NoRotors.com - RX7 Engine Swap Forum
Technical Information => Build Threads => Topic started by: MPbdy on May 13, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
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Hey everyone.
Time to join the party I guess. I will likely jump around chronologically just to make things flow a little better between posts.
My name is Daniel. I am 20 years old and live in the Inland Empire of Southern California. I am currently a junior in college earning a mechanical engineering bachelors. Obviously I love cars and racing, or else I certainly wouldn't be here. I grew up with my dad wrenching on cars in the garage. I also spent a large amount of time at the drag strip watching my dad race. At 11 years old I got a racing go kart and raced for five years. After I got my license it was on to drag racing. Recently I've been mixing in autocrossing when I can.
I'm far from the typical drag racer that is happy just going fast in a straight line. Drag racing is all about the competition. The cars are like tools and the speed is just part of the race. Its all about managing every aspect of your car's performance, as well as your own.
I got tainted by road racing when I was a kid and have been missing it ever since. Because of this...I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what kind of car I could have that would be in the low 11 to high 10 second range, and still handle like a serious road race machine...all while being a reasonable street car.
Background
I was very picky about the car I would start this project with. Before I knew anything about fd's I knew my car had to be white, and I wanted the touring model. I also wanted it to be in excellent shape minus an engine. I did not want to do any paint, body, or interior work. It is hard to find rollers in this condition, but thankfully for us the rotary engine likes to blow chunks early and often.
Well, after a couple days of searching and never seeing a white car I found that only 276 were made in 94, and significantly less in 95. As most of you know, the cars were not painted white for the 93 year. I almost gave up then and there, but I wasn't really in much of a rush to get started. I was in for the long haul.
I found a perfect car in Arizona. It was a roller with low mileage and had been garaged for a couple years. The owner had modified the rotary a little and after his n-th engine let go he just let it sit for a while with plans to do something later. Those plans turned into selling it. Unfortunately that car was sold about a month before I contacted him.
(car in Arizona)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_866.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=866)
I had WTB ads up for quite a while and casually searched. In my WTB ad I always linked to the car from Arizona. A member of v8rx7forum contacted me...the one who bought the Arizona car. I never thought the deal would go through...he flaked on me so many times. Long story short, last May, about a 3/4 a year after I started searching, my dad and I drove to San Francisco and back (Inland Empire) one weekend and I finally had my white FD.
(car at my house)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_867.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=867)
(Samberg subframe and other swap stuff I got from him too.)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_869.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=869)
As always when buying a used car there have been some surprises, but all in all I've been very happy. Most of the surprises are minuscule things that most people will never see. That first wash and wax reveals a lot.
Not coming off :D
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_868.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=868)
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i still love the sticker..
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GTO
I pretty much had two big reasons for wanting to build this car. I already mentioned the first...its fast as hell and will rip asphalt from the earth. Second, I wanted to build a car around an LS2. My planning stage was right around the time when everyone was swapping the l92 heads and l76 intake onto ls2's and making 500 horsepower with stock parts. This fascinated me. It really reminded me of the old days when people would build seriously fast cars using parts they could get from GM and frankenstein them together.
I figured by the time I had a car and was actually ready to buy an LS2 pullout the prices would have dropped significantly. Well, a year passed and prices were rock solid at way too much on ebay motors. Basically I wanted an ls2/t56 takeout shipped for 5k. They were going for lotsssss more than that.
Luckily we know a guy with access to the insurance auto auctions. He runs a junkyard, but also will bid for people and usually asks for a %'age of the sale price. Thankfully he owed a favor and I got a freebie. A day later I was on the road to pick up my totaled 2006 GTO for $6350 after auction fees.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_870.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=870)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_871.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=871)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_872.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=872)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_873.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=873)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_874.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=874)
It went pretty smooth at the pickup. It was pretty hilarious...no one would tell me anything. They expect everyone to be seasoned pros. It took a couple trips back and forth to the front office to get the right paperwork and to pay a couple extra fees and such. They didn't care to tell me beforehand that there is a $20 fee to have them actually put the car on the trailer >:( The forklift sets it down behind the trailer and drives away the first time :confused:
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Part Out
So the gto was really in pretty good shape. I sold most of the bodywork to one guy, and just whittled away at the rest. I picked the car up beginning of August last year and it was on its way to the junk yard at the end of the month. All said and done I sold around $2500 worth of parts back. Sometimes I look at the ls2/t56 and think how far I could be in the green if I offed it too...
I definitely want to do this again sometime, even if it is to just make some cash. I basically lived on my email for those few months. It took quite a bit of work dealing with people...mostly flakes, but its worth it to find the good ones. The biggest bitch is that the primary GTO forum will not let you post to classifieds unless you have 100 posts. 100 posts! They will also ban you if you just spam to get there lol.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_875.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=875)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_876.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=876)
The car sat for a good while with not much action. I was getting a lot of interest, but mainly flakes. I was slowly stripping it down when I had people to buy parts. I didn't want to figure out how to store all the good bodywork and other parts. Once the majority of the big stuff had been sold however, it was time to get rid of this thing. It took one solid weekend to strip out the rest of the interior, get the wiring, take the LS2 out, and dump the shell at pick and pull. Pretty sure I got a cool $20 from them :)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_878.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=878)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_879.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=879)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_880.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=880)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_881.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=881)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_884.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=884)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_882.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=882)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_883.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=883)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_885.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=885)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_886.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=886)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/GTO_partout/Dir_1/medium_887.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=887)
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Alright lets get this wrapped up. I'm just going to rattle off pictures from now on, so if there are any questions feel free to ask and I'll make stuff up as I go along.
This is kind of a greatest hits of my photo folder from the beginning til now. All pictures replaced with gallery uploads.
Current Progress
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_838.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=838)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_837.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=837)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_836.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=836)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_835.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=835)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_834.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=834)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_839.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=839)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_849.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=849)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_859.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=859)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_860.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=860)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_861.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=861)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_862.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=862)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_863.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=863)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_864.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=864)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_865.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=865)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_840.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=840)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_841.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=841)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_842.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=842)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_843.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=843)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_844.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=844)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_845.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=845)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_846.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=846)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_847.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=847)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_848.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=848)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_850.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=850)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_851.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=851)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_852.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=852)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_853.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=853)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_854.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=854)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_855.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=855)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_856.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=856)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_857.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=857)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_858.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=858)
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Looking good bro. GMPP sells a CARB Legal setup now but I don't know how the cats would fit under our rides. You can see the manifold and the 4 cats it comes with :)
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/photos/data/686/IMG_2612.JPG (http://www.streetlegaltv.com/photos/data/686/IMG_2612.JPG)
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Wow that is pretty sweet. I wonder if those manifolds would fit. I'm not sure if the outlet can go straight down like that. They look similar to corvette manifolds, and they don't fit.
I have the cats from the GTO and some L92 manifolds to test fit. Greg says trail blazer ss manifolds fit..maybe the truck manifolds are similar.
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Looks good I followed your thread on the other forum. I just picked up am FD myself, but it's going to be a while till it gets swapped.
Anthony
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Engine Plans
Alright so I have my ls2. Remember how I said I first decided I wanted an ls2, then figured out a car to put it in. Well, the plan for the ls2 was the l92/l76 intake setup. As time went on new parts came out and I now have lsa heads and an ls3 intake manifold.
The lsa heads are off the 6.2L supercharged caddy engine. These heads have a swirl vein in the intake port which will likely kill a little flow, but will pay dividends in regards to timing. LS engines do not like spark timing. The combustion chamber is very efficient. This is a double edged sword...the intake charge is very volatile, but it is prone to detonation. People have found the l92 heads in general to very sensitive to rattling and do not like much timing at all. The conclusion I take from it is that the intake port is very big, but sloppy.
The theory behind the lsa heads is that hopefully the engine will shift from being spark limited to being compression limited, and hopefully make more power on shitty 91 octane gasoline we've got here in California.
I am shooting for a smog legal 450 horsepower at the crank. That will be right around 400 rwhp and a great place to start. The car, I imagine, should be comfortable to get on it from a roll in 2nd gear and up, and will have no issues hauling ass.
The cam is a custom grind my dad decided on. We had the unique opportunity to get the original GM cam lobe profiles. A real good friend of my dads is an ex-very high level GM engineer. They did a lot of engine development work in the LT1/LT4 and the beginning of the LS1 era. My dad worked at Flowmaster when they had a partnership with GM. They made a lot of cool parts together! If anyone remembers the hotcam from GM that was my dad's.
Anyways, my camshaft is an ls7 intake lobe, an ls6 exhaust lobe, 116 separation angle, and installed at 109. The duration is 210/218 @ .050. The ls7 cam gets its massive lift from 1.8 rockers. I will be using 1.7's and the good stock yellow springs at 550 lift.
We keep going back and forth about it. Some days it seems stupid small and a waste of money. Other days I think it may lean more towards 500 horse. The big heads do like smaller camshafts, but I don't think anyone has done one with this low of duration. It is a big step up from stock with the lobe separation and intake center line though.
My biggest worry is in the exhaust. California will be requiring me to run exhaust manifolds. If worst comes to worst I know that 2001 camaro manifolds fit. It will be very difficult(read: impossible) to shove 500 horsepower worth of air through tiny ls1 manifolds :(
Needless to say, I will be very interested to see where I wind up power wise. At the moment I think I will see 450-460 at the crank, and would see 475 easily with some good headers. In any configuration...the car is going to be an absolute blast to drive and I cannot wait!
Parts Pile
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_888.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=888)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_889.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=889)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_890.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=890)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_891.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=891)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_892.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=892)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_893.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=893)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_894.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=894)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_895.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=895)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_896.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=896)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_897.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=897)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_898.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=898)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_899.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=899)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_900.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=900)
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WOW. You seem to really have your shit together and I hope you see and end to all your hard work. That part out looked to be a job and a half in itself!
Love the idea of a 6L with L92s and a fast. 500whp n/a is extremely acheiveable. Good luck.
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WOW. You seem to really have your shit together and I hope you see and end to all your hard work. That part out looked to be a job and a half in itself!
Love the idea of a 6L with L92s and a fast. 500whp n/a is extremely acheiveable. Good luck.
Hahaha well I have at least one person fooled ;)
The worst part about the GTO was the choice of month. My first summer back in socal and I'm parting out a black car on the sunny side of the house. I tried working on it in the afternoon a couple times and lasted about 20 minutes lol! Give me 65 degrees and overcast anytime!
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what are you doing for an intake?
im in the process of trying to get my ls1 BAR approved and all i need is a CARB legal intake
any suggestions?
have you found n e thing to use on ur ls2?
great looking build BTW
cant wait to see it done
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Thanks :)
I have the airbox from the GTO I parted out. I've read about people going to the ref without a hood on so you can fit a stock airbox.
The biggest issue is that there really just isn't much information about getting the bar sticker that I can find. On the old forum there was a little bit here and there...but nothing too valuable.
I'm building the car with smog in mind, and will cross the inspection bridge when I get there. I'm just hoping it goes smoothly!
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mine went pretty smooth cept for the intake...
i cant even find a place that has a factory ls1 intake... no one has them >_<
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What did you do as far as your fuel tank setup with the purge solenoid and all that?
Look on ls1tech for partouts. I'm sure people there have stock airboxes lying around.
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I'm waiting for some updates. :D
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Thanks for the interest. I've been distracted the past couple weeks by another car. I'm just getting back to this thing.
Workin on a few things at once. I started messing with the turbo 2 diff today. It was taken apart once before. All the disks are near brand new spec. The thrust washers are right in the middle. The conical springs were installed backwards :confused: Oh well, that's why you take things apart I guess.
I'm looking at different ways to increase the preload before putting it back together. I've read about low hp miatas spinning the inside rear with the stock preload. The breakaway torque stock is supposed to be around 35 ft lb. I want to bump it up to 60 or 80 ft lb. The only way I've read about doing this is with soda can shims. The aluminum breaks down and loses preload very quickly...not good for a driver.
So anyways, this is what the inside of the clutch pack looks like. I should be tackling the fuel system and engine stuff here soon too.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_570.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=570)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_571.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=571)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_572.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=572)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_573.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=573)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_574.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=574)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_575.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=575)
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The gallery kicks ass! I finally gave it a try, and now I'm in love. Fu imageshack :)
Its hot! Already 90 degrees by 10 am :( I guess I'll take the time to update the build thread now. I've been lazy about sitting down to write it all out.
This last weekend was really productive. I finally got the turbo 2 clutch pack installed and the rear end is fully assembled. I didn't take many pictures of the process, but assembling the diff is extremely easy. You just clean everything, measure it all, and throw everything back in there in the correct order. One unique thing that I am trying is a different order on the clutches in the stackup.
The stock order is Case - 3 springs - 2 clutches - 1 plate - center drum. The springs are conical springs that compress flat when tightened. The clutches are the part that spin, and they are splined to the axle gear. The plate is similar to the clutches, but it is splined to the case and does not rotate.
In the stock order, there are two sides of the clutches that do not do anything. That is two wasted friction surfaces! The new order that we assembled it in was this.
Case - 3 springs - 1 clutch - 1 plate - 1 clutch - center drum.
This new order means that the spinning clutches are being applied against a friction surface on all sides. The only reservation we had for this order was that the clutch will be spinning against the center drum. It is an extremely hard piece of metal however, so it should not cause an issue.
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Why does all of this matter? Well, a clutch pack differential has a certain amount of static preload. This preload is measured by a breakaway torque. This torque is measured by inserting the stub shafts into the diff, holding one end stationary, and rotating the other end with a torque wrench.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_576.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=576)
Static friction is greater than kinetic friction, so your breakaway torque will be the highest number you read. Once it starts moving, torque will drop off substantially. A digital torque wrench is handy for measuring this.
A higher preload makes it more difficult for the car to spin the inside tire coming out of a corner. Most people are familiar with a locker type posi where the diff is an on/off switch, fully locked or fully open. Limited slip differentials get complicated fast. A clutch pack does its best to send power to both wheels, but if its not strong enough you can still wind up with a one tire fire.
Too high of a preload and the differential loses function. It starts binding up and chattering at slow speeds like a welded diff. This is bad for street driving, and also for autocross. This binding and chattering means you're going to understeer very badly off throttle at slow speeds. Road course guys like to get the preload extremely high. They usually have only one slow speed corner, and its still faster than autocross stuff.
I read a lot about this from a guy on a miata forum with a 250 rwhp autocross miata. He had his turbo 2 diff apart like 17 times trying to get the preload correct. He was using soda can shims and increasing preload that way. This put more pressure on the clutches by squeezing them harder. This method was extremely sensitive. 1 thousandth of shim could cause a 20 ft lb increase in breakaway torque. Also, the aluminum soda can shims will break down very quickly. They flatten out and you lose your preload the more you drive. I guess that is ok for a race car...not good for a street car.
Long story short, by rearranging the order of the clutches it increased preload by 50% and I am very happy. This was with everything lightly oiled when assembled. I don't remember my breakaway numbers, and they aren't really relevant to anyone else anyways.
There is more to come but I am lazy again :)
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Alright I guess I'll get back to it.
I ordered all new seals and bearings for the rear end through Ray at Malloy Mazda. He's a great guy...hard on the check book though.
There are 3 different ways you can go about working on the rear end.
1) Take everything apart, do what you want to do inside, replace nothing and put it back together. Along with this, you have to pray to baby jesus that your bearing preload is still correct.
2) Same as #1, but you replace the crush sleeve and reset your pinion torque. This insures that your bearing preload is correct and you won't burn out the rear end. Much better than #1.
3) If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, replace everything.
I figured #3 was the best choice. I hardly have extra money lying around, but the rear end is something I hope to never have to service again. I also want the mazda rear end to live as long as possible. I don't want it to have any excuse to explode on me.
So anyways, here is the reassembly of the FD rear end with a turbo 2 clutch pack differential.
I'm starting out with everything cleaned up and ready to go. The old bearings have been pressed or pulled off, and the old bearing races and seals have been tapped out. Clean slate.
The pinion bearing on this thing is MASSIVE.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_577.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=577)
A press made everything much easier. It has been a very good investment for this project. Between the bushings, the rear end, and all the other random jobs its been very worthwhile. The press itself is a POS, but its much better than nothing.
Here the pinion, new bearing, and spacer are all lined up. The spacer only goes on one direction. You can do some damage if you press it on the wrong way. My dad has a massive collection of old bearing races. If you have a press it is a great idea to cut the race out and hold onto them. They are excellent shoving tools.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_578.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=578)
Once again, press to the rescue.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_579.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=579)
Here is the clean housing with the inner pinion race tapped in. I used a small hammer and a brass drift to get it in. Be careful getting it started though. If it starts in crooked it can be a serious pita.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_581.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=581)
The next series of pictures is how you install the pinion into the housing. Don't forget the new crush sleeve!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_582.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=582)
Put the new outer pinion race in the same way as before.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_583.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=583)
The bearing is a press fit onto the pinion. You have to drive it on. I didn't take pictures, but another stack of old bearing races made it pretty easy to drive on.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_584.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=584)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_585.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=585)
This is the outer oil seal for the pinion. Just gently tap it in. Again, be careful with getting this one crooked. Its much more fragile than the bearing races.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_586.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=586)
My dad likes to put silicone on the splines of the companion flange. If you get it down into the splines themselves it will keep oil from seeping up and even getting to the oil seal.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_587.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=587)
Now comes the fun part! You need some way to put a BFbar on the companion flange, and a BFwrench on the nut. I forget what the service manual said for the torque of the nut...but it was pretty comical. I think it was something like 120-200 ft lb. This picture was before it got tight.
What you're doing is compressing the new crush sleeve. It needed .060 inch crush based on comparing it to the old sleeve. You have to be extremely careful when doing this. The amount of crush you put on the sleeve is what sets the preload on the bearings. Too much crush and there is too much drag. You will burn up your brand new bearings. There is no way to undo if you go too far...time for a new oil seal and crush sleeve!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_588.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=588)
The drag is measured in inch pounds. The service manual calls for something like 11-15 inch pounds. Once you feel that the up and down play is being taken up in the pinion, you need to start measuring the drag frequently. For me, the drag was 2.5 inch pounds every time I measured it. We were going in 1/8 turn increments at the bottom. One more 1/8 turn and it jumped from 2.5 to 15 inch pounds...1/8 turn...
It was an oh $@!# moment, but it turned out to be perfect. Can't argue with perfect :)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_589.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=589)
Next up is installing the carrier, measuring backlash, and bolting it all up. Stay tuned for when my enthusiasm returns :popcorn:
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After you crush the crush sleeve the diff housing is completely rebuilt. The next thing to do is pop the carrier in there.
The best way to do it is to put one of the shims in and then put the carrier in. Next you need to wedge the other shim in and then drive it in with a hammer.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_590.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=590)
Hopefully when you took the diff apart you marked the bearing caps. You definitely want to keep these on the side they came off of. After you cinch the bearing caps you can feel the backlash in the ring gear. You find out pretty quickly how screwed you are!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_591.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=591)
This can be a very tedious process. The backlash is set by changing the thickness of the shims. However much you add or remove from the right side you need to add to the left side. If this were a 12 bolt or a 9 inch my dad has 100's of shims to use. Being a mazda...we had zero.
The first time we checked the backlash I had 0 in one spot, and not much more than that all the way around.
Fortunately, it only took one more attempt to get things right. I vaguely remember reading online once that you need to flip the shims side to side when installing a turbo 2 diff into a 3rd gen housing. All the measurements made sense, so I tried it. The backlash was then 4 thousandths all the way around, nicely within spec. It also had very little ring gear runout, which is a variation in backlash throughout the rotation of the ring gear.
The backlash is measured by a dial indicator with a magnetic base. You measure it in 4 places around the ring gear 90 degrees apart. This gives you a pretty good idea about the runout. Unfortunately there isn't really any other way to check this. If you want to rebuild your rear end you will need to buy/borrow a dial indicator.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_592.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=592)
One awesome thing about reusing the ring and pinion is that I did not have to set either the pinion depth, or check the contact pattern on the gears. Both of these can be extremely time consuming to get right. The only thing left was to torque the bearing caps and bolt on the rear cover.
The 3rd gen housing does not use a gasket. You need to make your own with silicone. Also you can see the side oil seals that i forgot to install earlier.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_593.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=593)
Torqued down the rear cover, installed the diff mount, and filled it up with diff fluid.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_594.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=594)
Here it is back in the rear cradle. My old diff bushings were completely ruined because the rear end hung unsupported for so long. On the previous page you can see where one of them was almost entirely ripped out. My dad quickly bent up a strap of metal to hold it up until we get it supported in the car. The poly bushings would probably survive just fine, but no reason to needlessly stress them.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_595.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=595)
I left some of the bolts loose in the suspension so the axles could go back in easily.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_596.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=596)
At this point the axles need a really good shove. One thing that everyone should replace are the axle clips. I've read about a lot of people that have taken the axles out and cannot get them locked back in place. They're just dweebly little steel clips, and are very cheap.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_597.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=597)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_598.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=598)
These nuts need to be torqued very tight. The spec in the service manual was 175-225 or something like that. I nailed them with the impact until it was as tight as it gets. The impact doens't even do 200 ft lb. After that a crow bar and a big torque wrench will get you to 200 ft lb. I did not want to screw up the brand new wheel studs so I threw some spacers on there with the old lug nuts holding them on. After the nut is torqued, stake the nut into the notch in the axle.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_600.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=600)
I have to do the fuel system before I put this back in the car, but its nice to be done. The brakes are all freshened up. I will be writing about that next. I'll install this back in the car complete with the brakes on it and everything. It will just need the 6 nuts and the e-brake hooked up and it will be done.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_599.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=599)
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I didn't rebuild the brakes, but I wanted them to look pretty through my new wheels. I started with the rears. I have Hawk HPS pads to install later. I bought them when I read nothing but good things about them, and recently everyone seems to hate them. I'm sure they will work just fine. I picked up some caliper paint at Napa. I like how it came out looks wise. Here's hoping it doesn't flake off as soon as it gets hot.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_601.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=601)
The calipers are stupid simple to take apart. Two bolts and pop some clips out and they're fully apart.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_602.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=602)
Here they're all clean and masked off. I masked off the brake line area, and the piston.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_603.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=603)
My pro paint booth.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_825.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=825)
Pop the clips back on, careful not to scratch the new paint.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_826.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=826)
The rear calipers are a fully floating design. The smaller part bolts to the suspension and is stationary. The piston pushes on the rotor and that moves the larger part of the caliper to apply both brake pads. The caliper floats on these pins. They need to be re-lubed before assembly. Be careful not to put too much in there or it will hydrolock the pin from going all the way down. This is way too much on the screw driver...but it made a good picture.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_604.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=604)
The pins are labeled L and G. One is the lock pin and the other is the guide pin. I have never seen this before, so I have no idea what the difference is. The caliper has an L and a G on the body...make sure they go in the right hole.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_605.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=605)
Nice and pretty! For now they're bagged up, but they will be going on the rear suspension soon. The pads aren't in yet because I want to put anti squeal on them.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_606.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=606)
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I got the rotors done too. They didn't seem to be in too bad of shape, just rusty and ugly. I had them bead blasted and resurfaced. They came out really nice.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_828.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=828)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_829.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=829)
Here is one of them masked off ready to paint. I added new stations in my paint booth.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_830.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=830)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_831.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=831)
The rotors came out bitchin. I am pretty happy with the result. A little black paint makes a huge difference. Its not show car quality, but it helps.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_832.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=832)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_833.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=833)
I have the front calipers painted, but I'm not finished with them yet. I should have pictures of them in the next few days. Hopefully by then it won't be so damn hot! That is all the updates for now. Thanks for reading.
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All pictures have been replaced by gallery uploads :)
Imageshack had randomly deleted like 5 of my pictures >:(
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Got a little more progress done today. It feels like everything takes twice as long when its 100+ degrees outside. My camera isn't so good in low light pictures. A lot of them didn't come out. The last two are all I've got from assembling the front brakes lol. I also figure I wrote enough about my sub par painting skills so I'm skipping the front calipers. The rear cradle is now fully assembled and ready to go back in the car. The front suspension is complete now except for the sway bar and the steering arms.
I bought front and rear racing beat sway bars from Finney when he was de-modding his car. The front bar ran into one of the hard power steering lines, but its no big deal. The sway bar mounts are sand blasted currently. I want to look into some way of reinforcing them without paying for the widefoot mounts. My idea requires the radiator to at least be mocked up first to make sure nothing interferes. The radiator position is way more important than the sway bar mounts.
My dad got his flow bench all back up and running again. Its leveled and refilled with oil so the manometers can be calibrated. Looking forward to doing a comparison between the LS2 and the LSA head. We may even port the LSA heads some.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_905.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=905)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_904.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=904)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_906.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=906)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_907.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=907)
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Very nice buildup. I'm subscribed :P
Watching with bated breath for updates. ;)
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this is a great thread and a very good read, keep the updates comeing
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If you are interested in reinforcing the factory swaybar mounts, I will be working on mine next week sometime. I plan to box the mounts with some plate and use a dimple die in the middle to keep it light and strong.
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Thanks guys :)
I'll be interested to see how the mounts turn out.
We were thinking about welding in a bar between the two mounts up near the frame rail. It should pretty much stop any deflection I think. It should put the bar in tension when you go around a turn. That should carry the load instead of the frame rail. At least that is the guess.
Lots of shoulds in there.
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Good news and bad news.
Good news - I have finally figured out why my car smells so odd. Every time I would open the garage up there was a really unpleasant odor. I figured it was something trapped in the car from the previous owner being a smoker.
Bad news - It was the many year old gas in the gas tank. It took me a while to draw the connection because the odor was so much stronger, but it definitely was the vapors leaking out.
Good news - The tank is out of the car and the gas is drained out. The gas tank is no where near the car and everything can air out for a while.
Horrible news - The tank is severely rusted. The car has been sitting since around 2005 I think. I've been worried about this for a while. I never thought it'd be this bad.
This has pretty much slammed the brakes on the momentum I had this past week. The fuel system was really gonna be pretty quick to bust out and get out of the way. Once the fuel system was done the rear cradle could go back in the car and it would be rolling again.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_910.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=910)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_911.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=911)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_908.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=908)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_909.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=909)
This is going to be pricey :(
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Excellent attention to detail in this build. I am definitely looking forward to reading this at least once a week. What school are you going to for your ME degree? I'm studying at a small college here in Melbourne called Florida Tech for my ME degree as well.
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Ran into the same problem with my tank only yours looks mint compared to mine! Found a guy in PA who baked the tank, plasma cut it down the middle, sandblasted it, re-welded it, coated it, then guranteed it for life. The damage was around $275.00! Let me know what you decide on the tank, I could dig up his name if you needed it!
http://www.gas-tank.com/ (http://www.gas-tank.com/)
This guy has more balls then me to plasma cut and weld a gas tank! Work was TOP NOTCH!
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Looks like a nice solution, but for $275 + shipping both ways you're close to a new one at $600 from Ray. Also no shit about cutting and welding on a gas tank! Seems like it could get pretty exciting...
I am having surprisingly good luck locating a used one. I am waiting on a couple pm's back right now.
Fritz has a couple options for me at $125 + shipping, but he is in Virginia. I'd rather not have to pay for the shipping. There is one guy about an hour from me for $120 but I don't know what kind of shape its in. There is a guy in norcal 8-9 hours away that has a '95 tank in great condition for $50! I really want that one. Next weekend I'll have friends up north drag racing...hopefully he lives near Infineon raceway. I could pay him an extra 10 bucks to drop it off or something.
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Excellent attention to detail in this build. I am definitely looking forward to reading this at least once a week. What school are you going to for your ME degree? I'm studying at a small college here in Melbourne called Florida Tech for my ME degree as well.
Oop missed this post.
I'm goin to Cal Poly Pomona. I'm fairly certain I'm a senior now based on units. Starting my junior level classes now. I transferred in as a junior with my general ed done.
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Hey me too! :D
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Very nice work. I love seeing builds with such attention to detail. Keep it up, it will be a badass car!
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Sweet build man.
Keep it up and don't get discouraged.
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Thanks for the compliments everyone. Its nice to know that people are reading :)
Its definitely tough sometimes RTRx7. I think everyone goes through periods of depression with these builds lol. I wish the progress was more constant. There are moments of brilliance where everything is going quickly and smoothly, and then there are times where it sits stagnant for a month. There are a couple things here and there that bug me, but I am extremely happy with everything so far. The things that bother me won't even be visible to anyone else. When the car is finished no one will be looking at the runs in the caliper paint. :D
I have a lot of pictures I need to organize and write up. I'll give quick teaser of whats coming up :yay:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_991.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=991)
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Well, I guess its time to catch up. It feels like I've gone in 100 directions. I really wish I could have just finished the fuel setup earlier...everything would be much simpler at the moment.
First up, my dad has been working on the new brake lines. I've only done double flare lines once before and was not really confident to take something like this on. The lines are really tight how we wanted to do it. The flare tool barely could get on most of the lines because of where the bends were. Its coming out beautifully.
Its about half done. The only lines left are the ones that go from the T to the front calipers. One line will run across the firewall like the stock ones did, and the other one will go down the hole in the inner fender right by the T.
That is the stock prop valve mounted under the master cylinder. The fitting that the line is going to for the rear brakes is stock and in a very convenient place.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_1010.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1010)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_1011.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1011)
I also painted the shine street diffuser I bought a while back. I wet sanded it, filled a couple spots, and then shot it with some rustoleum textured plastic paint. Its the same stuff Silverbullet used to paint his and it looks pretty nice. I can't wait to see it under the car! Too bad it won't get mounted until the very end :(
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_1/medium_1012.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1012)
Its pretty hard to photograph in the sun. The paint really changes its look depending on your angle and the lighting. Under the car it should be a lot more subtle. The texture does a good job of replicating the stock textured look on the front and rear lip.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_1014.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1014)
I had some free time so I took a cutoff wheel to the bin for the battery relocation. That's as far as I got with it for now. Just fyi, if you wear shorts the molten plastic gets stuck in your leg hair. Feels bad man.
The plan at the moment is to build a sealed and vented metal battery box under the bin. We'll see how that works out ::) Nothings actually been set in the car yet to see what kind of real estate I've got to work with.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_1013.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1013)
And as you saw from the teaser the engine and trans are now separated :) This post is getting kind of long..time for a new one.
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Its amazing what some people can do in 40,000 miles! Nothing is awful, but its definitely in worse condition than I had hoped. Thankfully I decided to get an aftermarket clutch before I separated the engine and trans. I was close to planning on reusing the stock one. $900 surprises are not fun when they aren't planned.
The clutch disk was almost fully worn, and the flywheel was extremely warped. The pressure plate looked anodized it was so blue. It had been extremely hot many times.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1015.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1015)
It was pretty dirty. I stripped it of everything loose and got it ready to be washed. Nothing out of the ordinary...except there was a pretty large amount of cat hair under the fuel rails. wtf :secret:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1016.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1016)
It cleaned up real nice :) It soaked for a day and a half in orange clean, and then I blasted it with soapy water. Its much nicer to work on clean parts.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1022.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1022)
At this point I started tearing the engine down while my dad worked on the cylinder heads. I'd stop to grab pictures when interesting things were happening.
It was suggested to me to get the LSA cylinder head. For those who don't know, the LSA is the detuend LS9 that goes in the new supercharged cadillac cts-v. The LSA head is the same as the LS9 head, but does not use titanium valves. They are very similar to the LS3 head, but have slight revisions.
There is very little information out there about these heads. I haven't found a single person who has run them.
I knew that the chambers were a lot bigger on these heads than the LS2 heads. I want the compression ratio to be brought back to stock, which is 11:1. To do this, you have to cut the heads. To know how much to cut the heads, you have to CC the chambers. The stock head has a 64.5 CC chamber. You want to match that with the new head.
To CC the chamber my dad has this plexiglass plate with a hole in it. You want the hole to be where the air bubble will float to (think of a level). You want seal the plate to the head, and the valves to the seats using some kind of grease. The fancy tube is a beret. It has graduations from 0-100 CC. You fill it with liquid to 100cc, and then fill the chamber without spilling. Once the chamber is full you know the volume of the chamber. These chambers were 70cc exactly. The machine shop will need to figure out how many thousandths cut off is equal to 1 CC so they can clip the appropriate amount of material.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1017.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1017)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1018.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1018)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1019.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1019)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1021.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1021)
Next up is flowbench testing. Not tryin to brag (ok maybe a little :D), but how many homes have a flowbench in them?
The setup is like this. The piece of clay is molded to make a smooth entry into the port. There are two checking springs holding the valves in. The head is clamped to the plexiglass with a gasket in between them. The plexiglass has a 4 inch bore, the same as the LS2. A dial indicator is resting on top of a bolt that is screwed down to open the valve. The dial indicator lets you know what lift number you're at.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1024.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1024)
I'm taking a head off, and he's playing with a giant vacuum cleaner.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1026.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1026)
Both heads are off. Yuck.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1027.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1027)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1028.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1028)
Keep the valvetrain organized. You'll want to know what went where when you find something wrong. Also, if you're reusing valvetrain you generally want it to go back where it was.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1030.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1030)
Just the dampener, front cover, and cam left to go.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1029.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1029)
This picture came out terrible. Its a short block now.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1032.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1032)
And all done for the night. I need a bigger table.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1031.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1031)
Honestly the engine isn't in too bad of shape. The oil has been changed a few times between 0 and 40,000 miles...so it could have been worse. It may have been naive to expect the engine to be less carboned up, but really its only 40,000 miles! I had cleaned out the bores quite a bit. There was a lot more carbon in there. Thankfully all the cylinder walls look ok. So far there aren't any signs of detonation. Tomorrow night we will pull a piston and see what the rings and bearings look like.
Another thing I didn't like is there was quite a bit of oil in the intake and everything seemed pretty moist beyond that point. Like I said, nothing shows signs of detonation, but its never good to be misting oil in there. I know oil in the intake is fairly normal with these engines, but it seems a little excessive. I wonder if it was overfilled?
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I forgot to write about the cylinder heads!
The flowbench results were pretty interesting. I could verify the data against a couple online sources that had flowbench data for L92 heads. The exhaust port flow matched almost identically. This allowed me to compare the intake flow numbers from my head to theirs.
As expected, the exhaust port is exactly the same as the l92 head. It flows 212cfm. The intake is very different. The most unique part of the LSA head is the "wing" in the intake port. It creates a low pressure in the port to pull the intake charge towards the center of the chamber. Without the swirl wing the intake charge dumps straight into the cylinder wall. Ideally you want the intake charge to enter the chamber right in the center. You never want to make it make a hard turn. On a big block chevy, the head has two good intake ports and two bad intake ports. The good intake ports open into the center of the chamber. The bad ports dump into the cylinder wall. If you flow each intake port, the good one will be 20 CFM better. It makes a big difference how the intake charge enters the chamber.
On the other had, the wing blocks part of the port to create that low pressure and takes up area.
The LSA head matches the L92 until .450 lift. At that point the L92 head runs away from it. At peak lift, the LSA head flows 30 cfm less. Its 290 something vs 320 something.
Now, CFM is not the end all be all for cylinder head performance. This is where voodoo, the dark arts, and ritual sacrifice comes into play. The biggest criticism of the L92 head is that the intake port is almost TOO big. It is a lazy port. The velocity is very low. It is basically just a rectangle extruded into the combustion chamber. They definitely make good power, but its possibly giving up performance by being that big.
Also, more black magic, there are things that happen in a port on an engine that do not happen on the flowbench. An engine does some crazy stuff while its running. A flowbench does a good job of comparing heads, but it doesn't really replicate an engine. Also, not everything shows up as a change in CFM. Velocity, chamber entry, mixture motion...all of these things are trial and error kind of things. Problem is I don't have piles of heads to test nor a dyno to test them on.
The LSA head will definitely 100% without question have better combustion chamber entry, as well as a higher velocity. In low lift, 450 and below, it should run harder than the l92 head. It flows the same CFM and has a higher veloctiy and better entry path...there is no reason for it to not make more power.
The worrysome part is above 450 lift. 30 cfm is a whole lot of flow. It is 10%! At the moment I think the plan is to still run these heads. Whenver I want I can box them back up and exchange them for l92 heads.
The dilemma is do I satisfy my curiosity and possibly leave power on the table, or do I go with what everyone else is running and know it will work?
The guess right now is that it will sacrifice some top end over the l92's, and make for an even fatter torque curve. It should be good for the application, and I'm excited to see what happens.
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wow this is a awesome build i have no doubt that motor is gonna run awesome! pretty cool your dad knowing all that shit and handing the info down!
i feel you on the build and its nice to go to your thread and see people are enjoying it and waiting to see more of it! almost brings you back to life.
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Wow.
Serious stuff happening here.
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So nothing complicated then? LOL
Nice work, dig the flowbench!
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Great thread keep it up... you pops has some awesome tools!
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Thanks a lot everyone :D
Great thread keep it up... you pops has some awesome tools!
LOL yes he does. Its amazing after all this time working with him he still pulls random crap out that I have never seen before.
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Didn't I say something about NOT wanting $900 surprises?
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1061.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1061)
This is one of the worst cases of blow-by and oil consumption we've ever seen. All this at only 40k miles....what the fuck Charles.
You can see all the places in the cylinder wall where the combustion gasses was going past not just the top ring, but all the rings. At this point the rings were doing basically nothing...in this cylinder at least.
I'm looking at a new set of rings and pistons now. All the carbon could be cleaned up, but I don't trust them. The ring lands could be screwed and you can never see it. It would also be excruciatingly time consuming to get all the carbon out, and you run the risk of scratching and ruining the sealing surface in the ring land.
The bearings look perfect though!
It is what it is.
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Here is a spreadsheet of the flowbench result of the LSA heads. They're probably going to get touched in a few placed, but no major porting.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1076.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1076)
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what kinda pistons you looking to get?
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Ones that come with a crank and rods :secret:
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Ones that come with a crank and rods :secret:
details please... i promise you thats way more than a 900 dollar suprise :yay:
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I'm terrible at keeping secrets :( I guess I made you post about your short block so its only fair lol.
I'm looking heavily into the Livernois 404 cu in stroker. 4 inch arm Livernois/Callies crank, Callies H beam rods, and Diamond pistons. These are absolutely by far the best parts for the lowest price. Everything else in this price range was an eagle crank, unbalanced, or wasn't a bolt in kit. They claim its a 1000hp shortblock, and it just needs main bearings to bolt in.
I'm finding out right now if the pistons work with the square port heads. The intake valve is bigger and I think the center-line is different compared to the LS2 heads. If for some reason down the road I feel the need to have a 280/300 .750/.750 cam in this thing I want to make sure the valve reliefs are in the right spot lol.
(http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/prod_imgs/img-1773-large.jpg)
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product.phtml?p=1773 (http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product.phtml?p=1773)
Honestly the pistons are fine to reuse. It would be a huge bitch to clean them...and there is still some chance that something would be bad down the road. A mechanic would slide them out, ring them, and push them back in lol. This engine is NEVER coming out of this car unless I want it to. After all this it better run forever.
I couldn't put a 40k mile engine in that looked like it had run for 300k miles. You can find carbon literally everywhere in this engine...it really did need to come this far apart. That is the main reason why I wanted pistons...and then stock pistons and rings were going to be at least $600+ machine work. I always wanted to sleeve and stroke this engine down the road anyways...this is good enough for now 8)
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thats a bad ass setup! i do like. what are the stock rods and crank good for? i was gonna go that route as well but i read into it and my rods are good to 700 plus rwhp so im not gonna change them out. i just want a killer na car so i didnt need to change them out.
whats the orice on that setup? would be sick if u go that route. what do they make on a setup like that?
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Not too sure on the limit of the stock rods. People will tell you some insanely high number because whats his name went 6's with a stock ls1 or some bs third hand story lol. The stock rods are 6.098 inch, and these are 6.125. The ls7 short would do more than enough for me also...I'd definitely leave it alone.
The price is $2200. They rate their short blocks with this setup to 1000 horse. The crank is supposed to be similar in strength to a callies magnum. They say the crank is good for 1200 lol. To say the least, it'll do more than I ever need it to.
The plan for the engine is still the same...its going to be really mild, just a lot bigger. It'll still have the baby cam with cats and exhaust manifolds. It definitely won't be the strongest 404 ever built, but probably one of the few that are cali smog legal. A gm high tech story says the kit picks up 40 horsepower usually, but the 50 ft lb of torque is the important part :D Its gonna thump.
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well good to hear! i love this build keep up the work! cant wait to start doing the fun parts of my build!
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And that kit is a bolt in for a LS2 block? You dont have to bore or sleave? If so I am now interested. I was planning on buying or building a 416/418 LS3 but I already have a LS2 lying around so.... :yay:
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The only thing I've heard about a 4 inch stroke in an LS2 is that you need to grind the bottom of the cylinder to have the rods clear. Other than that it doesn't require anything out of the ordinary as far as engine work goes. The only way to take the bore out on the aluminum blocks is to sleeve them. Some people have taken an LS2 to 4.030...but I don't think everyone thinks its such a great idea. This you will need to hone the cylinders to make the 4.005 piston fit, but that is the case for any replacement piston.
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Great build!
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update or ban!
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Uhhhh....errrr
3.73 gears or ban!!!!
I haven't gotten a whole lot done since the last update. I was racing this last weekend.
My stroker kit is supposed to be on the way...but I haven't gotten any word that it shipped yet. He said he hoped it would ship on Friday, and now its Wednesday lol. It may be on its way and I just didn't get an email..who knows. I need to measure all the new parts before I send the block out for machine work and order main bearings.
I did get a gas tank. Its a night and day difference from the old one. The guy bought a brand new tank from Ray like 3 years ago, and then unfortunately got in a wreck and had to part the car out. Still can't find a fuel pump tree though.
I didn't get any pictures, but we got the front steering assembled and did an eyeball alignment on it so it will be steerable to move it around. The rubber napa steering rack boots fit over the hinson inner correction that I'm using. Its quite the stretch. I'm hoping the boots don't pull off or rip when things start to move around.
Priorities have shifted around a little. The new plan is to get the fuel lines done in the back with the corvette fpr. Then the rear end can go in the car and it can roll around. The gas tank can go in after the rear suspension, but the fuel lines are mostly inaccessible. I bought all new EFI hose from napa just to be safe. When all the engine parts get here I can go back to working on that.
I really want to get it off jackstands and clean the garage out. It's also going to be nice to see the car on the ground again...I might even test fit one of my enkeis :)
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You and your pops make a good team. Wish my dad was that cool!!!! 8) Can't believe you have a flowbench in your garage, so cool!
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Parts parts parts :D
The crank is beautiful. The coating on the pistons is pretty neat too. I was surprised to see a small dish. I thought they were flat tops with valve reliefs. I guess they dish the piston to counteract the increase in swept volume. With the flat top piston the CR would be 11:1 with a 70 cc combustion chamber. The dish must make it 11:1 with the stock 64.5cc combustion chamber.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1600.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1600)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1601.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1601)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1602.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1602)
Thread title now has 100% more stroker.
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ohhh baby! i just need my pistons and bolts and then i take all my junk to get ballanced.. looks sick! whos gonna ballance it all?
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It was all balanced by Livernois :)
The rods haven't been out of the package, but Callies sends a card with the total weight, reciprocating weight, and rotating weight. It looks like the pistons have been trimmed in a few places to get them to weigh the same. The different weights plug into a formula they've got and it adds up to a bob weight mass, and they use that to balance the crankshaft.
Are you putting forged pistons in the 427? I thought you were leaving the short alone ;)
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yes i will be doing a set of diamond pistons as soon as i can figure out exactly what i want. the short will be stock crank and rods. but darton sleeved with pistons :P ... i bought my heads this week so im kinda pumped for those to come. along with some other goodies. but keep up the killer work! car is gonna be sick! cant wait to see numbers from it
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yay! I can continue living vicariously through you :yay:
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i love all the car porn in this thread, those pistons are the sex.
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I was kind of confused by the pistons...I took a closer look just now. I cc'ed them the same way I did the heads earlier. Its an 18cc dish.
With the stock heads it'd be 10:1 compression ratio, and with 70cc heads they'd be 9.6:1. You'd need a 56cc chamber to get back to 11:1 haha.
I'm going to have to call them Monday and figure out what happened. Maybe I'll just keep them for my 2000 horsepower turbo car ::)
Something has to go right eventually.
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I was about to say, that looks fairly close to the dish on my Wiseco pistons... which net me 8.8:1 CR. ;)
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The whole assembly had to be sent back to Livernois. Unfortunately they can't match the weight of the new pistons with the old ones. Diamond put the wrong pistons in the box in the first place. All the documentation has the correct part number on it. Excellent customer service though! I've had much smaller issues turn into a gigantic fight with other companies. They emailed me shipping tags no questions asked, and will have a new balanced assembly back to me asap.
I did get a chance to mock up the crank with a rod in one of the cylinders to check for clearance. Some people need to grind a big relief in the bottom of the cylinder bore for the rod bolts to clear with a 4 inch stroke. Mine cleared all the way around, but got kind of close in one spot. I also deburred the whole block with a file. It was ridiculously sharp. One wrong move and you'd be off to the emergency room.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1717.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1717)
A std cast stock replacement 350 piston...checking my piston to head clearance ;)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1718.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1718)
This is all it took for me! I saw one video where a guy was really getting after it with a mill. He ground into the steel sleeve and everything. Not every rotating assembly is the same though. The cylinder I checked could have run with how much clearance it had. I didn't want to check every cylinder though so I made a template and marked where to grind.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1719.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1719)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_1720.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1720)
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Added the pictures
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im at about this stage myself! sucks waiting on stuff...
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Yep my 402 pistons have a dish to them or I would be in the 12:1 range with my heads. I"m still looking at 11.3:1 now.
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Nice pictures..
What camera?
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The piston card that I got (for the pistons I was supposed to get) said they had an effective volume of .175 cubic inches, which is 2.86 cc. If that is including the valve reliefs, then my 70cc combustion chambers will put the compression ratio right near 11:1. If its a 2.86cc dish with more taken out for valve reliefs, then I will have to cut the head some.
The camera is just a Nikon point and shoot. Its a coolpix s230. I have been getting better at taking pictures with it, but I fought it a lot at the beginning. Its extremely convenient though, no bigger than my cell phone. The macro mode pictures turn out exceptionally well, but that is only for the real closeups. When it starts to get dark everything gets blurry on me.
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Are you sure about the pistons. That sounds really small for a dish. When the flat tops I had in Romans motor has about that. My pistons have a -8CC dish. The valve relifes alone were that size on the flat tops I used. Here is a picture of my -8CC pistons.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/Sabre002/bW1jMS9EQ0lNLzEwMExHRENGL0ltYWdlMDgyNTIwMTAxOTQzNTUuanBn.jpg)
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Honestly I do not have a clue. From pictures it looks like there is a slight taper down to the center of the piston. Not a dish really, just a concave top with valve reliefs. Their kit uses different manufacturers than they used to though, so the pistons that are coming may be different than that.
Whatever comes I know I can make work. An 18cc dish...that would not have worked. I want the smallest amount of relief as possible so the quench stays tight. With a big dish you gain a ton of quench area.
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Well what is the comp ratio you are looking for? Also what is the combustion chamber volume on your heads. Whats the thickness of the head gasket?
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11:1. I don't think the 91 octane out here can handle much more than that.
70cc at the moment
Stock mls gasket, I think .051 compressed?
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Whats the bore?
If you have a place you can get Fuel with out 10% ethanol in it you should. I lost my last place that cant get that for me so I'm thinking about decking my heads and building a race gas only motor.
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4 inch bore that will be honed as soon as I can measure the pistons. It will be in the .005 to .010 range probably.
I must be out of the loop on this one, whats wrong with E10? There has been a good % of ethanol in pump gas for a long time now. What is so horrible about it that you will convert your engine to race gas :confused:
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hey daniel. side-tracking to your differential work... I am in the process of moving my MT companion flange to my AT diff; do I need to replace the pinion crush sleeve and oil seal (i am not planning on replacing the pinion bearing)? Also, I feel like I need three hands to set the ring gear assembly back in the housing with the bearing races not slipping off... what's the trick?
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I would definitely replace the crush sleeve any time you loosen the pinion. An oil seal and crush sleeve are cheap, like $25 shipped cheap. It is a pretty big gamble if you don't replace the crush sleeve since it will wipe out your bearings. Make sure you have a long ass wrench to tighten the pinion nut, and an inch pound torque wrench, preferably with a dial.
You are setting your bearing preload by compressing the sleeve a little bit at a time. You crush it for a long time before the bearings start to drag, and then you go a little at a time. As you compress it more, the pinion rides against the bearings harder and creates more drag. You measure the drag with the torque wrench and get it to spec. If you go too far, you've got to start over.
The easiest way to do it is with 3 hands lol. The next best way is to put the two races on the bearings and hold the carrier by the races. Rest one of the shims inside the case, and then slide the carrier in and hope it all stays together. Then you can take a rubber mallet and knock the other shim into place.
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Hey Daniel,
Where are you at in SoCal? I assume you'll come out to SevenStock? Car's looking great!
-Joel
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4 inch bore that will be honed as soon as I can measure the pistons. It will be in the .005 to .010 range probably.
I must be out of the loop on this one, whats wrong with E10? There has been a good % of ethanol in pump gas for a long time now. What is so horrible about it that you will convert your engine to race gas :confused:
The power and compression ratio I'm working with does not leave much room for error. I'm fear full of spark knock and pre detonation. the 10% ethanol just adds to the possibility of that. Also my car will be a road race time attack car I don't want to run into that problem being magnified at the track due to heat soak. It was 100 degs this summer for like 60 days. So If I'm to close to that threshold already I mine as well just bump up to race gas. Its just something I have kept in my head that I might be forced to do.
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Thanks!
I went to sevenstock last year. I may come out again for a little while. It was really damn hot last year rofl. I felt like I had seen it all after being there a couple hours.
I'm in Rancho Cucamonga, five miles from AAA speedway :) I definitely want to meet the socal gang at some point. Last year I talked with Mark (gnx7) while looking at Mike's car, and he told me to replace the pillowball bushings haha. My dad and I talked with Dan for a few minutes too. I never really introduced myself though. We saw Mike and the ls7 car (is Ray the owner?) but didn't meet them. I looked high and low for your FC but I couldn't find you :( I really wanted to see it.
I know Marcus wants his car done for sevenstock...I hope he gets there. If he gets it done I'll probably come for a little while. I wish I could say the same about my car...maybe next year haha. I've kind of stalled recently between the heat and finding stuff wrong on everything I touch.
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4 inch bore that will be honed as soon as I can measure the pistons. It will be in the .005 to .010 range probably.
I must be out of the loop on this one, whats wrong with E10? There has been a good % of ethanol in pump gas for a long time now. What is so horrible about it that you will convert your engine to race gas :confused:
The power and compression ratio I'm working with does not leave much room for error. I'm fear full of spark knock and pre detonation. the 10% ethanol just adds to the possibility of that. Also my car will be a road race time attack car I don't want to run into that problem being magnified at the track due to heat soak. It was 100 degs this summer for like 60 days. So If I'm to close to that threshold already I mine as well just bump up to race gas. Its just something I have kept in my head that I might be forced to do.
Yeah that makes sense. In California we've just got to work with the piss they give us. In your case it makes sense to go to race gas. I'd sooner DD my car when its done then turn it into a race car at this point. My engine is going to make "bad" peak power numbers...well in the range of cam only ls2 setups. The power curve is going to be pretty nuts though. It should be a great street engine, which is the main goal.
With 10.9 or 11:1 the engine will be easy enough to tune to run on 91, even if its e10. The LSA cylinder heads have a really good combustion chamber design. It should safely take quite a bit more spark timing than a 243 or L92 head. In my case we'll probably step the timing back a degree or two and richen it slightly from peak power and call it a day.
Do you have HP tuners? It would be interesting to find out if you're making the best power right on that threshold. Sometimes you can step it back a degree or two and make the same power.
