Akina's build

[AKINA FC]

Oh boy, that is a huge swing. Is Charlie putting together the bar for you? Are you going up on rear bar or have you always run the Tenabe and just dropping the rear spring rate? I think your car is going to get much easier to drive.

PM me the details on the front bar. I'll do one as well if it can save us some money.

Car looks awesome. How much gas does it have in it for those weights?

Yeah its a pretty big move but Russ's car work's pretty good and Charlie has good data for it so I feel confident in his recommendation's. I may need to move up or down a little to find exactly what it wants but I feel this is a good starting point. I think that I will need to increase some later as I will be adding more aero here fairly soon but one step at a time, I prefer to do one thing at so I can accurate results/data.
Charlie is not building the bar but is helping me on the design and parts, we can talk about it once I have all the information ready. I have always had the Tanabe bars on the car so I am just going with what I have for the rear to start with and dropping spring rates, Charlie use's the stock rear, just fyi.
Those weights are with a completely full tank, all fluids and safety gear in the vehicle including suite/helmet/hans and driver, I weigh 225. I can't wait to gut the doors, swap out the back glass and remove the headlights! The new springs are supposedly lighter as well!

[AKINA FC]

+1

I'm really interested to see what the data says.  do you have decent data with the cars current setup on any tracks that you plan to compare back to back?

Yes I have quite a bit of data from previous years and from this year, I have one track in particular that I like to run for testing so I know what the change's did.

[AKINA FC]

I'm very interested in what you find with softer springs / bigger bar. I've always been surprised by the hugely stiff springs most people seem to run on these cars. Granted, mine's a street car, but it had 525 / 380 springs on it when I got it, and it just seemed to not hook up well around corners, especially if they were bumpy. I dropped to 340 / 250 and it made a big difference in grip both in the corner, and in getting the power down off the corner. All with stock front bar, no rear bar. Again, street tires, not race tires like you.

Next I'm going to try RB front bar, possibly along with a stock rear bar to keep balance. I may go even softer on springs with the bigger bar.

I have to admit the car was fast before with the stiffer suspension, but it was a whole package I think, just what the car wanted with that current chassis setup. Now that its light and very rigid I can let the suspension and tires do the work, or at least that's the theory, It's not even close to the same car any more It's quite crazy. We will see what happens, need to start somewhere!

Cholmes - Do the RB front and no rear bar. You'll really like it on the street I bet.

For tighter more technical tracks I can see going to a softer rear spring. I'm running 400lb rears now, I could see maybe 350, even 300. On the faster tracks I run the 400s seem pretty good, 350 might be a good all around compromise. I ran 500 lb springs before and it was too stiff over bumps, the car hopped around a lot.

I ran my car with RB front and rear bars when it was rotary powered and never really liked it. I felt like the rear bar did not put the power down as well, but cornered off power better.

Im really interested in this discussion and results.

Good call for Cholmes    Yeah its on ice right now, quite difficult to drive, I missed how it felt at the end of last year   I think though that your numbers are pretty close to where it needs to be Ash, the Tanabe rear bar equates out to a little over 150#, so with a 275# spring I am at about 425lbs under load in corner, if the bar is at a full 5* of twist. So by the math Ill be 900/425 in the corner at least somewhere really close to that.

Your car is constantly getting better and better. I would also be interested in a front sway bar or more info on what your are planning on doing.

Once its all sorted out and I have all the parts installed I'll let you know Willcoop.

[AKINA FC]

Got everything figured out on the torsion bar, really appreciate the help Charlie! Here is the part numbers through 1speedway.com

bar - 608-250-36   36" long, 48 spline .250 wall thickness - 467.50 lbs with 11" arms at 5* of twist
mounting blocks - 605b-125  x2
locking collars - 605c-125  x2
bar arms - 610-3   x2    18" long  - these come straight and will require a 35* kick out 7" from the end with the splined hole, where it attaches at the bar. You have to heat them to 400*, bend, then throw them in water. I tried cold bending one in my press and it cracked at 32*. I recommend making a template out of plate to set beside it for reference of the bend required or have a shop do it.
You will also need to drill your holes in the arms for the endlink bolts for adjustment points

I dont have pic's at the moment but will this weekend when i finish the install, its very straight forward.

Got my springs installed, went with swifts as i found a good deal for all four direct from swift in california.

Also changed out my master cylinders for the brakes as the pedal was just horrible, I had 7/8 rear and 13/16 front, recommended from wilwood, which required a astronomical amount of force to get it to stop, i was flexing the floor when i pounded on it and could only make it stop if I hit the top of the pedal for more leverage So after talking to the guys at tilton and doing my own math before hand we arrived at 5/8's front and rear. The guys at wilwood just didnt really care and apparently can't do the math even when you have all the information for them   I was really dissapointed especially after running all their parts. Tilton will get my business from now on.

Not as much fun without pictures but I'll have some this weekend!

[Supe]

I think I had that same master cylinder combination from the guys at Revolution Brake with the Superlite front and Dynalite rear calipers, 12.75" dia rotors, but that was with the 6.25:1 ratio pedals.  I hope I don't run into the same problem, because at least in the garage, the pedal feels good!

[AKINA FC]

I think I had that same master cylinder combination from the guys at Revolution Brake with the Superlite front and Dynalite rear calipers, 12.75" dia rotors, but that was with the 6.25:1 ratio pedals.  I hope I don't run into the same problem, because at least in the garage, the pedal feels good!

6.25 ration would be a lot better, I am at 5.25 but the piston diameters are what really affects it. Use this link as it is the same basic calculator tilton uses http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/dual-bias-calc/   - your shooting for 80lb of foot pressure, 40lbs is what average assisted pressure is.

[AKINA FC]

Picture time!

