad to hear that combo is working well.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Gen V LT4/TR6060, upper/lower pullies, headers, tune.
2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Stock...ish.

Offline SuperSlow

Re: 1979 SA RX-7 LS Turbo Build (8.93 @ 153)
« Reply #614 on: October 22, 2018, 08:10:34 PM »
Very nice, car looks like it is hardly even trying.

I thought you had built a forged 6.0 for it, what happened with that?

275 or 315? Either way, that tire looks huge on your car!