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No I do not have HP tuners. I"m not good enough at that yet, so I pay for a tune. I'm going to have Speed Fab do that on my car. I'm looking to have 11.3:1 or a little more out of it. I will be using a really ported 853 head or swaping to something else if I dont make the power I want.
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Well the fuel system is as done as it can be right now. I still haven't found a fuel pump tree.
I replaced all the old rubber lines with new EFI hose. The rotary fuel injection ran at 40 psi, and the ls engines run at 58 psi. I don't know if the old lines were rated to 58psi. They were also 15 years old. Its pretty cheap insurance to replace them now...especially since you can't get to any of it with the suspension in the car.
Here is the corvette FPR and some parts from the GTO. Parting out a whole car is nice when it comes to these kinds of things. You can recycle parts instead of getting nickel and dimed so bad. For those that don't know, the corvette FPR is a fuel filter and regulator in one. It regulates to 58 psi and bypasses the excess back to the tank.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1794.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1794)
I'm using the stock fuel filter mount to build the new setup around. The regulator fits perfectly, and everything is rubber isolated. If Mazda felt the need to rubber isolate this stuff its probably a good idea to keep it that way. It probably could transmit a lot of noise into the car with fuel going through it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1795.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1795)
Here it is in the car. This completes the fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay. I just need a fuel tank in the car and something in the engine bay to hook lines to and it will be complete. What's nice about this setup is you can bypass fuel right at the tank so you only need high pressure feed running up to the engine bay.
Don't yell at me. Those are not hose clamps.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1796.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1796)
Here the charcoal canister is back in place. The tank feeds vapor to the canister, and the canister feeds one of the hard lines going up to the engine bay. That hardline then connects to the intake so the gas vapors don't kill babies and flowers and stuff.
The mazda has a much simpler evap system compared to newer cars. The mazda canister vents to atmosphere all the time. The engine still sucks the vapor from the tank, but it never completely seals.
I'm going to hook the bottom vent on the canister to the now unused hardline going up to the engine bay. The middle line used to be the bypass from the rotary fuel rail. Up in the engine bay somewhere I will hook up the purge solonoid for the canister that I got from the GTO. With the solenoid hooked up, the engine should pull vacuum on the tank and everything should work great. I will just need to drill a hole for the vacuum sensor from the GTO and wire it up to make the computer happy.
I think I will be able to pass smog with this setup. A hardass ref will want the GTO canister in the car. I hope they will see the effort that went into making it work and allow it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1797.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1797)
Holy crap its back in the car!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Turbo_2_diff_install/Dir_1/medium_1798.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1798)
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Hey Dan how are you going to pass the sniffer with the motor work? Im conteplating a ls2 now because ls6 carries a premium.. your stroker Idea sounds great but Im worried that theyre no going to notice if its modded???
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Its going to pass because of a tiny tiny camshaft :) 210/218 on 116 with .560 and .558 lift or something. Its also on the GM lobe profiles. The stock ls7 cam is 210/230...but that is way too much of a split. This cam is an ls7 intake lobe and the bigger ls6 exhaust lobe on stock lsa.
With lots of overlap your hydrocarbons go through the roof. I think people have passed smog with the right 224/224 cam, but its all about overlap.
The next issue you can run into is NOX emissions. NOX goes up with power. More power, hotter combustion, more NOX. There isn't really a way to get around that, but I should be no where near that point at this power level.
There is no way to tell from the outside that the engine is actually a 6.6 instead of a 6.0. Except for the rotating assembly, every part I'm using is OEM.
Like I've said before, it definitely won't be the fastest stroker ever, but I've not read about any that are able to pass smog. However, a 400rwhp cam only ls2 vs this thing should be a night and day difference.
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I would just cheat the tune on the lean side to keep the NOX down. This is something that can be changed the day of the smog test.
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Its been a little while since I updated. Class starts again next week. Back to real life.
Still working on a bunch of different things. Moving forward slowly but surely. I still can't find a fuel pump tree. That is the last thing holding me back from finishing the fuel system.
All the engine parts have arrived for the last time from Livernois. They are great people to work with, and the parts are amazing quality. I'm really excited to get this engine put together. I'm trying to figure out who I can trust to take the block too. We've only been in socal for a couple years, and haven't had to do any machine work. We used the same shop for 15 years in norcal.
I put the car down on its wheels for the first time in a year. The garage also got cleaned for the first time in a year LOL. It was pretty disorganized, and too much floor space was taken up with parts and tools. I threw on one of my new wheels and tires for shits n giggles. I can't wait to see all 4 on there with a front end on the car.
The rear center caps turned out pretty nice. I think this may be a first. They are the stock center hub nut covers that mazda uses on the front of the car. In the back everyone just leaves the axle nut exposed if they don't have centercaps. If you take one of the mazda covers and dent it out with a press they fit in there just like the front. A nice plain centercap would still be nicer, but its better than the rusty axle sticking through.
Anyone ever built a rally car out of an rx7? I bet I could take some sweet jumps with the ride height this high.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_2013.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2013)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_2012.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2012)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_2011.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2011)
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nice progress cant wait to see what kind of #s you put down
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What are the sizes and offsets of the RPF1's? Also, what size tires did you go with?
Thanks,
Matt
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17x9 +45
Toyo R888 255/40/17
The toyos seem to be a wideeee 255. That isn't uncommon for r-comp tires though.
I can't tell you anything about fitment lol. No front fenders and 3 inches of extra ride height :poke:
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Thanks for the info. They do look pretty wide for 255's! If you used the same machine shop for 15 years and you were pleased with their work, it might be worth shipping the parts to them. It's not always as easy as one would hope to find someone that actually knows what they are doing. Just my .02
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Haha yeah....they were slipping towards the end to say the least. If I were to pay to ship the block I would send it somewhere that could hot hone the block. A local joint with a torque plate is good enough for me though. All the drag racing gurus down here don't have a torque plate for the new stuff. My just dad needs to call up some of the guys from the magazines and see who they use for the story builds.
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Could we get a close up of the center caps? thanks!
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I really like how your extended studs are tapered at the tips. Mines are just the normal threaded ones. Which ones did you go with?
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The studs are for a miata. I believe it was an NB, but I'm not 100% sure. ARP calls it their quick start tip. I found it helpful when putting the wheels on.
Here are a couple closer pictures of the caps in the back. The cap does need to be popped out to fit over the rear axle. A more tasteful centercap than enkei's would still be nice, but this isn't horrible.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_2119.JPG) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2119)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_2118.jpg) (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2118)
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Very interesting build! I (along with a lot of other guys I'm sure, and everyone on ls1tech) see a lot of lost potential in your setup, but with a cam/header/exhaust swap after you pass the bar this thing will make those little R888's cry.
I wasn't concerned with passing the ref when I put my car together since all the cop attention I've gotten is positive, but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on your thread as you get closer to inspection because I continually have customers asking me "how hard it is", etc. Building a car within the rules and actually passing the inspection might turn out to be two different challenges, or it might be cake.
Nice house, too.
I also dig seeing another white '94 touring being built... that's what I have as well :) *high five for the truly rare club*
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What are those cars off of. I remember reading it in your thread some were but cant find it now.
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Very interesting build! I (along with a lot of other guys I'm sure, and everyone on ls1tech) see a lot of lost potential in your setup, but with a cam/header/exhaust swap after you pass the bar this thing will make those little R888's cry.
I wasn't concerned with passing the ref when I put my car together since all the cop attention I've gotten is positive, but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on your thread as you get closer to inspection because I continually have customers asking me "how hard it is", etc. Building a car within the rules and actually passing the inspection might turn out to be two different challenges, or it might be cake.
Nice house, too.
I also dig seeing another white '94 touring being built... that's what I have as well :) *high five for the truly rare club*
Thanks! To be honest I know nothing about your car. I would love to see a few pictures of it. Were there any on the old site?
I really have no plans for a bigger cam at this point. I know I've mentioned it, but its more of a hypothetical ;) This package should really work well as a street car, which is my primary goal, and it will still be pretty damn fast. The first autocross is probably going to be quite the eye opener. It'll be a little different than my other experiences in miatas or a solstice.
The ref process sure is going to be interesting. I'm just hoping the guy isn't a dick. I want someone who is willing to work with me instead of trying to screw me over. The cats are going to be the lowest part on the car, and they will almost be touching the floor. That is the least appealing part about the whole smog legal thing so far. Everything else isn't a huge deal. The evap system should work when its all hooked up.
The house really worked out well. My dad was laid off right in the middle of the housing crisis and we had to move...which was less than optimal to say the least This home that we moved into was built and sold right before the crash, and the whole neighborhood depreciated to around 50% of the original sale value and everything was a short sale. It took a while for all the houses to get populated again. The property tax is pretty nuts, but the house is nice :)
What are those cars off of. I remember reading it in your thread some were but cant find it now.
Did you mean the caps? They are the caps that cover the spindle nut in the front of the car.
I have some more pictures I just haven't finished anything recently....maybe more this weekend :)
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Yes i meant caps my stupid phone likes to auto correct me with wrong words all the time. ::)
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its looking good! LOVE THIS CAR!
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Cant wait to see this beast run!!!!! :drive:
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Subscribed!! Great work from what i'm seeing! this is definitely going to be one clean machine.
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Thanks guys.
After Thanksgiving I will start to focus on this car again. My dad's race car is back together after a year and a half. That crosses a huge project off the list around here. My race car is together for the foreseeable future, and that doesn't leave much else other than my car to work on. It should go pretty quickly once I get after it.
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Maybe I should tow my rx7 project over to your place ^^
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I enjoyed reading your thread, You're very lucky to have access to all the tools you need in your garage for your build, especially the flow bench.
Good luck and keep us updated.
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I've definitely had a lot of opportunities in life that I am very thankful for. My dad is a packrat when it comes to tools and parts. We still use tools that his dad bought to build a race car when my dad was 13!
Slight update I suppose. The block is at the machine shop. Like the trend has been going, all the main housing bores were one thou over spec and the rear main was one thou out of round, with them getting more in round toward the front main.
So now while it gets honed they will align hone it too. Hopefully they don't screw the pooch ;)
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Bump for info
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Sorry don't have much to update.
I got the block back from the machine shop and measured it tonight. They did a supreme job of screwing up the align hone. As best I can tell, the cylinder bores seem correct. Without a torque plate I can't know for sure.
It needs to go back and it better get fixed for nothing or its going through the front window.
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Since my last post was so negative I figure I'll update again.
The machine shop redid the align hone for free no questions asked.
The mains are very close now. I think there is a 5 tenth difference between the 5 mains and they are all within spec. The out of round isn't perfect, bu it is well within reason. Machine work is NOT easy. The stock spec only allows for .0002" out of round.
So now the process of filling out a build sheet begins. Micrometers and dial bore gauges everywhere. Fitting bearings, splitting rods, stretching rod bolts, torquing and untorquing mains.
Very important stuff, but its extremely tedious and time consuming work :). Fun to play with all the goodies I bought months ago though! They aren't much fun sitting in a box.
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Where/what brand is the tool you used to remove the lower front ball joint?
Build is awesome btw. Car looks beautiful and strokers are fun ;)
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Thanks!
I am pretty sure the ball joint separator is blue point.
It looks similar to this
(http://www.samstagsales.com/SirTool/st266h.jpg)
The flat part slides under the spindle and you tighten the threaded part to pull it off the taper. It gets scary sometimes when it won't pop. Sometimes its better to get some tension against it and hit the top of the threaded part with a hammer to try and shock it loose. You could probably break the tool before some tapers let go.
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Thanks, I'm about to press out the front lower control arm bushings and would like to do it without the hub in the way :)
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I finally made the decision to buy an electric MR2 power steering pump tonight :D
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/art1976/021-3.jpg)
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so how's this car coming along these days?
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MIDTERMSSSSS :o Seriously though I am swamped with classes. I would be lying if I said I didn't have free time to work on it, but my motivation just isn't there most of the time. I also save too much crap to do on the weekends. Its my cleanup time for all the work I should have done already during the week.
My dad got a lot done on my engine last weekend while I was studying for fluids. He fit all the main bearings and most of the rod bearings. The stock oil pump is ported, bagged, and ready to install. He cleaned up the oil gallery passages in the block and oil pan to get rid of some of the sharp 90 degree bends. The oil takes a treacherous path through the block in these engines. It kills flow and creates heat, and there are a few places that can be ground on to help some.
I got my new ls3 heads to replace the lsa heads. I considered sending the LSA heads out to be ported, but in the long run I need the money to finish the car up. I've got enough set aside now that I think I can get it on the road with no hangups this summer. I bought the LSA heads when L92 heads cost $190 each. I just paid $290 a head for bare ls3 heads...Should have made the switch a long time ago!
For those that didn't see I picked up an 87 turbo 2 with a blown coolant seal to make a track car out of. I am free from the dual purpose trap of trying to make a street/track car. I couldn't stop thinking about all the expensive parts I needed to take the car on the track like bigger brakes, an accusump, stiffer suspension, a roll bar etc etc.
It feels great to have an ending in sight. Barring any major problems, I can have the car driving this summer. When it starts to go together it should go fairly quickly.
Here is a quick list of the big things off the top of my head -
Finish the engine
Wiring
Gas tank install and evap system sorted
Sound and heat insulation inside the car to some extent. I had planned on just doing the trans tunnel, but I am considering going all out. I have enough dynamat to do the tunnel right now which is making a strong case for doing that and leaving the rest alone.
Exhaust
Cooling system + AC + intake
Battery box in the storage bin
Reinstall the interior and new carpet install
Put the front bodywork back on
Tune it
500 grueling break in miles
Peel out :)
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Peel out :)
I like this part :drive: Where do you go to school and what type of engineering are you studying? I remember those days... seems like yesterday :P
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I go to Cal Poly Pomona and study mechanical engineering. I'm a senior but have almost 2 years of school left if that makes any sense. Lesson here is don't go to college during the worst budget crisis in history I suppose ;)
I enjoy it most of the time, but it is a lot of work. In a lot of ways its easier than I expected. It gets really stressful, but I generally do quite well. A lot of the stress is self inflicted too haha.
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I go to Cal Poly Pomona and study mechanical engineering. I'm a senior but have almost 2 years of school left if that makes any sense. Lesson here is don't go to college during the worst budget crisis in history I suppose ;)
I enjoy it most of the time, but it is a lot of work. In a lot of ways its easier than I expected. It gets really stressful, but I generally do quite well. A lot of the stress is self inflicted too haha.
Very nice, I've worked with a bunch of ppl that went to school there over the last couple years, all of them sharp as a whip. I actually thought about going there for undergrad but just couldn't stay away from the beach... too damn hot out there man! You may be better off staying in school while times are tough in the workplace world... if things are on an upswing when you get out you can capitalize on that ;)
Anyway good luck and look forward to seeing this car running around.
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:wave:
Got Samberg's diff brace installed today. Was a medium sized bitch to get in. Its a very nice piece, and very happy with it installed. Took a jack and a pry bar to get the two pieces to line up. The brace bolted right up to the floor of the car, and the other piece bolted nicely to the diff.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3397.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3397)
Also worked towards getting the trans crossmember installed, but ran into an issue.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3398.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3398)
There is a nice flat surface for it to sit on the driver's side, but not on the passengers side. Going to make a thread in Samberg's section and see what he suggests. I know this is an older version than what he sells now.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3399.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3399)
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Hey Daniel, awesome setup you got there. I noticed you mentioned that you're from the IE. My roomie and I are also working on two separate CARB legal LS setups. We should get together sometime to exchange notes.
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Hey Daniel, awesome setup you got there. I noticed you mentioned that you're from the IE. My roomie and I are also working on two separate CARB legal LS setups. We should get together sometime to exchange notes.
Neat stuff! There is going to be a small army of us in socal soon. Quite a few guys over in Orange County area already.
ABS delete officially finished today. Still need to bench bleed the master.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_3407.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3407)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_3408.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3408)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Freshened_rear_calipers/Dir_1/medium_3409.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3409)
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Is it finished yet?
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Is it finished yet?
Answer my trans mount question bish
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Mine was the same way. Massage the tunnel with a hammer from inside the car, and let the plates and bolts do the rest of the work :)
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Thanks. I found a couple pictures of the newer style. I'll see what Justin says when he writes me back. I'll either make this one work or order one of the newer crossmembers. The newer ones appear to have more ground clearance for the exhaust.
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Block and heads are at the machine shop to get surfaced. They said it'll be a couple weeks ::) When that comes back the engine can go together.
Got a little more done on the fuel system.
This came out of my rusted gas tank.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_3449.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3449)
Soooo I started fresh with one from da club. Needed to make a nice sealing surface for a stato-seal washer to seal against. Welded in a piece of a washer.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_3452.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3452)
Stato-seal goes on.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_3455.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3455)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_3458.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3458)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_3461.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3461)
I'm leaving the return line as is. I just needed to get from the -6 on the pump through the top of the plate. After the bulkhead I'm going to get a -6 to barb end and run the rubber line from there. Next is going to be mounting the pump nicely and getting the vacuum sensor through the plate for the evap system.
Also, my cell phone takes some damn good pictures.
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Felt the need to smash things after getting home from class this morning. Grabbed the 5 lb sledge and went to town.
This was the good side.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3462.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3462)
This side took a lot of punishment. I also had to bend the ear on the cross member very slightly. It was crooked in relation to how the plate wanted to sit on the floor in the car. Once I got it square to the plate I finally pulled it with a long bolt and a nut to get the floor to move the rest of the way flush. Removing the corner of the tar was pretty easy....I figured I'd try and remove a whole sheet of it.
Let me repeat what others have said. DO NOT USE HEAT TO REMOVE THE TAR. It sucks.
I'm just going to leave it there. I know people have had success with dry ice. It doesn't make that much of a difference to me. I'm going to dynamat the tunnel where the cats and exhaust will be and be satisfied.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3463.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3463)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_3464.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3464)
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I ended up putting my brace in the vice and bending the ear to conform to the body.
Either way, looks like you took care of it.
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Yeah I did a mixture of the two. The front bolt hole was misaligned with how the plate wanted to sit on the floor. I couldn't bend it all the way over or it would have bound up again.
The floor also had to move a good bit on the inside for the plate to fit.
It went quite a bit better than I expected. Originally it seemed like I'd have to cut bits off the plates.
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Got the shifter installed today. Cellphone camera does great in the daytime...not so good at night.
I test fit the LS3 camaro exhaust manifold on the driver's side and it clears with quite a lot of room around it. Its going to be tough to package the cats in there...but it'd be easy to build exhaust off it without a cat. Unfortunately the runners aren't that big. The L92 exhaust manifolds are significantly bigger, but really doesn't fit too well on the driver's side.
I just need to take measurements for the driveshaft and I can take the mockup block and trans out of the car.
Got my block and heads back from the machine shop. I'm hoping to get the engine put together pretty soon, maybe this weekend :yay:
I swapped my clutch disk with Monster. I ordered my clutch a year ago and they exchanged the disk no questions asked. Very happy! I traded in my stage 3 disk for a stage 2. With the shift in focus from dual purpose to street car it made sense to put a milder clutch in the car. If I ever go crazy with power I'll probably go with a dual disk clutch, so I'm not too worried about out growing it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Interior_1/Dir_1/medium_3472.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3472)
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I swapped my clutch disk with Monster. I ordered my clutch a year ago and they exchanged the disk no questions asked. Very happy! I traded in my stage 3 disk for a stage 2. With the shift in focus from dual purpose to street car it made sense to put a milder clutch in the car. If I ever go crazy with power I'll probably go with a dual disk clutch, so I'm not too worried about out growing it.
I did the same thing last year. The customer service at Monster is definitely top notch!
Keep up the good work
Lane
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Your car is sooooo clean I'm jealous! Good progress, I have the same shifter :) You should try fitting the pass side manifold... it's stupid tight fit with respect to clearance to the frame rails on my car with samberg cradle & 2002 f-body manifolds. :poke: The exhaust guy I went to managed to get cats in there, was some work, but it fits!
Got the shifter installed today. Cellphone camera does great in the daytime...not so good at night.
I test fit the LS3 camaro exhaust manifold on the driver's side and it clears with quite a lot of room around it. Its going to be tough to package the cats in there...but it'd be easy to build exhaust off it without a cat. Unfortunately the runners aren't that big. The L92 exhaust manifolds are significantly bigger, but really doesn't fit too well on the driver's side.
I just need to take measurements for the driveshaft and I can take the mockup block and trans out of the car.
Got my block and heads back from the machine shop. I'm hoping to get the engine put together pretty soon, maybe this weekend :yay:
I swapped my clutch disk with Monster. I ordered my clutch a year ago and they exchanged the disk no questions asked. Very happy! I traded in my stage 3 disk for a stage 2. With the shift in focus from dual purpose to street car it made sense to put a milder clutch in the car. If I ever go crazy with power I'll probably go with a dual disk clutch, so I'm not too worried about out growing it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Interior_1/Dir_1/medium_3472.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3472)
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Thanks!
Yeah I'll be test fitting the passenger side as well. I've not seen anyone who has run these manifolds before. It should work easily based on looking at the driver's side. It really does fit well. The bends are just going to be real tight right off the flange.
Does your floor get really hot from the cats being tucked up so tightly?
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Sounds nice. You're going to need a pretty good flowing exhaust mani to keep up with that motor of yours! I don't understand what people mean with all of this heat in the trans tunnel/floorboard... I was out for almost 4 hours non stop tuning session, thru hills, open road etc... I never felt like the shifter or floor got hot. Dunno... maybe I have a high tolerance for it or something. If you're out at Mazfest on sunday when I'm running the car you should ride along and see what you think. Or maybe on Saturday we can break out for a bit... see how much you sweat :P Honestly... i don't feel like it's a problem... maybe it's just me.
Thanks!
Yeah I'll be test fitting the passenger side as well. I've not seen anyone who has run these manifolds before. It should work easily based on looking at the driver's side. It really does fit well. The bends are just going to be real tight right off the flange.
Does your floor get really hot from the cats being tucked up so tightly?
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Well that's good to hear! Not too many people run cats on these things so its hard to find feedback about it.
I think you're right, I will have to do a full evaluation :yay:
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Got the monster stage 2 clutch disk a few days ago. Pretty surprised to see what it looked like. I've only seen pictures of their old dual friction disk. This is the same pattern and material on both sides. Never seen a pattern like this on a clutch before that's for sure!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_3481.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3481)
Got my heads cleaned and assembled. Forgot to snap a finished picture, but there's all the parts at least :chug:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Engine/Dir_1/medium_3480.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3480)
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Boy that's embarrassing.
I've been on winter break for a couple weeks now and have been trying to get as much done as possible. Little things have been getting done here and there over the past few months but nothing really worth writing about. Usually enough work gets done to find a new problem and get stuck until more parts show up.
I guess I'll get the bitching out of the way first. Some of you may have seen my post in the most regretted mod thread. This kind of explains a lot of the hold up I've been facing recently.
I guess the regret would be getting a used power plant? Even at 42k miles out of the GTO I parted the engine was destroyed. So instead of spending way too much money to rebuild it with stock parts I opted to put a forged rotating assembly in it. That engine has been a nightmare since day 1.
It took 3 shipments to get the correct/good rotating assembly to me.
1. Wrong pistons - crank balanced with those pistons - everything goes back
2. Crank was ugly and had a rusty journal. First crank looked like a work of art. Send everything back.
3. Everything looked great - went to assemble pistons and found they sent the wrong wrist pins.
The bores were out of round, deck wasn't square, and the main journals were about as round as an egg
The machine shop fucked my block up on the line bore...had to drive it back for them to fix their shit (still isn't great). First time it came back much worse than it was initially.
The center main is on the block crooked and was pinching the crank...had to burnish the thrust bearing to get it to spin freely.
Because it was line bored twice I'm on my 3rd timing set trying to get a timing chain that isn't too loose.
They cut too much off the deck when they squared it and now the pistons come .0015-17 out of the hole...can't use the ls3 gaskets. Need cometic$$$ made.
Going down the list just about everything has been resolved. I've finally got a timing chain on the engine that fits great. The last thing is the Cometics need to get here and the rest of the engine should be ready to go together.
I guess I'll just blast you guys with pictures now...little tough to catch up after so much time has passed :-[
Short block assembly:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4129.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4129)
Checking the crankshaft endplay
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4109.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4109)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4121.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4121)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4110.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4110)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4114.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4114)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4115.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4115)
Stretching the rod bolts
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4108.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4108)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4116.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4116)
Degreeing cam and finding the intake centerline: The cam was ground on 116 with a +2 advance. Luckily it actually installed in the engine exactly on 114. No monkeying with the cam sprocket required. There can be a stackup of errors that cause it to be installed in the wrong place.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4122.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4122)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4125.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4125)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4124.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4124)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4123.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4123)
Starting the carpet install: First test fit of the carpet. Quite a bit of slack going on. Got the jute laid in nicely today and just threw the carpet in last thing before it got dark. Tomorrow I'll lay it out in the sun to get more flexible and start trimming the excess. There is a ton of extra that thoroughly in the way at the moment.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4118.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4118)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_26_update/Dir_1/medium_4126.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4126)
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I forgot to add I've been pickup up quite a few parts recently. Knocked out some fairly time intensive projects by buying these parts. Bolt in stuff sounds quite nice at this point in time.
Radiator/intake - gave in and ordered the kit from Samberg. It really is a very nice looking kit and has clear performance advantages. I had planned on using a very nice be-cool radiator that we've got in the shed but I think I'll save that for another car. It would have worked well, but no chance of doing an over the rad intake and wouldn't look as nice. Also not bolt in :)
Driveshaft - picked up Marcus's old driveshaft since he's going to an 8.8
Battery - got a Shorai lithium battery for Christmas. Its 5 pounds and has 540 CCA.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/shorai-lithium-lfx36l3-bs12.html (http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/shorai-lithium-lfx36l3-bs12.html)
Case size. "3" is 6.55 L x 3.39 W x 6.10 H
I'll be putting this in the engine bay instead of trying to build a sealed battery box hidden under the rear bins with a questionable yellowtop optima. Its brand new, but has been sitting for a long ass time now since the car is taking a bit long to get running :poke:
And lastly I bought one of Shakenbake's sending unit kits for the mazda gauges. Happy with the kit. He's selling them here on the forum. If your car didn't come with the sending units I highly suggest picking these up. Was dreading tracking down used ones or having to buy them from mazda.
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9456.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9456.0)
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Got a lot done today. Used up my spray adhesive so I couldn't go any further. Ready to glue it down in a few places and cut some bolt holes. The carpet is fully in the car, just needs final trimming to go around the interior properly.
Warming it up in the sun.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_27_carpet_update/Dir_1/medium_4130.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4130)
Jute laid in to replace the foam backing of the stock carpet.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_27_carpet_update/Dir_1/medium_4131.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4131)
Crappy picture showing it in the car.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_27_carpet_update/Dir_1/medium_4132.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4132)
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Replaced the stock rotors with powerslot stock replacements from Centric. Early on in the build I had my rotors resurfaced when I replaced the brake pads. The fronts were cut for their last possible time and they were still way f'ed up. We're talking at least 30% of the surface wasn't touching when you spun them around.
The powerslots are nice. I put a pair on the front of my Miata too. They had a pretty good shudder coming to a stop and now are perfectly smooth.
The carpet is almost entirely trimmed now and is glued down in the pesky areas. Need to cut out for the bolt holes but its just about done! Pretty happy with the kit. The carpet looks great and it was molded pretty well. I've owned the carpet since August of 2009...so I'm very happy with how well it came back to life when I unfolded it. It is for sure not a very fun job though...can be frustrating to say the least.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_28_powerslots/Dir_1/medium_4133.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4133)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_28_powerslots/Dir_1/medium_4134.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4134)
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Getting very close! I believe the only thing left is the heads and valvetrain and it will be ready to be bolted to the trans. The intake goes on after it goes in the car.
Going to spend tomorrow getting the trans back in my dad's roadster so we can race this weekend. Hoping to get the heads on at the same time. The Cometics came in today. I believe they are .060 thick instead of the .050 thick stock ones.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_29_pan_on/Dir_1/medium_4135.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4135)
Had to space up the windage tray to clear the longer stroke. The pickup tube was going to be too low in the pan so it got rearranged by a bfh. Used some clay to check the thickness and it is right about 3/8 of an inch from the bottom of the pan. It was less than a 1/4 before the adjustment.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_29_pan_on/Dir_1/medium_4136.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4136)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/12_29_pan_on/Dir_1/medium_4137.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4137)
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Excellent!!
Really coming along now.
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Great work on the documentation. Looking real good, the attention to detail is great. I like how you handled the carpet. I may have to do something similar :) I like the power slot rotors, I have the same ones on my FD.
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looks great dude!
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Thanks guys. Feels really rewarding to finally be getting stuff done. Hit a long slump between school and the problems I was running into. Classes start up again next week but I hope to keep this momentum going for a while.
Fedex brought me a big box today :yay:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/White_94_cali_legal_ls2_swap/Dir_2/medium_4138.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4138)
Thinking of having it powdercoated. I was even considering anodizing it but the shroud is welded to the radiator already. Torn on the color, any inputs? Thinking about a flat/matte black or maybe even a silver.
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you can paint the intake filter support shoud. maybe go with white for your car? you wont really see the rest of it
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I polished mine :)
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Pics?
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I bought mine and it was powercoated flat black looks good.. im about to start my build again and I can't wait to see it in the car!! here take a look at my build thread there is some pics of the Samberg V1 kit! Love the your attention to details! Im the same way!!
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=5130.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=5130.0)
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Nice! I'll probably do flat black on the radiator shroud and silver on the expansion tank. The silver may sound tacky but it looks real nice.
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Welp classes start back up tomorrow. Had a really productive break..that's for sure. The engine is almost complete as of tonight.
Drilled some drainage holes in the lifter trays.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4149.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4149)
New lifters.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4150.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4150)
Arp head studs threaded in.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4151.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4151)
.060 thick Cometics. Stock is .050 or .051. The engine will be right at 11:1 and now the pistons won't hit the heads :)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4155.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4155)
Copper coat applied to both sides of the gasket.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4152.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4152)
Measured for push rod length. The stockers will work just fine at 7.400".
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4154.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4154)
Gettin' there...
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_2_12_update/Dir_1/medium_4153.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4153)
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I hate you and im mad jelly...i hope i can make mine cali legal...well thats what im shooting for atleast
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hah mah classes don't start until the 23rd. :yay:
That engine looks like a Turkish delight.
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Pics?
No resent pics but here's one from my build. I had to hit it with the polishing wheel again after this. It got a lot of minor scratches during the build.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/rx7what/casey750.jpg)
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Thanks for the pic. I think I'm pretty set on flat black.
The engine is basically finished at this point! I'm looking into doing an engine dyno day. I'd really like to get the engine broken in properly. It really won't be possible for me to accomplish that in the garage. This engine has had so much work and money put into it that I can pretty easily justify the extra cost to ensure its finished correctly.
Valvetrain assembled and pre-oiled. The rockers all tightened down between 1.25 and 1.75 turns, which was acceptable.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/engine_done_1_8_12/Dir_1/medium_4156.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4156)
Decided that this is where I'm going to get oil pressure to the mazda oil pressure sender. This is where they get oil for the oil temp gauge in corvettes. It is sealed off on the camaro pans, but easy to drill out.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/engine_done_1_8_12/Dir_1/medium_4157.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4157)
There it is...
I do need to get my crank pulley honed out. Its like a .0015 press right now which is way too much. Need to make it like half that much.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/engine_done_1_8_12/Dir_1/medium_4158.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4158)
Also pulled the mock up block and trans out of the car. Happy to find that the front seal is dry as a bone. The trans was dripping oil out the front and was worried about having to open it up. Turns out it was just engine oil from the leaky rear main seal. Going to clean this pig up and it should be ready to go back in.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/engine_done_1_8_12/Dir_1/medium_4159.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4159)
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Wow. I'm beat lol.
This is a lot of work, but damn it is looking nice. Also, my entire car now is almost impossible to take a picture of. My camera can't take a good picture of white cars, and now I've found out it can't take good pictures of black carpet.
The carpet install is really close to done. It just needs a little trimming by the kick panels to make them fit. I want to wait until they can go on permanently before I put them in. I ordered some snazzy carbon fiber door sills from Ronin. My stock ones had some gouges in the plastic and the passenger side barely stayed on. So much broken plastic in this car :( Par for the course I suppose.
After that it just needs one last spray of glue on the trans tunnel for the carpet and I can put the console on. I'll probably wait until I'm done crawling under the dash before I put that in though.
The trans is all clean and ready to bolt to the engine. I'll have the damper back next week and then the engine can go in the car.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_15_12_update_rear_interior_+_carpet/Dir_1/medium_4180.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4180)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_15_12_update_rear_interior_+_carpet/Dir_1/medium_4181.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4181)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_15_12_update_rear_interior_+_carpet/Dir_1/medium_4179.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4179)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_15_12_update_rear_interior_+_carpet/Dir_1/medium_4183.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4183)
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Whats with the two different style of rocker arms?
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They are ls3 heads so the intake valve is offset slightly due to the larger valve size. They make up for the offset in the rocker arm. The exhausts I just reused the ls2 rockers.
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Whats with the two different style of rocker arms?
Thats the gen IV style rockers.
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Ahhhh got ya. Good to know
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Well shit.
Was going to get the engine and trans in the car today after bleeding the brakes. Turns out my master cylinder is broken. Sat too long and got rusty and the bypass valve froze up. The front piston just pushed fluid back into the reservoir instead of sealing and pushing it to the calipers.
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I told you that motor and trans wasn't going in the car today....
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I told you that motor and trans wasn't going in the car today....
A sphincter says what?
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what. wait i mean.... damn you're good :yay:
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Some good stuff coming this update :) Catching up with last weekend first -
Crank pulley went on easy after having .0003 honed out of it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4222.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4222)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4223.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4223)
Monster clutch stuff all put on
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4225.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4225)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4226.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4226)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4227.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4227)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4224.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4224)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4228.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4228)
This is where I was at last weekend when we went to bleed the brakes and the master was broken.
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Looking good sir.
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Hit 4 junkyards in the past week to go looking for brake parts. Since I was going to have to replace the master I figured it was a good time to track down a bigger master cylinder. Clocker on the forum has had good luck with a subaru 1 1/16 inch master cylinder and brake booster combo. Grabbed one out of a '96 2.2L thinking the booster was the same design. Long story short, the booster didn't quite fit my car. He got his brakes off of a 97 2.5L and all we can assume is that the booster is slightly different.
Hit another couple yards yesterday to go look for some more subies and mazdas. Amazingly, we stumbled across a mythical 1993 mazda 929. I'm pretty stoked to say that I've now got a 1 inch 929 master cylinder on the car. People generally really like the 1 inch mc with the stock sized brakes, and if I ever put larger brakes on the car I'd like to have the bigger mc.
A couple lines had to be remade, but nothing major. The two short ones going down to the prop valve were all that changed. Got the brakes bled and the pedal is rock solid.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4229.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4229)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4230.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4230)
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And now for the main event :yay:
Wasn't bad, but we've had some practice taking the mock up block in and out.
Managed to miss that the bulge in the tunnel where the old trans mount bolted to is about 10 thou away from hitting the trans right now. Looks like I can get in there with a long sawzall blade. Would have been much easier to take care of with the trans out of the car...but it shouldn't be too terrible.
Still a lot of work to do, but it sure does feel good to get the engine in the car!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4231.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4231)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/1_29_12_update_engine_in/Dir_1/medium_4233.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4233)
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Looking good sir.
You treed me :P
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Very nice!
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Get this thing on the road already!! I was going to stop by your house today to show you my new paint, but i didn't want your dad to look at my engine bay... :'(
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Lol coulda kept the hood closed :poke:
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Any updates? This thing running yet?
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subscribed....
kudoes from a fellow mechanical engineer.... way to put those ME skills to use!!!
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20 year old showing me up. Awesome :).
I'm an aspiring ME student as well. Started at VT but partied too much and world of warcraft.....fail, and never made it to ME :(. At a community college and in the marine reserves now. Plan to graduate from ODU. Having a dad that is into cars is nice haha. My dad is into jeeps, cares little for my build lol
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Yeah whats up here? You have been looking at matt's thread too much
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Yeah whats up here? You have been looking at matt's thread too much
Say it ain't so. :yay:
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Yeah whats up here? You have been looking at matt's thread too much
My balls, your mouth.
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Yeah whats up here? You have been looking at matt's thread too much
Hahahaha! I love the fact that the shit throwing curved right around me and hit Matt square in the face.
Sadly nothing has happened since the engine went in :( Its been distraction more than anything. I got real busy with racing for a few weeks where every weekend was filled up. Then the past two weeks have been the end of quarter with tons of shit to do and then finals...so yeah. I'm on spring break now and just dodged jury duty summons for the week! I was contemplating fugitive status if I got selected for a jury :secret: Should be able to get some small stuff knocked out this week.
On a completely unrelated note I got our FC project half way stripped this afternoon. Engine and trans should come out with another hour or two of work.
20 year old showing me up. Awesome :).
I'm an aspiring ME student as well. Started at VT but partied too much and world of warcraft.....fail, and never made it to ME :(. At a community college and in the marine reserves now. Plan to graduate from ODU. Having a dad that is into cars is nice haha. My dad is into jeeps, cares little for my build lol
All I can say is stick with it after you're done with your GE. I transferred in with all my GE done and I'm glad I did it that way. I definitely made it through community college with a high school mentality. That lasted a couple quarters after transferring and then I got my shit sorted. It was mostly a subconscious unwillingness to learn. I'd half ass shit I didn't like hoping it'd go away :P. It depends on your professor, but it comes down to practice more than anything. If the test is the first time you're seeing the material you're not going to bs your way to a passing grade in engineering!
Even if you don't go into engineering as a career the knowledge you gain is very helpful! You gain a lot of problem solving skills that apply to all facets of life.
Good luck with the marines! I've considered working for the military as a civi, but I'm too much of a pansy to enlist.
subscribed....
kudoes from a fellow mechanical engineer.... way to put those ME skills to use!!!
Any updates? This thing running yet?
Thanks, and welcome to the forum!
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Hey Daniel :wave: I am amazed how clean your workspace is, that is something else. Every time there is a windstorm (uh, yesterday) all kinds of shit gets blown in my garage, I love it :punch: Isn't it nice to work on clean parts in a clean room lol :) Can't wait to see this car running. Hope all else is well you are are on the path to great things my friend :cheers:
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Its been distraction more than anything. I got real busy with racing for a few weeks where every weekend was filled up.
lol, must be rough!
jealous
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Hey Daniel :wave: I am amazed how clean your workspace is, that is something else. Every time there is a windstorm (uh, yesterday) all kinds of shit gets blown in my garage, I love it :punch: Isn't it nice to work on clean parts in a clean room lol :) Can't wait to see this car running. Hope all else is well you are are on the path to great things my friend :cheers:
Shockingly the wind didn't get here in Rancho. We did get a ton of rain though. Saturday was a solid 2 inches. The snow came down to 2000 feet on the mountain, which is only 800 feet up from my house. This is a picture my dad was sent from a coworker up at Big Bear.
http://imgur.com/LciMT (http://imgur.com/LciMT)
I do get a ton of dirt in through the doors. The seals are pretty good but it just gets everywhere when the wind blows lol. The faux cleanliness must be strategic photographs because I'm kind of a slob haha! For engine work the garage always gets a big clean before the final assembly though so maybe that's what you see ;).
lol, must be rough!
jealous
I see a shrink to get me through the tough times :'(
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I'm with ya, racing has its painful times.
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I'm with ya, racing has its painful times.
Like when your drag strip gets shut down... Plenty of free weekends this year ::)
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I'm with ya, racing has its painful times.
Like when your drag strip gets shut down... Plenty of free weekends this year ::)
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU... yeah... :'(
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Well things have been interesting around here. I'm half way through another quarter. I couldn't get into all the classes I needed this quarter...so I'm only in one class. Instead I shifted the burden over to this summer where I will be completely swamped :(
However! I applied for a position and was hired as a production engineering intern at a local orthodontic manufacturing company. I've been working there a few weeks and its been going really great. I have a little cash coming in the support the build and I have a very light amount of homework this quarter seeing as I'm only in one class. I'm still busy, but my work load isn't keeping me from working on the car like it usually does.
As such things have been progressing along and there's been some good recent progress.
First of all, I found some awesome exhaust manifolds made by hooker headers. They were debuted at last year's sema show and fit the car PERFECLTY. I don't have any pictures in the car yet because they don't fit on an engine with head studs.... I need to shorten one head stud on each side and they will go right in. The manifolds themselves are similar to LS3 Camaro manifolds, but they don't flare out at the bottom. They hug in tight to the block and basically route directly into the ideal position for exhaust to leave the engine bay. These are about as good as its going to get on a cast manifold, and they weren't too expensive. On summit they were about $280 for a pair. My only gripe is they kept the tiny outlet diameter...but they should be worth a good chunk of power for me AND most importantly they fit much better than the LS3 manifolds. I just need to grind the hooker logo off and paint them black to sneak by the smog nazis ;)
http://www.holley.com/8501-5HKR.asp (http://www.holley.com/8501-5HKR.asp)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/4_30_12_update_fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_4513.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4513)
Next up is the fuel system which is now 95% completed. I finished up my fuel pump mounting superstructure and sorted out some logistics issues I was having. The first issue is that I did not know how I was going to get wires through the gas tank to the pump and keep it reliably sealed up. I wound up modifying a -8 bulkhead and ran two 12 gauge wires through it. I then filled it with 5 minute epoxy that when cured is resistant to gasoline. I will be heat shrinking the wires in the tank with teflon heat shrink tubing to protect the insulation from the gasoline. They also make teflon insulated wiring but I didn't think about this until Mefarri brought it up after I had finished working on it. Teflon is extremely chemical resistant and will never break down in gasoline.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/4_30_12_update_fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_4514.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4514)
Second issue was that I did not know how to get from my -6 bulkhead to the fuel hard lines in the car. I am adamant about not running steel braided hose on a street car. Personally I know that I WILL NOT keep up on checking it for leaks because I'm lazy and want the car to be free of stupid maintenance issues like that. Not only can the fittings be unreliable, but I have experienced a few cases where braided line fails without any warning. You cannot tell when it is going to fail because the rubber line inside is completely kept out of view by the steel braid. I'd rather not be spraying fuel all around hot exhaust at over 60psi.
Anyways, I wound up flaring this little section of tube for a -6 connector, and on the other end I made a bubble for the OEM quick disconnect style fittings. This is the quick disconnect off the fuel rail of my LS2. It has a nifty little latch to keep the fitting from blowing off if it comes loose. While its not ideal, from here I will run 3/8 EFI hose to the 5/16 lines in the car. The 3/8 line clamps down very hard on the 5/16 line and I have zero worries about it coming loose.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/4_30_12_update_fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_4515.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4515)
Lastly it just got bench pressed up into the car! Need to go back into it to do the heat shrink and then wire up the fuel pump but that just about covers it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/4_30_12_update_fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_4516.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4516)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/4_30_12_update_fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_4517.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4517)
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Awesome update!!!!! I like those manis.... no provision for AIR???? :punch:
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No AIR on an ls2 :yay:
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Any idea how the slight difference in angle would improve clearance for the 2010+ OEM Camaro Cats? The factory manifolds aim straight down at the Samberg subframe.
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I would love to test fit them if I could get my hands on some.
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EDIT: Now that I compare the two pics, the Hooker ones have more of a rearward angle to them.
Interesting. I think there is a guy on here from down under who uses these (manifolds, not sure about cats) on a right hand drive FD. The LS3 camaro manis appear to have a similar angle to them like the ls1 fbody cars if I'm not mistaken. See this pic.
(http://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11262.0;attach=14600;image)
and thread
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=11262.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=11262.0)
C6 Vette manis point straight down and not sure about the other GM stuff.
Any idea how the slight difference in angle would improve clearance for the 2010+ OEM Camaro Cats? The factory manifolds aim straight down at the Samberg subframe.
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Well shit has gotten real. May 20th will be 3 years that I have had this car.
I have placed a 2 month goal in place. Not quite sure what the objective is, but it will be significant. I'm thinking something like "completed except for exhaust" or something like that. Feel free to make fun of me when that date dissolves.
I also just ordered HPtuners pro. Ouch.
I did a lot of preliminary wiring work today. My engine harness is completely cleaned and labeled. I need to extend O2 sensor wires but other than that its just about ready to go on.
I did a lot of research about the rest of the mods needed and it really seems very simple. Burtoncr has an excellent LS2 wiring guide in the electronics section. I feel like I can tackle this no problem. I also bought an x-14 connector which will make my life much easier while wiring under the dash.
Also just remembered I need to order an AC condenser, and I'm looking into an MSD window switch for the AC compressor logic.
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Yay for deadlines and summer jobs!
I thought the LS3 Camaro manifolds bolt up?
If you need wiring help or what-not, hollar.
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The ls3 manifolds do bolt up, but the flange is very tight along the frame. There is no need for them to flare out at the bottom like they do.
I guess I never took a picture of it.
Also, while they do support 430hp stock I was hoping the Hooker ones flowed a bit better.
Thanks for the offer to help with wiring. Hopefully I won't need to take you up on it :)
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Sweet build! I hate emission controls.. but I think its cool to build something fast that follows the rules...
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I would love to test fit them if I could get my hands on some.
Found some pictures (below) from before I put the engine in while the Samberg subframe was mocked up. This is the stock LS3 camaro manifolds and cats. As can be seen in the pictures, the stock manifolds flare out slightly and are angled straight down. This points it directly at the subframe making it unlikely that it will fit without at least some modification to the cat pipe. The Holley manifolds seem to eliminate the extra flare and tuck into the block more than the LS3 camaro manifolds. Beyond that, as mdpalmer said above, it looks like the Holley manifolds are angled slightly toward the rear, as opposed to straight down like the stock manifolds. Both of these differences seem to improve the chances of the the stock cats fitting with minimal modification. Considering the price and the fact that I already have the cats, I might just pick up a set and give it a shot. It's a potentially easier solution than modifying what I already have.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/DailyDSM/RX7%20Project/2012-02-19154445.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/DailyDSM/RX7%20Project/2012-02-19154510.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/DailyDSM/RX7%20Project/2012-02-19154503.jpg)
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Believe me...its not something I enjoy either. I'm just looking forward to having a nice driving car. In my opinion a nice driving car requires enough power to get out of its own way :)
The nice thing about having all the wiring is that I can wire the appropriate colors together. There is enough wire left on the diagnostic port and the throttle pedal to reach the ECM in the car.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Wiring_Bonanza/Dir_1/medium_4525.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4525)
Anyone want a slightly used GTO dash harness? :yay:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Wiring_Bonanza/Dir_1/medium_4524.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4524)
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You should see the tubs of extra wiring harnesses I have... someone lied to me and told me I could get $3/lb for the copper, so I kept the scraps for a year or so. Sigh.
Looks like you're moving right along!
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Hahaha!
I've got an x14 connecter coming that will make my life a lot easier. Just need to pick up some butt splices and good heatshrink and I can jump into it.
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DailyDSM thank you for the pictures! I never noticed your post before.
I have lot of pictures test fitting the hooker manifolds on my car. They fit like a charm....after cutting one of my head studs :'(
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=11666.msg161121#msg161121 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=11666.msg161121#msg161121)
Primed my engine with oil today. My dad duplicated a contraption he had built at his old job to force oil into an LS engine. It went very smoothly considering how catastrophically bad it could have gone. Ran about 20psi on the beastly harbor freight air compressor and it slowly pushed 6 quarts into the engine.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4544.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4544)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4545.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4545)
Here is where the oil pressure sender for the mazda gauge will live.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4546.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4546)
Put my driveshaft in.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4547.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4547)
Not sure if I've posted about this bad boy yet or not. Its a Shorai lithium battery. Its the biggest one they make for a cruiser motorcycle. And yes, this little 5 pound battery has 540 CCA :) Puts the optima I was going to use to shame. It was a little pricey at $320, but hey its cool! I'm thinking I will mount it over near the stock location.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4549.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4549)
The engine harness is in the car and its probably in there for good right now. Made the executive decision that the computer is going to go where the ABS unit used to be. It fits really nicely there and is not offensive at all. It will mount up very nicely on that triangle section of sheet metal. I'm going to use rubber isolated standoffs to mount to.
The C1 blue ECM connector is fully pinned out and ready to be loomed up. The unused wires have been cut back and will be taped together near the base. I am going to make it plug and play with weatherpacks for the connections inside the car. There are a few connectors you pull from in the passenger side, the OBDII plug, and the gas pedal inside the car.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/5_5_12_update___engine_harness_ds_battery_oil/Dir_1/medium_4551.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4551)
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My deadline is seeming manageable so far ;) Lots to do, but the more fiddly stuff that gets knocked out the better I feel. Its easy to put stuff together...the problem is when you have to fabricate and make things fit.
Wiring is moving along nicely. The computer is finish mounted and turned out nicely. You can't even see it from the front of the car.
Didn't get any pictures but the blue C1 connector is fully loomed and is run off to the appropriate locations. It just needs to be spliced into the interior and exterior wiring. Surprisingly I'd consider he wiring about half way complete maybe more!
The intake and accessories are ready to go on the engine now that the engine harness is in place.
Been talking with my dad about the exhaust. Pretty sure we're running dual 2.5" 304 stainless front to back with the cats, dual resonators by the driveshaft, and one or two mufflers in the back depending on how I want it to look. When the time is right the car will be moved across the driveway to the 2 car garage which houses the tig welder and the fun will begin!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Wiring_Bonanza/Dir_1/medium_4561.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4561)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Wiring_Bonanza/Dir_1/medium_4560.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4560)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Wiring_Bonanza/Dir_1/medium_4562.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4562)
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Hey Daniel,
Your build is really coming a long nicely, I can't wait to see it when its all said and done. Next time I am in the rancho area I would love to check it put if your around.
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Sure thing Anthony just give me a heads up!
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thats a neat way to prime it. I have found that using the oil sender to fill about 2 qts in the motor and then cranking it 3 time with 10 min waits will prime a LSX motor very well too.
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looks good!
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How are you planning on wiring your fans? You can get rid of those fuses on the pass side of the engine bay if you're not going to use them. Ask Rx7what (Casey) about what he did, his engine bay is practically devoid of wires, IIRC he managed to get rid of the relay box on the D/S too, I never looked into it, but that would clean things up even more.
And those mounting bushings/pads for the PCM, are those pre existing holes? How did you secure the bushings, thru bolt /w nut on the other side? It looks fabulous 8)
^ EDIT: stupid question... what are the chances those holes would be there already and fit the PCM lol I'm retarded. Looks great though, like it should of come from the factory!
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Haha! Yeah those holes go straight into the inner fender well. I believe they're leftover standoffs from MSD ignition boxes.
Factory like integration is the goal. I don't want anything to look like it didn't belong there.
I haven't decided on fan wiring yet. I think what I'm going to do is have one fan come on with the AC and slow speed, and then both fans be on for high speed. I may get lazy and just run both fans all the time.
Redoing the front harness is something I'd like to tackle in the future. I decided quite a while ago I'm just going to get it running with that wiring as is with slight modifications.
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You can get rid of those fuses
I'm an f'n tard. I meant to say they are relays (essentially electircal switches), NOT fuses. At any rate... car looks great :)
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I knew what you meant :yay:
Also thanks zbrown
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Well the fuel system is as done as it can be right now. I still haven't found a fuel pump tree.
I replaced all the old rubber lines with new EFI hose. The rotary fuel injection ran at 40 psi, and the ls engines run at 58 psi. I don't know if the old lines were rated to 58psi. They were also 15 years old. Its pretty cheap insurance to replace them now...especially since you can't get to any of it with the suspension in the car.