New springs


Beginning work on brake ducts, 3" ducting. Waiting for flange inlets to arrive, going to mount them in the radiator opening for high pressure.


Sway bar




3/8"s x 5" bolts, drilled straight through the frame. Multiple ways a person could do this, just depends on how you want to do it and how much time you want to spend doing it. You can also see the arm has to be right up next to the frame and that normally a lip is there that sticks out so you have to hammer it down flat. If you didnt do that the bar would have to be longer and the wheels would make contact at full lock with the arms, at least mine would.



New catch can, still debating on changing the hose routing for asthetics

[digitalsolo]

Looking good!

I need to learn to TIG and build a catch can.   I'm jealous of all the nice setups I see.

[Supe]

Any other shots of your duct routing and backing plates?

Really like your swaybar setup, though I don't think I have the pan/balancer clearance you LS guys do.  Will have to figure out a more creative solution if I want to nix the RB bar

[AKINA FC]

Any other shots of your duct routing and backing plates?

Really like your swaybar setup, though I don't think I have the pan/balancer clearance you LS guys do.  Will have to figure out a more creative solution if I want to nix the RB bar

This same setup would easily fit whatever you wanted, would just need to make spacers to move the bar down a inch or so 
I'll post up more shots this weekend of the ducting and backing plates.

Looking good!

I need to learn to TIG and build a catch can.   I'm jealous of all the nice setups I see.

I agree! You need one! 

[Supe]

Any other shots of your duct routing and backing plates?

Really like your swaybar setup, though I don't think I have the pan/balancer clearance you LS guys do.  Will have to figure out a more creative solution if I want to nix the RB bar

This same setup would easily fit whatever you wanted, would just need to make spacers to move the bar down a inch or so 
I'll post up more shots this weekend of the ducting and backing plates.

Looking good!

I need to learn to TIG and build a catch can.   I'm jealous of all the nice setups I see.

I agree! You need one! 

Good deal on the bar!  Need to take a closer look and make sure I haven't put any more crap in the way.  I assume a bar that's about 3/4" wider on each side wouldn't be a problem?  The local NASCAR shop up in Mooresville has a million bars for about $100/ea, but they're all 37 1/2" standard length, albeit in every rate imaginable.  What was the diameter of your bar?

[largeorangefont]

Did you revalve the struts yet ot just going to try it and see? I might need a parts list for that sway bar, it looks great

[AKINA FC]

Any other shots of your duct routing and backing plates?

Really like your swaybar setup, though I don't think I have the pan/balancer clearance you LS guys do.  Will have to figure out a more creative solution if I want to nix the RB bar

This same setup would easily fit whatever you wanted, would just need to make spacers to move the bar down a inch or so 
I'll post up more shots this weekend of the ducting and backing plates.

Looking good!

I need to learn to TIG and build a catch can.   I'm jealous of all the nice setups I see.

I agree! You need one! 

Good deal on the bar!  Need to take a closer look and make sure I haven't put any more crap in the way.  I assume a bar that's about 3/4" wider on each side wouldn't be a problem?  The local NASCAR shop up in Mooresville has a million bars for about $100/ea, but they're all 37 1/2" standard length, albeit in every rate imaginable.  What was the diameter of your bar?

Width shouldnt be a huge problem unless you have low offset wheels like me, that much more sticking out would just touch the rim upon full lock. This bar is 1-1/4"  .250 wall. Speedways bar is 128.00 for any size pretty much, the mounts were 30.00 a piece, locking collars were 9.00 a piece and the arms are 58.00 a piece. Then figure associated hardware and freight. I had right at 380.00 in the whole thing.

Did you revalve the struts yet ot just going to try it and see? I might need a parts list for that sway bar, it looks great

I have not yet.  I figure I'll try it as is first but most likely will after this next race. If the car feels great I'm leaving them alone haha
I listed all the part numbers for what I bought a few posts up, let me know if you need any help! It's nice that this fits better than the stock bar did clearance wise to the engine and such.

[frijolee]

Swaybar looks great.  Strangely familiar though.   



http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.msg88016#msg88016

If I ever break mine I'd do the single bend version but I bought these whole.  Agree that heating up the arm is needed to bend it...  As big a bend radius as you can manage helps too.  FWIW mine is 1/8" wall, 36" long.  My math says it's just a touch lighter rate than an RB bar which was my main point of reference in driving style...  yours should be a fair bit stiffer. 

I used PVC spacers to keep it centered.

Last comment is to check your clearances with the rack at lock while cycling the suspension.  Not shown above, but I ended up notching the bottom of my arms by a touch to clear the rack.  Can't remember if that was required or just closer than I was comfortable with but either way, it's worth a check.

-Joel

[AKINA FC]

Swaybar looks great.  Strangely familiar though.   



http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.msg88016#msg88016

If I ever break mine I'd do the single bend version but I bought these whole.  Agree that heating up the arm is needed to bend it...  As big a bend radius as you can manage helps too.  FWIW mine is 1/8" wall, 36" long.  My math says it's just a touch lighter rate than an RB bar which was my main point of reference in driving style...  yours should be a fair bit stiffer. 

I used PVC spacers to keep it centered.

Last comment is to check your clearances with the rack at lock while cycling the suspension.  Not shown above, but I ended up notching the bottom of my arms by a touch to clear the rack.  Can't remember if that was required or just closer than I was comfortable with but either way, it's worth a check.

-Joel

That looks good Joel! Yeah I ran the suspension through its travel and adjusted the starting position of the arms, they clear by a 1/4" or so at max stroke. It's getting pretty tight in the wheel wells with all the ducting and sway bar now. Wish I had seen yours before hand for reference!
The pvc bushing for alignment is pretty good idea and your shot glass spacers look to work well also!
Do you remember what your pivot measurement is where the end link bolts on? 11", 12"?