Here is the corvette FPR and some parts from the GTO. Parting out a whole car is nice when it comes to these kinds of things. You can recycle parts instead of getting nickel and dimed so bad. For those that don't know, the corvette FPR is a fuel filter and regulator in one. It regulates to 58 psi and bypasses the excess back to the tank.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1794.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1794)
I'm using the stock fuel filter mount to build the new setup around. The regulator fits perfectly, and everything is rubber isolated. If Mazda felt the need to rubber isolate this stuff its probably a good idea to keep it that way. It probably could transmit a lot of noise into the car with fuel going through it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1795.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1795)
Here it is in the car. This completes the fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay. I just need a fuel tank in the car and something in the engine bay to hook lines to and it will be complete. What's nice about this setup is you can bypass fuel right at the tank so you only need high pressure feed running up to the engine bay.
Don't yell at me. Those are not hose clamps.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1796.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1796)
Here the charcoal canister is back in place. The tank feeds vapor to the canister, and the canister feeds one of the hard lines going up to the engine bay. That hardline then connects to the intake so the gas vapors don't kill babies and flowers and stuff.
The mazda has a much simpler evap system compared to newer cars. The mazda canister vents to atmosphere all the time. The engine still sucks the vapor from the tank, but it never completely seals.
I'm going to hook the bottom vent on the canister to the now unused hardline going up to the engine bay. The middle line used to be the bypass from the rotary fuel rail. Up in the engine bay somewhere I will hook up the purge solonoid for the canister that I got from the GTO. With the solenoid hooked up, the engine should pull vacuum on the tank and everything should work great. I will just need to drill a hole for the vacuum sensor from the GTO and wire it up to make the computer happy.
I think I will be able to pass smog with this setup. A hardass ref will want the GTO canister in the car. I hope they will see the effort that went into making it work and allow it.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/Fuel_system/Dir_1/medium_1797.JPG) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1797)
Definitely quoting this bad boy... I need to keep this on file while I get my Cali swap underway.
Where did you get those fuel specific clamps?
I suppose I could use one of those to help plug the hole on the side of my brake booster too.
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Those specific ones are German clips that I couldn't find again. My dad had a box of them from back in the day and I used em up. I took an example to a hose warehouse place and they had a box of something similar. Definitely the way to go for high pressure line.
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Hey Daniel... Been a while since I checked out the progress. Looks like you're getting close. Can't wait to see it in person.
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any new updates?
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car looks sweet man. Hurry up and finish it.
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I await the finish of this bad boy.... also looking for info/experience with BAR.
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Just finished going through your build. Teh SeX! :o What much else is there to say. I love the white/black combination. If/when I pick up an FD, I will try to find it in white as well.
-Shaun
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Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
So. Wow. Lol.
I considered just not updating this thread until the car was running because this is so gross.
Anyways, the past year I've been kind of busy.
- Moved out and back in twice, which means I was away from the car for 6 months
- Finally graduated with my bachelors in mechanical engineering (walked at least...finishing my last class right now)
- Worked at Space Exploration Technologies as an intern building rocket parts...pretty awesome (also, money :bacon: :bacon: :bacon: :yay:)
- Made our wagon bracket car immensely more badass
The big thread bump-worthy news is that the car has moved to the big boy garage. My house has a split garage, and the FD has always been in the reject 1 car space. The 2 car garage has all the tools and work space...and most importantly a tig welder. Its time to build an exhaust system!
Non bump-worthy news has been a lot of wiring and miscellaneous work going on. The car is mostly done. Its just a bunch of little things here and there that are hard to summarize.
What I'm working on now is building up the engine bay from the firewall out. I want to get all major components in the bay so I can look at where I want to mount the battery. With the tiny batter I'm running I should be able to mount it cleanly near the stock location. To finish the wiring I need to mount the battery and figure out where my main power lugs are going to be.
In case anyone forgot what it looks like...
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/7_21_13_update/Dir_1/medium_5973.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5973)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/7_21_13_update/Dir_1/medium_5974.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5974)
And the wagon...
My dad bought an L92 crate engine back in 2010 for a screamin deal. Our parts guy had a truck load of 100 of them and sold us one at cost. We finally got around to putting it in the wagon and boy does it run good!
We are still running way conservative on timing and fuel. Its only running 24 degrees max timing and about 12.3:1 in high gear.
So far its been 10.50's at 127 in TERRIBLE Bakersfield weather.
The build is stock short block L92
Comp Cams 239/251 .624/.62 on 110 w/ dual valve springs
Lingenfelter CNC ported heads
ARP main studs and rod bolts
Single plane intake with a Holley 750 - port matched big time
MSD 6-LS ignition controller
1 3/4 to 1 7/8 step headers by hedman headers
(http://i.imgur.com/QeNJVh.jpg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/7_21_13_update/Dir_1/medium_5975.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5975)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/7_21_13_update/Dir_1/medium_5976.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5976)
Wagon Irwindale Testing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQc47FVXHg#ws)
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Wagon looks fun :)
... but not as much fun as the FD, get to it!
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Great update. Congrats on the graduation and job @ SpaceX. That must be fun :gruffy: Almost there dude..... look forward to seeing it running around.
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Great update. Congrats on the graduation and job @ SpaceX. That must be fun :gruffy: Almost there dude..... look forward to seeing it running around.
Thanks Mike! I really enjoyed my time living out by the beach even though it was in Long Beach... Was hard to adjust to the inland weather again. I'm definitely planning on going back once I start making grown up money. Hoping to buy a house out by you someday :)
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Did the stock LS2 manifolds just have no chance fitting? Also, do you still have the gas tank from the GTO? I'm wondering how will it would fit in an FD.
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any new updates?
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I have done a lot of work, but is mostly fiddly things and wiring. It's the kind of stuff you work 50 hours on and nothing looks any different lol.
Its a lot of work to just wrap things up. I prefer the bigger milestone kind of things with clearly defined goals and steps to get there. Most of what's left is finding a problem and having to build/buy/make something that works.
I should have some mandrel bent stainless 2.5" to start the exhaust this week.
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I'm local to you, would love to check it out in person/lend a hand sometime. :yay:
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First of many pieces... Looking real nice so far. Hard to get a good shot of it. Ground clearance is really good. The cat is about half an inch higher than the chassis braces in the back of the car.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/exhaust/Dir_1/medium_6853.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6853)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/exhaust/Dir_1/medium_6854.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6854)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/albums/exhaust/Dir_1/medium_6855.jpg) (https://www.norotors.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6855)
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Wow, that fits really nice.
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Thanks Blake! Its great to start making progress on the exhaust. It is probably the last major undertaking to get this thing done. Everything else is pretty much fiddly things.
The manifolds are the hooker exhaust manifolds. The tubing is 2.5" mandrel bent stainless. The cats are from the 06 GTO. They have a pretty unique shape and even though they are a lot bigger than some of the other GM cats I've seen they fit pretty well. Not easy to fit, but fit well in the right spot. The openings have been hogged out to nearly 3". They were choked down to a crazy small opening and when stock stuck directly on the exhaust manifold.
First goal is to get to the X-pipe behind the trans mount. The passenger side will be easier. Lots more space for the cat to go.
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Sexy :D
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So the FD has obviously been sitting idle. It's at the bitch 5% left stage where everything is custom and a pain in the ass. Lack of progress is due to the drag strip at Fontana opening back up in April. My dad and I raced a total of 23 weekends this year and kicked all their asses. Total we took in about 9 grand in winnings which is extremely awesome, especially considering it is a 5 mile tow from the house.
We've got a few months off for "winter" and are hoping to get some projects knocked out. The FD is taking up space in the garage so it's becoming a priority. I have a 74 Vega wagon on the back burner that we're itching to get started on.
Hope to be posting more updates in the near future :)
Panoramic
(http://i.imgur.com/L5bhaoM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/s9KIzXy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RVNpH9c.jpg)
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Well that fits rather nicely! Nice work!
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Hope I gave you just a little push to keep working on this thing :D... nice meeting you Daniel!
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Exhaust looks great. Also, nice haul from racing. That's sweet.
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VERY nice work Daniel. I'm hoping to get my exhaust buttoned up here soon and I hope it looks as good as your work so far :)
Lane
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The exhaust turned out really nice....good job and your pics are good to.
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Thanks guys! Wish I could take credit for the fabrication. This is all my dad's work while I help out. I feel like a little kid handing wrenches, but the exhaust is turning out badass!
Matt it was fun meeting you too. Hope we can hang out sometime in the future. If you get too cold way up north come hang out in Socal for a while.
Next step is getting the dual exhaust past the differential and then making some mufflers for it.
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So these are kinda cool. 15" long and about 4.25" diameter. Full 2.5" flow path.
(http://i.imgur.com/0UFxxgt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1QRlz9E.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/F5LUE9I.jpg)
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Look bitchin'! They might be 2.5" ID, but it flows much less than a 2.5" ID smooth pipe.
Cool mufflers none-the-less, and for a smog-legal <500hp setup, two of those should be great. Sound-wise you might actually be a little too quiet!
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Yes, my car is surprisingly quiet with longtubes and a dual 3 inch system with 6 inch round magnaflows.
That setup should be downright tolerable.
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The significance of the true 2.5" ID was that a lot of 2.5" core mufflers neck down to significantly less than that through the perf area. Any muffler will flow less than straight pipe haha. These flow 450cfm each.
Hehehe just brainstorming :secret: We'll see how they look in the car. Might be too long.
(http://i.imgur.com/x3iP9C2.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/NqcbqdK.jpg?1)
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Yea you need to do that.
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Looks great man.
I noticed you mentioned bakersfield, do you live there or were you just up at famoso? I ask because i live here and the scene is slim and none.
BTW- the weather is always terrible in Bakersfield. Lol
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(http://greenstateservices.com/images/products/detail/SoundOutEarMuffs.jpg)
I'll just leave these here for ya :yay:
Lane
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It won't be that bad with his cast iron headers, 2 cats, and 2.5 inch piping with 2 of those mufflers. Those tips are double walled as well so that will help a bit.
It will be quieter than a y to a single 3 inch with one muffler.
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I'm not sure about sound level honestly. It should be pretty smooth at idle and cruising. It'll be loud at wot which will be fun. The cats should do a lot to quiet it down.
Exhaust done back to the diff. Getting close!
(http://i.imgur.com/UM0JD9u.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/m26UYMF.jpg)
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Sick!!
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Just read through the entire thread. What a journey! Exhaust is looking awesome! If it's too loud, you can always swap the X pipe for a Magnaflow duel in and out muffler. They cross internally as well.
Keep it up!
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Nearly there!
(http://i.imgur.com/mMPhTkg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TZsQ5zN.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/XjGldns.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/hyVCNWB.jpg?1)
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White fd's look fantastic.
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I think this one's been off the road since '05! Not Mefarri-lab status...but close :bacon: :bacon:
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You have an FD? I thought you just had a Vette!
:P
Looks great!
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Yeah! That turned out fantastic and should sound sooooo mean!!!!
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Your car is turning out really nice but I don't see any stoptech brakes in the pictures
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Thanks guys.
Haha Paul the StopTechs went on the vette. This has stoptech slotted rotors and pads though. My enkeis won't fit a BBK or I'd have to do it :P
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White FDs look so great.
What are you doing with this car once it's done?
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I think this one's been off the road since '05! Not Mefarri-lab status...but close :bacon: :bacon:
:D
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White FDs look so great.
What are you doing with this car once it's done?
Not really sure. I was in kind of a different place in life when I started the project. I was driving a v6 camaro and then a miata... The goal was to build it as a real street car that I could daily if i wanted. I abandoned the mixed use idea early on in favor of making it nicer on the street.
I've spent a good bit of time thinking about what to do with it actually after I get it running now that I have the vette. I think it's going to be a pretty wild ride comparatively. Should have a shit load more torque...55 more cubes! I have R888's mounted on my wheels right now, but they're only 255/40/17's. Traction may be an issue. If it wheel hops like the vette does I'm going to do my first pull after breaking everything in and it'll be on the trailer coming home lmao
Considered going towards the track route...but I think that'd be kind of a shame as I'd barely use it. At this point the rx7 is gonna have AC and the vette doesn't...maybe use it as my summer daily? Haha
I need to get it running and see what it's like to drive. I think I should have a better direction after that.
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Vette Daily, and Rx7 track car
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If those R888s haven't hardened up to turds by now you'll have ok traction. The RX7 will be pretty fun to drive and will be quicker than the Vette. I'd make the Vette the track car personally based on how nice the FD is. Using the FD as a daily you'll want an 8.8 in it pretty quickly though.
Or sell one of them.
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The tires are comically old now. Hopefully being bagged and indoors their whole life they won't be rocks. They've never seen the sun.
I picked up a cobra 8.8 with axles a couple years ago for a nice price. Not thrilled about the mounting options or the cost. Will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
I almost wrote something in that last post that I feet like the vette will be better suited for the track compared to the FD. It was more or less designed for it. Maybe I'm underestimating it's durability?
Both cars are low mileage clean cars. The vette started with 12k and is up to 45k. The mazda has 69k. I don't really need a practical daily like your V. I do need a fast daily because racecar. Maybe I'll just have my dad drive the vette when I take the FD or vice versa. I can't see selling either car at this point.
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No no no, have your cake and eat it too :)
I would track the vette, keep the FD as a Sunday/fair weather driver and occasional track visiter. Go find a Honda as a daily.
Bam!! Problem solved :bacon:
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Yes the vette will be a better track car considering where you are at with both cars. Parts for it are certainly cheaper if you have an incident, or ding something up.
All the vette needs is an oil cooler, and better seats and you'll be able to have loads of fun. There are lots of C5 Z06s out there tracking with 100k+ miles on them. The are great track cars. Leave the engine as you have it, it does not need any more power.
I did LOL when you said the V was a practical daily. I have a Toyota Yaris I putt around and collect mileage for work in. I only drive the V a couple times a week.
If the tires were bagged and indoors, they are probably still decent.
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Exhaust should be fully welded and complete on the car today.
I've been working on wiring in the AC controller from Halfspec. Just about done with that...couple more wires to splice and it should be working.
Maybe clean and install the AC lines and heater hoses next.
Been looking at the power steering line. I have the hard line from the GTO that I've massaged to get it close to the rack. Need to take it over to hoseman and see if they can do anything with it. Will be a little cleaner than AN fittings at the pump, but that is plan B.
Hung the Samberg radiator in there yesterday and started looking for a place for my lithium battery experiment. It's probably going to go in a box under the frame behind the radiator on the driver's side. I can get it above the bottom of the radiator and it'll be well above the subframe.
Need to find a place to wire in and mount my purge solenoid for the evap system. Also need to tee in the vacuum sensor for the tank. I'm thinking behind the driver's fender inside the unibody. I am using one of the unused factory fuel hard lines to get vacuum from the tank.
All in all the car is pretty close.
Yes the vette will be a better track car considering where you are at with both cars. Parts for it are certainly cheaper if you have an incident, or ding something up.
All the vette needs is an oil cooler, and better seats and you'll be able to have loads of fun. There are lots of C5 Z06s out there tracking with 100k+ miles on them. The are great track cars. Leave the engine as you have it, it does not need any more power.
I did LOL when you said the V was a practical daily. I have a Toyota Yaris I putt around and collect mileage for work in. I only drive the V a couple times a week.
If the tires were bagged and indoors, they are probably still decent.
Hah! Yeah. Practical*
Vette definitely needs an oil cooler. It'll hit 250 deg going up GMR in about 5 minutes on a mid 70's day.
I think I need a front swaybar. At slow speeds it's a little tail happy with the non-staggered wheel setup. I'll have to see how it is after an alignment and the bilstein shocks. Any suggestions?
I took it up somewhere nearby last night and put it through a couple turns. I've been focusing too much on straight line, but normal roads here have zero turns in them. It's not really "fast enough" if that's all you're doing. The thing is really an animal when you mix in some bends. The throttle response and the power coming out of turns is just awesome. I had it pinned in 4th at the apex of a bend at speeds that required 4th gear...thinking I really shouldn't be doing this, but goddamn. It's definitely got enough beans if I'm going to take it on track.
It's so much different of a car when I first got it on the 10 year old goodyears...even from the contis to the michelins it is night and day.
*Practical if accepting of 8mpg
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Yea you have more grip in the front now, so you will probably have to do something to calm it down a bit. I wouldn't do anything yet until you get your new shocks and get it aligned. See where you are at then, and go from there. A set of sway bars might be the ticket.
Supposedly there are some good aftermarket, or GMPP T1 sway bars that are supposed to be really good. I think stock c6 z06 bars will fit too.
Again, I'm not a Vette expert but since you aren't ditching the leaf springs, shocks and sway bars are your options for better handling.
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Finished!
(http://i.imgur.com/3cZY13T.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/S9iiANP.jpg)
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Very nice! Well done.
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Mmmmmmmmmmm needs one more. Final install on the hangers and all flanges torqued.
(http://i.imgur.com/ymVmjAe.jpg)
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Where the hell do you put the front relay box with a samberg radiator? I thought it just flipped over and screwed into something on the bottom but I'm obviously not smart enough.
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Where the hell do you put the front relay box with a samberg radiator? I thought it just flipped over and screwed into something on the bottom but I'm obviously not smart enough.
Yeah that's what most people do. Inelegant, but until I decide to pre-make tucked/loomed front harnesses, it's the easiest way to keep 100% functionality.
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Daniel my boy, it's time to expand your wiring prowess with an easy project :yay:
Relocate that bitch! Think through it. What's in that relay box you need? It's got the following:
Fuel Pump relay
Airpump relay
Heatlight Retract relay
TNS relay
Horn relay
AC relay
Radio relay
I know you don't need the AC or air pump relays and I doubt you need the fuel pump or radio relays so that probably leaves you with just 3 needed relays. TNS, RETRACT, and your horn. If that's the case....
Buy one of these and ~ 50 of the associated 14-12AWG terminals plus seals:
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46345/MINI-FUSE-AND-MICRO-RELAY-RTMR/ (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46345/MINI-FUSE-AND-MICRO-RELAY-RTMR/)
Two of these:
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46085/MOUNTING-BRACKET-ATO-ATC-/ (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46085/MOUNTING-BRACKET-ATO-ATC-/)
Three of these:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron/G8W-1C7T-R-DC12/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiZBuFWxFHNzuOxgp4akhLLY%2fwkeExxd5vJLgXLXnDj6g%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron/G8W-1C7T-R-DC12/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiZBuFWxFHNzuOxgp4akhLLY%2fwkeExxd5vJLgXLXnDj6g%3d%3d)
One of the $32 ECT 005 crimpers here (and maybe the two piece $12.95 Terminal Extraction and Removal tool set):
http://www.cycleterminal.com/crimp-tools.html (http://www.cycleterminal.com/crimp-tools.html)
Maybe some TXL, heatshrink, and butts for any extensions (nice to have around even if you don't need it for this):
http://www.wirebarn.com/TXL-Automotive-Wire-by-the-Foot_c_129.html (http://www.wirebarn.com/TXL-Automotive-Wire-by-the-Foot_c_129.html)
http://www.wirebarn.com/Heat-Shrink-Tubing_c_11.html (http://www.wirebarn.com/Heat-Shrink-Tubing_c_11.html)
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/31060/16-14-GA-BUTT-CONNECTORS/ (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/31060/16-14-GA-BUTT-CONNECTORS/)
If getting the butts above, make sure to talk to joe@cycleterminal.com and get the optional die for the $32 crimper that can crimp these butts. Then you just crimp the butts and heatshrink over them.
Then get familiar with the following pages in the FSM and start moving the wires over to the new relays:
Z-60
Z-66
Z-56 (*Note* The TNS relay in the FSM is the only major error I've found in the FSM. It's shown as being normally closed on the R/L wire position but it should actually be NC on the R/Y wire... If you wire it the way the FSM shows your headlights will be at rest in the popped up position)
All the rest of the wiring can be deleted back to the closest joint.
You won't even need any fuses as the relays you'll be moving are fused outside of the stock box.
Mount it like this under the driver's side headlight:
http://s464.photobucket.com/user/rehanvey/media/White%2094%20FD/FanRelay.jpg.html (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/rehanvey/media/White%2094%20FD/FanRelay.jpg.html)
I think that's it. You'll need a good wire stripper, but most folks have something around that works. I will say a good stripper makes all the difference ;)
Don't be a chicken. Do it!
Lane
PS
You need to get your car to a crankable state and make a video as I need to hear this exhaust stat!
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Have a look through our build thread. Managed to relocate the relays inside the rad without extending the harness. Relocated the fan relays to the other side also.
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Damnit guys now I have to do something nice... I thought it just stuffed in there and the bumper covered it up haha.
Lane, I know I have you AC controller, but I thought the OEM switch on the dash went to the factory relay and then back to your box? The "plug and play" connector eliminated the factory relay?
Fuel pump relay is part of my logic circuit for my fuel pump wiring so I'll need that. One relay is triggered by the key and the other is switched by the PCM for a bit of redundancy.
I have the Bose radio - I think I need the radio relay?
That means I have:
Radio
Retra
Fuel Pump
TNS
Horn
Too many for your bussmann box I think.
Those ratcheting crimpers are very nice. I have a set of those in the garage. Have a pile of those splices too. I've done quite a lot of wiring on this car. I have now decided that if I ever do a project like this again I'm building my own harness. Too late now.
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Lane, I know I have you AC controller, but I thought the OEM switch on the dash went to the factory relay and then back to your box? The "plug and play" connector eliminated the factory relay?
No sir. I pickup the switching signal straight off of the logicon / ac switch. The stock rx7 ac relay gets triggered by the stock ECU which is already gone so it wouldn't work even if you wished upon a star. All its doing is adding weight to the front of your car :yay:
Fuel pump relay is part of my logic circuit for my fuel pump wiring so I'll need that. One relay is triggered by the key and the other is switched by the PCM for a bit of redundancy.
Please elaborate on the situation, or point me to a page in your build thread where you discuss it as I am a lazy SOB. It sounds like your FP circuit is overcomplicated but I'll save final judgement until after you explain yourself ;)
I have the Bose radio - I think I need the radio relay?
That means I have:
Radio
Retra
Fuel Pump
TNS
Horn
Too many for your bussmann box I think.
You are correct. If you're going to keep the factory monstrosity, you'll want to keep the audio relay, but in answer to your observation, no, you can load it up with 5 micro relays like this:
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ryeguy2006a/IMG_20121023_214123.jpg)
Just pick up 5 of these:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/G8V-RH-1C7T-R-DC12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt98bArVJter6X3UEIIJpWoS1rm808lrYA%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/G8V-RH-1C7T-R-DC12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt98bArVJter6X3UEIIJpWoS1rm808lrYA%3d)
They're small but they pack a mean punch. Look at the datasheet and you'll see Typical Switching Current = Inrush 90A, Steady State 35A (N.O.) / Inrush 60A, Steady State 20A (N.C.)
All of the circuits listed above take < 15A & 20A except for the audio and FP relays which are 30A, so the majority doesn't even hit a 60% load on what those relays are capable of. They should still handle the 30A circuits just fine, but I still think you can drop the FP relay. If you get it down to 4 relays I think you can fit 1 mini relay and 3 micros in that bussmann box if you wanted even more overhead on the audio relay, I'd have to double check that physically.
Lane
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Wow I'm really surprised by those tiny relays. I figured they wouldn't be good for a 30 amp circuit let alone rated for 35!
I think I'll gather those parts then.
This is going to sound like a really elegant excuse on why I was lazy.
I am feeding the pump relay directly from the battery giving it dedicated power. If the relay failed I didn't not want the pump to be able to stick on when I was upside down on fire. I am using the ignition switch to switch the low speed fuel pump. The low speed pump is fed direct from the battery. When it closes it feeds power to the high speed fuel pump relay that you're telling me to eliminate.
The PCM will switch the high speed pump and send battery voltage to the fuel pump. I found in the rear of the car where they reduced the gauge of the wire going to the fuel pump. I cut that out and spliced in larger gauge wire. (I forget, but it is all either 12 or 10 gauge wire now front to back with nothing else in the circuit).
I know this is blasphemy and I'm supposed to put a dedicated relay in the rear of the car with 2 inches of 00 gauge wire feeding the pump, but I think it's going to work just fine.
Also, it made wiring the fuel pump extremely easy :)
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that out. I don't have any excuses now not to do it the right way.
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Wow I'm really surprised by those tiny relays. I figured they wouldn't be good for a 30 amp circuit let alone rated for 35!
I think I'll gather those parts then.
This is going to sound like a really elegant excuse on why I was lazy.
I am feeding the pump relay directly from the battery giving it dedicated power. If the relay failed I didn't not want the pump to be able to stick on when I was upside down on fire. I am using the ignition switch to switch the low speed fuel pump. The low speed pump is fed direct from the battery. When it closes it feeds power to the high speed fuel pump relay that you're telling me to eliminate.
The PCM will switch the high speed pump and send battery voltage to the fuel pump. I found in the rear of the car where they reduced the gauge of the wire going to the fuel pump. I cut that out and spliced in larger gauge wire. (I forget, but it is all either 12 or 10 gauge wire now front to back with nothing else in the circuit).
I know this is blasphemy and I'm supposed to put a dedicated relay in the rear of the car with 2 inches of 00 gauge wire feeding the pump, but I think it's going to work just fine.
Also, it made wiring the fuel pump extremely easy :)
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that out. I don't have any excuses now not to do it the right way.
1. How many relays are involved in this operation?
2. How many pumps are involved in this operation?
Sorry, I guess I'm just getting lost in your description.
Just for my reference stock fuel pump relay works as following:
a. Without 12v across the coil, there is no direct path through the relay so the fuel pump is powered through the stock resistor, therefore low speed.
b. With 12v across the coil there is a path for power directly through the relay so the fuel pump is powered with ~battery voltage and the stock resistor is bypassed therefore high speed.
c. The stock relay coil is tied to 12v switched via the ignition cylinder -> Engine fuse and is triggered with a ground signal via the stock ECU
What it sounds like is that you've tied the stock FP relay's ECU grounded wire straight to ground and it activates via the ignition cylinder sending ~battery voltage through the stock wiring back towards the fuel pump. From there I get lost as I don't know what your FP setup is or how many relays you are using.
Lane
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Those ISO280 relays may be rated for 35A, but they'll cook at 30A N/O. I've used tons of these things and the Bussman blocks are a godsend for little custom projects and hidden fuseboxes (just wish they had better wire routing out the back), but you can not put a real, constant 30A load on 'em (like dual fans, etc) or you'll start to see the housing discolor on around the 87/30 armature pins and the bottom will melt.
A 30A ignition circuit, or lights, or something where you're rarely hitting the max is fine.
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I use those a lot, but I agree with Jeff, you're leaning hard on them at that point.
FWIW they make a larger relay that fits in the socket (you can put 3x instead of 5x in the box) and it WILL handle 30 amps constant. I used 2x of them (I like redundancy) in parallel for my fuel pump on my FC. Worked great. The little guys got HOT to the touch. The big ones just got "fresh cookie" warm, which is a-ok.
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MMMmmmm cookies :)
Thanks for the feedback on the tiny relays.
Lane I've got two fuel pump relays and one bosch 044 pump. The mazda fuel pump resistor crap is gone from the car. I am reusing their relays, but using my own wiring logic.
I just looked up the Bosch pump and at 4 bar it pulls 12 amps. It appears the only circuit I'd need to worry about is the radio? How much current does the bose draw? Is it going to dim the headlights? Lol.
Relay 1 in fuse box on the shock tower:
Coil heat - Ign switch
Coil ground - gnd
Power - Positive battery lug
Switched - To relay 2
Relay 2 in relay box on core support:
Coil heat - PCM
Coil ground - GND
Power - From Relay 1
Switched - To pump
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Although I haven't personally had problems using quality micro relays within their datasheet specs, I'll default to Blake/Jeff's experience in the interest of keeping the relays in their operating range's happy spot, which is usually a good target to aim for in a hash environment like an auto engine bay. I'll admit that a closer look at the datasheet only shows applications in the 240watt-300watt range or 20-25Amps so it's probably best to use them <=25A.
Ok, so back to your setup. I can understand what you're doing now and while I think the extra mechanical complexity (more parts possible to break) and voltage drop across the relay contacts and stock wiring is not ideal, you could do a lot worse. I follow your line of logic and think you're ok.
You are correct. The bosh 044 should never pull more than 20A in normal situations and if you do spike during startup / starvation / cavitation / whatever it'll be quick and the micro relay should easily handle it.
As for the other circuits:
TNS = 15A max as it's fused by a 15A Tail fuse
Horn = 15A max as its fused by the 15A Meter fuse
RETRACT = < 1A as it's only activating the headlight actuator coils.
FP = < 20A or it should be as described above
AUDIO = This is the only one I can't grantee. Music is dynamic so I seriously doubt you'll see a continuous 30A load, but I don't know exactly how the stock headunit / amplifier draws current vs what the actual music is doing so... I think you'll be fine but that's just based on my experience.
Lane
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Before I order any reason not to use these relays that Waytek suggests vs the Omron ones you linked at Mouser?
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75660/ISO-280-MICRO-RELAY-12V-SPST/ (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75660/ISO-280-MICRO-RELAY-12V-SPST/)
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Before I order any reason not to use these relays that Waytek suggests vs the Omron ones you linked at Mouser?
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75660/ISO-280-MICRO-RELAY-12V-SPST/ (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75660/ISO-280-MICRO-RELAY-12V-SPST/)
The only reason I prefer omron is that they are true OEM provider and I've seen their relays with my own eyes in every chevy / gm car I've ever dug into. Go pop the lid on one of your Vette's relays boxes and you'll most likely see what I'm talking about.
That's pretty much my only reason for suggesting them. I figure if they are good enough that GM/Chevy uses them they're good enough for me.
The PICKER brand on waytek wire claims to be an OEM but I don't have any direct experience with them. Most likely they'll be fine.
Lane
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Cool! Figured as much.
What is that mesh that harness mesh stuff you use?
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I just use the basic expanding sleeving on waytek. You can get fancier stuff that's more rugged and has pretty tracers on it if you look though :cheers:
Lane
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Does the LS2 have a secondary air pump? If so, what did you do with it? Also, what are you doing about fuel lines, regulator, charcoal canister, etc. to get it CA legal?
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No air pump on the ls2. This post should answer the rest of your questions.
If you're starting a CA Ref'ed build now I highly suggest using the E-rod.
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=312.msg30668#msg30668 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=312.msg30668#msg30668)
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I just looked up the Bosch pump and at 4 bar it pulls 12 amps.
Negative, maybe free-flow it'll drop to 12 amps, but full-bore those will pop a 20A fuse. Something like 15A nominal, use a 25A or 30A fuse/breaker.
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I just looked up the Bosch pump and at 4 bar it pulls 12 amps.
Negative, maybe free-flow it'll drop to 12 amps, but full-bore those will pop a 20A fuse. Something like 15A nominal, use a 25A or 30A fuse/breaker.
I don't think anyone in this thread said to fuse the circuit with a 20A fuse. In fact I told Daniel not to worry about fuses as every circuit in the front relay box is fused externally and the stock fuse is 30A.
Lane
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IT CRANKED!
Just bumped the starter for the first time successfully. First start is just around the corner. Unfortunately I have dinner plans all tonight...
Started with only 4 volts at the starter solenoid and nothing. Jumped the clutch switch and got to 5.2 volts and got a click.
This car had a turbo timer and a "star guard" in it when I got it. Was NOT fun but I just got all that garbage out and now the bitch cranks.
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Congrats! It feels so good when you know all that hard work is about to pay off.
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Sweet!
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Very much approve.
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Can't wait to hear it run.... your impressions and it pass CA smog!
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Will this clear the hood?
(http://i.imgur.com/iiblvSU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cFg9DUv.jpg)
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No ;)
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That depends, does your hood have a giant ass hole right where that tube is? If so, yes, it will clear fine!
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WTF are you trying to do there buddy?
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If you're not using your samberg maf tube with the ls7 style maf I'll take it off your hands.
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I don't have the aluminum tube from samberg. Working on doing my own.
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Stop the insanity. You will be hard pressed to get there with a straight coupler off of the filter. You can try the Airaid U build it kits/components... something like this cut down.
http://autoplicity.com/7573656-airaid-100-306-u-build-it-kit?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=7573656NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT&gclid=CLSI-smB4sICFc1AMgod2zYAtQ (http://autoplicity.com/7573656-airaid-100-306-u-build-it-kit?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=7573656NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT&gclid=CLSI-smB4sICFc1AMgod2zYAtQ)
If you are doing it out of aluminium You are going to need a 4 inch 90 degree rubber elbow and cut it down. Samberg machines the 90 degree rubber elbow down to decrease the angle to use a straight shot tube right to the throttle body. That is the probably the easiest way to clear the hood. He won't sell you the machined rubber elbow, I asked when I was building my intake. I borrowed someone's Samberg elbow and cut mine to match it for my intake.
That said if you want to borrow my elbow for reference, let me know.
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I'm not sure that would help. I have the home depot plumbing couplers samberg supplies with the intake... I am converting to an ls7 maf
That might wind up working better though. Going to keep tweaking on this a little. Have some ways to gain some clearance. If it looks like shit I'll scrap it.
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I did a ninja edit there.
It has got to look something like this:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/0107F3D4-72B1-45D7-9FD3-9445B59925AB-6555-000005FA9AEF918C_zps49e58409.jpg)
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Cool I see what you're saying. The tube is pointing up a little right now off the throttle body. It'll come down some and I'm going to try and roll it flat on the top.
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Cool I see what you're saying. The tube is pointing up a little right now off the throttle body. It'll come down some and I'm going to try and roll it flat on the top.
Word. Anything pointing up is bad. You might be able to get there by taking wedge cuts out of the filter side of your pipe to bring it down. I suspect the pipe may have too much angle in it, but again I am not an FD expert.
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Judging by your attention to detail and fab skill why couldn't you just cut a flat spot into the bend section and weld on a flat piece of metal. I'm sure it wouldn't obstruct flow enough to be considered an obstruction with an NA motor. A
4" can move a lot of air
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So LOF I think by looking at your picture you have a lot more distance between the filter and the TB in your car than what the Samberg setup is like. I think that's why you can have such a straight shot between the two.
LSrex that's kind of the direction I was thinking of going, but more by flattening it instead of cutting and welding. Also, thanks :)
I've just never seen the hood anywhere near installed on the car so I had to ask haha. Needs a lot of love before it's going to fit...
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It's going to look like this when your done... I tried to get the Samberg elbow to work, no luck... Hard to tell in the second pic but the elbow was about 3/4" to high
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So the Samberg elbow didn't work with the samberg radiator setup?
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^ nope. Not even close. Maybe it was the fast 102 with NW tb, not sure so I used some straight 4" aluminum thin wall pipe and a rubber 90 degree coupler.
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The 102 intake and TB sticks out further than an LS3 intake with stock TB doesn't it?
I noticed that my FAST 90 and 90mm Holley TB sit further forward close to 3/4 inch compared to an LS6 intake and stock TB.
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Edit - nevermind.
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Currently my pcm is in about a 5 second reboot loop. I can connect to it on the scanner and then I hear the RLO solenoid click and it loses its connection in hptuners.
Thoughts?
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Ran a dedicated wire to the pcm for keyed voltage. Had too much shit on that circuit.
Isolate your pcm boys and girls!
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AAAAAAAAAAAAnd it runs :D
Fired up first crank :cheers:
It sounds pretty great and is DEAD smooth. The engine runs perfect. Valvetrain is extremely quiet and the calibration is actually really close as well. Only thing changed so far was a VATS disable and changing the injector sizing. STFT were +/- 3% and the O2's were switching nicely in closed loop. Pretty wacky.
First cold start -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuL8pUyDNEE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuL8pUyDNEE&feature=youtu.be)
Revs 2000 to 3000 rpm -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqa0b_k6i74&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqa0b_k6i74&feature=youtu.be)
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Awesome, congrats. That exhaust sounds nice!!
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Sounds great dude. Congrats!!!! Would love to see the beauty in person :cheers:
AAAAAAAAAAAAnd it runs :D
Fired up first crank :cheers:
It sounds pretty great and is DEAD smooth. The engine runs perfect. Valvetrain is extremely quiet and the calibration is actually really close as well. Only thing changed so far was a VATS disable and changing the injector sizing. STFT were +/- 3% and the O2's were switching nicely in closed loop. Pretty wacky.
First cold start -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuL8pUyDNEE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuL8pUyDNEE&feature=youtu.be)
Revs 2000 to 3000 rpm -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqa0b_k6i74&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqa0b_k6i74&feature=youtu.be)
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You vette is gonna feel like a civic ;)
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AAAAAAAAAAAAnd it runs :D
Fired up first crank :cheers:
Whoah! Congrats! Just seeing this as I've been under a rock all week. That thing is smooth as butter. I would have been over the moon if my first crank was that smooth. Hell, I'd be over the moon if mine ran that smooth now lol!
Excellent work
Lane
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(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/710151/thumbs/s-ERMAHGERD-MEME-large.jpg)
Thanks guys :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ip67bL74Hro/VKiQeAONKpI/AAAAAAAAH88/nWBmqZ9QV0Q/w1113-h626-no/IMG_20150103_165347868_HDR.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CSDa5faSpOqi0-gTML2kys4XmM-La7cT5lCTbKtffC4=w1113-h517-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4zUQDnBltAA/VKkHAtOJ3_I/AAAAAAAAIAQ/2YpFZ2lmDDw/w1113-h627-no/IMG_20150103_165243736_HDR.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CG4jGB9uU6Y/VKiaNEnSDCI/AAAAAAAAH_k/Ltm2kNf9dFA/w1113-h626-no/IMG_20150103_174043067.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6ckEG163tg0/VKiViKjE8mI/AAAAAAAAH98/9VjGBFmhcf0/w1113-h626-no/IMG_20150103_171913264_HDR.jpg)
Ground Clearance
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k7RV-g0w6sw/VKkHHIiTRUI/AAAAAAAAIAo/XurU_G9nI7s/w1113-h627-no/IMG_20150103_175356827.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BuobLNBB_AA/VKiQDxHPYwI/AAAAAAAAH8A/6otf-YsvX2A/w1113-h626-no/IMG_20150103_165639275_HDR.jpg)
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Looks even better than I could have imagined... so nice!
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Thanks Matt! Just put on your shifter plate yesterday. Funny I was the first to get one and the last to use it :p
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This is like the FD version of bowtie7's fc. The car and swap looks absolutely factory. Beautiful work!
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Wow huge compliment! Thank you :D
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O M G.
i love this thing! i suddenly feel much more motivated to get my car running asap!
its beautiful man. glad to see it running !
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Thanks Matt! Just put on your shifter plate yesterday. Funny I was the first to get one and the last to use it :p
Haha, nice... totally forgot about that test-fitting stage. Now you just need a hood damper/strut kit *hint hint*
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Thanks Matt! Just put on your shifter plate yesterday. Funny I was the first to get one and the last to use it :p
Haha, nice... totally forgot about that test-fitting stage. Now you just need a hood damper/strut kit *hint hint*
Haha my car came with some tein gas shocks for the hood. No idea if they work well or not.
I'm headed to the airport for a business trip for 6 days. Shit timing. When I get home I'll get this thing on the road!
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speechless 8)
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Hehehehe :D
Registered and insured. 30 day moving permit. It's uhhh...it's pretty fun :yay:
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Soooo which Corvette are you selling?
Are you just going to get it smogged by a blind tech?
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Soooo which Corvette are you selling?
Are you just going to get it smogged by a blind tech?
Will take it to a ref to try and get the sticker. Smog I'm not concerned about. The car was built right in regards to emissions. All readiness checks should work fine.
Clutch is chattering. That better stop or I'm going to firebomb Monster. Last thing I want to do is a clutch swap...
Need to plug in a wideband and get working on the tune, but it seems to be running very well! Trying to stay out of power enrichment for the moment. The clutch is supposed to take 500 miles to break in...I guess I should go easier on it or it may chatter forever :/
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Yea let the clutch break in and see what happens. What Monster clutch is it?
I forgot you were doing the BAR deal.
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Monster stage 2. It's a little heavy compared to the vette, but not bad. The extra effort is mostly in the master cylinder I'd say. The chatter should go away. Pretty common and I've not heard of one chattering after a good break in.
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I hooked up a wideband tonight. It must be super coincidental but the fueling is actually pretty spot on. STFT's are less than 3% and power enrichment follows just where it's supposed to.
Going to dive into some VE tuning as I think it's pretty far out in places, but the MAF curve seems really good.
Only gone into PE at 55% throttle so far. Plants you pretty good when it pours some fuel to it. Definitely has some beans... Can't wait to put my foot in it.
Anyone have experience with the GTO gas pedal? The throttle curve feels like shit compared to the vette :(
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What ECM are you running? Sorry I can't remember. I have an '06 GTO pedal and E40 ECM and don't have a complaint of pedal progression.
Running basically an LS3 (LQ4 block, .030 over, LS3 heads/Intake mani and injectors/Vette intake, cam).....
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It's an e40 ecm. I'm going to do some VE tuning tonight if I have time. I think it's pretty out of whack in places due to it being a 4" stroke. (ls2 block, 4 inch stroke, ls3 top end, samberg intake, mild cam). Lots of changes from stock.
That should help tip in be a bit crisper I hope.
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So the complaint is tip-in response not pedal to torque conversion? I have mine running MAF only until I can find the time to tune the VE. At least we still have a table of VE instead of the coeffiecients in the later ECU's....
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Yeah the top of the pedal travel does very little. It's really just takeoff and rev matching that feels crappy.
Once moving it feels fine.
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By crappy do you mean that it takes a lot of pedal travel to get going from a stop, and the final 25% all feels about the same? I have always wondered if you could adjust the exponential of the throttle curve.. Everything I have read in HP tuner forums (not a ton) said "Dont' mess with it!"
If you could adjust it it could get you more fine control, especially in cars without TC.
As an aside, if you want to feel crappy DBW response go drive a new GM truck or Tahoe/Suburban. Holy crap it is horrible, and really laggy. I am sure they did it for improved fuel economy for those that jab at the gas pedal, but it sucks.
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It takes a lot of travel and it's not very responsive to blipping the gas, but if you hold the pedal there it does respond. Just laggy like you said. Hoping that's just a dead spot in the tune I can fix.
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I'll take better pictures eventually. Impromptu photo op.
(http://i.imgur.com/DUqQdho.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/oyOsi9U.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/rdnzH22.jpg?1)
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I'll take better pictures eventually. Impromptu photo op.
Nice! Now hood that bitch so it doesn't look like 90% of the 2JZ swaps out there :yay:
Lane
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I'll take better pictures eventually. Impromptu photo op.
Nice! Now hood that bitch so it doesn't look like 90% of the 2JZ swaps out there :yay:
Lane
Oh I want to... Gonna smog it first and then do a new intake tube which fits.
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I am willing to bet your laggy throttle is a unrefined area in your tune that your O2 sensors in CL are having to re-trim constantly (decels probably reading lean and accel is rich in that specific RPM range or vise-versa).
Once you get in there with HPtuners you will get her dialed in :)
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Well I've been driving the car a lot...and it's been pretty much perfect.
So I took it to the drag strip :D
Made two runs tonight. Didn't really care to do too many I just wanted to see what kind of mph I could run. First run was just how I pulled in. Tires at 36 psi. Engine still at 190 degrees.
2.027
5.475
8.121
94.70 mph
Second run I waited for the car to cool way down. Got in line and then someone crashed and made a huge mess...track was down for an hour+.
Aired the tires to 20 psi and did a nice small burnout. The R888's are absolutely amazing. On the street they hook like nobodies business. On the track they worked awesome as well.
So the run went a bit like this.
1.857
5.302 - pedaled second
8.034
85.37 mph...sideways
I think I hit something on the track. It turned pretty hard. I think I could have run a 7.80@97mph with how well the run was going.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkkHEkgUt4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkkHEkgUt4&feature=youtu.be)
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Taking suggestions on Speedhut gauges btw. Hate the gauges in this car. Love how they look though which kind of sucks.
Thoughts on the yellow? I kind of dig it but not sure it's something I'd always be happy with.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10455431_268065490054630_3163379900558334301_n.jpg?oh=12dedbd28734937d7fc34ea79091fcf7&oe=552CA101&__gda__=1429456057_dec09fc3ed89d978700e3b2f7370f9c2)
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Do a white center tach with surrounding gauges being black/white letter. :confused:
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Finally can put on my own decal :)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hhWQqgegc9E/VLlzBdBFD6I/AAAAAAAAIdg/u1uU-6y49tM/w997-h561-no/IMG_20150116_122149503.jpg)
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Anyone experienced with HPtuners and E40 PCM when it comes to cooling fans? I can force the fans off and on using the scanner, but I can't seem to make them work properly on their own. The E40 pcm has a lot of goofy stuff in it...
Since the table sucks and only goes down to 190 degrees I want both fans to come on full blast. I do have them wired up to the low speed and high speed wires to the PCM.
(http://i.imgur.com/oFlTW61.png)
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So they are not coming on at 196 at all? My CTS-v has the same setup and it works, but to get a fan speed % you'd need some kind of speed control not just a relay. Something like that must be built into the car.
Crank the speed to 100% and see what happens.
I'd wire both fans to the low speed relay trigger and be done, but it looks like you can make both work in the software.
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Back to the gauge cluster color delema, I think the white tach would look good. Look at the attached pic. [smg id=7256 type=full align=center caption="13568182635 100d0c1ae2 c"]
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Opened my mouth 15 minutes too soon. Fans work fine. My on values needed to be 91 instead of 85. For some reason my low speed setting doesn't seem to work. Maybe I only wired it up as high speed only. I do have Lane's fan controller with 3 relays like the stock system.
Oh well. Fans are working huzzah.
Now when I'm not lazy I guess I'll flash in the custom OS because I want them to come on 20 degrees sooner...
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Glad the R888s are still good. The DOT r comps hook up awesome on the street.
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Back to the gauge cluster color delema, I think the white tach would look good. Look at the attached pic. [smg id=7256 type=full align=center caption="13568182635 100d0c1ae2 c"]
Spirit R style. Interesting idea.
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You can't do that. Your car has no spirit or soul.
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Haha the car just kind of screams and you have to shift a lot. Pretty hilarious actually. If the car does have a soul it's a tortured one.
So the fans work.
Fixed my radio. Jerk-off cut the wires.
Going to charge the AC tonight.
Finishing touches on the interior. Not thrilled about using these but they do look pretty good. My stock ones between the two of them had one good clip left. I needed something solid to hold my carpet.
The car is coming together quick. Almost done...!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q71Ck5W2dmA/VLnKDvCRBEI/AAAAAAAAIeA/_emK9VuphgM/w1598-h899-no/IMG_20150116_183317818.jpg)
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Haha the car just kind of screams and you have to shift a lot. Pretty hilarious actually. If the car does have a soul it's a tortured one.
So the fans work.
Fixed my radio. Jerk-off cut the wires.
Going to charge the AC tonight.
Finishing touches on the interior. Not thrilled about using these but they do look pretty good. My stock ones between the two of them had one good clip left. I needed something solid to hold my carpet.
The car is coming together quick. Almost done...!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q71Ck5W2dmA/VLnKDvCRBEI/AAAAAAAAIeA/_emK9VuphgM/w1598-h899-no/IMG_20150116_183317818.jpg)
Yea you need an 8.8. Looking great.
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I hope to keep the mazda diff in it for a while. It is a bit noisier than when I first put it together though...hopefully it's doing okay in there. I actually don't mind the 4.10 gears. I've got plenty of traction with the 888's. People's reaction to first gear is pretty priceless. 2500 rpm is 80, 2000 is 70. Not bad. It actually keeps my speed down a little. The vette cruises a little too nicely at 90mph...
Charged the AC today. With a radio and AC it feels like much more of a complete car.
Redid the intake and got the hood on tonight. After the ref we'll make a new tube and change to an LS7 maf.
Getting closer to D-day with the ref. Hope that he'll turn a blind eye to the intake. If not I guess I'll go back with no hood and the airbox thrown on there...
The car is driving really, really well. It's extremely smooth and my tuning helped out the throttle response a ton. I wish it had a better calibration in the pedal still, but I'm getting used to it I guess. Maybe I'll have my throttle body ported. The LS2 throttle body is extremely shrouded.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fKn2vutRfaY/VLtQlBrl-cI/AAAAAAAAIf8/fGOLOp1zHCA/w997-h561-no/IMG_20150117_221926016.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OSkQhVKYGwc/VLtRE_Qw1oI/AAAAAAAAIgI/w-0v_foQcEM/w997-h561-no/IMG_20150117_222127971.jpg)
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How much clearance do you have between the fuel rail crossover pipe and the strut brace, on the LS3 it just touched? It also gets closer if you jack under the x member. How well does it drive at 50-60 mph on a minimal throttle opening, we found the turbulence created by the curved intake pipe really confused the MAF and resulted in severe bucking. We almost eliminated the problem with a honeycomb in the inlet next to the MAF.
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The crossover hit pretty bad, but I just clearances it.
The ls2 maf has a honeycomb. No bucking issues or anything. Fuel trims are really close and I've never tuned the maf curve.
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Nice, I wish my first start up went that smooth.
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5 seconds into my friend's BAR appointment the REF pointed out the intake and showed a printout/picture of the stock camaro intake. Fortunately, it was a k&n and EO sticker was on the hood. I hope you go to someone more reasonable. Shortening a k&n gto intake might be an option... kind of pricey, though.
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Thanks for the info orion. Not many people document the bar process.
I guess I'll start looking at the GTO stuff.
I despoilered it today. Very happy with look, less than happy with the workmanship of the installer. Oh well.
(http://i.imgur.com/gqKbR0g.jpg)
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Looks good!, Any plans to lower it? :)
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Looks good!, Any plans to lower it? :)
Lol my front wheels already hit the fender liners over bumps.
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There is a Z06 Air filter made by KNN that's CARB legal. It looks like it uses the exact same air filter samberg uses, it's bit pricey though.
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2554/PageID/4723/Project-V8-RX-7-Part-12--The-Intake-Finishing-Touches.aspx (http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2554/PageID/4723/Project-V8-RX-7-Part-12--The-Intake-Finishing-Touches.aspx)
http://www.autoanything.com/air-intakes/77A1914A2593843.aspx (http://www.autoanything.com/air-intakes/77A1914A2593843.aspx)
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I got a really good alignment done today. Found a great shop in San Bernardino. In ground laser alignment rack...a shop that specializes in alignments and undercar work. Extremely rare these days. They're called Pruett's Precision Alignment if anyone is in the area.
Anyways, had no problem with me giving him specs and they nailed them pretty spot on.
Asked for Front -1.5*, 1/16 toe in total, 5.5-6.5* caster. Rear -1* zero toe.
The alignment wasn't terrible out of the garage. Caster was off side to side causing it to pull a little to the right. The biggest issue is that it was toed in majorly in the rear. With a good alignment the car kind of makes sense now...it's extremely nimble and precise.
The rx7 is considerably faster than the vette. Would be real interesting to see them go side by side. I've seen over 1 g/cyl on the cyl air in HPTuners. That's a whole lot more than I've ever seen in the vette. This thing is making loads of torque. Totally different power delivery than the vette. It's rather...explosive...and loud. Lots of fun :)
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If it starts to feel like it wants to wander or skate around under power add some toe in to the rear. It will give you some added stability on corner exit and in a straight line. You need it with that kind of power.
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The car tracks dead straight under power.
I need to spend some time driving it and see how I like it. It certainly doesn't hesitate to change direction, but it doesn't feel unstable. I took it through some turns quickly last night and it felt great. That was the first time I've really pushed it a bit. Wasn't nervous or anything and I could really crank the wheel into it at speed and it just kept turning more. I think R comps help with that too.
Lower speeds trying to plant the power I think you're right and I might want to dial in a little toe in. How much would you suggest? 1/16th toe in each side?
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I run 1/16" total toe in (1/32" per side), but up to 1/8" total as you mentioned will work and is probably better for you considering your bushings are still pliable.
I am still noodling on going to 1/8" total toe in myself.
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The rear toe was the biggest PITA to set. It took 80% of the alignment time to get right lol. If I take it back to them for a rear toe adjustment they may run away haha.
I guess the toe majorly affects the rear camber and vice versa.
I'll rock it like this for a while. If it gets a little hairy driving hard I'll know what to do next.
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Your harnesses look great good job man
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Any update on getting the car Ref'd?
I'm in the process of getting mine fixed up for the ref as well... mighty interested what they say about the radiator and intake setup. The first time I took mine through the guy was a huge stickler... he even brought a 2001 camaro (I have an ls1 from an '01) to directly compare things against during the inspection.
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Life uhh...finds a way :poke:
Not sure when I will be attempting the ref process. I won't be going with the Samberg radiator unless I can find a friend which so far every hookup I had has either died or retired.
I'm a little paranoid about what would happen if I tried to ref the car, they didn't like it, and I told them to go pound sand. Is the VIN now in their system?
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You can take a car to the Ref as-is and they'll give you a punch list of things to change if needed. I'd certainly have all your documentation on the air intake filter being CA legal to see if you can talk them into letting it go as it stands. Worst case you then have to do whatever they asked for (easy or hard), but that beats redoing things just because you MIGHT have an issue. Go for it!
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My biggest hang up is if I go it's going to be without a hood and the GTO airbox strapped down with zipties laying on the fender.
It's obviously not a permanent solution and questionable if even road legal.
I'm probably thinking too much but I'm concerned on the potential situation of going to a ref and not following through with it but continuing to get smogs through the life of the vehicle.
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Call them and explain your situation, it's time to ask for advise from the folks who know.
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My biggest hang up is if I go it's going to be without a hood and the GTO airbox strapped down with zipties laying on the fender.
It's obviously not a permanent solution and questionable if even road legal.
I'm probably thinking too much but I'm concerned on the potential situation of going to a ref and not following through with it but continuing to get smogs through the life of the vehicle.
I have no direct experience, but I have heard and read of guys that went to the ref exactly like that. It's just an emissions inspection, not a road worthiness inspection.
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Yeah I need to do it eventually.
I wasn't going to be ready during the 30 day temp reg to get it done. Nice to have plates and have it off my back a little bit.
Good news is that all readiness checks show as completed.
Bummer is that when the EVAP test finally goes green it throws a CEL for a "small evap leak." I guess I need to find a smoke machine to use. It's not the gas cap.
Other than that the car is running flawless. I've driven probably 1500 miles so far. It gets a TON of attention. It's kind of weird actually lol.
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Tuned my car on a mustang dyno today. Pickuped up 15hp and 20 ftlb at the tire from my base calibration. Low end torque is much improved also.
They guesstimated around 450whp on a dynojet. Pretty stoked. The car is noticeable faster and sounds even meaner with more timing in it.
(http://i.imgur.com/5jv1PMt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r2boGDf.jpg)
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Ehehehe just picked this up :)
Having a professional detail done tomorrow. After it's all clean I'll mount it up.
(http://i.imgur.com/iPLF6ZR.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/hOvWwte.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZAki3jF.png)
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Loving the look of that spoiler on a White FD
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Well the car has been doing good. Have a lot of miles on it so far. Somewhere north of 3000. Still don't have a speedo or odometer so I don't know for sure. That'll be sorted out probably in a few months though :) Exciting stuff coming there.
For anyone that didn't see my other thread, I did an episode of /TUNED with Matt Farah. It'll be on /Drive network in a couple months.
(http://i.imgur.com/I32cdLk.jpg)
Made a new intake tube yesterday! Turned out pretty nice. Used a cheapo Chinese Spectre tube that is absolute garbage. Works though and the price was right.
Got the VE table tuned pretty well last night. Just about to start working on the MAF cal. It's being a little bit of a pain, but I do think it's going to help performance quite a bit.
(http://i.imgur.com/r7c54Yn.jpg)
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Interested to know how stable your MAF readings are at low RPM with that setup and how easy was it to package under the hood?
I'm bored of the very slight hesitation I get with the Samberg intake at low RPM even with a flow straightener. Looking to order the parts up for a similar setup to yours.
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The hood hits the front elbow. It did with my other setup too. It closes, but it's rubbing.
The MAF is a PITA to tune. It's not really making much sense. At idle at times it's dead on stoich, then sometimes it's freaking 11:1 then other times it goes off the charts lean. There's overlap in the maf curve where sometimes it's fueling properly and other times it's way off. I don't even know how that's possible.
I've put everything back to closed loop and it's driving pretty well. I have kind of a strange steady state lean miss at lower freeway speeds in 6th. It's hot and I'm tired of dicking around with it. The car is driveable right now so I guess I'll just rock it for a while.
Transient is good. No hesitations or bogs. WOT fueling is good. Still seeing 3+ KPA of restriction. 2/10 would not do again. Maybe I just need to keep working on the VE table and run speed density.
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Man sorry to hear about the MAF tuning problems buddy.
My MAF tuning was so/so and I too experience the overlap of hertz cells BUT that is at WOT due to my 90° intake set up. I suffer from a little cam reversion as well (very minor) in certain cells, around 3500-3750hz.
I am telling you these damn fast 36lber's have an issue with rich decel. Mine is after PE as well as from 2300 to 1950 rpm deep vacuum(15kpa). I am hell bent on finding it this spring(gonna adjust Fuel Trim Cell limits and eliminate fuel trimming in certain KPA areas). It makes it awfully tough to get a smooth & constant stft spread in CL with fueling issues.
Heck man, spend some HP credit and update your OS to a SD tune. Then tell me about it because I may try it :)
That LS7 Maf is a pain from what I have read. If I am not mistaken doesn't the OEM ls7 vette have a longer intake tube the MAF sits in? Maybe that MAF needs more then the recommended 6" of straight intake piping before the sensor?
I have also noticed when MAF tuning that when I dialed mine in cruising on the highway in 5th gear and got my 2700-7000hz cells dialed in to 14.7 , once in town doing city driving from speeds of 30 to 45mph the AFR was leaner..about .3 off. Different gears with your final drive do make a difference ( I am not smart enough to explain why, just my observation from many many hours of tuning my car)
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It's funny the car seems to have a mind of its own lol. Sometimes it's smooth and sometimes it's nearly constantly missing. What I've now learned is if I run the AC it's enough to load the car at part throttle it's eliminated the misfire by about 98%. The afr is still not smooth at steady state, but it's not killing engine power.
I'm so thankful that ls7 injectors are so big. Made it super easy...just loaded in production values and forget about it.
I actually have a closed loop SD calibration ready to flash in. I've been too lazy to do it since this past weekend. Part of me is afraid of how much work it's going to be. I'm excited to try it though as I really do think it's the right thing for the car. Excited to play with the PE enable point and basically run open loop most of the time and rely on the o2 sensors to trim light load and idle.
The main thing holding me back is I'm so close to wanting to order engine parts which would dramatically change my calibration...
Also if I work on it right now it should be on getting it bar'ed and not going for 130mph traps.
I think the car will pick up insane part throttle torque by starting to richen it up to 13.5ish before the normal PE point. I've also always loved how these engines run in open loop. It's just so much smoother and better throttle response even over a production maf cal.
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Please go SD and begin living.
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I've had great luck with SD...
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Next time I flash it the computer will be running the 2bar SD custom OS. Happy also that I can finally turn my cooling fans on at 180 instead of minimum 196. Just haven't really felt like doing it.
I have a daily now...picked it up yesterday. Not so worried about not being able to drive the car tomorrow if I screw it up today.
Lease deals are pretty damn good on these things right now. 24 month $3100 down $189/mo is hard to beat.
And yes that means I will be getting rid of the vette soon. Bitter sweet. I have a couple friends who have called dibs on it. Going to call their bluff soon. Hopefully will "keep it in the family" so to speak.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/jEL33JhKhhBTJ-gU2ni6hqcNAiXJHZEzi1jM1kOlh3c=w1492-h1008-no)
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FiST?
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FiSTed so hard.
It's a pretty ridiculous little car. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to resist tuning it even though it's a lease.
Only complaint so far is the stereo. It's fine, but really it's lamer than the 20 year old bose system in the FD lmao (which I kind of actually like...sue me). I'm far from a car audio nerd but I want some bass.
I pieced together a little woofer setup for it today. I can fit a 10" in a small enclosure and amp under the rear cargo hatch. Won't even be able to see that there's a sub in the car. Cheapo stuff but should be fun. Never done any audio work in my cars before.
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Been rocking the fiesta a lot recently. Without an odometer you don't really realize how many miles you're putting on your junk. In 2.5 weeks I've put 1100 miles on the Fiesta. Same driving duty as I was doing in the FD since it fired up. Makes the car seem way faster too when you're not driving it every day lol.
Had a fun time at the track today. Went out to test my bracket car but brought the FD along to make a few runs and see what it could do in the quarter. Already posted on facebook but figure I'll whore myself over here too.
Really happy with how the car did. I made 3 runs. First pass I ran out of rpm at 118mph in 4th and coasted through to 11.97@111mph. I bumped the limiter to 7000 instead of trying to shift into 5th. Second run I went 11.68@121.90.
I jumped in it to make one last run of the day and hit an 11.55@123mph. Pretty damn respectable. Would be considerably faster at a different track. Fontana is really slow. For such a docile engine it really shouldn't be this fast.
Stomped on a ZL1 camaro and a modded up brand new 5.0 mustang with a stalled converter and slicks and skinnies. Pretty fun. I wonder what they were thinking when that weird looking miata was marching away from them :yay:
(http://i.imgur.com/8mNw4nw.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/b7FQn2A.png)
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Nice times !
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Very good times. Just goes to show how midrange power makes the difference, it's not all about top end power.
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Cam swap coming soon :secret: :secret:
I had settled myself on 222/242 on 117+5 with eps lobes.
I talked with my guy at comp and he suggested 226/242 on 117+5. Right at 600 lift intake and exhaust. 0 degrees of overlap at 50. Not very conservative but I did want to make a big change. I should have a huge increase in powerband and pretty significant power gains.
Will be doing the cam, dual springs, trunnion upgrade, ATI damper 10% ud, and maybe something with my timing chain.
Ironic thing is this started because I have a cam sensor issue which prevents the car from firing sometimes. I blame my aftermarket cam gear. While I was in there I was going to swap the cam. Now I might not be changing the gear, but I'll still be swapping the cam.
Talked with Cloyes and the sales guy can't guarantee me that their double roller will fit. They don't sell a single roller for line honed engines. Really sucks actually, but I might just leave it alone. I don't want to swap timing sets for no reason.
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Talked with Cloyes and the sales guy can't guarantee me that their double roller will fit. They don't sell a single roller for line honed engines. Really sucks actually, but I might just leave it alone. I don't want to swap timing sets for no reason.
How much did your crank and cam centerline change? My LSA block needed quite a bit of cleanup on the mains and came up just under 0.005", so I'm running the dual billet 0.005" timing setup, measures out dead-on, and definitely worth clearancing out the front cover to fit in my opinion.
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I have a double roller from an aussie company. The .010 set. They had to do my block twice because they f'ed it up.
Did you use the Cloyes set?
I can't imagine that my double roller would fit and a Cloyes wouldn't, but I would just be really pissed if I swapped timing sets and it didn't fix the cam sensor issue. Cloyes said they've never had any complaints about cam signal.
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Do you have a screen on the MAF? They are not very accurate at low flow but a screen will help a TON.
http://www.saxonpc.com/100mm-cells-for-100.html (http://www.saxonpc.com/100mm-cells-for-100.html)
You should be able to get the idle dialed into within a .2-.3 of stoich with a screen on the MAF. I know a lot of guys really like going SD but I just love how accurate the MAF is a WOT and as long as you aren't FI they hold up to power great.
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I don't have a screen in my maf tube. That was part of the reason of moving to the ls7 maf. Less restriction. Mah have to give in and put a screen in if I'm going to keep running off the maf.
Every time I tune the car in open loop I'm amazed at how much more responsive it is. You can get close if you have a dead nuts VE and maf curve but there's still some hesitation.
Anyways, I've done a lot of maf tuning. I'd like to give SD a shot. I plan on forcing it into PE pretty low in the rpm range. I want to step down to about 13.5 at part throttle and then at wot head to full enrichment. It should pick up a lot of part throttle torque and not have as big of a jolt when PE kicks in. Will hurt gas mileage though :)
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Please do that. You'll throw the MAF in the garbage.
I thought of switching to the 2 Bar SD OS, but for how hard the car is driven there is not much point in having closed loop functionality anyway.
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I've been wanting to. I know it's going to be way better of a driving experience. I just knew the cam swap was coming and I didn't want to tune the car twice. I anticipate this taking quite a bit of effort to get right.
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I've been wanting to. I know it's going to be way better of a driving experience. I just knew the cam swap was coming and I didn't want to tune the car twice. I anticipate this taking quite a bit of effort to get right.
If you are going SD only and doing your cam swap, tuning is going to be a bit extensive buddy. Take a look on the tune repository and see if anyone has that cam set up installed (your cubic inches or on a gm OEM cubed engine) with SD only. Hopefully you can find someone with a VE map in the ball park range to use as a base start.
Are you an E38 PCM? I have been tuning my trucks VE (E38 PCM 2008 5.3 sierra) with bluecats software.....man GM had to make the VE so over the top didn't they. What a pain compared to the old ls1 411 operating system. Much faster processor but so time consuming just to make changes
Anyway, it shouldn't be too bad, just lots & lots & lots of logging and refining. Lower kpa cells and above 4k both high/low kpa will be a pain but math is your friend with SD :)
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I have heard the e38 doesn't like SD tuning compared to the older pcms.
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I have an e40 pcm. Has its own issues... Like how my first one bricked itself on key on the first time. Overall it's easy to tune and the faster processing speed vs an 0411 pcm is really noticeable. Idle control is much smoother. Resolution on the tables is higher and speed of timing adjustment is much faster. Basically the same as e38 but more user friendly OS for tuning.
VE tuning is the same as 0411 pcm just a bigger table. Luckily it doesn't use GMVE or whatever it is. No spreadsheet required. Just multiply by percentage. MAF is the same but broken into high range and low range.
I'm actually thinking of doing closed loop speed density but only in low load ranges like idle and freeway cruising. I'm going to start with open loop VE tuning of course though.
I do figure it's going to be a lot of work, but mostly just time consuming. The VE table is pretty good right now. I can go wot to redline and it doesn't kill itself. Should it be a pretty linear shift with the cam change, or is it a clean slate?
I do have access to a couple loaded chassis dynos. I think I can get really close on the street though. Maybe just finish up the WOT tune at those places. Never done a VE tune on the dyno. I think I'd spend most of the time figuring out how to do it.
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Also I'm getting pretty pumped for this cam swap.
I was going through the traps 1k+ rpm past hp peak. I should pick up a lot just from shifting the powerband up... Not to mention the power gains from the cam itself. Too bad I'll only get one run before they kick me out. I figure 10's for sure on a good run.
Going to have to change the thread title haha
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Sweet, glad to read that the E40 doesn't have the E38 coefficients...THANK goodness for the mathematicians on hptuners who develop that VE coversion software so we can reap the benefit.
I don't know how much a cam change alters VE....my head swap changed so much on my tune but then again my head change was a drastic change. Maybe someone else on here can pipe in on cam tuning.
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Sandbag after the 1/8th until you get a feel for the launch then go all out and get booted :-p
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Sweet, glad to read that the E40 doesn't have the E38 coefficients...THANK goodness for the mathematicians on hptuners who develop that VE coversion software so we can reap the benefit.
I don't know how much a cam change alters VE....my head swap changed so much on my tune but then again my head change was a drastic change. Maybe someone else on here can pipe in on cam tuning.
Cam change majorly alters VE table lol, and even if you're at the same lambda, can change ignition characteristics as well.
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Sweet, glad to read that the E40 doesn't have the E38 coefficients...THANK goodness for the mathematicians on hptuners who develop that VE coversion software so we can reap the benefit.
I don't know how much a cam change alters VE....my head swap changed so much on my tune but then again my head change was a drastic change. Maybe someone else on here can pipe in on cam tuning.
Cam change majorly alters VE table lol, and even if you're at the same lambda, can change ignition characteristics as well.
Yeah that is what I figured. I was comparing a couple of before and after vette cam only tunes and the changes are GLOBAL. :D
Not hard to get ball bark but like stated earlier, time will be extensive (thats why I like keeping my MAF, after 4k you dont have to be as OCD with your %'s. I actually run my VE only to 3000 rpm instead of 4k.
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I guess I'll start tearing her down this weekend :) How tricky is it to sneak a cam out the front?
Comp finished the cam today. Shipping Monday.
Parts List:
Comp custom grind 226/242 117+5 .598/.605 EPS lobes
Dual springs
Trunnion upgrade
ATI 10% UD damper
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Pull the rad and that's about it. Don't even have to remove the bumper.
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That should be a nice pickup.
Have you sold the vette yet? When can I pick up my 1.85 rockers? :yay:
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It's still hiding in the garage haha. Out of sight out of mine. Managed to adjust the insurance with the Fiesta to be the same cost as just having the vette and the mazda...so that's good.
I very likely won't de-mod the vette when I sell it :[
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Like exidous said, cam swaps are pretty easy in the FD, once the rad is out there is plenty of space. Eps lobes? What changed your mind?
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EPS lobes were what I wanted to use the whole time I just didn't know if comp would grind them for me.
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It's still hiding in the garage haha. Out of sight out of mine. Managed to adjust the insurance with the Fiesta to be the same cost as just having the vette and the mazda...so that's good.
I very likely won't de-mod the vette when I sell it :[
Just PM me your address and leave your garage open :)
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Make the whole car disappear for $24k :yay:
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Make the whole car disappear for $24k :yay:
When did your C5 turn into a C6?
:drive:
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Make the whole car disappear for $24k :yay:
I may just do that, swap rockers and resell the car.
$24k is the AC blows ice cold price though :poke:
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I haven't done much market research (zero) but 24k I was thinking with all the AC parts and 25 is in tip top shape. All things are open to interpretation though haha.
I really don't know how the mods affect the price but the car is worth premium in my mind.
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I'd figure your mods might be 25-30 cents on the dollar for a 10+ year old c5.
Not trying to kick you in the nuts, just saying. You are kind of in a bad spot.. Tons of cheap, crappy, or high mileage C5s and C6s in ok shape are in the mid 20k range.
That said I don't think you are too far off on the price. The yellow might hurt it a little too. Is yours an 04?
You can probably make another $1000 by taking an afternoon to remove a few small parts that have value, yet don't really uplift the value of the car. I typically do this when selling modded used cars. The parts can be used as leverage to get the price you want, or sold after the sale of the car.
I did this when I sold my 04 cobra. I sold it for $1k less than my asking price, but the owner purchased $2k of parts I pulled off the car.
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Nah I figure as much. I haven't added up the mods but I'm probably about 5 to 6 into it. The total package came out very nice and that's more what I'm basing my potential asking price on. They served their purpose of making the car my own and having fun.
Honestly I'd be thrilled if I could get 25. That's what I paid for the car. The rest I consider water under the bridge as cost of ownership. I put 32k miles on the car in 2 years and had a blast. Getting my money back for that? Hell yea.
It's an 03. People don't dig the yellow?
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Nah I figure as much. I haven't added up the mods but I'm probably about 5 to 6 into it. The total package came out very nice and that's more what I'm basing my potential asking price on. They served their purpose of making the car my own and having fun.
Honestly I'd be thrilled if I could get 25. That's what I paid for the car. The rest I consider water under the bridge as cost of ownership. I put 32k miles on the car in 2 years and had a blast. Getting my money back for that? Hell yea.
It's an 03. People don't dig the yellow?
It's called Mellinium Yellow for a reason. People were into it 15 years ago :) My dad's c5 is yellow too.
I think you'll do ok on it. Throw it up on EBay with lots of pictures and a good description, it will sell. I bet you can easily get $22-23k. If you hold out you might get to your $24-25 figure.
My dads 01 has 50k miles on it and he is getting ready to sell. It is in perfect shape, and $18k is probably what he will take for it.
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Subbed - awesome build. Did you ever get it past the ref?
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Thanks!
No, I need to change the thread title. I said eff it. Cam swap hopefully done this weekend. Got screwed by some backordered parts but I have everything now.
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Are you done yet? I wanna see your new numbers.
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Busting ass today... Was gone all last week for business. Trying to get it running and tuned tonight for an autocross tomorrow.
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Autox where?
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Nmca at fontana. It's where speedventures does it. It's part of the drag race weekend.
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Well autocross is full. But the car is running. Didn't have to touch anything in the calibration at all... Once it's warm it's driving better than before off the maf sensor cal I had in there.
It kind of...it kind of idles like a rotary now. Rump rump rump rump rump......I got confused and bridge ported my ls2?
I'll have to redo a calibration but at least I have a driving car again :) It's about 3/4 of an air fuel leaner than before. My cal was super safe at 12:1 so that puts me right about 12.7-12.8. It sounds bitchin. Runs hard to 6800. Took some of the low end away below 4k. Made the powerband pretty similar to my zo6 actually which is kind of what I wanted. Played around with a new 5.0 with some bolt-ons and he was pretty surprised lol.
Tires... Found the limit I think. Poor things.
http://youtu.be/rJwY_Lggrv8 (http://youtu.be/rJwY_Lggrv8)
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Going to be time for an 8.8 swap here soon...
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I think the diff should die a slow death rather than a catastrophic one. It's braced up and has T2 internals with brand new bearings. If anything it might just get so noisy I want to change it. It whines pretty loud on the freeway, but I blame the front support for that.
I have a cobra 8.8 in the shed when the time comes haha.
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Tried to make a couple passes at Irwindale tonight. If I want some new times I'm going to have to head to Fontana. Between the vette and the FD I'm really damn tired of Irwindale lol. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
First pass the car was still hot. Just wanted to take it easy and see what kind of mph I was working with. Ran a lot slower than I thought it would, but I think it didn't run that great. Didn't data log it unfortunately.
Second pass...went for the hail mary. Wound up just working on getting closer to needing that 8.8. That's basically the same launch I did to pull a 1.78 at Fontana, but tonight it went straight into gnarly hop. Stupid me kept thinking it was going to drive through it. Whatever. Didn't break it lol.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1G7K0hSWs#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8pFbk2RWrU&feature=youtu.be#)
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If someone has a time machine can you go back to 2010 and tell me to port the heads?
Thanks.
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What happened to your smog legal setup?
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What happened to your smog legal setup?
He came to his senses.
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if i knew you were going to irwindale i would have stopped by! i haven't been there in a while, its lame that its 1/8 mile to me, and going fast in a straight line is only fun for so long.
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Sunshine I'll let you know next time. I don't go often but a friend of mine was nagging me to go and I was already in city of industry for work.
I wasn't going to get through a ref in modern times with my setup. Maybe a few years ago I could have. Car wasn't fast enough.
I rode in a c6z last night that was stock. I'm definitely faster than he is so that's cool.
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I rode in a c6z last night that was stock. I'm definitely faster than he is so that's cool.
I went to Irwindale when my car was full-weight, stock LS6-powered with 285 street tires (Hankook v12 Evo's)... ran against a brand new C6Z 3 times in a row and he only beat me once, by .002 lol. He was SO MAD.
Not surprised yours feels considerably faster.
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Gear ratios and traction help a lot too. He had worn out tires on baller wheels. First was a slip and slide. 2nd I think he short shifted. He kept lifting when 3rd started pulling and feeling good lol.
Stabbing the gas in 2nd in my car tends to get a bit of a reaction out of people haha.
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I don't think c6zs should give you much of a problem. I can typically reel them in on the straights on the road course if they are not head/cam cars.
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I think I give them too much credit. I put the c6z on a pedestal when it first came out in 06. A 10 second capable high 120's car stock with a 7000rpm 427 kind of made my teenage brain explode. I think in average real world conditions they're probably mid to high 11's at 125 at best.
It's always been the benchmark which I started building my car against.
I'm also starting to think my car came out really damn heavy lol. I need to get it on some scales sometime.
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Well I went out Tuesday night with the intention of working on my calibration and after one trip around the block and one run to redline I came back and the engine was missing pretty bad.
After three days of checking literally everything...I finally found it.
(http://i.imgur.com/cnGdnO2.jpg?1)
Soooooooo my cats are gutted now. Cut open a window, knocked out the core and welded them back up.
Went to fire the car after thrashing on it to get it finished and I had left my wideband O2 switch turned on and killed the battery over night. Yayyyyyyy. :banghead:
I think I'm gonna blame my heinous wheel hop at Irwindale last week on shattering the core. I'm really hoping it doesn't drone or sound stupid now with these big open chambers after the exhaust manifolds. I really do not want to work on this shit again any time soon unless it's for something cool. If the car stinks too much I may have to put high flows on it...but I've kind of read those just smell like rotten eggs instead of unburnt fuel. Arguably worse.
Kind of bad timing to happen after the cam swap. Now that there's no cats on it...really kind of makes sense to just throw some long tubes on it, but I spec'ed my cam for my restrictive smog legal exhaust...sooooo yeah.
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http://youtu.be/9B4GHMenCcA (http://youtu.be/9B4GHMenCcA)
Back to normal. Car sounds quite a bit nastier now. Lots louder. Some fun backfires on decel now too. Nice to have my car back...was a little worried for a while.
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I love the crackle an popping on decel. My caddy does it, but the Rx7 does not...too lean on decel I suppose.
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I love the crackle an popping on decel.
Same here. One of my favorite random little car "things". In my case I blame it on growing up around fast bikes which have always done that. It is just an endlessly entertaining sound.
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Pretty surprised your diff survived. I had a diff let go with less hop and slicker tires than that. One of the spiral gears split along the length of the shaft and wedged itself between my ring and pinion.
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Exidous did you break the stock diff? I rebuilt mine with a turbo 2 diff.
And yea backfires are super fun lol. These have some authority now with no cats in the way.
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Fun. My radiator is leaking now. Quite a bit. I guess it's cracked somewhere.
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Yup. Broken core. Huge leak right in the middle.
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After fire in decel is crazy on a loud, open exhaust. I just have spintech mufflers and when DFCO isn't working it sounds like fun fire. Fun when you know it is gonna happen, but the scared look on other peoples faces ha.
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What caused that leak?
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No clue...all I can assume is a bad core. Nothing hit it. All the fins are in good shape. Its right in the middle so it has nothing to do with the welds on the edges.
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Weird
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I have always assumed that with cam swaps, you have to run catless because how inefficient the engine idles due to the cam, especially with an aggressive LSA. Un-burned hydrocarbons will kill cats in no time.
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Ohlinssss!!
(http://i.imgur.com/ZpPxdkr.jpg)
Ohhhh no...
Yup that's like 6 leaks.
(http://i.imgur.com/mI4W89a.jpg)
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Those will be much better. What spring rates?
Has it been leaking since you started driving it?
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No. It pee'd the bed last week. When the radiator cap was removed it was pouring out of the holes in the core. Before that 100% sealed up.
Spring rates should be standard 11k/11k. A bit stiff, but people say the car rides phenomenally for such high spring rates. We'll see.
Considering swapping my sway bars back to OEM. I think the bar I have is giving quite a bit of cross talk between the wheels over bumps. I'll drive it first (when I figure out wtf to do...) and see how it is.
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Well the damping makes all the difference. Even my car is reasonable to drive on the street. My guess is that tour car will ride decently. For what you do with the car and the spring rates you have now, you are probably right to go back to OEM sway bars.
So what do you do with that? Have samberg send you a new radiator?
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I've sent a pm and a text. Waiting for the good news..
Radiators are done in group buy which sucks. I have no idea where he's at in production right now.
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Well you could just order a Howe core (or wherever he gets them from) and cut the end tanks off and weld them to a new core.
Anthony would be able to bang that out for sure.
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If you want to replace the core, I have to order a core to build a radiator anyway. Shoot me a pm if you want to do that.
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Look at that service.
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Pm sent. Lezdoittttt
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An old friend of mine swung by to help me install the coilovers yesterday. Last time he saw the car it looked a bit like it did on the first page :poke: He snapped a couple pics for IG when we finished up.
(http://i.imgur.com/v6nxD3U.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/WbvmbqO.png)
He has a really cool project going on. B110 Datsun with a high compression SR20 that runs on e85. Grafted in the entire S14 rear suspension under this thing. Pretty cool work. Going for a rally style build.
(http://i.imgur.com/PFfoQh7.png)
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I'm surprised I don't see a 2nd FD sitting around there somewhere... :secret:
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The silver headed step child had to get in line :punch:
It's helping with withdrawals though lol
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What are you gonna do with that thing?
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The thought right now is to give it some TLC, make a lot more power, have some fun with it and then sell it.
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Need... more... Datsun... info...
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https://instagram.com/functionelitist/
Don't know if he has a build thread, but posts to instagram a lot. Pretty sweet project!
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Be interested to know how you resolve your rad leak. My Samberg is leaking where the bottom tube meets the end tank.
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Anthony has ordered a radiator core for me. Going to run it out to him and he'll try to cut it apart and fix it. The core was $190 shipped so I'm willing to give it a shot. Haven't heard back from Justin, but it is what it is. The radiator is 4 years old even though it's only been used since January. I don't think the manufacturer would be willing to help once they saw the date code.
I never posted this pic. I thought it was cool. I nerded out and took a bunch of pictures. Guest parking lot at Toyota in Torrance.
(http://i.imgur.com/CQZ1v45.jpg)
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I want to drive my car!!!!!!!! Broken POS >:(
(http://i.imgur.com/jhWWRHM.jpg)
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I've been trying to get ahold of samberg for about 2 months. I got him one time on the phone, ordered my camber plates. He took my card info and said he would ship them, never charged me, never shipped them and won't return my emails, pm's.
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That sucks :/ I haven't heard any bad feedback about Justin. He must be super backed up. I texted and pm'ed him. Honestly I don't feel there's much he can do besides sell me another radiator so I haven't chased him up.
Anthony has dug into the radiator already. Got an end tank cut off. Hoping for continued good progress...
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6465eLWI8fPQlDo-IO7aVhUn9HCYEyeG31BPZ5Wd6v0=w1540-h867-no)
Haaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! Back on the road. Getting ready now for Fontana this weekend. Have a big group of guys heading out to the track. Going to use my one and done and see how deep into the 11's I can get.
The ohlins are pretty nice it seems. The car still follows the road really bad, but it's not crashing over bumps anymore. Need to get that alignment done. The ride height is at 24.75 in the front and 26.375 in the rear. Going to drop the back down and try to hit 25". I'll let the alignment shop set it for real, and maybe corner balance it.
It feels like the tires never come off the road though which is pretty sweet. I put the stock swaybars back on it too and with a first blast around the block I think the car is just happier overall. I would say I had the tokicos set too firm also so it's not truly A/B. The Ohlins are midrange right now in stiffness and I may even go a little softer.
The tune needs a lot of work. I only had one short night of effort into it before the radiator broke. It's running really rich and it dies at every stoplight. Still feels great to be driving it again.
Big thanks to Anthony for helping me out. He did the best job with what he had to work with. I don't think he'll be volunteering himself to do another job like this! I have to give him props. Some stuff definitely is different than before, but it all still fits in the car, hoses hook up, condenser bolts up, and the water stays on the inside...
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I had surging on throttle lift when coming to a stop where the enging would die with my cam. I run an E40 on MAF only and it was fixed with an airflow table per gear that I would have to look up. I basically set the value low I think, idled the car from cold to warm and put those actual airflow values in and it has been fine ever since.
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Nice. Yeah I have a maf cal that's pretty ok. Runs and drives fine. I'm working on a speed density cal for it. It idles nice, but it's not catching the rpm as the engine comes down right now. I'm not surprised though I've barely worked on the cal.
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I have some scales if you wanna corner balance it yourself...
Congrats on getting it running again!
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Thanks for the offer. I've got a racing buddy down in Gardena with a set too. How much does alignment move with ride height changes?
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You will want to set your ride height at a minimum, before alignment. The alignment settings will not change a ton (assuming no bump steer) but they will not be the same if you adjust the ride height after.
If you have put sway bars back on, do not bother corner balancing unless you have adjustable endlinks or can confirm that the bars are not preloaded with the endlinks you have.
Also did you check preload and overall shock lengths when you installed your new suspension?
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I just tossed them on the car. The ohlins I have use helper springs for preload instead of preloading the spring that hold the car up.
Was there something I should have looked at before I installed them?
The sway bars seem to be pretty free with the oem endlinks. Front and rear use rod end style end links. I can unhook them on one side before I scale it.
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Well unhooking the endlinks befor you scale is critical. You need to make sure the endlink bolt goes back in with no resistance with the car sitting on the ground or alignment rack. If there is resistance, you need to adjust the endlinks until there is no resistance.
Those helper springs are just there so you can run shorter springs and they don't fall loose under droop. But use those Ohlins look like you set preload and height with the same perch adjustment.
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I agree with you on the adjustment, and that makes sense about the endlinks. With the helper spring, so long as there is always contact even in full droop, doesn't that make preload inconsequential no matter the perch height? I am scratching my head a little bit on how the ride height adjustment works with the helper spring, but I'm sure it'll make sense when I start wrenching on it.
I'm going to start by just leveling out the ride height and seeing how the car drives. The front ride height seems to be similar to what it used to be. The rear will drop some which will gain some camber, but toe should stay where it was at.
I don't want to try and move heaven and earth by the weekend lol. It's going to be enough work just to tune the thing.
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The helper spring is just a spacer, that is it, it does nothing to change preload. Its only purpose in life is to keep the spring from falling off the spring perch when the car is in droop. It is in coil bind as soon as there is 100 lbs or so on the tire. You could easily remove the helper spring, but by the look of your picture a couple pages back, you would need to run longer springs to do so.
When you scale the car you will still adjust the preloads to even the cross weights.
The helper spring allows you to run some standard size spring front and back. This makes tuning the suspension a bit less costly because you only need springs in one free length. Loosen the jam nuts on the lower perch and give the lower perches a couple turns and see where you are at.
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Exidous did you break the stock diff? I rebuilt mine with a turbo 2 diff.
And yea backfires are super fun lol. These have some authority now with no cats in the way.
My FD stock diff grenaded. Was pretty spectacular. No damage to the car aside from the diff. Lot's of oil on the ground. I'm sure the T2 diff will hold much better.
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MMmmmm yes. This was incredibly simple.
(http://i.imgur.com/LRRV78c.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/t27WfPb.jpg)
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Eggcellent.
I am jealous of the Fontana/Eastvale garages.
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Much better!
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So the Ohlins are pretty nice so far. I have them adjusted nicely for about 90% of the bumps I've hit. The other 10% launch the car off the ground and break your back. I guess I need to soften it a bit more? I drove the car about 100 miles tonight. Took it down to Brea and had some fun at sea level...2nd gear at 4000 gets your attention. The car sounds so nasty with the cats gutted too. It's a blast. So so happy to have the car back. It just makes life better.
The car feels a lot more stable than with the Tokicos. Skittish was an understatement. I felt uncomfortable at times trying to drive hard through some corners with bumps that I think a civic would have handled fine at the same speeds. I think swapping the sway bars back to stock is a huge contributor there.
I started midrange out of 32 clicks on the dampers. Softened it 6 more clicks. Then gave it 2 back in the front to stop it from porpoising. I don't mind it being stiff, but the car can't come off the ground over the bigger bumps. It's just not going to work. Foot slams on and off the gas...it's just out of control.
Overall moving in the right direction though.
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(http://i.imgur.com/1ms5SXO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2syq3Hb.jpg)
I can make fireballs too :D I need to go out at night.
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Did you end up using the mr2 pump? did i just miss it reading the build looks like you have the gto one in there from the pics?
also im jelly you're back on the road :'(
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You know what, that thing is sitting in a box somewhere. I'm perfectly content with the GTO pump.
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haha maybe ill take a peak when i pick up the fuel pump 8). i still need all my accessories anyways
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Yeah I don't need it. Just need to find it! It's around here somewhere lol.
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I've watched this many times already :-[
http://youtu.be/GHhIwJ9DbW0 (http://youtu.be/GHhIwJ9DbW0)
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fontucky back roads? lol sounds beastly
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So I'm pretty damn happy.
Ran the test and tune day at Fontana yesterday. I was afraid to set a goal because Fontana is such a heartbreak track. I also really have no idea how much power I picked up with this cam. I never would have imagined it'd run this fast at Fontana in the middle of summer though...pretty stoked.
Not bad for a medium cam, stock heads and intake, and exhaust manifolds...
What's crazy is this last run was a hotlap. I was fighting fuel starvation issues all day. Started at a quarter tank...added some gas and it would still break up in 1st and 2nd. I made one last run because I was trying to squeeze out a 130mph pass. It didn't really love being hotlapped though I don't think.
I ran 1.5 mph SLOWER to the 1/8 mile than I did with the old cam...and then picked up 35mph on the backhalf. No nitrous I promise :) So it's still got quite a bit in it on a good full run, but I'm out of mph at the top end. I need a 3.90 gearset :punch:
DA was 4400 feet, 96*, and 20% humidity.
1.826 sixty foot
7.514 660'
95.33mph
11.422
129.85mph
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvUPkt25IEg#)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a1kR4I5xHdhVs4zPBqe7JJMSgLF9-m6hIfXoo3V5ONU=w1395-h785-no)
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thats awesome, pretty much what id like too shoot for 11 seconds on a "stockish" motor cant really beat that in a 90's car
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Thanks dude honestly I'm still pretty surprised. I thought I'd have to do some more work to get to the 130 mark. On a different day with a clean run I'd be able to get there pretty easy.
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Im sure you're just a set of headers away from it
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It's there already for sure. I probably won't hit the drag strip again though for a long time. Don't want to break anything. Syncros in the trans aren't happy. Every launch is rolling the dice on the diff if I get it wrong (see the video a couple pages back...)
Something in the top end is probably not super happy spinning 7300 rpm through the traps either. It has an odd engine note when I get up there. I'm thinking maybe lifters as these are stock L92 lifters.
I'm looking for a set of 3.90 gears. That'd help as well.
Next on the list would be heads, intake, headers maybe...although it's pretty damn cool to go this fast with exhaust manifolds. Would pick up 50-60 easy...I guess if I have to rebuild the trans someday it could be a "while you're at it" kind of thing. Just money..
8-10 psi would be about 800 horsepower how it sits...that'd be ridiculous haha. LS9 blower with no hood. Burnout machine.
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Ya i couldnt even imagine that much power at 8 to 10 psi lol im used to my subi's and honda's 10 psi is 300ish hp if your lucky lol.
I still havnt even picked up a trans :( lol I've constantly been finding chassis issues sucks!
Pretty sure my front frame fork needs a little pull and my support is tweaked. my simple "eh i can do the swap for 15k" lol just keeps adding up. Cant wait though watching your vids, the other guys vids and build reads makes me want to go into debt lol
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There's a 10 second run in there with a solid 60ft time. Very nice. :bacon:
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MMmmmm yes. This was incredibly simple.
(http://i.imgur.com/LRRV78c.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/t27WfPb.jpg)
:D :D :bacon: :bacon:
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Holy shit...
So, I did an experiment just now.
1. I cannot believe they fit. It still blows my mind.
2. Holy shit.
The way this car handles is phenomenal. Transformation. Totally different car.
Here's the rundown.
Old setup:
17x9 RPF1's w/ 255/40/17 square R888's
41 pounds per corner
New setup:
18x10.5 CCW classics w/ 285/30/18 square AD08's
46.5 pounds per corner
Cons:
Less straight line traction.
Shorter tire by .3"
Heavier by 5.5 pounds per corner.
Pros:
The car will rip asphalt from the ground.
I'm not certain what exactly the change was that is so different, but I'm thinking it's just a combination of everything. Width, compound, and sidewall height. The R888's are probably amazing at temperature, and I do still love them, but this thing is so damn nimble right now. It felt like the wheels were stuck in mud before by comparison.
I'm thinking straight line stick will get better as the tires heat cycle a couple times. They've been sitting a while. The grip definitely got better the more I tossed them around.
Just worried it's going to be slow as shit now in a straight line with these bohemoths rolling down the road.
(http://i.imgur.com/gdnLndp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/X3vEQpH.jpg)
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Looks good.
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So straight line traction is definitely an issue. 2nd gear is a bit like 1st used to be. Can't have everything I guess...
It also rubs something inside when it hits a big bump. Need to figure out what's going on there too. Not a slam dunk yet.
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Call up Farrah and tell him you want him to drive the car again :P
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I think if Farrah drove it right now he wouldn't be saying it's more refined and feels like a vette. I think that's good though. Although I think he drove a better version of the car for a complete newbie.
@largeorangefont I put some tire under it like you said haha. I thought AD08's would hook a bit better. 2nd gear is quite a spin fest.
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Excellent.. what size did you get?
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Excellent.. what size did you get?
They came as a part of the package deal from Mike :yay: 285/30/18 AD08's, 18x10+50.
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oh boy.. I forgot you bought that car. Welcome to Flavor Country!
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We're you able to get the smell of Astroglide and Cheetos out?
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Would I want to?
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*And Aspercreme and tough actin tinactin..
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Wheels look good man. Can't go wrong with CCW's. Please make my wish come true and convert your front end to a 99 spec. It would drop jaws everywhere you go. White is so damn good looking on the fd.....very boner material lol.
I feel like a dumb shit, I never really read through your whole thread. (42 mins later)....MAN you had a busy time during your build! Meticulous is an understatement :). Great work buddy. PS when your dad gets tired of the L92 in his wagon, send it my way so I can stuff it in my 08 Sierra......I have my little LH6 puffing as hard as it can in stock trim with hptuners hahaha
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Haha hey man. Yeah the CCW's are awesome. Always been a huge fan, especially on the FD for some reason. I'm hoping the 285's aren't a problem up front in real life.
I actually prefer the old nose. I know I'm weird ;D I've got some hot water labs headlights coming for the car that're really going to change up how the front looks. Should have a little more attitude as it gives it some angry eyes haha.
That L92 is beastly. The wagon just keeps running faster and faster. I've been 10.29@130 in that wagon at Fontana. At Sonoma the thing might even have a 10.0x pass in it.
Unless you want to be towing at 7000 rpm I don't think the L92 is the best for your Sierra hahaha
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The 285's won't be a problem, been driving around with my 295/30's with no issues. I think your rear gear is most of your traction issue, I'm running 3.73 with my ao48 yoks and once you put a little heat it them they work.
Your car keeps looking and getting better, a few more tweaks and you'll be lovin it even more.
Btw just came back from some spirited street driving, brakes work awesome but I will be definitely be needing some better pads for the track.
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Hey Paul. That's good to hear. I'm on mostly stock fenders (only slight roll up front which wasn't on purpose and the rear lip is trimmed a little). I need to pop the wheels off and see where it rubbed on the inside, but other than that I think I agree with you!
I had so much fun with my 4.10's when the tires were stuck...I don't want to neuter the car after just being so thrilled that I went (nearly) 130 in the quarter haha. I can always throw the r-comps back on if I need to, but with these CCW's I can fit a BBK up front and I can't under the enkeis...that'd make it kind of permanent.
Thanks for the compliments! I do feel like the car is really taking leaps and bounds still, and I have a lot of neat stuff coming very soon too. One thing I've been waiting on since January...
Great to hear about the brakes. I don't think you'll have any reliability or fade issues with the 309 pad on the track, but I wouldn't be surprised if you wanted something a bit more aggressive. If I had to guess you're lacking some initial bite? Before you hit the track let me know and we can talk about options. I can do a good deal on either some ST track pads, or anything from Hawk. We could even just throw some aggressive pads on front and let her rip..
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I actually prefer the old nose. I know I'm weird ;D I've got some hot water labs headlights coming for the car that're really going to change up how the front looks. Should have a little more attitude as it gives it some angry eyes haha.
I like the original front better, too.
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So the date code on those Yokohamas is from 2011. Now it makes sense why I'm spinning 2nd at half throttle when PE kicks in haha.
Not gonna lie...I'm having some fun with it lol.
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That would explain it..... But with the power your making it's not like your ever going to get it to hook up completely, your always going to have forward moving type spin in the first 2 gears, maybe even alittle of third.
Your right pads are great, they don't fade but initial bite is lacking, they are great for the street and easy to modulate but I think they won't be what I need on track.
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So I've been keeping tight lipped about this one for a while.
I started talking with Toby Broadfield back in January. Me being the pain in the ass I am...ordered his most customized set of speedhut gauges yet :) I spent a week just digging through gauge cluster pictures.
I finally settled on going with a Mclaren F1 inspired gauge design. I mean...Is there a more badass car from the 90's than that?
(http://i.imgur.com/YdFhcTn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/j7ALsWc.jpg)
Seems like Speedhut did a great job on the design, and Toby did a fantastic job with the install. I can't wait to see these in person and get them in the car!
(http://i.imgur.com/kB780fd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4E0pTGR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1M5QSWf.jpg)
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That looks nice!
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this explains why your cluster hood was missing in your car lol
Probably forgot to even ask where it was due to being deliriously happy on a joy ride :drive:
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this explains why your cluster hood was missing in your car lol
Probably forgot to even ask where it was due to being deliriously happy on a joy ride :drive:
Oh you finally got a ride in one!
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Daniel was kind enough to let me ride in 2 of them 8) was a good week lol
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Wow! Nice looking cluster Daniel
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Wow! Nice looking cluster Daniel
Funny how you started a cult with the speedhuts. Did you notice the Falcon F7 uses speedhuts too?
Daniel:
Love the gauges!
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Thanks everyone :D I'm really excited obviously. For a couple months I haven't had a gauge hood in the car so my cluster has just been bouncing around. I was surprised no one mentioned anything when I posted the drag race vid haha.
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Thanks everyone :D I'm really excited obviously. For a couple months I haven't had a gauge hood in the car so my cluster has just been bouncing around. I was surprised no one mentioned anything when I posted the drag race vid haha.
We all just thought your car was an unfinished POS... I kid. :yay:
On a semi related note, does the FD really have a 20 gallon fuel tank? I ask because of the labeling of your fuel gauge.
My Speedhut fuel gauge is not linear at all. The needle does not move off of full until I am at about half tank.
My CTS-V on the other hand has the most linear fuel gauge of any car I have ever driven.
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Haha it always is.
I kind of hate linear fuel gauges. The vette one moves as soon as you drive out of the gas station. Very unnerving. This was more of an aesthetic choice than expecting to know the actual gallon amount in the tank.
Yeah it does have a 20 gallon tank...it hurts lol. Been good recently. Without an odometer I can only guesstimate my fuel consumption. Shooting fireballs I'd estimate around 12-15mpg.
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I kind of hate linear fuel gauges. The vette one moves as soon as you drive out of the gas station. Very unnerving. This was more of an aesthetic choice than expecting to know the actual gallon amount in the tank.
Yeah it does have a 20 gallon tank...it hurts lol. Been good recently. Without an odometer I can only guesstimate my fuel consumption. Shooting fireballs I'd estimate around 12-15mpg.
So what you are saying is you are getting better mileage than it did from the factory.. Your mileage will skyrocket with a set of 3.55 gears in that thing. I did not know they had such large fuel tanks.. nice.
Mark called me last week freaking out about how quickly the gas gauge in my old CTS-v was moving. The linear gauge coupled with the ridiculously small fuel tank make for some hair raising drives when you get on the gas.
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Lol yeah probably. I'm still having fun with my short gearing ;) I also think the FD diff has less parasitic loss than an 8.8 will. It has to. I don't mind bombing around at 2500 rpm on the freeway. I only want 3.90's so I can go low 130's in the quarter if I go to bakersfield.
My tune is getting better and is helping a lot with fuel consumption. It was dumping fuel every time I lifted off the gas. I only ever averaged like 18-22 in my vette in real life. I should be able to get the same in the FD I'd think. Too bad I floor it everywhere.
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The stock diff probably does have less loss than the 8.8.. but it also might blow up eventually :) A good torsen style diff in that thing will make it a treat to drive.
I know you have the GTO t56... All the shifting might get old eventually with such a wide powerband.
The Mike's old FD has the Fbody box in it correct?
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Yeah it does. Believe me I've thought about that swap.
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Yeah it does. Believe me I've thought about that swap.
I'd keep thinking until you have 2 cars on jackstands and 2 transmissions on the floor :)
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Too late car's gone :yay: :confused: :( :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:
Some instagram pics from the past couple days. I've been using it a lot. It's been performing flawlessly. I couldn't be happier. It's almost surreal to have such a high performing car that just doesn't slow down. You can keep thrashing on it and it doesn't complain...seems like there should be some kind of trade-off.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q6Mq0rfk9iX1fPQP8HILyxIuTJXjiLSrgssT49m1M1A=s960-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2TXXBhlKfs3qobbXsnhARCjBy6RI3lpxGkHb7Waw8g0=s1080-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OPxze4nBnX7yqoOiWFIcRV-AHQYGuk0-Xs_2gkxe-sY=w800-h600-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y4aQ9xjUSqcLNjDzPTQ7EbaQH0Iyixv7lAZe0Qwl4yA=w1326-h746-no)
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Cars looking fantastic
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Boner worthy!
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Yea that looks way better. So you flipped the other one already? Nice!
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Yep Matt (shifts7) came over to buy a fuel pump from me and he drove my car and we looked at Mike's. He came back very quickly to buy Mike's car :) A little sad that I won't be able to build the retarded track car I was planning on, but I'm happy not to have the extra work. I even bought a stupid huge cam for the ls1. I kind of hit critical mass when I bought Mike's and I'm in liquidation mode now.
Some low-res practice shots a buddy took of my car the other night. He wanted the lights up, because 90's.
Gauges get here Thursday. UPS got delayed for some reason. Jerks.
I need to take the wheels to a repair shop and see how bent the lips are on these CCW's. Other than that I love em...They could use a refinish - paint or powder?
(http://i.imgur.com/ONfXNHb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tj7p9yl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iRxwDvy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FaPvLBm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hT79v76.jpg)
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Those wheels look familiar :wave: Looks great buddy. I'm kinda biased though :P
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Car looks good. On the wheels I'd do brushed lips and powder coated gunmetal/charcoal/black centers.
You can take this one to the track just the same :) I'd better see you out there.
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Oh I want to. Sevenstock barring extreme unforseen events.
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That is good news.
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Preliminary scale results...
2885 pounds with 3/8 of a tank! Overall comparing to curb weights I'm 100 pounds over stock, 30 pounds of which comes from my heavy ass wheels.
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And most of the rest is the heavy T56 trans. And you still have cast iron exhaust manifolds on it right?
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Yup. Cast iron manifolds and dual 2.5" stainless front to back.
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Thanks Bud :yay: and Thanks Mike!
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k509/vintagemtg/IMG_0741_zpsrgkiepkw.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/vintagemtg/media/IMG_0741_zpsrgkiepkw.jpg.html)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h0RwB_hgVRo83DDH31CzVtRJn7pWuMcakgOVXOLiQyw=w1342-h755-no)
That's with me in the car. 51% front, 49% rear with 3/8 tank of gas. With a full tank it will be more rear biased than front.
As close as I cared to get it. Happy with my ride heights so I stopped here. If I had adjustable end links I would have tried harder.
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I need to get on it and get mine balanced as well. Did it take much to get the cross weights dialed in?
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I somehow started out very close. I only made 2 sets of adjustments. I raised the left rear 1/8" because the car was too low and raised the RR 1/4". After that I raised the left front 1/8". I jumped on the door jambs after adjustments to get the ride height to settle and it worked really well.
I dropped the cross weight by about a percent I think, so that's cool.
The rear adjustment on my car can be done with the wheels on so that's easy. The big thing for me was just to see how much the car weighed, and I was pleasantly surprised :)
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Good balance! :cheers:
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Uhhhhhhh
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/53ChpScwZ1GSszEDodj56T7UtwOCUeqfNRqISPdTsPU=w439-h247-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EBfiBYCJQtQxBGdxJed8a67VPv3jbkkh76ByD9aCZQc=w610-h1084-no)
7 of my 10 ring gear bolts were finger tight and backing out. I pulled the diff because it was thumping once per rotation...head of a bolt was hitting the cap. Holy shit. Lucky. Fluid looked fine and everything inside is in great shape. I think all the bolts must have yielded?? Going to look for some ARP bolts or something and up the torque and put the bitch back in.
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Should have put an 8.8 back in. :secret:
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Nope. Get it back on the road!
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Well that is good.
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I thought it was donezo. Strange issue but I'm not mad lol.
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Yea that was a really close call. Did you ever have that diff open?
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Nah I'm leaving it all assembled. I'm actually really happy with the ring gear and the fluid came out looking good. Not much on the magnetic drain plug. It was still working great in the car.
I need to figure out where to get some new bolts and permanently locktite them in.
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That's so weird.... The same thing happened to my buddies e46 m3 many years back. We think it happened from over heating, if that makes sense.
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Very possible. It's been 105+ all day and I drove the car for hours. Long stretches on the freeway. Maybe melted out the locktite?
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Yes, exactly what we were thinking when it happened to his but he wasn't so lucky.... Lots of damage
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Well loctite red needs heat around 400 F to release.. If your diff was that hot it would have exploded. Mazda may have used some other sealer on it though.
Could always try green loctite :)
Since you have it apart, you should wrap your exhaust where it passes by the rear subframe and diff area. It will cool the diff 10-15 degrees.
I'd get some new factory bolts, with fresh red or green loctite and call it good.
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That's the plan. They used the same diff bolts for just about everything. I hope the stealership has some. Going to green locktite them in. I'll take a look at a heat shield as that can only help.
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(http://i.imgur.com/OjswPcL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RLLEKec.jpg)
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Looking good!
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In the first picture, you look like you are thinking about how if this wasn't a photo shoot, people would think my rotary broke down
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Hahaha harsh :D
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Very nice car. Would look great with some tint to add contrast and set off those nice wheels.
:bacon: :drive:
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How you look in Texas without Tint. I don't know how you do it!
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090209220950/villains/images/1/11/Two_Face.jpg)
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God I am such an old man haha I hate driving cars with tint at night. I just can't stand it. I do agree it'd look really nice though.
My car has got some rainbow lens flare fetish going on. Not sure what it's trying to tell me. Pics look nice though ;)
Went a little aggressive in the rear with a 12mm spacer. Had to trim on the rear lip some to get it to fit. A previous owner had already cut on them so I figured why not...was a little sketchy but all worked out.
Before spacers.
(http://i.imgur.com/iMS3dPp.jpg)
Checking fitment.
(http://i.imgur.com/NYHwwOF.jpg?1)
Looks Goodman.
(http://i.imgur.com/eFSOV8X.jpg)
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Juan at J-auto hooked me up with the last set of APR mirrors in stock :) Super happy with them for the price. Very impressed.
(http://i.imgur.com/rUwOdMD.jpg)
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Realized a few of my pics were broken on this page. Just fixed em :)
Dyno-ing tomorrow evening. Should be fun!
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Interested to see what it puts down.
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I'm thinking 483whp. Normally I would not guess that high but I think it runs better than it should for exhaust manifolds and a stock top end.
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I'm guessing 465rwhp
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Dyno is done! Good guess Paul :)
It was hot as hell today. Something like 105 degrees. Not really great dyno weather, but it is what it is. I didn't have hptuners hooked up so I'm not really sure if I was getting my full commanded timing. I may have been down a couple degrees.
It put down 468hp and 451 ft lb. Torque peak at 4600 and power peak at 6200. Power falls off pretty fast up top. Not really what it feels like in the old butt dyno, but it repeated 3 runs in a row perfectly on top of itself. I regularly shift at 6800-7 in lower gears and it's pulling like a mofo.
I guess I need bigger cylinder heads :)
Overall super happy. Pretty crazy how fast the car is with such a modest power number. The torque is really impressive imo, especially with exhaust manifolds. Stock top end and exhaust manifolds going 130 NA is pretty stout...
(http://i.imgur.com/W1kHDP0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/alJXNsK.jpg)
Video starts a bit late but you get the idea
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3biAPiXCeM&feature=youtu.be#)
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Wow, I was only off by 3hp. I had a feeling the number wouldn't be as high as you thought, stock heads and intake just don't allow enough air in to get the big numbers. I'm sure it feels strong because your low and mid range must be great but its getting choked up top.
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Wow, I was only off by 3hp. I had a feeling the number wouldn't be as high as you thought, stock heads and intake just don't allow enough air in to get the big numbers. I'm sure it feels strong because your low and mid range must be great but its getting choked up top.
Yeah nice guess haha! I used to say 460whp, but I couldn't believe I went 130mph with that little power so I upped my guess. These cars are pretty impressive, and yeah it's a rocket at torque peak.
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Man oh man the #'s will jump once you get the itch to let it breathe better! 8) Regardless, those are awesome numbers man! Our power to weight ratio really throws the hp/trq guessing game for a loop....I sometimes forget just how light we are compared to other LS based vehicles.
BTW that was a nice "rotary wanna-be" back fire at the end there ;) :cheers:
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No kidding right? If I could just add another 500rpm of airflow it'd be in the 500's without trying hard.
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How do you like the apr mirrors? Got any better pics of them?
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I love the mirrors. They do vibrate a little so it's not the sharpest image going down the road. They're also tinted "closer than they appear" mirrors on both sides. I have no issues so far though. I think they kill it in the looks department.
For $290 it is a great product.
(http://i.imgur.com/VtLX9L2.jpg)
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I'm think I'm going to get a set..... I'm bored and need to spend some money.... Lol
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God that sounds familiar lol.
J-auto is a vendor here and sells em. Cool dude.
The toughest part of the install was getting the paint to clean up. The mirror base is smaller than stock so you're going to have a hard outline of where the mirror used to be. I had to clay bar the shit out of it to get rid of the line. I also used a lot of compound and then waxed it, but the clay bar with pretty decent pressure and a ton of quick detailer worked the best.
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what type of diffuser is that? shine RE style street diffuser? either way, it looks great
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what type of diffuser is that? shine RE style street diffuser? either way, it looks great
Yup, shine! Lip spoiler too.
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nice, how was the fitment for the rear? The front looks like it fits real nice.
I'm about to put in an order for the same rear diffuser from shine but in cf.
I really do hope the fitment isn't too bad.
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Overall it's a nice part. Mine is frp. Should fit the same. There is a little gap where it transitions from being outside the bumper to the inside. Make sure you get good screws that you can really crank down. Only issue I've had is a couple screws falling out.
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Such a clean swap and work as a whole. Great work on the car and i saw the episode of tuned with your car in it but i was halfway throught he thread before i realized it was the car from the video haha.
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So I stimulated the economy today.
Ordered a t56 magnum from liberty with 5/6 OD swap... 2.66 1st with .74/.50 swap. Also ordered monster's twin disk with light flywheel to go with it. Same weight as a stock ls6 clutch with a 9.5" disk... Low low low moment of inertia. Should rev like mad.
I am back home for good in 3 to 4 months. Can't freaking wait...
What should my GTO T56 with monster stage 2 go for? 50k mile trans 9k mile clutch.
(http://www.tremec.com/images/prod/3.jpg)
(http://monsterclutches.com/image/cache/data/clutches/lt1-s-twin-disc-500x500.jpg)
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Nice setup! I'd think that setup should be around 2000-2200 with clutch.
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Nice gearing for a street car. It is going to rip..
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Nice setup! I'd think that setup should be around 2000-2200 with clutch.
That's right where I was thinking as well... I'll have about 3k invested all in with a splurge of a clutch purchase. Building up my t56 would be not much less than that and wouldn't have nearly as many benefits.
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[smg id=8335 type=preview align=center caption="zoolander 5"]
Can't go wrong with a Magnum man!
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I'm interested to see how this goes.....I want to get rid of my T56 as well, I think its one of the items that makes driving the car feel like a truck.
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..
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We told you girlfriends are expensive.
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Well hello there :wave:
I moved back to Socal about a month ago after my year long stay on the East Coast. Couldn't freaking wait to get home. I am not really fond of a life lacking cars...note for future self. It was worth it career wise, but wore on me big time being long distance with my girlfriend, away from family, and completely lacking any hobbies. I spend 20+ weekends a year at a racing event and the rest of the time doing car stuff. It leaves a really big void to go from that to zero.
Things have been awesome since I've been home. First two weekends I spent at drag strips, but since then I've been working on my cars as much as possible.
Luckily my girl is a total badass and doesn't just put up with me living in the garage, but is right there with me the whole time. She's all about learning more about cars and actually wrenching on stuff with me. When I moved back I had a leaky radiator (again...) leaking water pump (throwing coolant on absolutely everything) and a dead battery. Not the welcome home I wanted from this POS. We jammed out a water pump swap, filled it with stop leak (this pained me...thanks Samberg!), and swapped the battery. I wanted to get it running and driving before the major tear-down.
I drove it for a week and had a blast with it. Saw some old friends, cruised around to a couple meets, and just used it as my daily for a few days.
(http://i.imgur.com/LPOGdYK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sQpQFkc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gLbn2Dm.jpg)
I had my dad go look at a miata a month before I moved home and wound up buying it. It is a 2000 that has all flyin miata suspension, cute little genuine 15" works, a 3.90 LSD, and a COLOR MATCHED HARD TOP!!! I put Handcook RS3 V2 tires on it that were on clearance by Tire Rack. Anywho - super stoked. It is a little rougher in some areas than I'd have expected, but pretty solid car and super happy to be back in a miata again. The issue was it was taken 100% apart and then sold to an airplane mechanic who moooooooostly got all the bolts back in the right spot? It just has a few gremlins, but I'm quickly sorting them out and in the process it is really becoming my own. This thing is just goofy fun - but not 100% sorted yet to my standards.
Also 3 days after driving it SOMEONE BACKED INTO IT and didn't leave a note. Found a neighbor who had an Odyssey who claimed they "backed into a trash can" but they accepted responsibility and at least I didn't have to cover the $500 deductible. It has been in paint jail for over a week. They had issues with the paint and needed to keep it the weekend. Had them do the passenger fender and hood also so I'm a little antsy to see it. Hoping it doesn't come back 5 different colors.
(http://i.imgur.com/KIiTvS2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zbrrZvN.jpg)
It has a few oil drips from the engine and trans so I did the logical thing and got some overnight parts from Japan - Late model VVT engine with way better intake and exhaust design. Going to port on the head a little and blueprint it a bit and expect to gain a solid 30 ft lb and 30 horse with the addition of megasquirt. With only 100whp stock that is a major kick in the chonies. Never going to be a speed demon of course, but the extra power and addition of VVT will make it way nicer to drive, feel lighter and (bi)curiously quick :)
So my super reliable daily is now a project as well. I have a problem :banghead:
And I'm not joking...got the engine from Garden Grove from a JDM import shop and ate lunch across the street from where Johnny Tran shot up Dom and Brian in F&F1 - NOOOOOOOOOOOOS
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hxOoM0-NJI#)
(http://i.imgur.com/xu8hcR1.jpg)
Back to the FD - Big news...we got a lift! My grandpa closed out a shop he has stored a couple cars in for years and well..thanks Pops!! Find a way people...find a way.
Got the entire drive train taken out and halfway sold. Anyone who wants a T56 or driveshaft let me know! I also pressure washed the hell out of the underside of the car and it came out gorgeous.
(http://i.imgur.com/dizSUb0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DPAdgbd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0Tx9GaJ.jpg)
So where I'm at now...need to rebuild the 8.8 with new bearings, Torsen T2R and the 3.73's I bought. I put my monster LT1-S twin disc in today. The trans is ready to go in...and then basically need to mount up the 8.8 and fab a new exhaust section to clear it and I'm good to go!
Full mod list -
Liberty Gears T56 Magnum with 2.66 first and .76/.50 OD swap - Full Fbody gear ratios (with 3.73's this will drop 80mph cruise from 2500 to 2000rpm, and 130 will be at 6500 in 4th instead of 7200!)
American Powertain White Lightning Shifter w/ rear offset for stock shifter location
Drive Shaft Shop 31 spline yoke to Cobra 8.8 flange w/ 1350 U-joints
Monster LT1-S small diameter twin disc clutch w/ light flywheel (factory stingray clutch w/ solid hub and conversion aluminum flywheel - super low MOI)
Cobra 8.8 with 3.73 gears and Torsen T2R
Gonna throw an oil cooler in as well either behind the rad or maybe fitting in the stock location if it still fits with my relay box
And, well, I'd be in trouble if the only pic I posted of the girlie is her under the car in gym shorts ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/xXmnr4B.jpg)
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Recommendations for bushings for the Cobra 8.8? Skeptical of delrin or aluminum as I put a lot of miles on this thing...don't want it whining, buzzing, squeaking etc. NVH and smoothness improvement is near top of the list for reasons for doing all this.
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Recommendations for bushings for the Cobra 8.8? Skeptical of delrin or aluminum as I put a lot of miles on this thing...don't want it whining, buzzing, squeaking etc. NVH and smoothness improvement is near top of the list for reasons for doing all this.
Well for the Cobra 8.8 you dont have many options. The Poly bushings can melt. The OE bushings suck. You are stuck with Delrin or aluminium if you want reliability. You can try Poly, but keep an eye on them. Perhaps put a heatsheild near them in a attempt to keep them alive. Also wrap your exhaust with header wrap where it passes under the subframe.
Keep in mind with the Samburg setup the diff will want to rise with flexible bushings and this could crack the mounting ears, so a solid mount strengthens the assembly... Unless you are addressing a upper support some other way.
With the Ronin Exploder conversion you can use the OE front bushings. I know that does not help you.. just saying.
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I drove an FC with aluminum bushings and cobra dif, it was hella loud (clunked, slight whine and vibration). My explorer dif with OE bushings is un-noticeable. My sugggestion would be swap out with ronnin explorer kit....
Oh and upgrade that girlfriend to wife. She is way out of your league... :)
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I drove an FC with aluminum bushings and cobra dif, it was hella loud (clunked, slight whine and vibration). My explorer dif with OE bushings is un-noticeable. My sugggestion would be swap out with ronnin explorer kit....
Oh and upgrade that girlfriend to wife. She is way out of your league... :)
In fairness you should not have any real vibration with the solid Cobra diff mounts (that is another problem), but you will have gear wine, and potentially a bit more clunking than you heard previously.
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Thanks guys! I've read you say that the poly bushings melt. Also have seen the same on cobra forums. Seems it's induction heat from the diff vs radiant exhaust heat? One thing that had me considering poly at least to try is that I'll be running a Torsten which makes quite a bit less fluid heat but without a cooler it'll just continue to heat up. I strongly dislike gear whine for how much I drive on the freeway...it's just a noise that cuts through everything.
I know the exploder kit is the new hotness, but I really feel that the root cause of the ear issue lies elsewhere. If properly fixtured those mounting ears don't care if they're held on the top or the bottom. The ears should be loaded in shear. Maybe it'll make more sense when I have it locked up in the car.
I started collecting parts 3 years ago for the cobra swap and picked up axles and the subframe on a relative steal from another member comparatively so I guess I'll be figuring it out.
If it does need support from the top I'll weld something in.
And yea she's a babe :)
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I've see high HP Cobra rear cars bend 1/4" thick tool steel washers with poly mounts. Watch those things of you launch it like you mean it.
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Damon's car right? If I recall the washer got pulled into the ID of the ear.
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The Torsen is typically worth 10-15 degrees cooler diff temps. Wrapping the exhaust nets you another 15-20 degrees. Those numbers are while driven in anger. When driving like a normal person the Torsen and clutch diffs run the same temp. The exhaust wrap will always help keep heat out of the diff by 10 degrees or so under normal driving conditions.
You don't want a diff cooler on a street car.
If you run the poly, buy 2 sets just in case. The reason they melt is from both diff temp, and radiant heat. I don't think you'll have a problem on the street or AutoX with them.. but just keep an eye on them. Maybe you can fashion a little diffuser to get some air up in that area.
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Cool beans. Thanks for the info. The bushings look cheap so nbd.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CpPUVb0.jpg)
Preview of everything I'm doing wrong.
Milled the bat ears off the explorer cover I had. Hoping it fits. Textured black powder coat. Cut one of the legs off the subframe for exhaust clearance.
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I don't think I would've cut that leg off the subframe. :scratch: That component takes a lot of stress under hard acceleration.
My 3" dual exhaust clears my subframe without any real problems, and that's with 4 mufflers and an X-Pipe in the system.
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The diff nose is raising up under accel which is going almost 100% into the crossmember. The stock diff w/ Samberg mount is mounted with ears in the back and a crossmember only in the front. Those legs do add some chassis stiffness so there is some loss there I suppose, but I had no legs on the last setup.
Trying to reuse as much of my old dual exhaust as I can and it ran basically right where that leg was.
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I agree with Cobranut, someone posted a video on here some time ago of the cross member flexing during a dyno pull and it was scary. Assuming 450 ft lbs at the motor, a 2.6:1 first gear and 3.5 final drive the reaction forces are something like 4000 ft lbs at a steady state, sidestep the clutch with the inertia of the flywheel/clutch at 6000rpm and the instantaneous torque is far higher.
My large torque wrench goes up to 750 ft lbs and I would think twice before applying that to the side of the final drive.....
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I used a press to oval my exhaust pipe in that area.. cheaper than buying oval pipe.
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Getting closerrrrrrrrrrrr
Built the Cobra diff with my new to me T2R diff, 3.73 gears, and all new bearings.
(http://i.imgur.com/4SP4JJT.jpg)
Explorer cover modified heavily to fit. Happy to see the explorer cover fit with the samberg setup...saved me a little money, has cooling fins, and a bit more capacity than the cobra cover.
(http://i.imgur.com/sJv3kC7.jpg)
Everything fits!! The rear exhaust section didn't need any modification except a little love under the crossmember. Can't see it here because the muffler section isn't on, but my exhaust routed right where that tube went that I hacked out.
The crossmember fit...pretty good? It needed 1/4" spacers under the front mounting tabs. It also needed an extra 9mm of washers stacked up under the ears to get the driveline angle right. The trans is at .2* up and the diff is at .2* down in the car which is very nice.
(http://i.imgur.com/InuR6UO.jpg)
Just a little squish.
(http://i.imgur.com/a0zNS5F.jpg)
Nooice.
(http://i.imgur.com/BrrSLIN.jpg)
A kind of big expense and unplanned when I started was a pair of Kooks "Green" cats. They claim they're 90% effective in not setting check engine lights in late model applications. Stainless steel core with 300 cell count and packed full of the good stuff to make them actually work effectively. Everyone bitches that my car is too loud, but I didn't want the weight and tear up of cramming two more mufflers in it somewhere. It also has been kinda stanky since the old cats came out. They were $600 for the pair...sure hope they do their job. It is the last major job for getting the car back together.
Oh...and a pinion snubber cross brace thing to go over the nose of the diff.
(http://i.imgur.com/cggAFQZ.jpg)
And I was secretly happy to see that I have next to no clearance to the old gutted cats with the new trans in place...I guess I had to do something right?
(http://i.imgur.com/328km8B.jpg)
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Nice work. It will be much easier to service the diff with the Exploder cover.. the Cobra cover is stupid.
That thing is gonna be mean with the T2R and 3.73s
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Thanks! I'm looking forward to being able to actually power out of corners hopefully. The RE71R's are already worse for traction than I remember them being when new and they only have about 2k miles and one autox day on them...can't believe sitting in a garage for 9 months really aged them much...Can't wait to get Toyo's back on this thing.
In other news the radiator is still seeping a little bit which really made me want to break things. I'm thinking a custom radiator is in my future at some point...but not for quite some time. I need to recover from this mess first. Something with an integrated oil cooler and better cooling potential would be nice. I have something in mind for an air induction but don't know if I can fit a large enough filter not to choke the engine. Washing an air filter every time I changed my oil wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Thanks! I'm looking forward to being able to actually power out of corners hopefully. The RE71R's are already worse for traction than I remember them being when new and they only have about 2k miles and one autox day on them...can't believe sitting in a garage for 9 months really aged them much...Can't wait to get Toyo's back on this thing.
In other news the radiator is still seeping a little bit which really made me want to break things. I'm thinking a custom radiator is in my future at some point...but not for quite some time. I need to recover from this mess first. Something with an integrated oil cooler and better cooling potential would be nice. I have something in mind for an air induction but don't know if I can fit a large enough filter not to choke the engine. Washing an air filter every time I changed my oil wouldn't be the end of the world.
Yea only put 100 treadwear tires on that thing. A couple aggressive heat cycles make those 180-200 treadwear tires much less sticky. I like the upgraded radiator idea.
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Man o man do I love white FD's!
Great progress..... hope you have it potentially running this month!
On the street those poly diff bushings should be fine..... on the track mine literally melted after a day of road racing. I had the stock TracLok LSD in my Cobra rear and a single 3.5" exhaut passing by pretty close to the diff mounts. Solution for me was the Maximum Motorsports aluminum solid rear diff bushings.
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Man o man do I love white FD's!
Great progress..... hope you have it potentially running this month!
On the street those poly diff bushings should be fine..... on the track mine literally melted after a day of road racing. I had the stock TracLok LSD in my Cobra rear and a single 3.5" exhaut passing by pretty close to the diff mounts. Solution for me was the Maximum Motorsports aluminum solid rear diff bushings.
+eleventy million on all counts.
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updates?
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updates?
A little late, but I have updates! Lol. Thanks to Kinger for finally getting me to put some words down about what I've been doing with this thing over the past couple years. We've had some similar experiences, and similar attitude toward what the car SHOULD be based on time, money and effort invested. These cars fight you every step of the way if you actually care about refinement. It is easy to build a fast polished turd, but if that's all I was doing I wouldn't have sunk this much money into it.
I went through a string of really bad luck with this car. I can say now that the car is better than ever, but it has been a long, long road to get here.
First off...things went wrong with the 8.8. About 4 years back I was away for an entire year for work and pretty much saved up with grand plans to do a T56 magnum, 8.8, twin disk clutch and maybe a couple other things all at once.
Pretty much everything turned into a shit show and fought me along the way. Nothing unexpected with a project car, but the thought was after dumping $6k into the car it'd be a little more "refined". For the money spent on top of the line parts, it shouldn't drive and act like a shitbox. It especially hurt since the whole motivation behind these mods was to make it more refined and a better street car. Before I did all this the car was the fastest and more fun to drive because the drivetrain atleast was without issues...it was just catless, had 4.10's and GTO gears screaming on the highway, had a mazda diff that might explode someday, had a heavy single disk clutch etc.
A summary of things I can remember - The driveshaft was built at the wrong length and needed to be remade on my dime, the magnum (brand new) pops out of reverse, the shifter leaks like a sieve and the whole underside is HEAVILY lubricated, the twin disk has an awful rattle at 1800 rpm, the 8.8 had gnarly gear whine and I rebuilt it with new gears only for it to still have whine...my custom dual exhaust didn't fit under the 8.8...once I got the car driving the car STILL had vibrations at highway speed...oh and I tried more of a street tire with the RE71R's only to find that they were just as bad as an R-Comp lol. Last but not least, the car had far worse wheel hop than with the old mazda diff (which I actually really liked, but wasn't a fan of how much NVH it transmitted with a fairly rigid mounting strategy).
So pretty much a major letdown both on refinement and performance. It is probably my least happy time period of owning the car, and the most money I had spent on it since completion.
Since that round of mods I kept rubbing on it to try and improve things and eventually had a pretty massive failure where the Samberg 8.8 mount completely failed and the driveshaft contacted the floor and destroyed my driveshaft, and basically broke the mounting points on the floor for the Samberg crossmember. That was another painful time...
So, lucky for me I live about 5 miles away from Ronin HQ and went and picked up their 8.8 mounting kit and after numerous months of downtime and a lot more expense I was back on the road. I had to buy another 8.8 (explorer vs cobra), and buy ANOTHER driveshaft because mine hit the floor and gouged it up. Come to find out - the dual exhaust again did NOT fit and needed to be rerouted around the larger Explorer diff lol.
When I finally got the car back on the road, I still had a lot of vibration at highway speed, a shocking amount of wheel hop, and the goddamn gears still whine (still bitter about this one lol I'm 0/3). Setting up a rear end is not rocket science but there's something about an aluminum case 8.8 that we just can't get right. The pattern looks good going in, and then coming out the actual wear pattern is different way off. I don't know if the aluminum cases move or what happens...but this is really just me complaining now. I'll get it someday when I want to put a 4th set of gears in...
So - long story still long - I am happier than ever with the car, and this is far and away the best it has ever been. I've put about 22,000 miles on the car since I originally built it. With these latest mods and after many years I've finally had the confidence to drive the car like it is capable of being driven. I've always driven it hard and was happy to powerslide it around slow speed, but it has always been nervous at higher speeds and I never really wanted to be on power while changing lanes in a straight line let alone powering through corners. I always had a sense of the car feeling like an arrow with no feathers.
I can now be full throttle 2nd gear through corners and that is an absolutely mind melting experience. I would put this thing up against any street car on the road right now, and if I lose a race at least I know I'll be having the most fun.
So, what has gotten me here -
- Highway Vibration - This has plagued me for the entire existence of my car including day 1 up until very recently. I think I have had 5 or more driveshaft iterations in the car. To only talk about the latest experience, the new driveshaft I had built after it hit the shop again did a shit job of balancing the shaft and it shook like a mofo. After taking it out again and threatening their life they returned it properly balanced, but still had a little shake to it. After clocking it a couple times I found the "happy spot" for it in the car and finally it is smooth up to 120mph coasting. Another experiment I did was that I hung a plumb bob from the axles and the driveshaft and used a T-square to find the horizontal alignment of the driveshaft in the car. The transmission was not on center with the differential and I found a noticeable improvement by moving the tail of the transmission over about 1/2" or more. Lastly, I had my latest set of tires road force balanced as I've always had to have my tires balanced multiple times to get them smooth. Road force nailed it on the first go.
- Wheel Hop - My buddy had a C6ZR1 for a while and he actually was crazy enough to pay about $4k to have all the suspension bushings replaced which spherical bearings. That car had horrible wheel hop, and then when it came back it was night and day difference. Within a couple days of that joy ride I contacted J-Auto and got his "battle version" lower control arm, toe link and trailing arm. Wheel hop has been reduced by about 80% over stock arms with Poly bushings. The remainder of the wheel hop I think could be fixed with solid bushings in the diff, but I'm not interested in going that route.
- LSD - Far out man.... I had a Torsen T2R in my car with the cobra 8.8. Previous to that I had the S4 T2 clutch type LSD. With the stock diff I absolutely loved the car and found it to be one of the most predictable and progressive cars I've ever driven. With the Torsen diff (which is most recommended and most popular for the 8.8) I found it to be very unpredictable in transitioning in and out of slides, and when spinning tires in a straight line did a lot of tail wagging back and forth. I could ramble more about the nature of how a Torsen diff works and while I understand their benefit on the track, I find a clutch pack diff is stupid simple to drive and my preference. I put a cobra clutch type LSD back in the car with the carbon clutches and I hope it lives for a while. The feel and predictability is back and I'm in love.
Side note and something that most people don't realize, the Cobra Clunk is almost guaranteed to be in the Torsen style differentials. Tolerance stackup on multiple gear interfaces causes a lot of delay between driveshaft rotation and axle rotation. My clunking is gone after installing a clutch pack diff. - Tires - I put a full slick on the car. This one was a pretty huge gamble, but it was transformative. It is still a DOT-R tire, but the Maxxis RC-1 has literally zero tread pattern except one groove. They're silent, perfectly round, balanced with minimal weight, and grip like a mother fucker. I have had experience with RE71-R tires and R888's. Of those two, I liked the R888. Considering the Maxxis...it is the best driving experience I've ever had. I think overall performance of all three would likely be similar, but the Maxxis surprisingly makes the best street tire (but I've had to Uber to work the couple times it rained in Cali).
- Bump Steer - So just like everything else I've had to re-engineer or replace from Samberg, the bumpsteer correction is insufficient in his kit. I had about 3/8" toe out across the range of travel of the suspension. Who gives a flying fuck where your alignment is if the wheel it going to move by 1/8" or more when you hit the gas. For fucks sake. Anyways, I borrowed Mattster's Longacre bumpsteer kit and took some real measurements. I have only 17" wheels so I have extremely minimal room to the wheel barrel, but was able to spend some quality time with a grinder and profile some things and space the tie rod further down by about 1/8". I still have toe out through the wheel motion, but it is about 1/3 what it used to be. I can let go of the steering wheel and go full throttle and the car never strays from center. It is absolutely amazing, and so much more confidence inspiring.
- Seat - I took a gamble and bought a Tillett B5 carbon Lotus seat from a guy who was too fat to fit in it. I didn't know of anyone at the time who had put a Tillett in the FD, but I saw pictures of them in other tiny cars. I absolutely love this thing. I always griped that my stock seat sat me too high. Now I'm basically on the ground, and it fits me like a less aggressive karting seat. I love it!!
So what does the car still need? Well, performance has never been better...but it can't really do it for a long time.
1. Brakes - if pushed hard I bet I could catch my stock brakes on fire. The speeds you can gain in such a short time are just dumb. I need a brake system I can confidently stop for a 20 minute session without requiring race pads. I don't mind fast pad wear, and there are street friendly high temp pads, but the rotors are physically just too small.
2. My 17" wheels severely limit brake size. I can cram a tiny BBK under the 17" Enkeis, but the final form of this car will likely have 18's both for aesthetics and performance
3. Cooling - this is a major one...I have no oil cooler right now, and the Samberg cooling system does not provide enough cooling capacity for the car. In my opinion, that is both cooling power, and water capacity. Also, when the car heat soaks it does not have a large enough reservoir to capture the water and it pushes it out the tank onto the ground.
4. Heat Soak - This is a big ass engine in a tiny space. I need a vented hood. I want to scoot style hood with the front vent sealed off. Baby viper doo doo dooo do do.
5. Oil Pressure - So with driving the car full time on slicks...both cornering and accelerating in a straight line I've seen dips in oil pressure. I'm not really sure how I've kept from spinning a bearing as I think this happens much more often than I realize. The car needs a larger oil reservoir, and a more reliable pickup. I have the improved racing baffle right now and it just isn't enough.
6. Fuel pressure - I've gone through a number of fuel pump pickups and still even with a hydramat have fuel starvation issues. Putting the full slick on the car didn't help. I went to install a Hyperion baffle the other day and noticed fuel seeping up past my wiring harness. I think it is time to breakdown and order an in-tank surge tank before I actually break something.
7. Not urgent, but it needs reverse fixed. I'm tempted to faceplate the trans. I'm an idiot. I also want to fix my leaking shifter.
What does it not need? More power.
What am I doing? Yeah...building an engine. I started about 1.5 years ago collecting LS7 parts and am slowly working toward completing it.
It will be an 8000 rpm solid roller cam dry sumped 428" LS7 that will require re-engineering the entire cooling system and will add 150+ horsepower over my current stroker. I have almost all the hard parts I need minus an EFI and a dry sump. What I need more than anything is time to work on it.
Motivation is to take the car as it sits to Texas Mile and run 200 mph. It has been a bucket list item for the last 10 years and was a huge inspiration when I was building the car. Mark (GNX7) took his with his buddies and ran 194 and 196 mph. I don't know if I'll crack 200 in street trim, but it'll get close.
(https://i.imgur.com/TkLYVXW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SKQPkir.jpg)
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If you properly duct the radiator/hood, you may find that the cooling issues aren't as bad as you think!
Good call on the dry sump. My accusump setup saved my old bottom end, but was still marginal at best without even pushing the car hard (I had no brakes, company that engineered them made a bad call on master size, whoops). I went Peterson - Pat Haberkorn is a really good guy to work with, sent me drawings as I needed them, etc.
Curious as to where the hydramat was failing, as I'm about to put one in my cell. Do you think that the hydramat was becoming uncovered due to tank shape/configuration?
If you like the RC1's, you may want to give NT01's a try. Very similar, but I found the NT01's to be the more consistent tire over its lifespan. The Maxxis for me would give crazy grip on the sticker laps, but then drop off to about 80% or so after a few cycles. I think NT01's get better until they cord.
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If you properly duct the radiator/hood, you may find that the cooling issues aren't as bad as you think!
Good call on the dry sump. My accusump setup saved my old bottom end, but was still marginal at best without even pushing the car hard (I had no brakes, company that engineered them made a bad call on master size, whoops). I went Peterson - Pat Haberkorn is a really good guy to work with, sent me drawings as I needed them, etc.
Curious as to where the hydramat was failing, as I'm about to put one in my cell. Do you think that the hydramat was becoming uncovered due to tank shape/configuration?
If you like the RC1's, you may want to give NT01's a try. Very similar, but I found the NT01's to be the more consistent tire over its lifespan. The Maxxis for me would give crazy grip on the sticker laps, but then drop off to about 80% or so after a few cycles. I think NT01's get better until they cord.
So, I crammed a hydramat into the stock tank...bucket and everything. As I was ramming the comically large pickup through a tiny access hole in the tank I laughed to myself and thought "this will never work." In a fuel cell I bet it works wonderfully. With a better installation effort in the stock tank it would probably work as well. I'm tired of dealing with the issue, and with a 13+:1 compression engine that I can't afford to break coming up I need reliable fueling. My issue is really more straight line acceleration than turns. A sudden 1st or 2nd gear rip will send the fuel in the tank flying away from the pickup.
I've had R888's which I know are very similar to the Nittos. Always considered NT01, but the RC1 are such a phenomenal street tire I don't think I'll ever switch away from them unless I need some tread on the tires. They're dead silent, smooth, balanced well, and have good grip. On the track there are likely better options, but I really just use this thing 99% of the time to hammer around on the street and occasional canyon runs.
Ducting the rad...the Samberg setup is about as well ducted as you can hope for I believe, unless I am completely missing something. I think my primary issue is lacking an oil cooler, and with heatsoak the unvented hood. I do think the overflow and expansion tank need to be larger. If I kept the oil at a lower temperature the whole engine would run cooler. We'll see..I need to stand the radiator up in the front like the turbo guys do to fit a drysump tank, so I'm redoing it anyway.
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Awesome update.
A few comments -
You live down in OC now?
How much oil are you running? I run 1 quart extra and have not had an oil pressure variation that I have noticed ever. My accusump has never activated on the track. I find that a little odd myself, but I will take it.
R888s suck on the street compared to NT01s and the RC1. RC1s have slightly better street manners than the NT01, but if you need tread, the tradeoff is worth it. I've got caught on the freeway in a downpour twice with my RC1s.. that was not fun.
Also RC1s hate being slid or spun. NT01s love it.
I am at a similar point with cooling, I think I have plenty of cooling capacity, but I need to improve the air management and vent the hood.
What brake pads are you running now? Yea, you need more rotor mass. I'm going to go to a new front caliper at some point because I'm starting to flex the OE calipers, you probably are too, but to a lesser degree.
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Yeah! I've lived in Irvine for the past couple years, and just bought a condo in Orange just a little West on Chapman from Jamboree. We have a 2 car garage and a 2 car driveway now! It will be a godsend when everything is setup. It is a straight shot for me to head up into Santiago now :) Living ~1 hour without traffic from my dad's garage has put a damper on working on the cars a bit which made all the failures even that much more frustrating, but it is a lot nicer than Fontucky area. Just expensive as hell. Next move for me may very well be to the Carolinas where I can put up a barn and own a brand new house on an acre for 2/3 what I paid for a condo. I dream of having a chassis dyno in my backyard to start dicking around with, and a nice little clean room to build engines. It is like heaven out there for drag racing too.
Oil I keep right around full on the dipstick. I notice a lot more oil consumption when overfilled, and my concern is I don't really know where it is going. I don't want to be ingesting oil. I recently vented my PCV and my oil control got a LOT better. I just stuck a filter vent in the oil fill cap for now I'm not even running a catch can. I've only puked oil that one canyon drive I did where oil got SUPER hot, and I was overfilled. Next time I'll wrap a rag with a zip tie and see how it does.
I do put at least a half quart to 1 quart extra when I know I'm really going to hammer on it. I just dump whatever partial open bottle of oil I keep in the bins for top ups so the amount varies. I used to have stable oil pressure down until 1 quart low, but with the slicks I've seen flutters both turning and in a straight line with as little as 2/3 low. This thing really boogies on the street now. The real reason for the dry sump is the LS7 build and the RPM I want to turn, which to sum up in a couple words is just pure ignorance.
I definitely had to Uber to work a couple times this year when I only had my RX7 to drive lol...it rained fairly often at the start of the year.
Brake pads I'm actually having great luck with EBC Yellows other than I went through the fronts in 3000 miles. They don't squeal, they work from cold, and I've thrashed them very hard on Angeles Crest and I lived to talk about it. There's just not enough pad area to get sufficient service life, and the rotors are too small. Unfortunate law of physics is that velocity is far more impactful than mass when it comes to stopping vehicles. The light weight helps, but the speed is what gets you.
I did pick up a set of 4 piston Cayman S calipers for a steal from a Porsche dismantler. I'm going to try and put together a budget kit at some point...if I use a production CX9 rotor I'll have less than $1000 into them including 12k mile calipers. The calipers are way bigger than I expected though and I think I'll still have clearance issues with my RPF1's. I still have some of my old Stoptech excel spreadsheets used to science out piston sizes and such, and they're actually a surprisingly good match for the car with the 949 master cylinder for fluid volume, and brake bias will be close enough to keep using the factory prop valve if I move the rear caliper out a bit.
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Great updates and a lot of good useful info! I still don’t understand why you didn’t buy the brake kit you put together, stopping with ease is so satisfying. And your right, you would think Samberg would of spent more time in nailing down one of the most important items of the swap, the bump steer issue.
I really hope your wrong about the eaton true trac, just finished my diff swap and I didn’t get a chance to drive it much to notice an issue.
Btw, you’ll love a drysump as the 8-10 litres of oil will help with cooling and you’ll need it with all the grip and power your planning. I really appreciate your honest updates, it helps us all to improve these awesome cars!
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Drop me a line sometime if you want to do a canyon cruise :) I am not too far south on the 5.
You pretty much need to run an extra 1/2 to full quart in a wet sump LSX to keep from starving them at the pan in a road race scenario.. It is pretty much the lesser of all other evils. Now that I am fully vented with no PCV, I consume a slight amount of oil, and I know its not going through the intake like it was before.
The only way to drive these cars is with 100 treadwear or less tires :) I have some 200 treadwear Hankooks I use for storage and putting around.
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Great updates and a lot of good useful info! I still don’t understand why you didn’t buy the brake kit you put together, stopping with ease is so satisfying. And your right, you would think Samberg would of spent more time in nailing down one of the most important items of the swap, the bump steer issue.
I really hope your wrong about the eaton true trac, just finished my diff swap and I didn’t get a chance to drive it much to notice an issue.
Btw, you’ll love a drysump as the 8-10 litres of oil will help with cooling and you’ll need it with all the grip and power your planning. I really appreciate your honest updates, it helps us all to improve these awesome cars!
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My Truetrac has been completely smooth. They function similar to a Torsen T2R, but the T2R has an even high torque bias ratio because it has preload in it.
That was probably the notchiness he felt in his T2R. Sometimes you can feel these torsen diffs transferring torque from one side to the other if you are on inconsistent pavement, or if one tire is in the wet and the other is in the dry. That "wagging" gets worse the more torque bias ratio you have in the diff.
That is why I've always recommended the Truetrac to the people here. It will feel very similar to the original FD torsen diff and operate quietly and smoothly. It is not quite as aggressive as a T2R, but is stronger and has a better price point.
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Great updates and a lot of good useful info! I still don’t understand why you didn’t buy the brake kit you put together, stopping with ease is so satisfying. And your right, you would think Samberg would of spent more time in nailing down one of the most important items of the swap, the bump steer issue.
I really hope your wrong about the eaton true trac, just finished my diff swap and I didn’t get a chance to drive it much to notice an issue.
Btw, you’ll love a drysump as the 8-10 litres of oil will help with cooling and you’ll need it with all the grip and power your planning. I really appreciate your honest updates, it helps us all to improve these awesome cars!
Thanks man! It is hard to explain why building a swapped car is harder than just bolting the engine in. Until you've gone through it I don't think you get it. Every single major system on the vehicle has been highly modified and has next to no R&D behind it. Things can and will go wrong.
I really wish I had bought one of those StopTech kits while I had the chance, but they don't fit behind a 17" RPF1. I had a trophy kit on my C5Z so I know what I'm missing...they're phenomenal brakes. I honestly would've been fine without a parking brake too. I'm so hesitant to change to 18" wheels and tires since my RPF1's have been so good to me, tires are super cheap, and the wheel/tire combo is unbelievably lighter per corner than an 18" setup. That pushes me toward wanting mega baller forged 18" wheels that're still heavier than what I have, and are hard to get excited about financially.
About the diff, like LOF said the Eaton is probably better than the T2R was for driveability, plus my T2R preload clutches were worn out which...who knows how that impacts the behavior of the diff.
There are far too many good reviews of the Eaton diffs for them to be a problem. Immediately though after switching to the clutch diff the intuitive driving came back, it drives straight in wheelspin, and I can hoon the thing anywhere I want as aggressively as I want. The time I spent with the Torsen was the only times ever I found myself somewhat out of control hooning the car because of how it over grips and then snaps loose once the bias ratio is reached. By the time the tires break loose you have way too much power applied. The solution is to just be harder on the throttle to avoid that grey zone of having traction, but I prefer to progressively roll into wheelspin rather than punch it and back off. The T2R has a super high bias ratio which exaggerates this behavior vs the Eaton which is probably less than half the bias ratio of the racing diff. I have just found that I have a strong preference toward a clutch pack style. I grew up racing Karts so I'm used to driving with my right foot.
Buying a super cheap used T2R was probably just a dumb experiment all around. So far I'm very happy with the cobra carbon clutch pack diff, but I haven't put enough miles on it to burn it up yet so I'm not sure how long the honeymoon phase will last. If I do wear out the clutch pack I'll either just throw in another new one for $200 off Amazon.
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Drop me a line sometime if you want to do a canyon cruise :) I am not too far south on the 5.
You pretty much need to run an extra 1/2 to full quart in a wet sump LSX to keep from starving them at the pan in a road race scenario.. It is pretty much the lesser of all other evils. Now that I am fully vented with no PCV, I consume a slight amount of oil, and I know its not going through the intake like it was before.
The only way to drive these cars is with 100 treadwear or less tires :) I have some 200 treadwear Hankooks I use for storage and putting around.
Yeah I'd like to! I have it parked at my parents for now while I get done with the move. This will be the first time in 2 years I'll have access to both my daily and my FD...I've had to make the commitment to drive it sometimes 4+ weeks at a time if I want my FD in Irvine (which I've done a lot of haha). So stoked to be able to keep it at my own place in a garage and take it out whenever I feel like it.
Now that I know about it, I'd really like to get the fuel leaks fixed in the trunk too..but I'm still trying to decide how to tackle it. I'd feel really dumb if something happened and I knew about the leak. Maybe I'll try to just band-aid it until I take the car apart. No joke my pass-through for the wiring is insulated with JB weld...I could just gum it up with more putty and it'd probably last another 4 years.
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Don’t be lazy! Fix the leak. No matter how complete we think we have these cars, they are always a work in progress. We are building a very fast car on a budget. Lucky that we have this forum with enough knowledgeable people to bounce ideas off of! Best forum out there, I haven’t been contributing much lately but always here to help if someone needs.
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Gum it up and run it :)
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Great update! Its about time you got on the keyboard LOL.
I thought halfspecs car was perfect, and still amazes me how much refining a old car costs. My list never shrinks LOL. I must have a bumpsteer issue on mine to as to why it feels twitchy. Added to the 'list' :rolleyes:
The 428 build sounds awesome! I have been fantasizing about ITBs but it appears to be a solid uphill battle and may take the car in the opposite direction of 'refined' from my 'ferrari like' fantasy to more of a finicky race car. I'm having to reel in my plans for the car and focusing on driving it more!
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Great update and great to see you keeping up refining the car! A few notes, lots have been discussed already but just to add my $.02.
1 - Cooling System - I added a little extra ducting to direct the majority of air through the samberg setup and saw minimal difference. Halfway down the page here - https://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19354.60
My opinion is that the samberg radiator core is subpar. I think it is cheap and isn't up to the job to cool a large cube V8. Even wit everything ducted, this doesn't cool anywhere near as good as my previous HOWE radiator.
2- I too overfill mine by about a quart for track days. I do see increased usage but nothing to be supper worried about. I have yet to trigger my accusump or see any drops on pressure. I should note that I am not running slicks...
3 - I love my Truetrac and have absolutely no complaints. It acts just as the stock dif and gives me the utmost confidence in power-slides. My car is unbelievably predictable and confident inspiring with the ass hung out. So much so that it will probably get me in trouble one of these days.
Very interested in seeing your brake setup and am curious to see how the RX-9 rotors handle track use!
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Great update! Its about time you got on the keyboard LOL.
I thought halfspecs car was perfect, and still amazes me how much refining a old car costs. My list never shrinks LOL. I must have a bumpsteer issue on mine to as to why it feels twitchy. Added to the 'list' :rolleyes:
The 428 build sounds awesome! I have been fantasizing about ITBs but it appears to be a solid uphill battle and may take the car in the opposite direction of 'refined' from my 'ferrari like' fantasy to more of a finicky race car. I'm having to reel in my plans for the car and focusing on driving it more!
I sit around and dream up engine ideas, many related to the intake, and then I pop the hood and get a quick reminder of just how premium the real-estate is under that hood line. The issue really is even if you got the nerve to hack up a hood and run something above the hood line it looks super goofy because of how far forward the engine protrudes, or rather how short the nose of the car is. There's like a whole 2 feet missing off the front of the car compared to a vette. I've yet to see someone really nail a cowl or bubble hood either. The tightest clearance is basically at the same point as the headlights which is right where the bumper starts...doesn't help that all the body lines are so rounded there's no natural area to "bump" up.
I think there's a way to do an ITB setup but it wouldn't be optimal for performance unless you're spinning 8000+ rpm...I still have my thoughts on how to do it though...
My issue is I can't find throttle bodies off the shelf that are big enough. An LS7 intake valve is 2.200" diameter...I don't want a throttle body with a tighter choke than my intake valve. The biggest OTS kit I can find is 55mm (2.165"), but the intake manifold design wouldn't work for these cars. Really need like 63-65mm (~2.5") throttle bodies for an optimal setup imo. That steers toward someone like Kinsler that will build you whatever you want, but is going to be mega expensive even if you just buy the 8 throttle bodies from them and build everything else custom.
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Pantera EFI makes a 2.5” kit fir about $3700 but its for cathedral port heads. He make a square port.
52mm have made 700hp on a engine dyno on a 402. Not sure how much power you are planning on. With a fast 102 as the max under hood option feels like we are limited to around 650hp before it lops off air flow.
My idea on the ITBs was a harrop set up and cut two “rectangles” in the hood to show the recessed horns and make a clear plexi plate that had holes/slots in it to keep out major debris. The front horn i think would stick above the hood line about 1/2” though. Its soooo close to fitting. Here is the set up in a fbody.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191123/032ce6bfa8e09047e52b63d24faddcdf.jpg)
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I've been to Pantera's shop in person it is literally 2 miles from where I work. He does have LS7 ITB setup...well designed, but very long runners. Not something we'd be able to package easily.
We actually have very good cowl clearance compared to Fbodies and Vettes. It is the front of the hood that gets so low and short for us.
I would want something in a similar footprint as the Holley Sniper with a common plenum and a front feed inlet so you can run an actual air filter. The other thought is some kind of non-hideous cowl hood with some kind of air filter and a hood seal. I would never run my car without air filters like so many people do.
The only way I could justify an ITB setup would be to buy the throttle bodies on the cheap and try to make the manifold myself. I can't see spending super charger money on an ITB setup.
It isn't so much the peak power that they've made, but the dynamics of the intake tract. The ones I've seen on LS7's have had very odd double hump torque curves and don't seem to make as much power up top as they should. You can make 700hp through a FAST also, but it is definitely not optimal.
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I’m all about trying different things but why go through all the trouble for the itb’s. Not worth all the work involved, especially when it’s possible to make 650rwhp Na without them. Just my opinion.
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I’m all about trying different things but why go through all the trouble for the itb’s. Not worth all the work involved, especially when it’s possible to make 650rwhp Na without them. Just my opinion.
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I wanted the WOT sound and idle quality. Oh the extra 60+hp over a plastic intake wasn't bad either. Also liked the tuning aspect of changing runner length to find what feels best.
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Gum it up and run it :)
So that's what I did and it is working great lol. Some fuel tank repair epoxy and it is back on the road.
I must say every time I open the garage at my new condo and I see the FD sitting there I get a little fluttery in the chest. It is a beautiful sight both literally and figuratively. It is nice to have the flexibility to take it out whenever I want vs having to commit to driving it as my only car for extended periods of time.
(https://i.imgur.com/tyhfl2n.png)
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So some cool shit happened on Christmas. We had all the family over as usual, and we put the Uncles and cousins to work to help my dad and I lift the body off my Grandpa's Fiat Altered drag car. This is the original family race car, and we're working on getting the safety certs up to date so we can run it again. It was in the NHRA museum for over a decade and we got it back out a couple years ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZAnM2wB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BZtShFR.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yp3akI0.png)
Buncha old fogeys lol. I asked my dad almost 10 years ago now to get the thing out of the museum so I could win a race with "Pops" on the starting line. Grandma wasn't big on the idea...but when there was risk of losing ownership in the car due to changing museum ownership we took it out. CAN'T STOP US NOWWWWWW
We also got a puppy. This is Minnie Mac. She's cute as shit, but man puppies are terrible.
(https://i.imgur.com/cBFXYrq.jpg)
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Gum it up and run it :)
So that's what I did and it is working great lol. Some fuel tank repair epoxy and it is back on the road.
I must say every time I open the garage at my new condo and I see the FD sitting there I get a little fluttery in the chest. It is a beautiful sight both literally and figuratively. It is nice to have the flexibility to take it out whenever I want vs having to commit to driving it as my only car for extended periods of time.
(https://i.imgur.com/tyhfl2n.png)
Get that washer and dryer out of you garage. There is no room for that! Car looks great BTW.
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Gum it up and run it :)
So that's what I did and it is working great lol. Some fuel tank repair epoxy and it is back on the road.
I must say every time I open the garage at my new condo and I see the FD sitting there I get a little fluttery in the chest. It is a beautiful sight both literally and figuratively. It is nice to have the flexibility to take it out whenever I want vs having to commit to driving it as my only car for extended periods of time.
(https://i.imgur.com/tyhfl2n.png)
That worked for mine too! Love the car only thing better then my black FD is your white one! Sick!! Happy New Year!
Looking forward to a detailed write up of your ls7 build! Not that I want to copy it or anything [emoji6]
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That Fiat is one NICE vintage altered.
Should be loads of fun, and quick, at vintage drag meets.
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+1 That altered looks like fun. Probably scary as crap to drive, but fun!
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Glad you guys dig the Fiat! It has an old best of 8.60 at about 151mph. The intake runners and exhaust primaries have always been way too long, and the mechanical fuel injection has never been leaned out. It would lay over on the top end and try to flip over on the starting line.
My dad thinks he can get it to about an 8.30 pass as it sits, which is just a crate LS7 454 big block with the mechanical fuel injection on top running on alcohol.
The plan is to build a blown LS motor for it and run the vintage 7.60 index class with it where altereds and slingshots run no electronics, limited engine tech etc off a pro tree and a breakout at 7.60.
Center steer and no front brakes will make it quite the ride. It does have a significant level of sketch about it. I think the wheelbase is only 96" lol.
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Gum it up and run it :)
So that's what I did and it is working great lol. Some fuel tank repair epoxy and it is back on the road.
I must say every time I open the garage at my new condo and I see the FD sitting there I get a little fluttery in the chest. It is a beautiful sight both literally and figuratively. It is nice to have the flexibility to take it out whenever I want vs having to commit to driving it as my only car for extended periods of time.
That worked for mine too! Love the car only thing better then my black FD is your white one! Sick!! Happy New Year!
Looking forward to a detailed write up of your ls7 build! Not that I want to copy it or anything [emoji6]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Happy New Year man!
...is it time to start posting engine details?? :yay:
May of 2018 I purchased a low mile LS7 shortblock. The previous owner of it was going to build a track car out of this C6, but came across a built 440 short block for a steal and so he didn't need it.
The thing was crated up and freighted to my dad's work in Riverside. Literally all I wanted was crank, rods, and the block. I wound up also with pistons, timing set, oil pump drive, lifters and balancer all which just got pitched.
What I liked about this short block is that a legitimate racer and car builder was going to use it for his own race car, and it had also never been disassembled. Yes, sometimes it is nice to see what is inside...but it is also nice to know that it hasn't been f'ed with and have a backstory.
After I unpacked it this is what I was looking at. Description was pretty much on point. A couple cylinders had some marks that needed to be honed out, but I wanted to put forged pistons in it anyway so no harm no foul.
(https://i.imgur.com/rv4Ob44.jpg)
I've been around some really neat engine builds before, but as far as LS engines go the LS7 has always been a dream. This engine build in itself is kind of like its own project. I get a little giddy working on this thing. I was hyped as a mofo when the LS7 came out originally.
Getting the engine built will be done first. This is something that I expect *maybe* to eventually install into the car - I do have a plan for that - but I also fully expect to take back out and put it in something more racey like the Fiat, maybe a 67 Nova street car with a lot of chassis work done to it, or a drag car I buy/build for myself one day. It is going to be extremely rowdy. This is a race engine that might go into a street car. No illusions of it being anything else.
I fully expect to drive it one block in California and get arrested.
Good news is whatever is done to the FD to make the LS7 work will just make the car better in the long run. List of big ticket items - new front end package including air intake, vented hood, radiator, oil cooler, and oiling system (dry sump for sure). New dual 3" stainless exhaust. It is getting driveshaft shop pro level axles. It's getting a RPS carbon clutch. I'll fix the trans reverse issue, and leaking shifter. It is getting a Holley standalone ECU (huge deal). I'll fix the fuel slosh issue. I might give the brakes an overhaul and put 18's on it but as usual that is at the bottom of the list.
This will either be the eventual swan song final form for the car before I finally move on in life, or it'll be a hell of a foundation for the next decade of ownership. So far I really have no desire to get rid of this thing.
I set out on this idiotic journey so that I can go 200 mph in one standing mile, and I am pretty sure that maybe it will definitely happen.
My other goal that I want to work toward is to be able to reliably and purposefully use the performance of the vehicle for indefinite periods of time. I want it to feel robust and capable, not like a glass cannon. It is pretty good right now with a major weakness in thermal management - brakes and engine. To that point, I want it to feel engineered and purposeful like an OEM supercar and not cobbled and built in a garage. With the absurd power of the LS7 I'm not sure if that is truly possible in a streetable vehicle, but with whatever engine winds up in it the chassis should be ready for a nice ~500-600 horsepower powerplant.
Engine porn and progress pics coming next :)
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The engine is going to be a stock crank and rods LS7 with forged pistons, ported heads, and a huge solid roller camshaft. Everything in the list below I actually have and am working on putting together. Things I don't yet have are the Holley system and the dry sump, but I'll get there.
429" LS7 build
LS7 Block honed to 4.130"
LS7 crank polished and checked
Factory Ti rods in good condition and ARP bolts
Mahle PowerPak flat top pistons with 1/1/2 mm ring pack
BES 285cc ported LS7 heads, new factory Ti valves and Ferrea stainless exhaust
Comp Cams 258/272 .775/.756" lift 113 LSA +3* advance
Isky Red Zone bushed solid lifters
T&D steel pedestal mount adjustable roller tip 1.8 rockers
PAC 1238x solid roller valve spring kit
Holley Sniper low profile intake w/ Holley 105 throttle body
IGN-1A smart coils
Meziere electric water pump
Spoolin' 1 7/8" merge collector headers
Siemens Deka 60 lb/hr injectors
I plan on trying to run as close to 13.5:1 compression as possible. If I don't change anything from where I'm at, it'd be 12:1. I need to check my piston to valve clearance to know how much more I can cut off the heads.
At 13.5:1 through the Holley I expect to make somewhere around 760 actual horsepower, and am hoping to peak at about 7400, and run it out to 7800-8000 rpm.
7800 rpm in 5th gear is the magic 200 mph number.
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That's one hell of a camshaft, sir.
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That's one hell of a camshaft, sir.
Yes it is!
Billy Godbold from Comp was kind enough to spend some time helping me spec it. These are new low shock solid roller lobes he’s developed and very passionate about. Nice to feel I’m getting the latest and greatest from one of the best of all time.
It takes a lot of duration to make a 4” stroke engine get to 8000 rpm!
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I like where your headed with this! Educate me, why solid roller? better for higher rpms? Couldn’t a good hydraulic roller work for this application?
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I like where your headed with this! Educate me, why solid roller? better for higher rpms? Couldn’t a good hydraulic roller work for this application?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So I’d say yes and no. Hydraulics can do great things, but solid rollers are just the ultimate uncompromising performance. I’ve run our hydraulic motors up to 7700 rpm.
Modern solid roller lobes are much nicer on parts these days and are plenty reasonable to run on the street. The main drawback now is just cost vs reliability/maintenance. This’ll be my first in an LS motor. It should be quite snappy lol.
There’s significant power gains, responsiveness and better valve control with the solid roller.
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This sounds like it will be a great build!
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Holy hell that is a cam!! Racecah! Love it! 5000+ RPM in that thing will be stupid, absurd, craziness! Did I say I love it yet?
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You got it! The goal is to make 5800-7800 pull like a mofo. Shift recovery is around 5800 rpm. So long as it is driveable, this car doesn't need any more power below 5000 rpm lol.
Finally the pictures!
So the big point of stress for a lot of people with LS7's right now is the titanium rods. The CRN coating for whatever reason is getting chipped away on the rod faces and putting titanium powder through the oil. The failure mode is still excessive heat and a spun bearing, but also sucks that you're pumping titanium grit through your engine as well.
I was very pleased with the condition of the rods coming out of the shortblock. Most of them looked pretty much virgin, and a few had some witness marks - but nothing that even closely resembles a coating failure.
(https://i.imgur.com/S7aCACI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AQvoR7x.jpg)
The crank was also in good shape with no visible signs of wear or damage. It has since been mag'ed, checked for straightness, and polished with a clean bill of health.
(https://i.imgur.com/no3ulNs.jpg)
The block did have a couple bores with some grooves that actually needed to be cut out. Nothing major, but it looks like some junk made its way through the engine for sure.
(https://i.imgur.com/mkv8kI8.jpg)
Same as the bores, the bearings had a little bit of crud in them. Probably what all of these things look like coming apart.
(https://i.imgur.com/63WhRdI.jpg)
One surprise tool purchase I needed to make was a main cap puller for the LS7 block. I highly recommend this thing. Here's my dad modeling it lmao. The LS7 has billet steel main caps and have dowel bushings for alignment. They do not come off easily unless you have the right tool.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZcuDX4n.jpg)
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This was kind of crazy lol, but we drilled and tapped the block for oil squirters. With the plan to be running high compression with sometimes questionable octane fuel, and also hopefully run road race and full mile events, I wanted to help this thing out as much as possible.
Also with the dry sump I want to run some serious crankcase vacuum. It is a concern to run high vacuum as you lose the splash oiling on the pins and you might wind up welding a pin to the rod and throwing it out the block.
This was a nice kit, but rather sketchy lol. Thankfully...no harm no foul and the block is drilled and tapped for 8 squirters.
(https://i.imgur.com/4js05Ca.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YyyxYQW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kNFXc2T.jpg)
The hole is drilled into the main journal for oil feed, and an oil squirter jet is screwed into there. It protrudes through the other side of the web, and the angle of the jet makes it spray the underside of the piston. It cools the entire underside of the piston as it goes up and down the oil crosses back and forth.
So this was the final step needed before sending the block out to machining. Didn't exactly want to have the block machined and then break a tap off in the main web or something stupid....
We use Dougan's Race Engines in Socal for our race engines. These guys are CRUSHING it in trophy truck races right now. They pretty much have booked themselves solid with their own race engine program and have turned away outside work. Luckily my dad was able to call them up and they agreed to keep doing our race engines. These guys are the ones out front coming 1, 2, and 3 every event.
http://dougansracing.com/
Machine work wasn't too serious. We had them clip the deck to true it up, honed the bores to the new pistons, and they needed to hone the rods to fit the new pins. When I torqued the ARP bolts in the rods they didn't distort so the big end did not need to be machined. The mains were also true and did not need an align hone.
Everything is done with machining and we've started with mock up. Once everything checks out the rotating assembly can go out for balance.
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I started mocking up the block the last couple weekends. I am pushing to get to the point of checking valve drop so I know my piston to valve clearance. That will tell me if 1, the cam fits, and 2, if I can cut the heads another .060" to bring the compression up where I want it. I may be able to flycut the pistons if I need a little more clearance, but we'll see. I have a nice engineering contact at Mahle that will probably answer me if I write to him.
I went a little crazy after I ordered the pistons...a small dome would've made things easier, but I got these for an absolute steal on eBay with one of those $100 rebate offers that were going on, and the pistons were already marked under summit pricing. A more race/custom oriented piston would've been triple the price, and I love the quality of Mahle parts. They make it very apparent why they're a top tier 1 supplier to the auto manufacturers.
I got a little stuck right before the moment of truth and haven't been able to get my answer yet regarding PTV.
So like I mentioned before, Billy Godbold is a G and posted on his facebook (if you aren't friends and follow him, you should...you see some cool ass shit) about some prototype low shock solid roller lobes that he's developed recently. I reached out to him and he sent me his unpublished lobe lift and let me grind my cam from them.
These low shock solid lobes have slightly more lash than a LLSR which has some definite benefits. These lobes according to Billy have a "wider range of acceptable lash" meaning the cold setting isn't as critical, and if the lash does drift you're not tearing stuff up. With a LLSR you also sometimes have to actually preload the valves slightly when cold which isn't good for the seats.
A LLSR is not as new of an idea as Cammotion wants you to think. Really what it is is a hydraulic lobe profile with a solid roller lifter on it. They do have some merit, and they've definitely developed new lobes specifically for LLSR apps, but people were doing this way back in the 60's. Comp has some lobes like that too...our 415 hydraulic cam drag motor has these "hybrid" lobes from Comp and they run awesome, but for a ground up solid roller design they can optimize a bit more.
(https://i.imgur.com/2f9xQFC.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/EyiQ4mo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2wfXeZ0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cmUa0wE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aiHEYia.jpg)
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That thing is going to sound wild!
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The cylinder headssssss...done by BES. BES does a lot of class engines and heads up stuff. I got the chance to buy these pretty much at dealer cost when a customer backed out...I was quite happy.
BES and CID also partnered to make the most seriously badass cylinder heads in the world for LS engines. Check this page out to see what level they're working on.
https://cidheadscom.myshopify.com/pages/be-ls-cylinder-heads
I'll just...give you guys a few moments
(https://i.imgur.com/0b5gSUq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iqU4ykQ.jpg)
Neat to see they unshroud around the exhaust valve which is the only real weakness of the LS7 head. The chamber hasn't been opened any more, but from a first look they need larger than a factory gasket, and should be biased away from the exhaust valve.
(https://i.imgur.com/7m0IGfW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aC3xWIZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rqYsHyC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V28RoFA.jpg)
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To go with the heads, I have brand new Del West titanium intake valves, and Ferrea solid stainless exhaust valves. I also sprung for the Isky bushed solid lifters. The bushings replace needle bearings in the wheel axle which have a habit of failing and destroying entire engines. The redzone lifters are designed for endurance race applications like 24 hour races.
(https://i.imgur.com/4AvZZwM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EaRAKG6.jpg)
How about a titanium 2.200" valve that is lighter than a 1.61" stainless valve? They are deceptively light to pick up and handle.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q93UBhX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TUNW3wq.jpg)
For the rocker arms I went with T&D steel rockers that are made for the stock eliminator class of NHRA racing. The LS7 COPO motors retain the cast in pedestal mounts. They're a very nice piece. The next step from here is having the heads machined down to accept a true shaft rocker, but that'd be another $2500-3000 at this point...I'll try the pedestal mount rockers first.
(https://i.imgur.com/GBc6qzS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SU8zf05.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VcOUCFc.jpg)
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So after mocking up the short block, the cam degreed in perfectly and the piston was about .008" out of the hole which is very near where I wanted it for optimal quench. I will need to order a gasket for it anyway due to the larger bore, so once I get all the pistons in for the last time I'll be able to know the final thickness.
(https://i.imgur.com/6zcuo6Z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sPSzN5I.jpg)
After all those steps I could finally get to the magic question of how much PTV do I have after grinding a huge ass cam and buying shelf pistons with small valve pockets...
(https://i.imgur.com/zd8J0Hl.jpg)
And I got stuck and ran out of time.
The rockers don't clear the heads. Not a huge deal, but need to go in and pocket them a little with a grinder for more clearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/LGQaWPX.jpg)
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That thing is going to sound wild!
I can't wait for the sound! Especially if I get it up to ~13.5:1 it is going to be gnarly.
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Do you plan on running pump E85? What kind of power should that head/cam combo be good for?
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Do you plan on running pump E85? What kind of power should that head/cam combo be good for?
Yeah pump e85 and also 91 octane + boostane. I’ll do flex fuel with the Holley.
I think a realistic number is going to be 760 flywheel horsepower. I’ll run it on the engine dyno when it’s done.
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very nice set up sir
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Thanks everyone :) I've been really excited about this it just takes me about 5 times longer to do things. It is fun to finally have progress to share and not just a pile of parts.
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Thanks everyone :) I've been really excited about this it just takes me about 5 times longer to do things. It is fun to finally have progress to share and not just a pile of parts.
Only 5x? Boy, do I know that feeling. LOL
Nice looking project though. I'd love to build one like that for my FD. :bacon: But $$$$$ :'(
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I'm working on a not insane version of your setup. Sleeved TSP gen 4 block. Full LS7 rotating assembly. Still working out the heads. I have a set of fresh LS7s but they've been cnc'd to 312cc on the intake. Far too big for me but the price was just too good to pass up.
Looking forward to more updates!
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Got my valve drop specs
At zero lash I have 105 clearance on the exhaust and 86 on the intake. Shooting for .080 and .060 when it’s hot with lash.
Going to cut .040 off the heads which should put me about 12.8. Not quite as high as I wanted but it’s the space I’ve got.
I can now get the rotating assembly balanced too which should mean I’m done with machine shops.
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I'm working on a not insane version of your setup. Sleeved TSP gen 4 block. Full LS7 rotating assembly. Still working out the heads. I have a set of fresh LS7s but they've been cnc'd to 312cc on the intake. Far too big for me but the price was just too good to pass up.
Looking forward to more updates!
That’s a huge port!! I’m surprised there’s enough material in a stock head to get that big.
Those TSP bottom ends are a great deal. You should be happy.
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When I bought the heads the port wasn't listed. They guy(older) got them in a trade and never took them out of the bag.
I had to measure them myself and was pretty shocked when I had to fill my 4th 100cc tube... The exhaust ports are for a 2" primary too. My 1 7/8" are smaller hence the need to sell them.
You can see why I got a deal on them. They were repaired after a valve stem popped through the roof. The could use a reCNC on that port but I think the company is no more. NGP in Oklahoma.
I'm looking for something in the TSP OEM head range. Or even a Mamo 265 if I find a briefcase of money.
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So I don't have much too much to report recently other than my girl and I made it past our housewarming alive and still talking to each other. I swear I have never had less sleep that consistently in my life leading up to the housewarming. We rocked it though, and without the pressure of the deadline I know a lot wouldn't have happened (including something awesome you'll see in the next post).
Unfortunately I have had a change of plans with regards to the compression of the motor. I don't have enough piston to valve clearance to cut the heads a meaningful amount. Going mega tight on the PTV I would only be able to squeak out about 12.4:1 compression, which is enough to require E85 or Boostane to run on 91, but not enough to make a huge difference in performance. All the headache and expense without the gains doesn't make much sense.
My 13.5:1 compression dreams might be dashed, but at "only" 11.9:1 I should be stylin. I'll still be running flexfuel for the cooling properties and added security of some extra octane.
As far as rings go, I bit the bullet and called up total seal and got some low tension gas ported rings ordered up. Super super trick rings that give you the benefit of gas ported pistons, but that drop into a standard ringland. They cut grooves in the top ring that accomplish the same thing as horizontal gas ports in the pistons. These will drop into the Mahle pistons, but will offer a ton of performance gain with the drysump. They were super excited for me to get these - promising it will be worth it. This entire time I've wanted to pull vacuum on the crank case and it just didn't seem like a good match to have a high tension OEM type ring pack that came with the Mahle pistons.
Now that the rings are here, and I decided on a chamber volume, I can get everything to the machine shop to balance the bottom end and then it is time to start fitting bearings and assembling the motor. Have hit a little lull in progress, but things should pick up again here soon.
The old Coroner has cancelled all my work travel, customer visits, trade shows...everything. It is also cancelling my races this month, and our largest race of the year is at risk in ~1 month. I guess if nothing else it opens me up to some free time to get shit done.
(https://www.speednik.com/files/2019/12/pri-2019-total-seal-piston-rings-debuts-new-gas-ported-top-rings-2019-12-18_21-27-37_404915.jpg)
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Sorry to hear the high compression didn't work out. I'll be at 12:1 with an 8.77:1DCR. I have yet to measure PTV but that should be happening this week.
Take the Corona with lime as an opportunity to finish stuff. Ha
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Sorry to hear the high compression didn't work out. I'll be at 12:1 with an 8.77:1DCR. I have yet to measure PTV but that should be happening this week.
Take the Corona with lime as an opportunity to finish stuff. Ha
Yeah it was my fault for trying to change plans mid build. 12:1 was my first goal and it’s not a bad one..I’d need pistons with a dome or deeper valve pockets to do the high compression thing but I’ve already honed the block to the pistons. It’ll all work out.
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Sorry to hear the high compression didn't work out. I'll be at 12:1 with an 8.77:1DCR. I have yet to measure PTV but that should be happening this week.
Take the Corona with lime as an opportunity to finish stuff. Ha
Out of interest how do you calculate the DCR, there are many variables but I guess the main influence is cam overlap?
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Not overlap. Intake valve closing at .006". Mine is 75.5°. Search for a DCR calculator. You'll need SCR, IVC, rod length, bore and stroke I believe. 8.7:1 is about the limit for 91. I ran 8.96 for a couple years but required 93. High DCR is pretty awesome. Makes the throttle super snappy.
Cammotion doesn't advertise their .006" durations so I had to email them before I bought my cam.
Calculate IVC at .006"
Calculate SCR
Calculate DCR
If you end up with a little too much or too little DCR you can use an adjustable cam sprocket and change the ICL. Most are +4. Regarding will lower DCR.
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So, I'm super glad that I am able to do this LS7 thing in parallel with keeping the car 100% driveable. I've been enjoying it a lot recently, driving it 2-3 times a week to work. Just ordered a bunch of tools and some little things to do. I'll have a jack, ramps and stands here soon. Ordered some longer and bigger pushrods to try an experiment with, going to change the plugs for the first time in maybe...5 years I think, and I need to fix my coolant tank after breaking the car last weekend up Angeles Crest Highway. Good news is, the car is phenomenal. With the slicks and Ohlins it really is an experience. My buddy just got an E92 M3 so we swapped for part of the drive and that was a blast too. Very neat car. Was really fun seeing my car driven in anger from behind.
I've been fighting the cooling in this thing for years. The radiator itself may be big enough, but the expansion tank and overflow are undersized for the LS cooling system volume. I can babysit it and keep the water full, but before long it pushes water out, and through the years I've had a number of problems that prevent the cooling system from holding pressure and cooling properly. Before ACH I gave it a tuneup to fix a radiator cap leak due to the expansion tank corroding away, and put over a half gallon of water in it that mysteriously disappeared. Thinking it would be good to go, in fixing the cap leak the next weakest point failed. Luckily it was only 32 degrees at the top of ACH and the car was cooling well. It lasted about 4 hours of driving before the tank finally failed beneath the cap and started overheating and sprayed water and steam out the filler neck. Was exciting.
So now my buddy is going to build a stainless tank for me after I told him what I wanted. It'll hold a lot more water which hopefully will keep water in the engine and not pushing out the overflow.
I hinted at some garage updates in the last post. I'm loving this garage. Believe it or not, my girl was the one that pushed to get the floors coated. This was an awesome process. It was completed within one working day, and everything goes back in 24 hours later. Also got the car clayed and waxed the day before I went up ACH and it came out great. Now it is absolutely caked with gravel and dirt lol. ACH was filthy up there from the winter weather.
(https://i.imgur.com/UvtPaxS.png)
Responsibly got my corona virus mask on as you can see, but the tank was not happy with me at all. I let the thing cool down for an hour in a target parking lot and dumped a gallon of water in. I hit 240*+. I say plus because the water was so low that I think the sensor just became uncovered. Managed to drive it home and it never got over 185 and the tank held pressure again. Either the stopleak that fixed Samberg's shit radiator plugged the tank up for now, or it only splits once pressure hits a certain level, 212+. Once it gets an air path to the water in the tank it is a runaway failure because it locally boils and then the steam pushes the tank apart.
(https://i.imgur.com/AIOgUW0.jpg)
Actually not too bothered about it. I've wanted to do this tank for years, and this gives me an excuse to slow down and get it done. Looking forward to breaking in the garage with the first car project.
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I really like where your headed with this. High compression is great but if it causes issues with finding the proper fuel readily, isn’t that going to become a problem? I want to build a 427ci motor as well, but streetable/reliable is key imo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I really like where your headed with this. High compression is great but if it causes issues with finding the proper fuel readily, isn’t that going to become a problem? I want to build a 427ci motor as well, but streetable/reliable is key imo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah high comp without the right fuel is a major drag. Even normal low load driving can cause problems. The plan was Boostane additive and flex fuel to make it work, but end of the day it would be a huge hassle.
I thought you already had a 427 Paul? I know you’re dry sumped and making lots of power.
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No 427 here. Just a well thought out drysump Ls2. 505rwhp and 450rwtq. My goal would be to make 600+ to the wheels, low 10sec street/track monster. I have everything else built to handle 1000hp. This season I’m concentrating on seat time!
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Nice... I make about 450wtq from my stroked ls2 right now. That’s a really manageable amount of power with a good tire to still drive the car hard. R comps do just fine without needing a drag radial or anything that would ruin the handling. I’m trying to add as little torque as possible but raise my peak power rpm about 1500 rpm higher lol.
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I agree, more horse power up top without increasing the tire frying low end torque. Love the torque, but there’s a usable limit. I’m running the race logic traction control which definitely comes in handy but I found that it doesn’t help at the drag strip.
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Awesome rings, I wonder how they compare durability wise with the reduced material. I am at 430 rwtq, I also want to build a 427. Nice garage!
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Nice build, definitely a good read.
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Nice build, definitely a good read.
Thank you! Pretty wild going back to receipts and old posts in my thread to find out wtf I did back then. 5+ years ago since it has been running...build started over 10 years ago now.
I dig it that there's still some of us poking around this place.
Awesome rings, I wonder how they compare durability wise with the reduced material. I am at 430 rwtq, I also want to build a 427. Nice garage!
They're definitely getting real thin! I think down to ~ .033" at the groove.
The garage is tight but I'm loving it. I'm finding stuff to do on the car just because I can.
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So while my car is down with a leaking cooling system (god that is a familiar statement...) I found some other stuff to occupy myself with.
I've always hated my intake tube. It was always supposed to be temporary to run the smaller GTO screened MAF until I figured out the larger LS7 MAF. It has always looked janky, and I've been pretty convinced that the multiple sections are steering the air in the tube and causing turbulence in front of the MAF. Last time I threw it on I really just said F-it, this garbage is going on until I get a Holley...and that is still kind of the plan, but...in the spirit of social distancing and isolation I'm finding stupid little side jobs to do.
In defense of this monstrosity, it started out as a really clean and nice looking solution that just got smashed into place to make the hood close, and after numerous times taking it on and off it really just looks like mashed asshole at this point.
(https://i.imgur.com/uxFCm6f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cQp0Tgv.jpg)
Oh, and maybe I should clean my filter :-[ :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/W1Saard.jpg)
So holley has this new bitchin throttle body spacer that is cut on an 18* angle. I was super excited to unbox this thing and try it out, but it runs into literally everything. The TB is touching the water pump, the samberg expansion tank is in the way, and worst off the DBW plug for my throttle body is directly into the belt tensioner.
I'm working through all the little issues, and currently building a move-out bracket for the tensioner to give me more space to the DBW connector. Overall I'm really happy with what it does for the intake tract, and I'm hoping it'll improve the tuneability of the engine and maybe even give it a little more plenum volume. Mostly I've just hated the cobbled together look of it. Doesn't match the effort that went into the rest of it.
Tuning wise, even with my baby cam I've always had chugging and misfires in the parking lot and also some speeds on the freeway. Anything with low airflows just gives the MAF crap data and you can't really tune it out. Doesn't bother me much..but it should be glass smooth. My excuse of poor MAF data will be harder to use when I clean up the intake tract.
The LS3/LS7 maf was atrocious in this regard. It had continuous misfire on the freeway to the point where it was cutting in and out. Put load on the engine and it smoothed right out.
Even more annoying, I could never force my E40 ecu to do speed density properly. I nailed it down to a lack of functional transient fueling in the SD mode, or at least the ability to adjust it. The parameters are completely unresponsive, and they're pre-populated for LS2 intake, 6 liters and small heads. I have an LS3 intake, 6.6 liters, and larger heads and it just isn't enough to keep it from bogging when you stab the gas or bang gears.
Whatever - Holley with the ls7 is a certainty. If this isolation thing continues too long I may just got for it now.
You can see I munched off some pieces of the short side radius on the filter as well. That used to extend up into the elbow and would definitely steer the air in the wrong direction.
(https://i.imgur.com/cHO7PTQ.jpg)
Showing the interference here
(https://i.imgur.com/rk6EciF.png)
The move-out bracket will put the tensioner somewhere around here.
(https://i.imgur.com/s7cvItN.jpg)
Overall I really think it is going to be worth it. I ordered a 4" silicone couper that will join the MAF to the TB and I'll be good to go.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0WW7Rn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wKAUOkt.jpg)
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A couple other things going on, my buddy with the M3 I went up ACH with is currently printing me out a prototype expansion tank. After I limped home I took some measurements for him, and we're going to mount this thing back by the firewall on the passenger side. I took the ABS out ages ago, so I have plenty of room and 5 or so m6 screw locations. Once we test fit this, and design some mounting brackets for it, he'll make it for me out of stainless. I've wanted to do this for yearsssss as I've continuously fought to keep water in this thing. This tank will hold three times more fluid than the Howe expansion tank, and also potentially make room on the cylinder head for more fun stuff in the future.
(https://i.imgur.com/9RAx1Av.jpg)
Also, just because, I ordered some 11/32, .120" wall thickness pushrods that are .025" longer than what I have in the engine currently. I already have fairly long pushrods, but they're 5/16 .080 wall. My engine has always shown a fairly quick drop-off in power above 6000. I installed when the engine was new basic LS7 lifters that were brand new, but still would not be my first choice today. I really wish I had some slow leakdown reduced travel Johnson lifters in there.
(https://i.imgur.com/DZ62SRd.png)
Anyways, the longer and stiffer pushrods I'm throwing everything I can at it that is easily accessible to hopefully extend the powerband upstairs. My buddy suggested I try longer pushrods, and while I can't really see the length being an issue - maybe the stiffness is. I have a moderate pressure dual spring on there right now and maybe it is just going haywire on me.
Got everything taken off in preparation. No broken springs, and everything looked healthy inside as far as the eye could see. Ready to slap this thing back together in between working on that tensioner bracket and the new coolant tank.
(https://i.imgur.com/kacg7VS.jpg)
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Looking good. I love the little upgrades, it’s amazing how happy these little things can make you.
One question, why not flip the ls3 throttle body. Eliminates need for the spacer and clears almost everything. I think i only had to take a little material off the top of the water pump.
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I ran a TSP MAF housing with a screen that I added and a LS3 card MAF. Got the tune dead on and never had an issue with a very similar intake setup to yours. With a GM ECU. Went full SD with the MS3.
The Johnson may add a few HP but the LS7 lifters have a HUGE range for preload. I have the SLR and have a window of about .008-.010" on the preload. The rocker wipe and pushrod lengths need to be dead on. Biggest benefit to the LS7 heads is you can run a 3/8-.080" pushrod which are quite a bit cheaper than the 11/32" tapered rods I had on the LS1 with Mamo heads.
That being said, I had rather aggressive lobes and the motor carried all the way to 7k with no roll over through a fast long runner intake. Valves were extremely stable.
New setup is cammotion cam(soft lobes), SLR lifters, 3/8 rods, YT UL 1.8, TI intake and new stock late model hollow exhaust valves. Int and exh weigh about 74g each. PAC 380lb open duals. Should rev all day long until the intake chokes it.
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If you get the MAF figured out let me know. I want to tune with my LS7 MAF again but its just too short of a intake path to make it reliable. I went SD and its worked great I just would love to see the actual amount of air my engine is taking in for some other aspects of monitoring/optimizing. Glad to see updates on this one!!
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Looking good. I love the little upgrades, it’s amazing how happy these little things can make you.
One question, why not flip the ls3 throttle body. Eliminates need for the spacer and clears almost everything. I think i only had to take a little material off the top of the water pump.
Looks like he is still running a pump mounted power steering reservoir, wouldn't that need to be relocated?
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Looking good. I love the little upgrades, it’s amazing how happy these little things can make you.
One question, why not flip the ls3 throttle body. Eliminates need for the spacer and clears almost everything. I think i only had to take a little material off the top of the water pump.
Looks like he is still running a pump mounted power steering reservoir, wouldn't that need to be relocated?
Good point. I thought other people have flipped it as well but I don’t know if they have PS. Another reason to go with the FD power steering pump. 😝
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Heads up on my LS1, my tuner eliminated the MAF altogether. I threw it away and my tune is now based only on the MAP at the back of my intake manifold.
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Heads up on my LS1, my tuner eliminated the MAF altogether. I threw it away and my tune is now based only on the MAP at the back of my intake manifold.
That’s what I tried very hard to accomplish, but my ecu doesn’t play well without a MAF.
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Heads up on my LS1, my tuner eliminated the MAF altogether. I threw it away and my tune is now based only on the MAP at the back of my intake manifold.
That’s what I tried very hard to accomplish, but my ecu doesn’t play well without a MAF.
The e38 originally didn’t handle SD tune as well but I believe HP tuners released an update that made it much easier and doable. Maybe check to see if anything has changed with the e40.
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Heads up on my LS1, my tuner eliminated the MAF altogether. I threw it away and my tune is now based only on the MAP at the back of my intake manifold.
That’s what I tried very hard to accomplish, but my ecu doesn’t play well without a MAF.
The e38 originally didn’t handle SD tune as well but I believe HP tuners released an update that made it much easier and doable. Maybe check to see if anything has changed with the e40.
The last firmware I'm running I believe is from 2008 or so, maybe with small updates since then to enable SD and better fan control range of temperatures. I'll see if there's something new. At first glance it looks like there is a "V3.0" that might be newer than what I have. Would be awesome to get SD working, although I might be on track to making the larger MAF work.
The responsiveness of speed density is just so nice. I always had the most fun driving around in SD open loop honestly..Basically as close to carbureted as you're going to get with an EFI car. Closed loop is obviously the only way to go long term. I seat of the pants can feel the slight transfer delay of the MAF. Maybe that just means my blended model isn't good enough.
I ran a TSP MAF housing with a screen that I added and a LS3 card MAF. Got the tune dead on and never had an issue with a very similar intake setup to yours. With a GM ECU. Went full SD with the MS3.
If you get the MAF figured out let me know. I want to tune with my LS7 MAF again but its just too short of a intake path to make it reliable. I went SD and its worked great I just would love to see the actual amount of air my engine is taking in for some other aspects of monitoring/optimizing. Glad to see updates on this one!!
Based on Exidous recommendation I just ordered some honeycomb and another 4" LS3 maf housing to try. I really considered the TSP one, but I couldn't find a way to order just the billet housing with the honeycomb. Didn't want to overspend to get an extra MAF and adapter harness. Excited to try it out! Younger me was concerned about losing some power due to flow restriction, and out of spite of not getting SD to work I just threw the old shit back on. The larger housing with honeycomb is still much better than the Delphi MAF I'm running right now.
There's just no way to get a good MAF signal using the Samberg rad. The run is too short, and too many bends. They really want to see 10" straight section before the MAF to ensure smooth flow.
Looking good. I love the little upgrades, it’s amazing how happy these little things can make you.
One question, why not flip the ls3 throttle body. Eliminates need for the spacer and clears almost everything. I think i only had to take a little material off the top of the water pump.
Looks like he is still running a pump mounted power steering reservoir, wouldn't that need to be relocated?
Good point. I thought other people have flipped it as well but I don’t know if they have PS. Another reason to go with the FD power steering pump. 😝
I do have my power steering pump in the way on that side, and my harness isn't long enough. More importantly though, the throttle body is designed to open from the bottom for proper distribution into the manifold. Opening it from the top actually kills power and messes with distribution.
The reason for the spacer is to angle the TB down. It isn't for hood clearance so much as it is for the proper alignment of the TB to the Samberg intake. The LS3 intake points the TB flange upward. The Holley spacer angles it down 18*.
The spacer is doing a lot of good things for me right now, and I think I've gotten everything to fit. Just need to fab up a little bracket to hold the belt tensioner in place, and grind a little off the bottom of the TB to get rid of the interference with the water pump. It bolts on now but is touching. Just needs a little .050" clearance.
The Johnson may add a few HP but the LS7 lifters have a HUGE range for preload. I have the SLR and have a window of about .008-.010" on the preload. The rocker wipe and pushrod lengths need to be dead on. Biggest benefit to the LS7 heads is you can run a 3/8-.080" pushrod which are quite a bit cheaper than the 11/32" tapered rods I had on the LS1 with Mamo heads.
That being said, I had rather aggressive lobes and the motor carried all the way to 7k with no roll over through a fast long runner intake. Valves were extremely stable.
New setup is cammotion cam(soft lobes), SLR lifters, 3/8 rods, YT UL 1.8, TI intake and new stock late model hollow exhaust valves. Int and exh weigh about 74g each. PAC 380lb open duals. Should rev all day long until the intake chokes it.
I got non-tapered 11/32" pushrods for a reasonable price. Summit brand. Look like nice parts. A little more money than the .080 wall 5/16 I had before, but they've also got more material so that's expected. My LS7 I'll run 3/8" or maybe even bigger. I'll have crazy stiff springs on that thing, and about .760 intake lift.
The cammotion stuff lets you do a lot without too much spring. They make for a good street package that's for sure.
About the LS7 lifters and their super wide range of preload - yes, that's true, but it does affect power and there are trade-offs. I have big valve pockets, and a dual spring with hollow valves and what're supposed to be very stable lobes from Comp. If they don't float then they won't pump up - I'm shooting to preload them near the bottom of their travel to reduce the amount of oil under the plunger.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/1801-the-wrong-length-pushrod-can-cost-your-engine-power-and-performance/
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So, I may not have the most current files, but I'm checking tune files from my dropbox from 5 years ago and I've already found a couple errors when I was trying to run speed density...sooooooo...maybe this one is on me lol.
I just remember losing days of time beating my head against the wall when I had far more free time than I do now. I'd be really surprised if it was as simple as not having the dynamic airflow set properly. Just downloaded a SD tune from the repository and the dynamic airflow is set the same way. If the MAF is failing out at the outset, I wouldn't think it would matter.
Highlighting reasons again why I really want a Holley - tired of forcing an ECU to do something it isn't meant to.
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(https://i.imgur.com/B5jqrXB.jpg)
Well that sure as shit looks a lot better! My coupler came in the mail. None of it contacts the hood anymore as best I can tell, and that’s a 4” straight coupler. The 4” straight MAF tube should work just fine. This will make a nice backup plan if I still hate the ls3 MAF.
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Looks good, extremely similar to mine except the 18 degree spacer. I went with a Treadstone 45 degree degree for the front one, if you want it to match your other silicone coupler.
I am curious to hear your results. I get minimal bucking at low speeds which I assume was MAF related. I might go SD tune at some point, just not sure if it worth it.
As for wanting stand alone, I am right there with you. It seems it would simplify some of the little nagging things, just hard to justify the cost as they are pretty small things...
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I did an SD tune and it drives way better than the MAF tune did. That's usually the case with a big cam, you just need to find a good tuner.
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This is pretty much exactly what I ran with the TSP MAF. I had mine before there were selling it with the mesh. Bought it from a computer parts place. lt was meant for 120mm fans. Worked out really well because you could choose the cell count.
Just replace the shiny tube with the MAF w/screen and you'll be gtg. You'll have to spend a little time getting it just right but your wot AFTs will never be more stable.
Pic is the almost done 427. Just waiting on pushrods and the exhaust is have to make next weekend. Getting excited. Added oil and fuel pressure plus oil temp to the ECU rather than just gauges. Looking forward to not blowing more ringlands due to air in the fuel rail.
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Bitchin! That’s exciting. I get giddy thinking of the ls7 in mine. Going to be ridiculous.
Keep those valve covers on when you’re not working to keep dust and crap out of the motor. You might be already, but just had to say it just in case :)
I ordered a bunch more stuff and if it shows up I’ll have some more to work on. Going to be putting a pause to the stress shopping though. Shit is starting to get real here in California. Very possibly could have no income here in the coming weeks.
At least I have a pile of odd jobs to occupy myself with on the car. I do need a couple more shipments to show up which I’m hoping will still happen.
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Looks good, extremely similar to mine except the 18 degree spacer. I went with a Treadstone 45 degree degree for the front one, if you want it to match your other silicone coupler.
I am curious to hear your results. I get minimal bucking at low speeds which I assume was MAF related. I might go SD tune at some point, just not sure if it worth it.
As for wanting stand alone, I am right there with you. It seems it would simplify some of the little nagging things, just hard to justify the cost as they are pretty small things...
I like that coupler for the front too. Whatever I settle on I think I’ll swap to that. I’ve held off on changing just because this has always been “temporary” but it’s been 5 years now lol.
The terminator X makes a real strong case for never using an OEM computer again.
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What a pain in the butt. Looks good though!
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Added oil and fuel pressure plus oil temp to the ECU rather than just gauges. Looking forward to not blowing more ringlands due to air in the fuel rail.
Whats this now??
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I got some air in the fuel from fuel slosh. It took out three ring lands from the rings heati g up too much. I've added other things in the tank to help but I've also added a pressure sensor on the fuel rail. If the fuel pressure drops below say 50psi I can have the ECU cut all spark and go into limp mode.
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Interesting.... I thought you were referring just to aftermarket fuel rails. That’s a nice feature in the computer! I think that’s exactly what blew up my ls1, along with a not so safe tune. Intake looks very similar to mine, I’m using an ls7 maf card.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200322/ea786ef5c168db522c8c329bc25ab9eb.jpg)
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Sweet progress.. I may or may not (LOL) need that angled spacer to get my Dorman intake and 90MM TB to fit under the hood.
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It's a shame that spacer is limited to 95mm. Would like one for the 102 throttle body.
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Hope everyone is doing ok in the quarantine. I’m working from home and my girl is furloughed. Just dodged a 43 person layoff today. The company is slated to open again May 4th. Hoping that happens, and no more collateral damage. Bad time to be a supplier for passenger jets.
Been getting some work in on this thing off and on. Not as motivated as I’d hoped honestly, but have my bouts of productivity. Really close to firing it up now, although my LiFePO4 battery might be dead dead again. Not great to have a weak battery when needing to head out for tuning so I might have to bite the bullet and replace it. The thing was completely flat even though I unhooked the battery, and charging it I can’t get it to hold over 11V long term. I can surface charge the bitch to 14.8 though and I bet it’ll start from there 😂.
I got my new pushrods installed. Not sure if they were a weak link before or not but these things are stout. Summit sources a really nice pushrod for these. Much nicer than the TSP ones.
(https://i.imgur.com/yPCnJie.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/isJP6mF.jpg)
My buddy and I had that expansion tank planned and he finished printing a prototype for test fit and that was just when we went full lockdown in March so that’s on hold for now.
(https://i.imgur.com/uIF8DdJ.jpg)
Took the old tank up to my dad’s and he was able to tig the neck back on. Won’t leak now I can guarantee that. Temporary fix until my buddy can finish the new tank design for me.
Got the intake finalized with the ls7 maf and a new tube. Epoxied in some honeycomb and going to give it a shot. With the angled TB spacer the hood closes just fine even with a round tube.
(https://i.imgur.com/dOAAZTa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tVIGJuu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/azKghm0.jpg)
Swapped over to a Katech tensioner I’ve had on the shelf for years. I used to throw belts like crazy after I put the ATI balancer on, but went to a shorter belt and never had an issue so it sat on the shelf. The Katech tensioner was the only way I’d get a belt on and not risk the spring tensioner crashing into the bracket I made.
Didn’t think it was possible, but I made all this crap even tighter to get to in the engine bay lol. Everything is tight and the belt is on and adjusted up though so all good.
(https://i.imgur.com/2XMcpYR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BcFZpeZ.jpg)
I also decided since I have time to kill I’d swap out the plugs (for the first time in 5 years) to some TR6-IX iridiums, and finally put on these beefy ass IGN1A coils I bought about a year and a half ago. These things are HUGE. I got them to use with the ls7. You can gap the plugs up to .060” for a big arc and run a super long dwell time even at high rpm. Supposed to have a stronger and cleaner idle with big cams. Better at igniting the dirty mixture with exhaust reversion. Probably won’t do a lot with my mild cam LS2 but figured it gives me something to do. I’ve heard claims that you can reduce timing and gain power even on a mild engine but I’ll believe that probably never.
(https://i.imgur.com/k9wEA9u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3k6uNrY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BJVsuLU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a9nbMGQ.jpg)
I just need to wire these things in and flash the tune over to the ls7 maf calibration and it’ll be good to go (if it starts). These coils get 8ga wire direct from the battery and a 70A relay. Craziness.
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If you start to have trouble tuning the thing, you might want to try taking the honey comb out. I know it doesn't sound right, but someone else had an issue with their card style MAF and I mentioned the honey comb and they found theirs had shifted and was causing the tuning issues. I know the Samberg intakes are not ideal due to the short straight section the MAF sits in, but with a card style, the honeycombs can sometimes cause more issue than good. Just an FYI if you see issues you can't get the tune to work for. But with an LS2 E40, speed density should be possible if all else fails.
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Coming along nicely! I am curious to hear if the honeycomb helps as I have always had it. So just wondering if it is actually doing anything.
Those coils are insane....
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Good luck lighting those coils with a dead tiny lithium battery :D
Awesome build! Also agree on MAF and honeycomb. I had to disable my card style, I would love to use it if the spacer and honeycomb work. SD it runs soooo good now even though a tuner would HATE my hptuners map. I had to create a high fuel spike at certain RPMs to get it to run smooth as butta. No idea why, but as soon as I smooth it, it hiccups at those RPMs so I left it in.
Can't wait for a driving review!
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Good luck lighting those coils with a dead tiny lithium battery :D
Awesome build! Also agree on MAF and honeycomb. I had to disable my card style, I would love to use it if the spacer and honeycomb work. SD it runs soooo good now even though a tuner would HATE my hptuners map. I had to create a high fuel spike at certain RPMs to get it to run smooth as butta. No idea why, but as soon as I smooth it, it hiccups at those RPMs so I left it in.
Can't wait for a driving review!
Man I thought the same thing lol. My alternator better not die either or I'll be on the side of the road after firing one revolution lol.
If you start to have trouble tuning the thing, you might want to try taking the honey comb out. I know it doesn't sound right, but someone else had an issue with their card style MAF and I mentioned the honey comb and they found theirs had shifted and was causing the tuning issues. I know the Samberg intakes are not ideal due to the short straight section the MAF sits in, but with a card style, the honeycombs can sometimes cause more issue than good. Just an FYI if you see issues you can't get the tune to work for. But with an LS2 E40, speed density should be possible if all else fails.
I epoxied the honeycomb in and it is definitely not going anywhere. I think it is a lesser of two evils situation. We'll see how it goes! Have you run speed density on the E40? I tried years ago for months and probably a solid 20-30 hours of tuning time in the car not to mention hours on the forum and tweaking the cal. Always had a lean bog when shifting hard at redline. Never made any sense to me, and HPTuners forum couldn't figure it out either. I determined what I thought was a cause which was transient fueling not doing anything. I've seen this happen with other parameters where you can program them, but they're not actually functional.
Regardless, the intake tract is vastly improved from the previous setup for both angle of approach to the TB, as well as the smoothing the inside radius of the bend out big time.
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It's very sensitive but once you get the MAF dialed in you'll be happy with the screen.
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[/quote]
I epoxied the honeycomb in and it is definitely not going anywhere. I think it is a lesser of two evils situation. We'll see how it goes! Have you run speed density on the E40? I tried years ago for months and probably a solid 20-30 hours of tuning time in the car not to mention hours on the forum and tweaking the cal. Always had a lean bog when shifting hard at redline. Never made any sense to me, and HPTuners forum couldn't figure it out either. I determined what I thought was a cause which was transient fueling not doing anything. I've seen this happen with other parameters where you can program them, but they're not actually functional.
Regardless, the intake tract is vastly improved from the previous setup for both angle of approach to the TB, as well as the smoothing the inside radius of the bend out big time.
[/quote]
I haven't tried it yet. Still just running MAF and letting it fill in the VE table as I drive around. With my MAF cal I made, I have fuel trims within 5% so I haven't tried speed density yet. Would like to at some point but still collecting data as I drive.
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I had better results with SD by putting the IAT sensor in the front bumper to get fresh air. The intake duct sensor heat soaks and you’ll have a bitch of a time getting a consistent idle cal. Once it heat soaks it’ll go 18:1 lean.
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I had better results with SD by putting the IAT sensor in the front bumper to get fresh air. The intake duct sensor heat soaks and you’ll have a bitch of a time getting a consistent idle cal. Once it heat soaks it’ll go 18:1 lean.
I have an MS3Pro, and my IAT is in the intake just behind the throttle body.
I have issues with inconsistent idle, perhaps this is my problem.
I wonder how it would work placed inside the K&N filter? That's where it was on my Miata when I installed the blower kit, and it worked well there.
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So I got everything final installed over the weekend and I went to hook my battery back up and it was dead dead. I run a Shorai LiFePO4 battery. Somehow it is self discharging while disconnected and was all the way down at 3V. Needless to say it has a dead cell internally. I can surface charge it to 14.8V which is 90% SOC but I hit the key and it drops to 10.5 immediately.
So I have a new battery to replace this paper weight, and got the old one out of the car.
Next fun thing I noticed is when I got the car in the air to take the battery out, my leaky radiator is back to haunt me. I guess hitting 250* and whatever huge pressure was in the cooling system failed the stopleak crap. The floor was covered in nasty congealed stopleak splooge, and the radiator tanks are weeping again on both sides and along the bottom of the core.
To recap my radiator experience thus far it has been - brand new samberg rad leaking in about 8 places in the core...got ignored by Samberg...paid a grip to have a new core welded into the radiator....newly welded up end tanks have leaks in both corners so I got pissed and threw stopleak in it. Nothing has ever really been right with the cooling system since then.
Samberg eventually did a run of radiators only to replace the large number of leakers. I picked up a spare one luckily a couple years back and so I guess I'm throwing that in now too along with a new battery.
I have some wire loom stuff on the way that gets here this weekend to button up the engine bay, and I should be good to go after that. The coil packs have a dedicated power harness and power relay now that are connecting straight to the battery as those coils draw 60-70A when cranked up lol. For now I just have it zip tied in place for the routing.
(https://i.imgur.com/LWX4ZZq.jpg)
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Seems getting a solid radiator option is the last plage for a lot of us -_-
Coming along though, I am digging the blacked out elements contrasting nicely with the white paint.
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So I picked up one of those Holley spacers for the throttle body. All the adds say 95mm. Ya, the center bore is 85mm. That's smaller than a stock LS7 throttle body.
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So I picked up one of those Holley spacers for the throttle body. All the adds say 95mm. Ya, the center bore is 85mm. That's smaller than a stock LS7 throttle body.
I never took a look at it to compare tbh I was more worried about making it fit. I've got to take the intake off again to get the rad out so I'll take a look.
The ls7 throttle blade is 90mm, but unless you've ported it there's a lot in the way choking it down to quite a bit smaller.
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My LS7 intake is ported and there's a pretty decent step behind the angle adapter. I'm mostly concerned with the 86mm bore to the 95mm throttle body. The opening is 90mm and tapers down to 86mm. Very odd.
Once I make it to the dyno I'll do a side-by-side.
On a side note, your intake is rather different than mine. Did they change it at some point? I think you have an LS3 intake there.
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Welp, you’re right.
The ID of that Holley piece is definitely smaller diameter. Without porting the ls2 tb I don’t think it’ll restrict more than it already is but it’s not helping lol.
I’m just wrenching on the ls3 headed stroker right now that’s in the car. The ls7 is at my parents and I’m not spending much time out.
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Ah gotcha, thought the pics of the LS7 heads was odd with an LS3 intake sitting there.
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I wonder when the leaky Samberg units happened. Halfspec car (mine) is still leak free. After my transmission issues last year I suppose I have a leaky rad in my future. Wasn't there a guy working on a good one? When I first was planning a swap years ago I think I was hoping a mishimoto RX7 bolt in unit would work, I also thought they were supposed to be well built.
Those coils are impressive!
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Welp things have really escalated lol
(https://i.imgur.com/D0Be92W.jpg)
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I see what you did there.
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Do I see a different engine going in?
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Do I see a different engine going in?
I wish! Haha. The ls7 isn't getting any love these days during quarantine.
My trans has leaked and popped out of reverse since day 1. I had the front end up to swap the battery and pull the rad and it just poured fluid out the back. The whole underside of the car is filthy because of it. Just getting more stuff done that I planned on during the LS7 install, but it'll be nice to get it sorted now.
RPS BC2 carbon clutch will be going in :) Should be a fun improvement over the Monster LT1S. Takes like 15 pounds off the crank.
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Welp things have really escalated lol
(https://i.imgur.com/D0Be92W.jpg)
I’m not a certified mechanic but that doesn’t look like a radiator?
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Welp things have really escalated lol
https://i.imgur.com/D0Be92W.jpg
I’m not a certified mechanic but that doesn’t look like a radiator?
Yeah...quarantine has me losing my mind lol.
Apparently Samberg changed the cooling fans he used part way through production...so I bought some new ones that were curved blade and higher flowing that were listed as compatible and didn't think to check the specs in detail. They're freaking 38A per fan and almost 2 inches thicker. Waiting on a more equivalent fan to show up that also works with the new mounting on the shroud and only draws 18A like the old fans.
I had a V2 rad kit with a V3 top. I guess the V3 had different fans. Just another $300 spent on fans lol fun times.
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That RPS clutch is no joke. I'd love to have one but just a pipe dream. Until my LT1-S lets go my pocket book is safe.
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That RPS clutch is no joke. I'd love to have one but just a pipe dream. Until my LT1-S lets go my pocket book is safe.
Yeah I found someone selling a used 500 mile unit that I'm hoping works well. It was too good a deal to pass up. The story is they didn't like it because it was too aggressive for them noise/performance wise.
I like the LT1S clutch a lot, but it wasn't as light as I imagined. I want something really snappy. I'll be keeping the LT1S on the shelf in case I ever de-mod a bit or if I build another 6 speed car. It is the best clutch I've had despite a vibration when lugging a higher gear. I just drive around that issue and it works great.
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Not to freak you out, but I think your transmission fell off.
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Not to freak you out, but I think your transmission fell off.
Hahaha I am mildly freaked out because now I have to get it back in the car. The damn thing got so stuck on the way out I really didn't think I was going to be able to get it free. The firewall is going to be getting some love before it goes back in and I'm going to grind on the bellhousing a bit too I think. My freaking shoulder feels like someone tried to rip my arm off yesterday lol.
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Not to freak you out, but I think your transmission fell off.
Hahaha I am mildly freaked out because now I have to get it back in the car. The damn thing got so stuck on the way out I really didn't think I was going to be able to get it free. The firewall is going to be getting some love before it goes back in and I'm going to grind on the bellhousing a bit too I think. My freaking shoulder feels like someone tried to rip my arm off yesterday lol.
Mine got caught on the passenger side body mount for the stock cross brace. It is the mount that Hinson use to use for his trans mount. Neither side exists on my car after that. you might want to think about removing that if you haven’t already. It might have been what you got hung-up on.
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Hahaha I am mildly freaked out because now I have to get it back in the car. The damn thing got so stuck on the way out I really didn't think I was going to be able to get it free. The firewall is going to be getting some love before it goes back in and I'm going to grind on the bellhousing a bit too I think. My freaking shoulder feels like someone tried to rip my arm off yesterday lol.
I have a Harbor Freight transmission floor jack if you want it. It is what I used to do my trans. Getting it up into place was slow and steady, but pretty effortless. Once I had it up there at the right angle I just rolled it forward and was able to start the bolts.
(https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/1/61232_W3.jpg)
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Thanks a bunch man I really appreciate it. My dad has the same one I’ve used it before. When I get the clutch I’ll grab it.
My issue was kind of strange. I wasn’t able to slide the trans out far enough due to the bellhousing hitting the firewall. Definitely did not have this issue last time. I find it easier to get to the bellhousing bolts at the engine than taking it off at the trans. I’ll probably put it back in separately this time though.
Typically I’ve seen the engine falls backward when the trans is lowered, but I had the rear of it supported by a height adjustable stool lol and the bellhousing supported by a floor jack. When I slid the trans off the dowel pins the engine actually stayed flat or actually tipped forward a hair. It wasn’t pretty but a lot of prying and kind of using the weight of the trans I was able to drag it out.
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One thing that helped me a lot when installed the trans with a twin disk - use a digital angle gauge and make sure the engine block and trans are at the same angle. I measured off of one of the machined flat spots near the oil pan and also the machined flat near the trans mount. Getting the trans and engine aligned eliminates a lot of the headache.
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In the FC it was easier taking the trans off the bell housing. You just need universal sockets and long extensions. My ratchet was by the shifter taking the trans bolts out of the bellhousing.
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I think I’ll put the bellhousing on first this time. I’ve been using a wobble and a 2ft extension. Luckily the bellhousing bolts aren’t super tight they break loose easy. I had a seized exhaust bolt and stripped the shit out of it. I now own a MAPP torch and a die grinder lol.
Great advice on the digital level. I’ll steal that trick too. The trans jack let’s you adjust the angle and height. I also struggled to install it but I think it’s because I had pressure in the slave.
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Yea I was nervous about putting it back in too, but it went really smooth. I was able to get it out just by pulling the driver side header. I ended up putting ARP exhaust bolts back in.
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Damn Daniel, you've been busy!
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Damn Daniel, you've been busy!
Hah, nothing compared to you man!
I’m happy as hell with my garage, especially getting to put it to use, but I’m still a little bummed I wasn’t ready to buy when you were selling your place.
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I the RPS BC2 clutch is amazing except at 1800 and 3600 rpm. Ruins the effect of the car unless you drive around those RPMs. I was hoping a $3500 clutch would be noise free. That said between that and the magnum the car is amazing to drive fast. It’s only when I’m not driving aggressive that I notice the vibration through the car. Some nice upgrades!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Vibration or rattle? Your clutch assembly needs to be balanced better. 1800 and 3600 are first and third order harmonics. I'd bet it vibrates at 5200 as well but it would be far weaker than the other two. I had one of the first LT1-S from Monster and they messed up the machining of the locator pins and the pressure plate was off center by .050". The vibration at 1800 was quite bad.
As a not that vibration is not good for the main bearings.
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Vibration or rattle? Your clutch assembly needs to be balanced better. 1800 and 3600 are first and third order harmonics. I'd bet it vibrates at 5200 as well but it would be far weaker than the other two. I had one of the first LT1-S from Monster and they messed up the machining of the locator pins and the pressure plate was off center by .050". The vibration at 1800 was quite bad.
As a not that vibration is not good for the main bearings.
My LT1S does the same as Kinger’s RPS at 1800 rpm. It shakes the whole car. And yes clutch vibration can be hell on the rear mains.
I just drove around it, but I have 3.90’s so the shorter gearing makes it a bit easier to do. At 3600 mine is fine because I can’t lug it in 4th at 3600 lol too much beans at that point.
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Super weird that many people are having issues. I had my whole clutch balanced as a unit by a machine shop and it's been awesome ever since.
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Got a lot done today! Waiting on a few parts for the trans, but have a lot I can get done in the meantime. I'll clean up and bust the trans apart so I can inspect the reverse gear assembly. I'm hoping it was just a shifter issue, but I'm prepared to pull reverse if I have to I guess.
Figured out my cooling fan situation. Very pleased with this...saving a boatload on new fans that can now go back to Amazon.
(https://i.imgur.com/gCCP7n6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YUVk69j.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qVNx5LP.jpg)
My girl has been helping me a ton. She gave me shit the other day that she doesn't get to do any of the fun stuff, so she basically did all the work on getting the trans ready to pull, and then did all the wrenching to swap clutches today. I barely spent any time under the car today lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cw5IPc9.jpg)
I'll be hanging onto the LT1-S. It really is a fantastic clutch. It'll either make its way back into this car, or into something else in the future I'm sure. It looks great coming out, and I was not easy on it.
Out with the old 50 pound unit
(https://i.imgur.com/mHkmWC2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Gt9pLtz.jpg)
In with the new 31 pound carbon carbon hotness
(https://i.imgur.com/MAuXGxM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ql4lX2p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LaDmCEL.jpg)
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Oh yeah and last thing I did for the night is measure the air gap for the clutch and I'm right mid-range with all stock stuff. I've never had to shim a clutch before. Honestly never measured for it until today. Lucky? I've read so many people having trouble with shimming the heights properly and my stuff just seems to go together as is..
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Right on man! That is awesome your girl wanted to help out, my wife someday may be up to that......maybe after her hatred for the FC finally subsides. :rolleyes:
What have you read about the engagement on that particular clutch?
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Let’s go for a drive when you get the car all back together.
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Let’s go for a drive when you get the car all back together.
Yes definitely! ACH is what broke it lol so I'm looking for redemption. My buddy just went up today and said there were a ton of cyclists, cops and slow drivers, but he got up late.
Right on man! That is awesome your girl wanted to help out, my wife someday may be up to that......maybe after her hatred for the FC finally subsides. :rolleyes:
What have you read about the engagement on that particular clutch?
Yeah she's always been excited to jump in and wrench, and has more motivation and energy than I do so that helps too haha.
The clutch is supposed to have the ability to slip like a normal friction, but takes heat and abuse like none other. We'll see. I expect it to be a bit like how everyone says every single aftermarket cam drives "like stock". Unless it is a stock cam, it isn't going to drive like stock lol. I'm on the extreme end of tolerant of bullshit in this car so long as it serves a purpose. My diff whining makes me want to park on train tracks, but I ponder what life would be like with a faceplated trans...one is a flaw, the other is a feature haha
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Clutch talk is the automotive equivalent of talking politics or religion...
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Wish I could get my wife under the car. :o
You're gal sounds like a keeper, and she's cute too. :wave:
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My experience is it doesn’t slip like a stock clutch. The pedal pressure is light but that’s about it. I had to learn to drive a stick all over again killing it on first drive lol.
It’s definitely a drivers clutch. I wished I would have done something less aggressive but I’m not yanking the trans again. I’m also on the picky side of wanting a full on mod car to be like a OEM car. So don’t listen to me if you pound the car and drive it aggressively in those canyons you have out there. I think this is the clutch to have in that application. It is SUPER fun to drive with the satisfying click of the gears with seemingly no effort on the Magnum.
Enjoy!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Did you get the steel, lightened steel, or aluminum flywheel? Mine is the full weight steel. If I bought it new I'd probably put the aluminum in just to be a masochist lol.
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Mine is mamofied and uses the lightweight steel version. Was 25lbs or something like that.
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I will swap you one for one. My LT1S for yours. I'll even do the work. :-p
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(https://i.imgur.com/ud5ndkx.jpg)
Completely blown away. These fell off the UPS truck today and I was not responsible. I'll just reiterate that I'm a very lucky person.
Weds TC105X's 18x9.5 square. I have a fresh set of 275/35/18 Maxxis RC1's on the way now to mount up. Can't wait to get this thing on the ground! Need to get busy busting a transmission apart now so I'm not holding up the show lol
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Nice.. that shits gonna work.
The 275 RC1s are huge.. I run them on a 10.5 wheel and they aren’t even stretched :)
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I made my choice based on section width...we’ll see haha. The 255/40/17’s are 10.5 section on a 9”. This will be 11.2 section on a 9.5.
Have you tried their new R2 compound? My 17’s are 2 years old and the old compound.
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I made my choice based on section width...we’ll see haha. The 255/40/17’s are 10.5 section on a 9”. This will be 11.2 section on a 9.5.
Have you tried their new R2 compound? My 17’s are 2 years old and the old compound.
I ran my first set of 275s on a 9.5. I went to 10.5 wheels for the 2nd set.
I need to buy a new set. ALL the R1 compound tires in 275/35/17 were made in 2014. I was holding off on buying more for that reason. I was worried they were going to discontinue that size, but thankfully they made some more in the new compound.
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I made my choice based on section width...we’ll see haha. The 255/40/17’s are 10.5 section on a 9”. This will be 11.2 section on a 9.5.
Have you tried their new R2 compound? My 17’s are 2 years old and the old compound.
I ran my first set of 275s on a 9.5. I went to 10.5 wheels for the 2nd set.
I need to buy a new set. ALL the R1 compound tires in 275/35/17 were made in 2014. I was holding off on buying more for that reason. I was worried they were going to discontinue that size, but thankfully they made some more in the new compound.
I was having the same worry! When I saw they had an R2 compound they only had it in the 255/40/17 size, but none of the others. I figured that meant everything else was old, but I also started to worry that they were going to disco the tire. I love these things lol.
The price was way cheaper on the 275/35/18's than I remember seeing in the R1's too! They were $999 for four and I remember them being much higher, like 350 a tire.
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What offset are you wheels. Most people say that 275/35 is too tall for the front. But I’ve definitely seen others run it.
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I have some extra motivation now to get this shit back together...I want to see it on these new wheels!
Got the trans busted apart and put back together last night. Just waiting on the shifter to show up today and then it can get shoved back in the car.
(https://i.imgur.com/1hnbz6S.jpg)
Tick is having a fire sale on rear extension housings. Instead of swapping the seal and driveshaft bushing on mine, for not much more I started with a brand new housing with 0 miles. Made the swap easier, and hopefully fool proof on getting the thing sealed up.
(https://i.imgur.com/xx5NaUe.jpg)
I checked out the reverse syncro and everything appears fine. My reverse popping out issue must have been an issue with the shifter and not the trans itself. That is far and away the better of the two outcomes lol. Also, I think I found why my shifter was leaking...
(https://i.imgur.com/0wZl3Ie.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0M2bGaq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LNlRSWb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uy0R0hk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nWNtQw0.jpg)
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What offset are you wheels. Most people say that 275/35 is too tall for the front. But I’ve definitely seen others run it.
I've seen people running 275's, and even 295/30's up front on stock fenders. The Maxxis run a little short they're only 25.4" tall. I've seen some 275/35's that are 25.7". I was torn between 265 and 275, but I want to give 275 square a shot. I'd rather keep a square setup. The tallest tire I've ever had was 25" so I'm curious how it all fits.
The wheels are 18x9.5 +45". I'll run my 12mm spacer in the back still, and the front should be real aggressive with the 275's. My fenders are rolled, and the rear lips are cut down for more clearance.
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I made my choice based on section width...we’ll see haha. The 255/40/17’s are 10.5 section on a 9”. This will be 11.2 section on a 9.5.
Have you tried their new R2 compound? My 17’s are 2 years old and the old compound.
I ran my first set of 275s on a 9.5. I went to 10.5 wheels for the 2nd set.
Yea they dropped the prices back down to what they were when they came out. My 275s are $200/tire, which is a great deal.
I need to buy a new set. ALL the R1 compound tires in 275/35/17 were made in 2014. I was holding off on buying more for that reason. I was worried they were going to discontinue that size, but thankfully they made some more in the new compound.
I was having the same worry! When I saw they had an R2 compound they only had it in the 255/40/17 size, but none of the others. I figured that meant everything else was old, but I also started to worry that they were going to disco the tire. I love these things lol.
The price was way cheaper on the 275/35/18's than I remember seeing in the R1's too! They were $999 for four and I remember them being much higher, like 350 a tire.
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Got a ton done over the weekend. Worked until about 12:30 last night getting stuff thrown back together. I splurged on the Sikky shifter. I've seen mostly good feedback, and after so much frustration with my old shifter I'm trying to do it "right" and hopefully not have issues again. As I was putting everything together I kind of had a moment where I thought about how "right" I've been doing things, and still just perpetually redoing the same shit over and over...so I hope I'm not disappointed by this thing. I might have to go back to buying used parts and spending less money if it is all just going to break anyways lol.
The moment of self pity was when I was laying under the car bolting the exhaust up, I found the rear of the car covered in thick grease. Turns out my axle boot has recently split and it is throwing axle grease out everywhere. I have had relentless issues with the multiple 8.8 setups in the car since I made the swap. I really wish I had kept the mazda diff truly. I loved the engagement of the T2 diff, and the rear end itself was quiet other than the noisy diff mount. Could have added some more isolation there and been happy I think. I even prefer the short gearing I have 3.90's in the car now.
It isn't a major issue, and could be easily fixed with a new boot from vatozone, but just frustrating to be on the home stretch and sent back to tear things apart again. Once I get it running in the next few days I'll be taking it up to my dad's to use the lift and the press. Months ago I picked up some clearance DSS pro level axles for Cobra diffs which have the Porsche CV's. I guess they didn't realize with a $20 seal swap you can use cobra stubs in an explorer housing. Should be a nice refinement for the car vs the sloppy Ford tri-pods. Another LS7 swap component I can throw on early I guess.
Construction of the Sikky shifter is obviously very pretty, and it is a neat trick how they keep the shift lever in plane even though it is offset. It just better not leak or have any performance issues or I'm ripping the bitch out and using one of the stock magnum shifters.
I did get myself into a bit of a frustrating situation lol...started out not on the trans jack, but rather the trusty barstool and floor jack method I used to drop the trans. Turns out the Sikky shifter lever hits the floor on the way up. Had to cut and bash the floor down a little bit, but Matt's shifter plate still seals just fine. However, when it was balancing on the jack and got stuck on the floor it tilted the trans too far nose up and I started showering in gear oil, which by the way - Tremec now sells their own syncromesh manual transmission fluid. I'll be trying that out instead of the Redline D4 that I had in it. Trans fluid is I think the most expensive liquid I put in the car so it is always nice to be showering in it under the car.
(https://i.imgur.com/W14pCQZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ERCTfUf.jpg)
As a round 2, and with the driveshaft yoke in the rear of the trans, it went in very easily with the trans jack. This thing is badass I hadn't used it before.
(https://i.imgur.com/EPvqRP4.jpg)
You can see the section I had to cut for clearance. I bashed it a lot before cutting it, but still barely didn't have enough room. Wound up buying a sawzall over the weekend and made short work of it.
(https://i.imgur.com/c4Gl18G.png)
I'm finally retiring Mattster's prototype MGW shifter plate cover. This was one of the first if not the first units he made for the MGW shifter way back in the day. He got a new one out to me in only a couple days for the Sikky, and it fits great and seals very nicely.
(https://i.imgur.com/Mw2cihu.jpg)
So, really in the home stretch now. Need to bleed the clutch slave, install the radiator and fill it, hook the battery up, and then flash in a new calibration for the LS3 MAF and the coil packs. Should only need 1 or 2 more short nights of wrenching on it.
I want to vaporize my old tires in a massive burnout, but they're also in really good shape...not sure if I want to sell them, hold onto them to use at an event, or light them off lol. The tires are 2 years old, but still work well and have a ton of tread. No camber wear either they're wearing evenly. Most of the value is probably in the wheels, and even that isn't huge, but if I could get like 800-900 out of them that'd be nice.
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Yuk. I usually drain my transmission before i drop it, just to avoid the potential mess.
I do have a set of tailshaft plugs that work pretty well for most applications.
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Yuk. I usually drain my transmission before i drop it, just to avoid the potential mess.
I do have a set of tailshaft plugs that work pretty well for most applications.
Yeah the choice is either glue the shifter on outside the car and make it pretty, or get the trans mostly in the car and try to silicone it on through the shifter hole. You can't R&R the shifter on a magnum with the trans fully installed. I thought I'd be able to keep it level enough haha it proved me wrong. Good news is I still have more fluid in it than I did before with all the leaks I had. Filling a t56 from the top is a much nicer experience than through the plug in the side in my opinion.
I'm having to build up my own collection of random crap now that I'm working out of my own garage and not my dad's with 40+ years of collecting useful junk haha. I need either an old yoke or one of the plugs. They come in very handy lol.
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Yuk. I usually drain my transmission before i drop it, just to avoid the potential mess.
I do have a set of tailshaft plugs that work pretty well for most applications.
Yeah the choice is either glue the shifter on outside the car and make it pretty, or get the trans mostly in the car and try to silicone it on through the shifter hole. You can't R&R the shifter on a magnum with the trans fully installed. I thought I'd be able to keep it level enough haha it proved me wrong. Good news is I still have more fluid in it than I did before with all the leaks I had. Filling a t56 from the top is a much nicer experience than through the plug in the side in my opinion.
I'm having to build up my own collection of random crap now that I'm working out of my own garage and not my dad's with 40+ years of collecting useful junk haha. I need either an old yoke or one of the plugs. They come in very handy lol.
I bought an assortment of plastic plugs that fit several yoke sizes. IIRC it was under $20.
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Shiiiiit. You should have got a shifter gasket. It makes life a bit easier when installing the shifter, you can do it after you get the trans in the hole with limited access.
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Shiiiiit. You should have got a shifter gasket. It makes life a bit easier when installing the shifter, you can do it after you get the trans in the hole with limited access.
Had no idea those exist lol. Why doesn’t tremec use that stock?
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Shiiiiit. You should have got a shifter gasket. It makes life a bit easier when installing the shifter, you can do it after you get the trans in the hole with limited access.
Had no idea those exist lol. Why doesn’t tremec use that stock?
Exactly! This is a game changer for next time I pull my shifter.
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I wasn't able to find a shifter gasket for the 6-bolt Magnum shifter, so I made my own. I bought a 1/16" 12"x12" sheet of silicone sheet from amazon and traced the stock shifter out. Using hole punches makes it a lot easier than trying to cut a bunch of small holes with a razor.
Also, I believe the Magnum uses a Ford C6-style output shaft. You should be able to find used or even new yokes for cheap to use as a plug. I'm using the Inland Empire bolt-together rear yoke. It's a nice piece and allows you to unbolt the driveshaft, but leave the yoke in the tailhousing. It's not cheap, but it does make removing the driveshaft way easy.
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That IE driveline yoke is probably the highest quality piece on my entire car. :bacon:
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So I took the car for a shakedown late yesterday. Everything worked with the new coils, radiator seems to be crankin' and it holds pressure great. Longer pushrods seem to work. I must say, for the amount of crap I've done to this thing I'm quite happy that it seems like I at least screwed it back together properly lol.
I have a lot of laptop time in my future dialing in the new MAF sensor which I'm not super excited about. Funny how as you get older some hobbies start becoming chores. I used to love living in HPTuners on my cars. I cludged a tune together using the MAF curve from one of my old LS7 MAF attempts and my STFT's were off 25-45% lol. I'm going to check my fuel pressure and do some light tuning and then cruise the car up to my dad's to put the new axles in, and maybe take a stab at putting my 1 7/8" headers on finally :yay: Don't want to put too much tuning effort in until I know if that is happening or not.
The latest version Samberg shroud is different YET AGAIN...so I can't use my nice powdercoated unit, and it makes the intake not fit in the damn car either. It raises the filter like 3/4-1" from where the old one was. The shroud and rad fit the car better, but it doesn't fit well under the hood. I think I could have figured out the hood clearance part, but the angle wasn't compatible with my nifty new angled TB spacer...sooo out of frustration I've just thrown it together for now. I recall years ago someone built a mount that holds the filter under the shroud...maybe that's the play. The LS7 will have a different intake obviously, so I'll probably just run this until the next time the manifold is off, or the new engine goes in.
Seems to throw some mighty quick revs with the 30 pound clutch. Excited to drive it hard. Oh, and it stayed in reverse when I backed it up! I guess the shifter was at fault all along. I can't say it is love at first shift with the Sikky unit. Part of it is the high price, and part is the long throw. It feels like it gets a little stuck in gear so it makes driving soft feel like a chore. The old shifter was more direct and just clicked in and out of gear very precise. More effort + longer throw + more play (I think just internal slop amplified by the longer throw) is moving in the wrong direction.
Engagement of the RPS is goofy. It is way up at the top of the pedal, which with my seating position basically puts my knee in my chest. I got it to slip about 2 out of 10 take-offs. If you don't get it just right the thing is on/off. No issues with the mass in either the tune returning to idle or driving it away from a stop. 30 pounds is more than enough rotating mass. Hill starts are tricky when you can't find the bite point and then the bite point is as thin as a c-hair lol.
I need to get the car tuned and start wailing on it to get a real impressing of everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTaP4fGJpAg
(https://i.imgur.com/SfvPxck.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a2W7STB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oUr0UGp.png)
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Tuning the MAF isn't THAT bad. Just use a histogram to get it close in HPTuners. Within 5-10% down low. Up top the histogram will get you within a % or two. Down low you'll have to do it manually but go slow. Very small increments. It's not nearly as linear as the VE table.
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Tuning the MAF isn't THAT bad. Just use a histogram to get it close in HPTuners. Within 5-10% down low. Up top the histogram will get you within a % or two. Down low you'll have to do it manually but go slow. Very small increments. It's not nearly as linear as the VE table.
Yeah the VE table is going to be close enough to my old setup. All I changed was the intake tube, and I'm running primarily off the MAF. I got the VE table sexy before it is nice and smoothed. The car ran really good SD, it just had some nagging bugs in SD only due to the E40 ecu and HPTuners.
I have swapped computers a bunch of times but I was smart enough to throw my old histograms and configs in my dropbox years ago so easy enough to jump back in. Just need to flash in an OL cal and get to it. Should only take a few iterations to clean up the MAF, and then a few WOT pulls. I'll try and spend an hour on it tonight so I can actually get some driving impressions. I also want to crank up the dwell on the coils and see if anything changes.
I found MAF vs STFT was actually the ticket for really dialing it in tightly once you get it close with the O2.
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Those coils can handle a LOT of dwell but the current can peak at something like 19A each at 10ms. Being N/A and not on methanol I highly doubt you'll see any benefit above 4.5-5ms. You'd be able to run a bigger spark gap which in turn speeds up the flame front and can then run less timing advance.
After I swapped to LS3 coils on my LS7 I ended up with some knock. Pulling timing did the same thing as closing the gap to .032". Oddly enough this is pretty common in the LS7 world to reduce knock.
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LS7 stuff I see running much less timing than LS3, like as low as 20-24*. I've been as high as 31* on mine and it made power on the dyno there. The strokers in our drag car like 28-30* also for best power. I've got mine backed off to 27* right now until I can get the tune done, then I'll crank up the dwell and see if it likes it.
I wired in some fat wiring harnesses and dedicated 75A relay for the coils. I have the plugs gapped up at .055-.060 right now. Going to crank them to 6-8mS dwell. There is some power to be gained supposedly from having a long spark duration, which these can do a continuous spark basically for the entire combustion, but mainly for cleaning up idle and part throttle when I move to a huge cam in the LS7. It is massively overkill and unnecessary but it was fun lol.
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Nice work man, things definitely revs snappy.
I totally feel you when it comes to tuning being a chore! I still enjoy it but it's no longer new and exciting and I think because you know how long it takes to dial it in perfect that is the disheartening part of it.
So this is how I tune the MAF and have found it to be the most effective and efficient way to get those cells to +/- 2%
I use a histogram that uses my wideband AFR error percentage VS commanded AFR. I can send it to you if you want it.
1) get those off idle cells dialed in from a stop in 2nd gear (2800 hertz to 3400 hertz). Save data.
2) Get on a highway or bypass and in 4th gear roll from about 30mph to about 70 mph slowly and increases the throttle gradually(usually up to 60% tps). Save data.
The goal is to dial in all the MAF cells from 3800 hertz to 7000 hertz. No need to go any higher then 7000 hertz.
3) To dial in the rest of the MAF cells from 7000 hertz and up will be full throttle pulls.
Get in 4th gear and once you get to 2000 rpm start logging and hit it! Hit your spacebar key on your laptop right at redline so you dont get erroneous data on some of the cells during decel.
Pull over, look at the log, ignore any of the cells below 7500 hertz and repeat. Hopefully you have real time tuning for your tune...makes it so much faster then having to shutdown, rewrite calibration and restart.
With this process, it only took me an hour to dial in my MAF with my FAST manifold swap a couple weeks ago.
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"Get in 4th gear and once you get to 2000 rpm start logging and hit it! Hit your spacebar key on your laptop right at redline so you dont get erroneous data on some of the cells during decel. "
Those of us NOT in Montana have a tough time doing that. :poke:
For me, redline in 4th is around 160mph.
Not many places around here that I can "hit the spacebar" at that speed. :banghead:
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Haha if your fourth is that long you can use third. You want a pull to be free of any traction issues and slow enough of a pull to get good data. I’m at 130 in 4th.
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Lol...yeah Cobranut, I get it. I am spoiled by the numerous vacant highways up here in the Big Sky but I hit 120mph in 4th gear so it's not crazy fast or anything.
Third gear is definitely your WOT tuning gear :drive:
I also forgot to mention that my full throttle tuning is performed on a road that is a decent grade uphill. I try to put as much load on the car as possible. Lots of hills up here in Montana ;)
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Yep. Third will often blow off the tires, and the revs build so quickly that it doesn't stay in a cell long enough to get meaningful data.
The only street tuning I can do is part throttle and drivability stuff.
Once I get that sorted out it's going back on a dyno for power tuning. 😃
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Murray do you disable dynamic air when you’re doing the maf or leave it enabled?
I’m not close enough in fueling to do your method yet. Where I used to live had some huge hills I could motor up from 2k it was great.
I thought I had an old tune picked out with a dialed in MAF curve for the ls7 maf but man it was so far off. It was like 30% lean initially. I’m too far off to do long pulls still but I’m getting closer. Some areas are still trending 16:1 lean.
I did get into PE once or twice just to see if it’s closer and the initial tip in is good, but lean after that too. It sure feels lively it is very responsive and snappy. When it’s actually dialed in I think the car is going to feel great with the tuneup it just got.
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Yeah I disable dynamic air.
You know if your off quite a bit and your logs show it is around the same % off globally you could always just take your MAF curve and multiply it by that or half.
I was showing 8 to 12% lean all over on my MAF last month so I just multiplied it by 1.10 and that got me pretty close. Didn't take too long to dial in after that. I always hand tweak my curve too (not the smooth feature..i actually click peaks and valleys and line them up accordingly) until I get the curve my engine likes. Obviously once it is tuned within 2% the MAF has a little wiggle to it but I have seen that with many setups I have tuned with cam/headers/ect. Never as smooth as the OEM curve once tuned correctly.
Anyway always good practice to get the tune initially too rich so you don't have to stress about running dangerously too lean under load when working with a tune that is that far off from the start.
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How did you do the LS7 MAF curve from a start? I have a vette intake with LS3 MAF so I was able to just take the stock LS3 MAF curve and re-interpolate to the E40 LS2 frequency break points. Didn't really have to change too much after that.
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How did you do the LS7 MAF curve from a start? I have a vette intake with LS3 MAF so I was able to just take the stock LS3 MAF curve and re-interpolate to the E40 LS2 frequency break points. Didn't really have to change too much after that.
It’s not my first go round with the ls7 maf so I copied from one of my old tunes from 4-5 years ago.
I’m on hold for a few days waiting for some clutch pedal parts to come in. Dove under the dash to adjust the pedal height and found a couple issues that needed addressing. The tune should clean up very quick once I get back out.
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Lol sometimes I laugh at some of the stupid updates I've made you guys look at when everyone is expecting an ls7 update or a burnout video, but this is what I've been working on.
I wanted to adjust my clutch rod because the pedal was taking up way up at the top, and with the new light clutch it was really hard to drive smooth. It turned into a bit of an ordeal. Turns out some jackass (me) cross threaded the fuck out of the clevis last time, and the threads were jacked beyond repair. Mazda being Mazda of course decided to be weird and make it a fine thread 8mmx1 which doesn't match any of my 8x1.25 taps. There are also no clevises available in the country anymore from Mazda.
I also found that the clevis pin had its way with the clutch pedal arm. The bushing was blown out, and it was elongated like 1/4" with no end in sight. I ordered a 3/4" by 1/4" spacer from McMaster and went to town with my harbor freight unibit lol. Precision.
I drilled out the clevis to the correct diameter for a helicoil if plan A didn't work out, but I think this is going to work well. It's just a slip fit through the clevis, but it is captured through the full travel of the pedal. The clutch takes up just off the floor now and feels way better.
(https://i.imgur.com/TqVh9df.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4WLUAD1.jpg)
Another one of the weekend projects was to finally put sliders on the Tillett. I still love the seat so I figured I should make it a bit more permanent. Now people big and small can drive the car again :)
(https://i.imgur.com/6HYb0WR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qkj3j7Q.png)
And lastly, big news from yesterday, picked up a new "family car." The damn dog is 50 pounds now and won't stop growing lmao. Traded in the M235i as it was running out of CPO warranty, and BMW was refusing to diagnose an electronic damper issue without money up front in case it wasn't covered. I was looking at minimum $2000 if they didn't cover the eventual issue on a car I wanted to trade-in anyways. Mercedes matched their top dollar trade in estimate and I didn't have to fix it..sooooo now we have a sweet car that we both can drive, and the dog fits in the back.
It is a 2018 certified GLA 45, 375 hp 7 speed dual clutch AWD that absolutely rips. They call it an SUV, but ride height is lower than most sedans and it runs mid 12's stock. Way higher performance all around than the 235 was. It is my first time ever driving an AWD car, and first Merc I've driven too. It gets ragged on in reviews for not being well appointed or as luxury inside as other AMG's, but it suits us better anyway. All go and limited electronic fluff to break in the future.
We now have another fun car so we can both participate in Canyon drives, and whatever track events we want to attend which I'm super excited about.
(https://i.imgur.com/fdIzMLa.jpg?1)
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;)
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I need to add a roller blade ball bearing to my clutch pedal as well, there is no bushing in there and its metal on metal that I keep lubricated with white lithium grease twice yearly. Looks like a nice fix!
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The ball bearing is a good idea! 8mm x 19mm x 6mm is a standard size too. The steel race should have no wear issues. I expect this aluminum spacer will start showing wear eventually too like the pedal did.
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The classic Mustang guys do that ball bearing swap on the clutch pedals because they wear the clevis out. Good idea for sure!
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;)
Someone wants their photo cred :p
The pic Shirley posted is one of the YouTube comments from the /tuned video my car was in lol
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Lol sometimes I laugh at some of the stupid updates I've made you guys look at when everyone is expecting an ls7 update or a burnout video, but this is what I've been working on.
I wanted to adjust my clutch rod because the pedal was taking up way up at the top, and with the new light clutch it was really hard to drive smooth. It turned into a bit of an ordeal. Turns out some jackass (me) cross threaded the fuck out of the clevis last time, and the threads were jacked beyond repair. Mazda being Mazda of course decided to be weird and make it a fine thread 8mmx1 which doesn't match any of my 8x1.25 taps. There are also no clevises available in the country anymore from Mazda.
I also found that the clevis pin had its way with the clutch pedal arm. The bushing was blown out, and it was elongated like 1/4" with no end in sight. I ordered a 3/4" by 1/4" spacer from McMaster and went to town with my harbor freight unibit lol. Precision.
I drilled out the clevis to the correct diameter for a helicoil if plan A didn't work out, but I think this is going to work well. It's just a slip fit through the clevis, but it is captured through the full travel of the pedal. The clutch takes up just off the floor now and feels way better.
(https://i.imgur.com/TqVh9df.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4WLUAD1.jpg)
Another one of the weekend projects was to finally put sliders on the Tillett. I still love the seat so I figured I should make it a bit more permanent. Now people big and small can drive the car again :)
(https://i.imgur.com/6HYb0WR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qkj3j7Q.png)
And lastly, big news from yesterday, picked up a new "family car." The damn dog is 50 pounds now and won't stop growing lmao. Traded in the M235i as it was running out of CPO warranty, and BMW was refusing to diagnose an electronic damper issue without money up front in case it wasn't covered. I was looking at minimum $2000 if they didn't cover the eventual issue on a car I wanted to trade-in anyways. Mercedes matched their top dollar trade in estimate and I didn't have to fix it..sooooo now we have a sweet car that we both can drive, and the dog fits in the back.
It is a 2018 certified GLA 45, 375 hp 7 speed dual clutch AWD that absolutely rips. They call it an SUV, but ride height is lower than most sedans and it runs mid 12's stock. Way higher performance all around than the 235 was. It is my first time ever driving an AWD car, and first Merc I've driven too. It gets ragged on in reviews for not being well appointed or as luxury inside as other AMG's, but it suits us better anyway. All go and limited electronic fluff to break in the future.
We now have another fun car so we can both participate in Canyon drives, and whatever track events we want to attend which I'm super excited about.
(https://i.imgur.com/fdIzMLa.jpg?1)
I like that seat, and the seat cover looks great too. :poke: ;)
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(https://i.imgur.com/l5tPHty.png)
Yeyaaaaaa this thing rips. It is running real nice. The LS7 maf is working great with the honeycomb. I'm really surprised but I'm still getting all the way down to 95kPA from 100kPA ambient even after removing the small GTO MAF and touching up a few other things. I just can't feed this thing enough air. I guess it really needs a bigger TB.
I bumped the dwell to 6mS and honestly think it slowed down a hair and I noticed some small KR events. I'm either going to set it back to stock or take 1-2 degrees of timing out and try again. I'm seeing real good MAF and cyl air numbers, but I'm a little over-fueled still so they'd come down. Not going to put any more work into the tune until after the headers are on it. I think I'm actually going to pursue getting a professional tune done, and at the least get some fresh dyno pulls done.
This clutch is AWESOME. Driveability is easy now that the clutch takes up lower. The car feels snappier and I feel like it is faster in total from everything that was done, but it has also been a minute since I've wheeled anything fast. It rows gears so easy sometimes I question if it even went into gear. There is much less load on the syncros with such a light clutch. I find it very easy to drive smooth, but the window for error is a little tighter.
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Your TPS is off or your not getting a fully open blade. I think the TPS it throwing off your cylinder airmass calculation. It should be higher than. 83g/cyl. My LS1 did .88g at WOT.
Can you do a log of a longer pull in one gear? Your MAP seem a little too consistent. If the is a restriction you'll see 100kPa at lower RPM and then taper to 95.
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The LS2 DBW blades are 88% at full throttle that is normal.
I did one uphill 4th gear pull from 2000 rpm up to almost 5000 rpm. MAP started out at 100.5 and dropped to 98. Above 6000 it drops some more to 95-97 kPa range.
At 7000 rpm I'm wayyyyy past the torque curve on this thing which is why it is down at .83 g/cyl. I tune it out to the 7200 limiter, but this thing is all done by 6500. It is only a 226 intake lobe on a 402" engine which is probably the same size as your LS1 had haha.
It is hitting .98-1.03 g/cyl in the midrange.
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You aren't far off. Mine was a 225/227+114. Carried all the way to 7k and didn't drop off at all but still had really good low end. Spent a lot of time with Tony Mamo making sure the valve train was on point.
Was your peak torque around 5.7k? Guessing off injector duty cycle. If so, it's odd that it's rolling over only 1k later. What intake? Stock LS3?
That does sound like a restriction then. Is the MAP at the back or the front of the manifold. The front will generally read 2-3kPa higher than the front.
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MAP is up in the front.
Compared to your LS1 I'm a 226/242 on 117 cam with ~15% more displacement and a 4" stroke vs 3.622 all heavily working against me carrying power up top. To spin 7000 and actually make power in a 402 I'd need more like a 236-242 intake lobe and the LS7 is getting a 258 solid roller lobe so I can get up to 7500+.
Peak torque way back when I dyno'd it originally was flat from 4600-5100. Peak power was flat from 5800-6100. Power dropped from 468 to 450 by 6500, and fell harder above 6500. The setup for those dyno numbers was 100% stock ls3 heads and intake, and 2.25" outlet log style exhaust manifolds into dual 2.5" to the bumper. 4.10 gears through the mazda diff. All things considered, it really isn't bad. It isn't the dream motor anymore, but it has lived up to over 20,000 miles of abuse and would probably keep going another 20 if I wasn't building the ls7.
It definitely draws a lot of criticism on the web for not being a dyno hero, but it does a lot better than the numbers make it sound. It offers a ton of usable power while keeping a high level of stealth and civility for California driving.
Since that dyno day, I added kooks green cats, put a "rod mod" ls3 intake on it, and now I've tweaked a few other things recently on the engine. The car now has 3.90 gears in a Ford 8.8 so I don't know how that'll affect it either.
Throwing the headers on, taking the cats off and getting back on the dyno is going to be real exciting. It never ran nearly as hard after putting cats on it, and longtubes should really help it breathe. I'm keeping the dual 2.5" for now using a cone reducer to go from the 3" collector to the 2.5" x-pipe. The LS7 will need dual 3" and that is a problem for another day.
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That's quite the split on the cam. Are the exhaust ports on the LS3 really that small? Most LS7 cams are in the 12* split or so. Before my valvetrain issues my LS7 was pulling hard to 7k but I don't have a dyno graph. That was supposed to be the following week. The cam is a 228/240-118+4. I'm sure a ported MSD intake would help but that will have to be for another time. I'll be stepping up to a 434ci "while I'm in there". Could easily go 440 for an 0$ extra but want to leave a couple hones in the sleeves. These ones can go to a max of 4.2".
As long as the car it fun to you, that's all that really matters. Dyno nets be damned. Ha
You should check out my muffler. Long tubes merged to a 3.5" single. It sounded freaking incredible and stock quiet when closed. ZERO drone anywhere. Oh and it would shoot flames. NBD
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The thought with the cam was that it had minimal overlap 0* at .050”, and extra exhaust duration to hopefully bandaid the restricted exhaust on the car. I don’t think it’s been a bad choice, but again not setting records. Going to be real curious what the dyno curve looks like after the headers.
I used to spit fireballs too. The real motivator to ditch the cats and put the headers on is to get the sound and fireballs back haha. It’s a much more cackley idle and ragged sound without the cats, and fire is cool.
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Wow! What a wild couple of days. I really didn't think we'd pull this one together, but we started Saturday morning and got the car wrapped up by 10 pm yesterday and home by 11.
Shirley and my dad busted ass (and knuckles lol) with me all weekend to get the new wheels and tires mounted, the DSS pro axles in, and the headers installed. I didn't think about needing O2 extensions so I drove the car home an hour in open loop mode lol. My tune wasn't half bad. The car leaned out a lot in PE which is always a good sign.
The headers sound wild! It is just as quiet if not quieter than before at light load which is a big surprise to me. I thought it was going to get obnoxious. It doesn't drone either. Getting on it, the thing is vicious. It sounds amazing and I can't wait to be able to get a closed loop tune flashed into it and start playing around with it for real. I also need to add some fuel in decel so I can get some fire going again :D
Once it is ready I'm going to take it to Church here in Socal for a dyno and street tune. He did my buddy's C5 with an LS3 and it ran great. I've always done all the tuning myself, even the couple times I've had it on a dyno. I'm really looking forward to the dyno day.
Got my co-pilot :) The new mom car was packed full of 275's and Weds haha
(https://i.imgur.com/mKhAxDk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PkLu24l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eQp7anR.jpg)
When we were doing the trans I found a ton of grease in the right rear of the car. I had already snatched up previously some Cobra style DSS pro axles on clearance from J-Auto. I guess everyone is using explorers now so they make the inner stubs with the larger sealing surface. The splines however are the same as the Cobra, and with a simple seal swap you can run mustang axles in the explorer housing. Saved 40% on these guys brand new which is awesome. I was seeing a future scenario where I had axles with FD outer CV's and Mustang inner tripods, and potentially no way to get new ones of either if I had a problem. I've also always hated the sloppy Ford tripods. Just lame engineering. These Porsche CV's are super nice.
(https://i.imgur.com/NhG5PSD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N5niNMR.png)
New wheel bearings installed with the larger hubs and fresh ARP lugs to work with the new axles.
(https://i.imgur.com/RE9SFCl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5X5qpEt.jpg)
They look damn good in there! Sexy with all the upgraded suspension arms too. Never thought I'd go down that route, but now I'm a diehard advocate. Bushings suck - heim joints for the win.
(https://i.imgur.com/HUyiJcT.jpg)
Listed the old wheels and tires for sale and they were gone in less than 24 hours. Years of driving and not even a scratch. Pretty proud of that haha.
(https://i.imgur.com/11EDKRv.jpg)
The new wheels are just ridiculously awesome. Had them machine road force balanced which is not a cheap exercise, but they're glass smooth. Two of the tires needed to be dismounted and rotated 20* and 30* to better match the wheels. Definitely feels ready for 200 mph :)
(https://i.imgur.com/tfa69Go.jpg)
Out with the old, in with the new. I got the final set of 1 7/8" merge headers from Spoolin' on his close-out sale. They've been sitting under a bed for years lol. If I didn't have these I'd have a set of Ronin's for sure. They do fit nice though - didn't need to clearance anything. I have a solid 1/4" to the nearest interference anywhere. They're beautiful now, but I am 100% positive I will be banging them off the ground at some point in the near future. Hell, my oilpan has scrapes and the headers are about an inch lower than that.. At least the new tires raised the car up a bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/qpoTMsn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oB0aD6d.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/phoFIPF.jpg)
I'm really proud of the little garage that we've setup at our condo, but I had to call in the big guns for this project.
(https://i.imgur.com/FPhZXwB.png)
Aaaand when you finish super late and there's no light left you don't get sexy pictures of the finished product.
(https://i.imgur.com/QbvW5Vq.jpg)
We got home, shared a beer, and then all but collapsed. I am very grateful for having the day off today. These pics of the car in the garage represent so much work over the past month or so that I can't even keep track of all that was done.
These past weeks pale in comparison to guys like Blake building entire cars seemingly overnight with custom electronics, custom interior and fabricated parts out of thin air, but as you can tell from the dates in the build thread things tend to take a little extra time around here lol. This has been literal years of parts piling up and I'm just incredibly proud of what has been accomplished so quickly. This car has become an absolute monster of a performance car. It is nothing I'd ever be able to replicate starting over from scratch. It has taken over 10 years to get here. I can't express how happy I am to be able to own this car, and continue building my ever changing dream car out of it with some incredibly awesome people in my life.
And I mean, can we talk about that fitment? 275 slicks on a street car? :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:
(https://i.imgur.com/XtP07Ut.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7KUkI9p.jpg)
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What are the wheel specs? Looks great.
How's that ls7 coming? Lol
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What are the wheel specs? Looks great.
How's that ls7 coming? Lol
18x9.5 +45 square and the tires are 275/35/18. The rear has a 12mm spacer. I need a tad more camber it just barely rubbed a bit in the back.
The ls7 is next in line after the car gets tuned. I’d like to get as much ready as possible now and then just have to drop the engine in. Everything needed to get done for the new engine just mixed up the order of things a little bit haha.
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I'm curious about getting a different engine tuned prior to the LS7. The square port heads and intake are going to change a lot.
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I'm curious about getting a different engine tuned prior to the LS7. The square port heads and intake are going to change a lot.
There’s still a lot of time and money needed for the ls7, and it’ll get a Holley anyways. I’m still using and enjoying the car in the meantime. The ls7 has already been going on 2 years lol.
Quarantine derailed the engine build a little bit, but all that work is going toward the end product. I just want to see what this combo makes before swapping engines haha.
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Damn that came out nice!
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Wheels look sick! Have you tried NT01 compared to Maxxis? How many miles do you get on the maxxis roughly?
That is a ton of work and totally agree with you things happen slow in these parts LOL I was happy to get trans RnR in 4 days. Some of these guys do that in a morning, and replace the engine in the afternoon and drive it work the next day!
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I know LOF has used both. The Maxxis are the best street tire I've ever run if you can 100% avoid rain at all costs. California doesn't have any unplanned rainfall lol. Because they don't have any tread pattern they're incredibly smooth and quiet. They also wear super well. I ran the last set for 2 years hard on the street and they weren't even to the wear bars, and they were still sticky. I didn't do any track days, but it is definitely a characteristic of these to last a very long time.
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Good to hear on the Maxxis tires. I'm strongly considering those for my racecar. 👌
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Wheels look sick! Have you tried NT01 compared to Maxxis? How many miles do you get on the maxxis roughly?
That is a ton of work and totally agree with you things happen slow in these parts LOL I was happy to get trans RnR in 4 days. Some of these guys do that in a morning, and replace the engine in the afternoon and drive it work the next day!
The wear is similar between the 2. If you are street driving do the NT01, at least you have a little tread to handle a little water. The RC1 will instantly hydroplane above 25-30 MPH in any standing water condition. NT01 is better but not by much.
Both ride well and aren’t overly noisy. When they are up to temp on a track the NT01s can be slid and overdriven a bit. The RC1s don’t like to be over driven.
I have not yet tried the new Maxxis RC1 compound though. I have heard it can withstand a bit more temp.
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Counter point, if you want to be rain worthy you'd be replacing NT01's long before their useful tread is gone. I did drive my r888's in the rain back in the day though so it is nice to have the option.
RE71-R's in less than a year were too sketchy to drive in the rain too. They were the worst wearing tire I've ever used. Wore like pencil erasers. They did not handle high power, and after a couple rotations the tread was gone and they camber wore like a bitch too compared to the R comps.
Neither NT01 or RC1's will be the fastest tire from what I understand, but are good street/canyon/track day tires. Not going to set record lap times, or be the best for competition if the tire choice is open.
http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/tire-review/r-compound-tire-hierarchy/
I'm not sure if this is still valid as it is 3-4 years old now, but some helpful rankings for race tires.
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Well, pretty exciting and fun day. Might’ve been a little frivolous to do the tune before an engine swap lol but now I’ve got a real good baseline for the ls7 to compare against. The thing cranked out 511/509 with minimal correction factor. Stock c6z’s dyno ~460 here.
It’s hard to tell objectively how much faster it is than before, but I did get a chance to ride passenger and it’s quite an animal. My butt dyno is a little numb from the driver seat, but riding passenger always gives some perspective. Part throttle and under the curve it’s never been this strong and it noticeably carries better past hp peak to 7000.
The headers and I suspect maybe the pushrods have helped it carry power higher than before. Power gains are 43 hp and 58 ft lb from my previous best with the exhaust manifolds. It ran 11.2 at 129.85 at Fontana in the summer with 468whp, so it ought to rip now. I’ve been 11 teens on street tires and it definitely feels like I could drive it off the line to a 10.9x right now on the right day.
It’s nice to have everything working on the car again. Good foundation to throw a crap ton more power to it. It grips first gear right now with the fresh slicks so I’ve got some headroom to get after it! Very excited for the next step.
Ls7 updates soon I promise :p
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1EDISHqj7/?igshid=1q68zny85gjd9
(https://i.imgur.com/9jlLcK9.jpg)
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Question, what did you change? I know you changed your exhaust but what else? My Ls2 put out 505/450 at the wheels, I can see the difference in torque from your displacement. I always like to compare combos, good way to learn what works and what doesn’t.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The big changes recently are the headers and the RPS carbon clutch. The clutch hits like a mofo...it literally feels like I went up 1 or 2 numbers on the rear gear on the hit, and then it pulls normal. That hit combined with fresh slicks is no joke.
Years ago I put a “rod mod” ls3 intake on but never dynod it. I have the rods but no intake porting.
Small changes recently include a more straight shot intake and larger diameter vs the cobbled together bits I had before, and longer bigger diameter pushrods. I’ve got the stock ls7 lifters preloaded down nearly to the bottom of the travel making them essentially a short travel lifter (so long as you don’t float the valves). I have big piston to valve clearance so I’m not worried about it. Would not do that with stock flat top pistons.
I don’t believe the big ign1a smart coils are worth power necessarily, but I gapped TR6IX plugs up to .060 and the engine idles and runs smoother than it ever has.
Also unsure if the pro axle CV’s are any more efficient than the Ford tripods. I have to imagine there’s a small gain there.
I was on a dynojet before and a dynapak now, but he said stock c6z’s dyno 460whp and with intake/headers/tune they pick up ~40whp...so bolt on ls7 numbers out of a 402 with stock heads is pretty sweet. Also very comparable to numbers I see on dynojets for a c6z, so I figure I’ve gotta be within 5hp of what it’d read on a dynojet.
The weird double hump power peak was an intake harmonic that would not tune out. It’s odd because no matter what timing or fuel went in it would not smooth out. You don’t feel or hear it, but I’ve seen it on my datalog before I took the car in. Weird stuff.
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It's also odd how hard the torque nose dives after 5500. I'm curious if it's a valvetrain instability or the intake/head port.
Still looks like a blast to drive though.
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I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.
The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.
The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.
I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.
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That's amazing power! I bet its a blast to drive! I think you should just sell me the LS7 and enjoy this one :D
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I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.
The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.
The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.
I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.
Drive it a little more until the tires start to fall of a bit then report back :)
I'm not saying the LS7 is a bad idea, but you are gonna need more tire with another 50-75 wtq. You are in Goldilocks land right now.
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What LOF is trying to say, "MOAR POWA"!
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That's amazing power! I bet its a blast to drive! I think you should just sell me the LS7 and enjoy this one :D
Lol! I'll run it on the engine dyno when its done just to tease you. I have a crazy huge CID 4.5 intake and a 2000 cfm throttle body that I picked up for it too that I want to run and expect it to maybe even knock on the door of 800 unless it winds up being too big. The CID 4.5 might be better off on a 440 or 454. It might want more RPM than I'm willing to run with the SBE, but I'm not against a hail mary pull to 8000 if it is making steam.
I've always kept in the back of my mind that it'll likely wind up in one of our drag cars at some point in the future, or if I ever find a roller chassis that I want to play around with. The LS7 would run 8's in a light weight drag chassis.
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I’m not worried about valvetrain stability the engine is super smooth and consistent. They made probably 10 pulls and the shape of the curve was identical on each except for the small gains they worked out adjusting timing.
The torque falling is just the 4” stroker crank with only a 226 intake lobe. I really was tempted to throw a bigger cam in it but then I’m really going too far. This is the mild under the radar streetable combo lol if I swapped cams too I’d be making like 560+ and I think start losing motivation on the ls7.
The 4” stroke piston speed wise is like reving 10% higher rpm. I’m actually quite pleased with how well the revs hang on. Before the headers it used to be really noticeable above 6500 that it was all done and now shifting at 7000 still feels fast. The longer pushrods are supposed to make the cam behave bigger too it might be helping a bit. If you go back to 2006-2008 and look at 402 stroker results most are really disappointing and peaked early and fell hard. They’re tough engines to get to rev and get a really bad rap.
I’ve been semi joking but mostly serious that I’ve thought the LS7 would ruin the car with too much power but honestly the car is so much faster now already, and it’s hooking first gear with the fresh slicks. I’m really excited to get the new engine in here now... I have no issues throwing another 50-75 wtq at it how it sits and I’m confident the car will be still reasonable to get the power down.
Drive it a little more until the tires start to fall of a bit then report back :)
I'm not saying the LS7 is a bad idea, but you are gonna need more tire with another 50-75 wtq. You are in Goldilocks land right now.
Haha my 255's were still hookin after 2 years! These fresh ones are definitely spoiling me right now though lol. I've never expected drag car like traction I'm very accepting of black tracking 2nd and hooking 3rd. I do not expect the LS7 to hook first gear without a drag tire.
I really have been thinking that the ls7 would be too outrageous and make the car into effectively a straight line only machine effectively ruining it. I've driven the car on street tires where it would roll into wheel spin in third on the highway and you couldn't be confident making a lane change under power let alone powering out of any corner even in 3rd or 4th. It is comical, but it really isn't fun and I don't care how good a driver you are that will catch up with you eventually. Sketch on that level becomes unpredictable and there's been a few times it does stupid shit when I'm just trying to drive normal.
The LS7 will definitely be wild, but I don't think it'll be uncontrollable. Plus I'm putting a lot of power to the ground with 3.90's. I could always step down to a 3.73 or 3.55 with the ls7 if I had to, but where's the fun in that :P
What LOF is trying to say, "MOAR POWA"!
Always!! Haha.
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Are you planning no hood or a hole for the CID intake? You could just go with a Mamo ported MSD intake to keep it a little more tame and be able to close the hood.
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I'm loving this because I've been debating on stroking my LS2 to solve my reluctor wheel issue, and the fact that I could make more power makes it more appealing. I can keep my top end as is.
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Oh the CID is purely for dyno fun and when it goes into a drag chassis someday...or if my dad builds a 427/440 for one of his cars. There was a deal that was too good to pass up. Someone went too big on their induction for a motor they wanted to keep at 7000 and below. It would be fun to dick around with at the drag strip but I think I'd have a hard time flying under the radar with that one. They already know I need a roll bar lol.
Check out this beast. If I remember next time I'm at my dad's I'll snag some better pictures. The TB is a work of art.
(https://i.imgur.com/YyDqhoY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8G53A2b.png)
I've got a sniper low profile sheet metal intake to try for the LS7. Will give me the 8000 rpm powerband without building too much midrange torque. There's a guy with a 388 destroked LS7 that has dynod something like 680whp and run 138 mph in the quarter with a heavy stick shift Fbody.
The Mamo MSD is definitely the all around killer for the LS7. You're at $2200 or something ludicrous for a plastic intake though after the porting, and it barely fits in the car.
If the CID runs really good I may do something stupid and put a hole in a fiberglass hood, but for standing mile I do have to keep aero in mind too.
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I'm loving this because I've been debating on stroking my LS2 to solve my reluctor wheel issue, and the fact that I could make more power makes it more appealing. I can keep my top end as is.
Short vs long stroke is a very interesting comparison. 4" stroke vs 3.622" is basically like spinning 10% higher RPM all the time. Expect to pull the peak power down by 400-500 rpm or more, and fall off sooner due to airflow restriction and port tuning. Without a big cam it can be hard to make them rev happy. A 4" bore also makes it tough to get good airflow due to valve shrouding unless you stick with cathedral port heads, but then you pretty much need to step up to a 235-245cc intake port minimum to have enough airflow for the displacement. For the cam to behave similarly as what you have in the car now you can expect to add about 4-6* duration to the intake, and retard the cam timing a bit. If you keep the same cam it will behave like a milder cam for peak power location and driving around.
It depends what you're looking for. If you want an engine that will beg you to wring it out to 7200 rpm every shift a 402 possibly isn't your best route. My second little horsepower bump comes in at 6250 rpm which I'm very happy with. There's a thread on ls1tech that documents dozens of 402-408 builds and you'll see most are HP peaking at 5500-6000 and make less horsepower than your LS2 does. We've learned a thing or two since 2007, but this is a great reference for you to compare against your LS2.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/816128-408-results-part-ii.html
That said, HPR is dominating the road race world by building induction limited 468 motors that make "crap" peak power compared to their potential, but make so much damn midrange power that they pull on literally everything else on the track. These are 900 horsepower capable engines that are induction limited to ~6000 rpm - but live forever on track, use big maintenance free hydraulic roller cams, and out accelerate everything. It isn't a traditional sports car power delivery, but if you're motoring past exotics tractoring around at 5500 rpm do you really care?
A 427 or 440 can definitely be the high reving screamer engine for you though if you want to make big power - so maybe think about sleeving your block. The 4.125" bore is a game changer, and even with a relatively small cam you can make them rev out to 7200 and make huge power. The ls2 block is RED's preferred block for doing darton sleeves - best strength in the block and performance is the best with the bay to bay breathing. Exidous is building a darton sleeved motor right now. My build is starting with an LS7 block because I found a SBE for cheap.
Now, when people trash talk stroked LS2's based on dyno numbers there's a factor to it that people don't understand. There are intangibles to having the larger engine that you just don't see on a dyno. It is more powerful everywhere, all the time. Part throttle power and driveability is better and stronger. Throttle response is stronger. They hit harder. Bigger cams drive easier. Average power is going to be WAY better as well. Managing the torque in the midrange can be tough with such a light car, but with your widebody and everything else I have no doubt you could handle as much power as you can throw at it.
You're making fantastic horsepower with the LS2 already and honestly if you keep your top end and you build it into a 402 I wouldn't put the expectation to gain toooo much peak power unless you really get after the camshaft. What you would gain is at least 40-50 ft lb at the tire and the car would be a freaking animal. If built right it can be very durable - I'm at about 22,000 miles and showing no signs of wearing out - and I beat the crap out of it.
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Some good info right thar.
I'm still rocking the stock LS7 crank and rods. The stock pistons will almost certainly be swapped out for forged 4032 pieces to allow a more crap fuel tolerant engine. If that does happen I'll step up to a 4.155" bore and unshroud the exhaust valve a tad. Otherwise it is a tame build but it's all on hold until I get back from my deployment(if I even go). Supposed to be there in under two weeks but still too many unanswered question. If it does happen the car will be sitting until mid winter. :-/ Your car may be LS7 and on the road before mine! Ha
Does Tony really charge $2100 all in for a plastic intake? I think my FAST102 was about $1300 ported from him.
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Some good info right thar.
I'm still rocking the stock LS7 crank and rods. The stock pistons will almost certainly be swapped out for forged 4032 pieces to allow a more crap fuel tolerant engine. If that does happen I'll step up to a 4.155" bore and unshroud the exhaust valve a tad. Otherwise it is a tame build but it's all on hold until I get back from my deployment(if I even go). Supposed to be there in under two weeks but still too many unanswered question. If it does happen the car will be sitting until mid winter. :-/ Your car may be LS7 and on the road before mine! Ha
Does Tony really charge $2100 all in for a plastic intake? I think my FAST102 was about $1300 ported from him.
Stock crank and rods for me too, and Mahle low expansion alloy forged pistons. I have the same alloy in my diamond pistons right now and they're great. They have some slap when first firing up but they quiet down very quickly.
Yeah I've seen the invoices on corvette forum from Tony.. The intake is $1000, and then porting he's getting like 650 or 750, and then the stealth mod is another 3-400. And he sells them like candy.
It is easy to be mad at Tony's prices, but gotta give the guy props he is a serious hype man and marketing expert.
Some of that unshrouding you can do in the cylinder head too you can open the chamber wall up around the exhaust port. Bigger bore is always better though - if you're honing for new pistons you might as well go bigger.
Good luck whichever way your deployment goes. I'll take it as a challenge to get the engine done if you do haha.
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Some good info right thar.
I'm still rocking the stock LS7 crank and rods. The stock pistons will almost certainly be swapped out for forged 4032 pieces to allow a more crap fuel tolerant engine. If that does happen I'll step up to a 4.155" bore and unshroud the exhaust valve a tad. Otherwise it is a tame build but it's all on hold until I get back from my deployment(if I even go). Supposed to be there in under two weeks but still too many unanswered question. If it does happen the car will be sitting until mid winter. :-/ Your car may be LS7 and on the road before mine! Ha
Does Tony really charge $2100 all in for a plastic intake? I think my FAST102 was about $1300 ported from him.
Stock crank and rods for me too, and Mahle low expansion alloy forged pistons. I have the same alloy in my diamond pistons right now and they're great. They have some slap when first firing up but they quiet down very quickly.
Yeah I've seen the invoices on corvette forum from Tony.. The intake is $1000, and then porting he's getting like 650 or 750, and then the stealth mod is another 3-400. And he sells them like candy.
It is easy to be mad at Tony's prices, but gotta give the guy props he is a serious hype man and marketing expert.
Some of that unshrouding you can do in the cylinder head too you can open the chamber wall up around the exhaust port. Bigger bore is always better though - if you're honing for new pistons you might as well go bigger.
Good luck whichever way your deployment goes. I'll take it as a challenge to get the engine done if you do haha.
That's probably the same alloy I'm going to use. Not full retard like the 26xx series. I looked at the Mahle pistons but couldn't really find the right relief size and compression height combo. My block was decked to 9.23" when sleeved for some reason so I cannot have the piston proud too much. I've been looking in the 1.165"-1.173" area for CH and the DSS that Summit sells seem to be the only ones that really fall in line with what I need.
I used to have his heads on my LS1. For all the hype and marketing you cannot argue they don't deliver as promised. Never a surprise from him going in if you know what it costs. Aside from it making 50hp more than you were expecting.
I've already played with the bowls a little bit. Once I have the pistons installed and know what gasket I need I'll open up the exhaust side a little. The hard part is holding myself back from going to the 4.185" piston for exactly 0$ extra. I keep telling myself I need to leave space for another hone or two. I'm actually using the power bore sleeves. Made in the USA and can go out to 4.2" if N/A.
Hopefully you'll pull it off. Ha
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So long as you have the time to wait most piston manufacturers will build you a piston to spec without extra cost, just lead time.
I would be punching that thing out to a 440 real quick :) If you hurt a cylinder you'd likely resleeve that one liner vs rebuild the whole thing. I don't know how often you'd plan to open the thing up to hone the block and replace the pistons but for me that'd be an every 10+ years kind of thing. With that much use on the engine I wouldn't feel like it owed me anything. The bad news with an AL block if you seriously lose something in the bottom end the block is going to be toast anyways. You might as well build what you want. 4.200 sounds cool, but the head gasket is real hard to seal. Outside of some record setting effort it is probably best to stick with the tried and true 4.185" as the maximum.
Cool about the Powerbore sleeves! It has been in my head for so long that sleeved blocks = Darton I almost say them interchangeably. I've seen those on TSP's site. Their sleeved blocks are super reasonable in price for what you get.
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TSP was where I got mine. It's not been completely smooth working with them as I ordered the block back during Black Friday and am still back and forth with them about a few issues. I'll reserve judgement until everything is settled. Sadly, the LS7 build has been riddled with issues. TSP didn't clearance the block for the 4" stroke despite knowing it was an LS7 assembly. The clearancing looked like something I'd be able to pull off in my garage but I wouldn't have left as much flashing attached to the sleeves. Found ferrous metal chunks in the oil pick up tube. Big enough to get trapped there and with visible tooling marks. My guess is iron shavings from the stock liner removal. The block, pump and assembly are all fine but the bearings all needed replacing after only 100 miles. And lastly, the ICT DOD delete plate. ICT has pretty much written me off and ignoring my emails at this point. They straight up told me that an o-ring large enough to get squeezed out of the seam was completely normal and will seal well.
You're probably right about the 4.185". I have no intention of opening the block up more than mechanical failures deem necessary. The DSS are also an US company and seem to look like a quality product. They run about the same as most other pistons excluding Wiseco. $750 for a forged 4032 set with 1.2mm rings and lighter wrist pins.
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Haha my 255's were still hookin after 2 years! These fresh ones are definitely spoiling me right now though lol. I've never expected drag car like traction I'm very accepting of black tracking 2nd and hooking 3rd. I do not expect the LS7 to hook first gear without a drag tire.
I really have been thinking that the ls7 would be too outrageous and make the car into effectively a straight line only machine effectively ruining it. I've driven the car on street tires where it would roll into wheel spin in third on the highway and you couldn't be confident making a lane change under power let alone powering out of any corner even in 3rd or 4th. It is comical, but it really isn't fun and I don't care how good a driver you are that will catch up with you eventually. Sketch on that level becomes unpredictable and there's been a few times it does stupid shit when I'm just trying to drive normal.
The LS7 will definitely be wild, but I don't think it'll be uncontrollable. Plus I'm putting a lot of power to the ground with 3.90's. I could always step down to a 3.73 or 3.55 with the ls7 if I had to, but where's the fun in that :P
I'm not trying to be a dick, or talk you out of it, just giving you a counter point.
With the LS7 I think you will look back to the point the car is at right now and say to yourself the car was perfect where it is now.... and it is. The car is still controllable and tossable, and the power delivery is managable, and most importantly you have a little room for error.
Without a widebody, these cars start becoming undriveable as you close in on 550 WHP, and as you are aware will bite you fast if you make a mistake.
I only say this because there have been far too many people with these cars that put too much power in them, and then don't drive them because they are just too hard to balance on the razors edge.
I'd hate to see this thing relegated to drag radials. :bacon:
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It will never be a drag radial only car don’t worry!
No way you’re not being a dick at all. You’re just being honest. I’m pretty pragmatic about the LS7 and how I’m almost only going to make it objectively worse lol and that’s why I’m keeping the LS2 combo going at the same time. The engine build is a dream fulfillment thing and is not exclusively built for the FD, and Texas Mile in this car is kind of like a bucket list deal. Even if I don’t hit 200 running 190’s would still be a hell of an experience.
This is a race engine I’m stupidly putting in a street car and it’s going to be entertaining, probably suck to drive, and be fast AF. For all I know I’m going to get impounded by OC Police as soon as I turn onto the street just for the loud idle lol.
Long term I’ll probably build a mild ls3 short stroke engine for it, put the 402 back in if I don’t sell it, or de-tune the LS7 a bit with a mild hydraulic roller.
I am taking a lot of measures to try and keep from overpowering the chassis with intake selection, cam selection and cylinder heads. It’s basically a drag build that should spin 8000 when it matters. We’ll see how theory meets reality haha.
The chassis is really well sorted. I’m working on some brake stuff in the background that I’m not ready to show yet, and I have some plans for improved cooling but requires me to move my relay boxes in the bumper.
The car really is fantastic right now. Zach from TST wants to drive it haha only Matt drove it back in the day. We need to hit the canyons soon once riots stop maybe. Not going anywhere near LA or the beaches until this stuff blows over.
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It will never be a drag radial only car don’t worry!
No way you’re not being a dick at all. You’re just being honest. I’m pretty pragmatic about the LS7 and how I’m almost only going to make it objectively worse lol and that’s why I’m keeping the LS2 combo going at the same time. The engine build is a dream fulfillment thing and is not exclusively built for the FD, and Texas Mile in this car is kind of like a bucket list deal. Even if I don’t hit 200 running 190’s would still be a hell of an experience.
This is a race engine I’m stupidly putting in a street car and it’s going to be entertaining, probably suck to drive, and be fast AF. For all I know I’m going to get impounded by OC Police as soon as I turn onto the street just for the loud idle lol.
Long term I’ll probably build a mild ls3 short stroke engine for it, put the 402 back in if I don’t sell it, or de-tune the LS7 a bit with a mild hydraulic roller.
I am taking a lot of measures to try and keep from overpowering the chassis with intake selection, cam selection and cylinder heads. It’s basically a drag build that should spin 8000 when it matters. We’ll see how theory meets reality haha.
The chassis is really well sorted. I’m working on some brake stuff in the background that I’m not ready to show yet, and I have some plans for improved cooling but requires me to move my relay boxes in the bumper.
The car really is fantastic right now. Zach from TST wants to drive it haha only Matt drove it back in the day. We need to hit the canyons soon once riots stop maybe. Not going anywhere near LA or the beaches until this stuff blows over.
I know you know what you are doing. :yay: I totally get the dream and goal. We absolutely need to go for a run one day soon here.
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I'm loving this because I've been debating on stroking my LS2 to solve my reluctor wheel issue, and the fact that I could make more power makes it more appealing. I can keep my top end as is.
Short vs long stroke is a very interesting comparison. 4" stroke vs 3.622" is basically like spinning 10% higher RPM all the time. Expect to pull the peak power down by 400-500 rpm or more, and fall off sooner due to airflow restriction and port tuning. Without a big cam it can be hard to make them rev happy. A 4" bore also makes it tough to get good airflow due to valve shrouding unless you stick with cathedral port heads, but then you pretty much need to step up to a 235-245cc intake port minimum to have enough airflow for the displacement. For the cam to behave similarly as what you have in the car now you can expect to add about 4-6* duration to the intake, and retard the cam timing a bit. If you keep the same cam it will behave like a milder cam for peak power location and driving around.
It depends what you're looking for. If you want an engine that will beg you to wring it out to 7200 rpm every shift a 402 possibly isn't your best route. My second little horsepower bump comes in at 6250 rpm which I'm very happy with. There's a thread on ls1tech that documents dozens of 402-408 builds and you'll see most are HP peaking at 5500-6000 and make less horsepower than your LS2 does. We've learned a thing or two since 2007, but this is a great reference for you to compare against your LS2.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/816128-408-results-part-ii.html
That said, HPR is dominating the road race world by building induction limited 468 motors that make "crap" peak power compared to their potential, but make so much damn midrange power that they pull on literally everything else on the track. These are 900 horsepower capable engines that are induction limited to ~6000 rpm - but live forever on track, use big maintenance free hydraulic roller cams, and out accelerate everything. It isn't a traditional sports car power delivery, but if you're motoring past exotics tractoring around at 5500 rpm do you really care?
A 427 or 440 can definitely be the high reving screamer engine for you though if you want to make big power - so maybe think about sleeving your block. The 4.125" bore is a game changer, and even with a relatively small cam you can make them rev out to 7200 and make huge power. The ls2 block is RED's preferred block for doing darton sleeves - best strength in the block and performance is the best with the bay to bay breathing. Exidous is building a darton sleeved motor right now. My build is starting with an LS7 block because I found a SBE for cheap.
Now, when people trash talk stroked LS2's based on dyno numbers there's a factor to it that people don't understand. There are intangibles to having the larger engine that you just don't see on a dyno. It is more powerful everywhere, all the time. Part throttle power and driveability is better and stronger. Throttle response is stronger. They hit harder. Bigger cams drive easier. Average power is going to be WAY better as well. Managing the torque in the midrange can be tough with such a light car, but with your widebody and everything else I have no doubt you could handle as much power as you can throw at it.
You're making fantastic horsepower with the LS2 already and honestly if you keep your top end and you build it into a 402 I wouldn't put the expectation to gain toooo much peak power unless you really get after the camshaft. What you would gain is at least 40-50 ft lb at the tire and the car would be a freaking animal. If built right it can be very durable - I'm at about 22,000 miles and showing no signs of wearing out - and I beat the crap out of it.
Wow! Thanks, that helps a lot. Tons of good info, and I’m learning. I’m in no rush and need to plan it out properly obviously, I have ideas in mind but this info you provided will really help.
Track day This Saturday and I’m excited to get out there!
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I want a 4.125+ bore engine so bad but LOF advice is solid. I will put some top shelf Mamo
Heads and a proper NA cam someday and call it good. The balance is sooo good right now at 430whp on the heartbreaker dyno. If I can eek out 500-510whp I’m done. Perfect for this car. I just want to put the dang HPR 7.7 L in just cause of the sevens lol. Dumb, expensive, and I will probably just stay with 6.3L.
Love this build so much!! 22,000 miles is good! I have around 20k on mine now too. It’s just feeling better and smoother now that I have been playing with HPtuners more. Dialed in my rolling idle dip today! Such a nice car!!
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I want a 4.125+ bore engine so bad but LOF advice is solid. I will put some top shelf Mamo
Heads and a proper NA cam someday and call it good. The balance is sooo good right now at 430whp on the heartbreaker dyno. If I can eek out 500-510whp I’m done. Perfect for this car. I just want to put the dang HPR 7.7 L in just cause of the sevens lol. Dumb, expensive, and I will probably just stay with 6.3L.
Love this build so much!! 22,000 miles is good! I have around 20k on mine now too. It’s just feeling better and smoother now that I have been playing with HPtuners more. Dialed in my rolling idle dip today! Such a nice car!!
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I think we gained you like 100 HP to the ground talking you into putting NT01s on the car :)
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I want a 4.125+ bore engine so bad but LOF advice is solid. I will put some top shelf Mamo
Heads and a proper NA cam someday and call it good. The balance is sooo good right now at 430whp on the heartbreaker dyno. If I can eek out 500-510whp I’m done. Perfect for this car. I just want to put the dang HPR 7.7 L in just cause of the sevens lol. Dumb, expensive, and I will probably just stay with 6.3L.
Love this build so much!! 22,000 miles is good! I have around 20k on mine now too. It’s just feeling better and smoother now that I have been playing with HPtuners more. Dialed in my rolling idle dip today! Such a nice car!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we gained you like 100 HP to the ground talking you into putting NT01s on the car :)
Now that's the truth! Lol!
Thanks for the kind words Kinger. You can definitely make some good power with your 383. From what I remember it isn't really optimized right now.
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I want a 4.125+ bore engine so bad but LOF advice is solid. I will put some top shelf Mamo
Heads and a proper NA cam someday and call it good. The balance is sooo good right now at 430whp on the heartbreaker dyno. If I can eek out 500-510whp I’m done. Perfect for this car. I just want to put the dang HPR 7.7 L in just cause of the sevens lol. Dumb, expensive, and I will probably just stay with 6.3L.
Love this build so much!! 22,000 miles is good! I have around 20k on mine now too. It’s just feeling better and smoother now that I have been playing with HPtuners more. Dialed in my rolling idle dip today! Such a nice car!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we gained you like 100 HP to the ground talking you into putting NT01s on the car :)
Now that's the truth! Lol!
Thanks for the kind words Kinger. You can definitely make some good power with your 383. From what I remember it isn't really optimized right now.
For sure. If he put some Mamo 220 or 235's on that motor it would be a BEAST.
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For sure on both tires and better heads/Cam. I should have bought Exidous MMS heads but I wasn't ready and I hate it when stuff sits around and collects dust. Someday!
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https://youtu.be/eb7xar-1QXM
Took some video playing around last night :) The stretch of windy road I used to take much faster, but last time I went through there a bunch of people were parked for watching the sunset and some dude was walking his dog. Felt pretty bad lol. It is a hell of a road though - reminds me of Laguna Seca through there. There are a couple drops just like the corkscrew.
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Got a little wiggle there in the braking.
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Got a little wiggle there in the braking.
Yeah it did lol I'm thinking I need an alignment. The car hasn't felt as sharp up front since I put the 18's on. Either that or the 275's are too much tire up there on a 9.5" wheel. It is a little vague on center, but tracks super straight so I'm not too sure where to look other than starting with an alignment check.
Was trying to get a couple datalogs out to 7k in fourth which is not the easiest thing to do. Drove it a little deep maybe.
The AFR on my sensor is reading 11.5 average under power and they told me it was 12.5 on the dyno. Not sure where the delta is coming from. I'll check it on the gauge instead of just reading it in HPTuners maybe my calibration equation is wrong for the sensor, but it seems right at 14.7. Might not have been a great reading at the tailpipe. Fueling is flat and consistent, just too rich.
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If you read from the tailpipe it will usually come out a little on the lean side. Are you at 11.5 and N/A still? That's pretty rich.
You'll also get some wiggle if the rear braking is too strong. I use a 265 on a 10" and it's just right. No vagueness or wiggle on turn-in.
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If you read from the tailpipe it will usually come out a little on the lean side. Are you at 11.5 and N/A still? That's pretty rich.
You'll also get some wiggle if the rear braking is too strong. I use a 265 on a 10" and it's just right. No vagueness or wiggle on turn-in.
I’m on stock brakes and stock prop valve still so it should be a bit front biased. The wiggle felt like it came from the front and not the ass end. There was some weird elevation change there right when I got on brakes might have pulled it a bit.
Yeah my wideband in hptuners is saying 11.5 and they told me it was 12.5 on the dyno with a tailpipe measurement.
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It’s the 275s on the 9.5 wheel. The tire moves laterally quite a bit with that setup... I think I have some on track pictures somewhere to verify.. it was alarming. :o
I get way less tire rub now on the 10.5 wheels than I did on the 9.5 wheels with the same 275 tire. Effective offset is exactly the same between the 2 setups.
For what you are doing I don’t think it is a bad thing though. The car will ride and drive better when cruising, it will probably have more grip on exit and be a bit more forgiving. But it is just not going to be as crisp on turn in or under braking. You will feel that numbness waiting for the tire to take a set.
But check the alignment too just to make sure.
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I had that with 295's on the 18x10 in the back. The shift on turn in was unsettling enough that I went to a 265 in the back. I would have preferred to keep the 295 but CCW doesn't make my SP500 wheel the same anymore. Unless I had someone add 1" to the barrel and about 30mm in spacer.
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For the RC1 I could put a 265 up front and keep the 275's as spares for the rear I guess if I really don't like it. Other option would be a 255/275 stagger with NT01's. I really like a square setup on this car though for rotating them and for handling balance overall. It has always served me well.
I expected going from a taller 17" sidewall to a shorter sidewall of the 18" it would feel tighter up front.
The tough part is it is faster to change immediate direction like I expected, but less feedback in the wheel because I'm imagining it has a bit of squirm. Not sure if that makes sense. I am getting more used to it the more I drive it, but twice on that drive it started getting into the sketch area a bit when the car wanted to move around and the steering felt very floaty. I need to get it in a little bit more of an open space to feel it out.
I'm hoping maybe I just have a bit of toe out in the front and correcting that will calm down the nervous feeling.
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I'm on 17x10 square with 255/275 NT01 F/R and I love how sharp turn in is. Those Front tires are stretched slightly to fit that rim and if I ever had an encounter with a curb the rim would get toasted but man it feels fantastic. Its nice to get the car to a level where we are pinching pennies so to speak on what tires and sizes grip best. LOF made a comment I probably added 100 hp to the rear wheels in traction and I would say that is probably true. The car was not that great to drive until I got it on a proper tire. Enjoy optimizing it!
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Love the video's, those roads look like fun. I am pretty jealous... But it also helps to keep me from getting tickets...
How are the front tires for fitment? Any rubbing? What are you running for ride height to the fender arch?
I am 90% sure I going with 275-35-18 NT01's on my 10.5" wheels but i am mildly concerned they will rub....
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Love the video's, those roads look like fun. I am pretty jealous... But it also helps to keep me from getting tickets...
How are the front tires for fitment? Any rubbing? What are you running for ride height to the fender arch?
I am 90% sure I going with 275-35-18 NT01's on my 10.5" wheels but i am mildly concerned they will rub....
The canyons are fun! They're actually a fairly well traveled highway which sucks. There's nowhere to pass on the double yellow and there's usually a lot of traffic. If you get lucky it is a fun ride but I don't feel good about blasting along at 100+ for long stretches like some others do. The road is fast enough you could go 80 the whole way in a normal car and never slow down so it isn't really technical.
The front fits perfect it hasn't rubbed once. My fenders are rolled flat. My wheels are 9.5 +45. Ride height FL/FR/RR is all 25 3/8". LR is 25 1/16". I did corner balance it once ages ago and it took some adjustment to get the cross weight dialed in. If I remember right I set the car up at 25 1/4" everywhere and I definitely had to move them all around a bit. I don't remember setting everything to 25 3/8, but again it has been probably 4-5 years since it was done.
These ride heights are with 25.4" tall tires. I was a lot lower with the 24.8" tall 17" setup.
Where do you run your ride height? I can't go any lower. My headers touch on speed bumps going at a complete crawl.
(https://i.imgur.com/OBZXnZu.png)
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The canyons are fun! They're actually a fairly well traveled highway which sucks. There's nowhere to pass on the double yellow and there's usually a lot of traffic. If you get lucky it is a fun ride but I don't feel good about blasting along at 100+ for long stretches like some others do. The road is fast enough you could go 80 the whole way in a normal car and never slow down so it isn't really technical.
The front fits perfect it hasn't rubbed once. My fenders are rolled flat. My wheels are 9.5 +45. Ride height FL/FR/RR is all 25 3/8". LR is 25 1/16". I did corner balance it once ages ago and it took some adjustment to get the cross weight dialed in. If I remember right I set the car up at 25 1/4" everywhere and I definitely had to move them all around a bit. I don't remember setting everything to 25 3/8, but again it has been probably 4-5 years since it was done.
These ride heights are with 25.4" tall tires. I was a lot lower with the 24.8" tall 17" setup.
Where do you run your ride height? I can't go any lower. My headers touch on speed bumps going at a complete crawl.
(https://i.imgur.com/OBZXnZu.png)
I am on 285-30-18 Star Specs which are 24.8", my ride height is right at 25". If I go with NT01's, they will jump to 25.55 with should theoretically put me around 25 3/8" on all corners. My fenders are rolled and I don't get any rubbing currently. I am pretty confident I won't have to raise the car up and and will be able to get a little more sidewall on the 275 tires. I actually like the look a little better too....
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Yeah it sounds like we’re right at the same spot!
I like the look of the taller tire too. With the 24.8-25” tall tires even though the car was lower it didn’t look low. People would tell me to drop it more...I would’ve had to be extremely low to get a similar look.
I don’t think you’ll have any problem at all.
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Yeah it sounds like we’re right at the same spot!
I like the look of the taller tire too. With the 24.8-25” tall tires even though the car was lower it didn’t look low. People would tell me to drop it more...I would’ve had to be extremely low to get a similar look.
I don’t think you’ll have any problem at all.
I actually had mine at 24 3/4" at one point and it would bottom out all over the place. I was amazed at how raising it up a 1/4" helped.
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You'll love the NT01 over the star specs. Have you ever had an R comp on the car?
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You'll love the NT01 over the star specs. Have you ever had an R comp on the car?
I had ra1’s on stock rims way back in the day. Mainly used on track with minimal street driving.
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So I checked my tire pressures and shame on me for not double checking after mounting them but America’s Tire set them to 25 on one side and 30 on the other. 32 front and 30 rear and the car feels a lot better regarding steering feel and sharpness. Set a little higher than usual up front to try and stiffen the tire up.
I put some time into the ls7 today. Not so great news started fitting bearings and the damn rear main is super out of round. Like .0003 in one way and .0032 on the diagonal. The block needs an align hone. All I can figure is the ARP studs are distorting the bores. Not sure how this was missed before, but it has to go back to the machine shop.
Ordered another set of $280 coated bearings, 1 under this time, and whatever the block machining is going to cost...I think the ls2 block was ~$400 to have done. Fun day lol.
I did get the rod bearings fit. Needed a full set of 1 tighter bearings which luckily my dad had in the drawer. The coated standards I bought for it are going in inventory I guess. Clearances fell at .0021 to .0025. Were well over .003” with standards.
The rotating assembly is off to the balancer. Gotta see if our usual shop does align honing.
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I'd imagine it was the ARP mains. It's the only reason I've kept the OE. Didn't want to have to hone the bores again. TSP actually did a really good job with the bearing clearances on my block so I can run STD everything. Why the fancy expensive bearings? I'm just running the regular mains that are about $80 and never had an issue.
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Just peace of mind I guess. They're the tri-armor coated Clevites. Non-coated clevites went in the rods as my coated standards were fitting up too loose. I had a hard time finding the coated rod bearings in anything other than standards last time I ordered them. I have coated main and rod bearings in my LS2 and it has lived through a lot of abuse, but we've also have had great luck with the non-coated clevites. My dad's last race big block went 1200 runs with non-coated bearings and literally everything looks brand new coming out of it.
The rods did fine with ARP bolts, and we've done a number of factory rods with ARP bolts and have never had to resize them. Just a dumb oversight not to catch the mains before it went to the shop the first time.
I do worry a bit about the RPM I want to spin I want to give the thing a chance at living, but then I remind myself there are people taking SBE engines with aluminum bearings to 8000 rpm lol. Nothing will matter if the crank touches at 8000 rpm, but maybe the coating does a better job at holding onto the oil. Keeping the thing properly oiled is going to be most important.
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How does the align hone work, by definition you are removing metal so the main housings in the block are going to be larger and you will alter the pre-load on the bearings? Can you get bearings with a larger OD? You could grind a couple of thou off the bearing caps but that would only help if the block is out of true in the vertical, if it is out of true horizontally I cannot see how it can be rectified.
Many years ago at Ford UK we had oversize OD mains available to reclaim blocks that had been line bored incorrectly or damaged by a broken cutting tool.
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My understanding is how you said it - first step is to grind down the caps by 2-3 thou which will make the bores no longer circular. They're honed with a bar that goes all the way through the mains. Since the caps are ground it maintains the proper crush on the bearing. Everything should be concentric and in spec when finished.
Aluminum blocks are tricky because the caps are steel and the block is aluminum. Different strengths mean the material is being removed at different rates, and they heat differently too. I honestly don't know how they manage that aspect of it.
If not setup properly, yes it absolutely ruins the block and I'm kind of nervous because my bores are already finished and we've already installed the oil squirters. Non-trivial time and money into this block already.
My LS2 that is in the car now had a bad align hone done and the mains came back worse than they left. The second time they did it the crank wasn't flat in the engine it was in at an angle and it was pinching on the thrust. The crank wouldn't even turn. I'm not using the shop that did the ls2.
You do raise the crank in the block, and if they go too far the timing chain is too slack and you need a special set which almost no one makes for the LS engines. One go I'll probably be fine with the standard timing set, but after two hones with the LS2 I had to find a different timing set.
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Helped my dad load the LS7 block into his car yesterday so it'll go to the shop this week. I don't think they're too busy these days so hopefully it'll come back quickly.
I'm ready to spill the beans on the brake setup. Got far enough along on this now that I think it is actually going to happen lol. Have made a bunch of progress recently.
Fall last year I thought I'd get creative and put some Porsche calipers on the front with CX9 rotors and buy the SBG setup for the rear and move the stock caliper out to keep things in balance. Well, the massive caliper didn't fit under the 17" Enkeis, and got super busy with life, so the stuff has just been sitting. Then magically, a set of 18" wheels showed up and I have brake clearance haha.
(https://i.imgur.com/kcCuuCJ.png)
This was originally intended to be a budget setup just to throw some bigger brakes up front wiht a CX9 rotor, but my dad (rightfully so) gave me a ton of shit about unsprung weight, rotating mass...etc etc.
The pad is comically large compared to the ~credit card sized front pad from the stock rx7.
(https://i.imgur.com/XdXrY5R.png)
The front only cheap and cheerful project has now become a four wheel big brake project with 2 piece rotors that will be punching up at $7000-8000 Brembo/AP Racing territory for hopefully ~$3500 out of pocket. More than half of that will be the custom rotors which would be much cheaper if the hats already existed.
The calipers are from a 2017+ Cayman S up front, and an '06 - '12 Cayman S in the rear. Porsche is a parts bin company so I don't know the full list of models, but tons of 911's have used them too.
(https://i.imgur.com/gg4IG8O.png)
Rotor rings will be a 350x34 front and a 325x24 rear specific for the Porsche calipers. Hats will be designed to my spec to fit the RX7. For those keeping track, that is an increase of 2.2" front and 1.22" rear, and thickness increase of almost 1/2" front.
Before ordering custom rotors, they wanted me to verify fitment. Actually putting my engineering degree to use for once lol I fired up my Solidworks from college and started drawing parts.
(https://i.imgur.com/DmCKqpX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rdpjvSR.jpg)
The front bracket and the rear rotor template are printing right now. Should verify fitment on the front and get working on the rear fit-up next weekend.
(https://i.imgur.com/TvKgnyh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iHRnVAW.png)
So, how is it all going to work -
Doing some math on the brake torque output, there will be a rearward shift of mechanical/hydraulic brake bias by about 2.7%. My goal will be to get away with still running the factory prop valve, but an adjustable one is an easy addition if this doesn't work out. The factory bias is definitely heavily front biased, but 2.7% is a pretty big change. Another thing I could try which is commonly done is to stagger pad compounds - slightly less friction in the rear would work as well.
Stock Balance Ratios = 67%/33%
New Balance Ratios = 64.3%/35.7%
Percentage of original Torque at equal pressure = 134.2%/151.2%
Doing some more math, with the increase in piston volume pedal travel is going to increase by ~19% vs where I'm at now. At most I think the difference will be about 3/4". When I built the car ages ago I put the 929 master cylinder in the car which I haven't hated, but it definitely takes some leg and I would say without question it is oversized for the stock brakes with a very short pedal. The 1" master cylinder bore of the 929 MC pushes ~15% more fluid than stock. It is also right in the same range as the stock Porsche MC with these brakes, so I should gain some travel back in the pedal but not so much that it feels long. If it doesn't feel how I want, I can move my pedal ratio to fine tune it, but I'm thinking it should feel natural. There is very little flex in the brakes currently with the pedal travel only going to taking up the pad air gap and then it feels solid.
The primary goal is an improvement in brake life, and thermal performance so they can actually be track worthy. EBC Yellows are the best pad I've found for my use on the street that don't fade and have good bite, but they're dusted in 3000 miles up front and 5000 miles rear with no track time.
The stock brakes aren't inadequate stopping power wise, but definitely are not up to the performance of the rest of the car. I will say, with the new power, and the new tires...I have felt from both the driver seat and the passenger seat the need for a more aggressive application of the brakes from 120-130 mph. It isn't that the power isn't there, its that it takes unnaturally high force application. You really need to stomp on them now which can definitely lead to under-using the brakes at high speed. I doubt I'll be able to do any stop tests or anything, but I think there's room for improvement in stopping distance, and also driver confidence without being so touchy that they lock up right away.
Pretty excited to see how all this works out.
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Looks like a promising, well thought out setup. I'm excited to see it finished.
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Looking forward to see this come together!
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Really cool with the caliper detail. Any interest in sharing your bracket models? Where are you getting rotors made? Seems expensive! I am guessing the rotors are off the shelf and the hats are where the cost is?
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Thanks guys! This has been a fun one so far. In that purgatory stage of having a bunch of money into it but still some details to work out, but so far so good lol.
Rotors will be from a company that I've worked with before who makes 2pc replacements for stock vehicles. What is awesome is that the rotor rings are specific to the Porsche calipers for size and machining of the pad face...not cobbled together like I was trying to do before. I'll definitely share more details when they're finalized. For the Porsche it is $2300 retail for all four for full floating 2pc rotors. I think there's some Porsche tax as their other vehicles aren't that much. The rotors will be the lion share of the cost.
The calipers I'm only into ~$900 off ebay for front and rear. There are a ton of Porsche dismantlers out there I've found through this.
Let me get a bit further and make sure everything is lining up and works. If it works really well I'm toying with the idea of kitting up a few sets to help recoup some cost.
If I knew this was going to be my destination from the outset I should have just gone through StopTech for a 4 wheel kit, but this has been a fun project and might turn out something pretty neat in the end.
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I like the monoblock Porsche front caliper but what are the plans for a parking brake?
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I have a rear upright being delivered this week and when I look at the rear caliper mount I'll also take a look at adding a parking brake. There are a few options I've looked at. They're all quite a bit of money for something that isn't really exciting lol.
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Wilwood makes a parking brake that is decently priced. Mounting it is the trick.
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Wilwood makes a parking brake that is decently priced. Mounting it is the trick.
Yeah that I think is the lowest cost option I've seen. Any thoughts on just having a parking brake on one side?
I've been looking at how some of the dual caliper kits mount and I don't think it would be too tough to get something mounted. Fixturing the cable will probably be the trickiest part.
There are aftermarket controllers for the Tesla electronic parking brake, but it is going to be heavy and very expensive again for something I don't care that much about lol. Wilwood also have an electronic parking brake option now.
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I think reusing the cable already there would be easy enough. Just need a new bracket for the cable. The electronic brake wouldn't be a bad option but I'm guessing it's a fair bit more expensive. Sourcing off a wrecked car may be a better option financially. The VW Golfs use one I believe.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-15979-rd?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjw88v3BRBFEiwApwLevf7cOvrXT2yYXntjrrpFTaODICRFURO8vEXnge99lrhaOrJu2bAluhoCnI4QAvD_BwE
Yup, not cheap.
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I think reusing the cable already there would be easy enough. Just need a new bracket for the cable. The electronic brake wouldn't be a bad option but I'm guessing it's a fair bit more expensive. Sourcing off a wrecked car may be a better option financially. The VW Golfs use one I believe.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-15979-rd?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjw88v3BRBFEiwApwLevf7cOvrXT2yYXntjrrpFTaODICRFURO8vEXnge99lrhaOrJu2bAluhoCnI4QAvD_BwE
Yup, not cheap.
Unfortunately those electronic ones don't use a simple +12V switch to operate the motor they need a controller. The Tesla e-brakes themselves are super cheap on ebay but the aftermarket controllers are costly. Still way cheaper than that Wilwood kit.
The Teslas are nice because they're a standalone parking brake caliper separate from the existing rear caliper. The vast majority of OEM e-parking brakes are integrated into the caliper like the manual ones would be.
It would be nifty, but the motor and caliper each I imagine is 10+ pounds. A bunch of unsprung weight to add.
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I'd not seen those parking brakes from the Teslas... a little reading says it's just run with an H-Bridge like a power window motor. So either 2 relays/caliper or a dual h-bridge, like a Pololu dual motor driver. You could even current sense drive it with a little Arduino box. Verrrrrrrrry interesting, I could simply my center console with an electric parking brake...
Sorry. squirrel.
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Speaking of squirrel, https://www.pololu.com/category/10/brushed-dc-motor-controllers should work to control my exhaust via the ECU and a Tesla parking brake.
https://www.ebay.com/i/264715222408?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=264715222408&targetid=915850255573&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028091&poi=&campaignid=9338046419&mkgroupid=103102861148&rlsatarget=pla-915850255573&abcId=1139336&merchantid=114754933&gclid=CjwKCAjw88v3BRBFEiwApwLevXf7XIsbZSHvNVNkmRk_q_JPTcJzae25CqaCqy8LQbk3Ysb-Wek_uBoCnJ8QAvD_BwE
Based on the number of pins I'm thinking that might be a stepper motor? The pin size suggests no more than 13A.
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Even though some cars have controllers for the EPB, I am pretty sure they are just receiving 12V at the EPB itself. Just a simple two wire setup. I think the controller was just necessary for some extra smarts on when to apply it.
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I like the idea of a current sensing controller for one touch use and reduced motor wear. But from what I can tell you're right. Just regular dc motors
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A pantera shop sells a $250 controller solution for it which honestly all in isn't very expensive you're at sub 500 including ebaying some calipers for something that aftermarket is over $1k. I definitely think it should be doable with a low cost home brew control setup though..Integrating with a standalone could handle the relay logic and then you just need to setup some relays or a basic motor driver circuit.
I wouldn't want the extra weight on my rx7 on the spindle but for something like your Mustang Blake the Tesla parking brake calipers would be bitchin.
Glad my rambling could start some cool discussion lol. All I do is chase squirrels all day now that I'm working from home. I have zero attention span for anything these days.
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The rear of the FD is already at a weight advantage with an aluminum hub in the rear and iron in the front. I think if done right you could have a good dual caliper setup in the back. Just need to make sure you're using aluminum as much as possible.
Personally I'd like the extra thermal capacity of a 4 piston and bigger rotor in the back. The only way that will happen is with a second caliper. Pair o Telsa for $115 on ebay is awesome. Plus, you know, looks more cooler.
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Oh 100% I already have an idea how I'd mount the dual caliper setup and it would look pretty sweet! Leave the Tesla logo and you can say you're hybrid with electric brakes lol.
There's a drift dual caliper kit I looked at and stealing their mounting bracket strategy would be simple. I'm just imagining those Tesla calipers are 10+ pounds apiece..probably 5-6 pounds caliper weight and then 4+ pounds electric motor. I'm already adding a chunk of weight with the bigger rotors and calipers and 18" wheels and tires over the 17" setup. I will weigh all the brakes when I'm swapping them. Going to be a porker before I know it if I'm not careful.
I have an idea for a mechanical parking brake that would be compact and light weight...hoping I have enough room. Need to get the car in the air and take some measurements. Looking at pictures I think I'll have enough clearance...
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Have you looked at ZO6 brakes? They seem relatively small(caliper) for how well they do.
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Parking brake... maybe this would work for you.
https://ipsco.org//Custom%20Services/Parking%20Brake.htm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200626/e997e89a0cc0edeed3eab5be4bf1307f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200626/8a90d36a8ffbff22ff1ddb947c92964c.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Damn, nice Paul! That's one of the ones I've looked at but it gets pricey. You do that on both sides? Looks like an easy solution. I haven't seen anyone add a handbrake yet to the 4 wheel stoptech kit.
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Yes, both sides! And ipsco has the aluminum mount as well. Needs slight tweaking but works. Hardest part is getting the cables to work.
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Yeah I see how you routed it I can imagine it takes a good bit of force to get them to bend that way.
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It works, but I’m thinking to buy universal cables and change it. I’m always tweaking something.
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An old fashioned handbrake is far better for hill starts and holding the car at the drag strip, another alternative would be a disc with a drum as part of the hat such as used on the old Toyota Supra and others.
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I have a cable parking brake now with a in-the-hat drum setup on it. It works fine but it's not something you'd use to hold the car at the drag strip. You'd want a hydraulic setup for that, like a drift brake. My parking brake is dialed in but I can definitely over-whelm if it I really try to.
FWIW (since we're full squirrel) I'm considering something like the Tesla setup (I had previously looked at an electronic actuator that does the handle job, but the Tesla setup is cleaner) and then putting a drift brake hydraulic handle with an inline master on the rear calipers. Then I have a parking brake for parking and a hydraulic over-ride for the rears in case I need it. I feel like that gets every feature possible, and using an electronic setup means I keep a "real" parking brake without needing 2x levers.
Okay, definitely probably done meandering about...
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I've honestly never used the parking brake for anything but parking. Minus the couple hill starts while I was tuning.
I'd love an electronic setup. With proper electronic control you could set it up for a hill start. Gyro and some coding is all that's needed.
Not sure how I'd handle the vacant handle space though.
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I have a cable parking brake now with a in-the-hat drum setup on it. It works fine but it's not something you'd use to hold the car at the drag strip. You'd want a hydraulic setup for that, like a drift brake. My parking brake is dialed in but I can definitely over-whelm if it I really try to.
FWIW (since we're full squirrel) I'm considering something like the Tesla setup (I had previously looked at an electronic actuator that does the handle job, but the Tesla setup is cleaner) and then putting a drift brake hydraulic handle with an inline master on the rear calipers. Then I have a parking brake for parking and a hydraulic over-ride for the rears in case I need it. I feel like that gets every feature possible, and using an electronic setup means I keep a "real" parking brake without needing 2x levers.
Okay, definitely probably done meandering about...
I’ve wondered why drift setups are dual caliper and not just tapping into the existing rear caliper. Couldn’t a one way valve and a T handle the logic?
An in hat setup would be great but the FD isn’t built around one. The rear hub and upright assembly is all wrong for it.
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An old fashioned handbrake is far better for hill starts and holding the car at the drag strip, another alternative would be a disc with a drum as part of the hat such as used on the old Toyota Supra and others.
I’ve used the hand brake at the drag strip but never on hill starts I just jump to the gas pedal.
Neat idea Exidous for the gyro sensor. That’d be a nice modern twist. Hill hold assist is done with the ABS pump on modern cars primarily.
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Been a little slow on the updates recently. Not a lot going on, and I kind of got distracted again lol. After getting the car together and messing around with it a bit I really haven't been driving it. I think it sat in the garage unmobile for the last month+. Pretty tired of driving the roads around here locally, and not really leaving the house at all...really missing races and meeting up with friends. My local track Autoclub Speedway cancelled all racing for the year at the strip. I'm actually worried they're not even going to re-open as a drag strip. They're making so much money simply storing vehicles on the drag strip and there's no liability in that.
I did actually have a chance to race over the 4th of July weekend at Sonoma. My dad an I double entered our wagon, and by the end of the weekend the cylinder head started leaking in the exhaust port due to the porosity in the port and is currently torn down with the cylinder head back at Frankenstein. Super cool. I managed to get down to 8 cars out of ~180 in the $20k to win race before losing a very tight one. I honestly thought it was my day I was crushing it.
Brakes progress - everything is test fit and designed. I just need to make billet brackets and order the rotors. Just ran out of motivation to drop the few G's required to get it all done. Other than that, looking very promising! The rear bracket is pretty cool. Very compact...barely gets on there. Had to file down the ears on the upright and tap the thru hole for a bolt to thread into the bracket. The rear bracket will need to be steel because of how tight it is, but will be stronger than the front in the end.
(https://i.imgur.com/6YmEjUD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/qKa3J4p.png)
LS7 progress got a little stuck when I found the mains significantly out of round after the block had already been to the machine shop. Probably the ARP studs causing it because the crank wouldn't last in there the way it was. I measured the mains before it went and I have no idea how I missed the fact that some were .002 to .003" out of round. No issue other than lost time. The block went back to the machine shop and has since been align honed and now just sitting there waiting for my ass to get in gear.
On the days I do get up to my dad's we've mostly been putting in work on the Fiat which is now ready to run. Hopefully in the next 1-2 months we can hit a test day with it. Everything refreshed/rebuilt, new tires...ready to go. 454 BBC topped with eight 2.900" butterflies with mechanically injected methanol! Should be a blast.
(https://i.imgur.com/4ox3k2c.png)
Out of complete and total boredom I've taken the FD apart to swap cams lol. It isn't that bad of a job and I'm enjoying just wrenching on it. I realized it wouldn't cost me anything other than time and some gaskets since I already had the cam on the shelf.
Swapping in a 242/250 on 114 from a 226/242 on 117. 18 degrees more overlap, more duration and slightly more lift. Yeehaw. With exhaust manifolds it never made much sense to throw a big cam in. Now with longtubes and no cats I can take advantage of the scavenging. Should be terribly obnoxious but lots of fun.
I may have uhmmm...also deleted my HVAC. I'll take "Decisions You'll Regret" for $600 please Alex!
With the ls7 I wasn't planning on running AC since I'll have an external oil pump where the AC compressor goes. When I drove it last the AC didn't work, and a good 50% of the fittings including the AC compressor itself are covered in oil from leaking. I've re-charged this system so many times and it has so much stop leak in it I'm really just fed up. I need to take a serious look at all the lines and the compressor and see what is salvageable and what needs to be re-made.
Also I made a joke about my rotary cam going flat, and turns out the old cam had failing heat treat on one lobe and was chunking some metal off...so go me I guess.
(https://i.imgur.com/BcbULEi.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeWrEgs.png)
I'm a good 3-4 hours away from firing the thing back up.
Other exciting news, I finally took the plunge on a Holley system. I've wanted a standalone for years, and I needed a 58x capable system for the ls7. Talked myself down from a Dominator that I had spec'ed out before to the Termi X system. Without the screen it is only $899 including the O2 sensor and harness which is just an outrageously good price for what you get. Adapting the E40 ecu to the ls7 is doable, but would require a $700 NW DBW 102mm tb, and a $250 Lingenfelter converter box. That adds up to more than the ECU...Other sensors and things I've purchased I'm probably ~$1800 into it which still isn't bad. I already have the 7" Holley screen ready for it so I didn't need the little 3.5" unit. I'll be converting to a cable throttle, and likely porting out my LS3 intake to work the 105mm Holley TB, or just running a 105 to 90mm adapter plate.
I think I'll actually get the LS2 running with the Termi X and then I will really just need to drop the LS7 in. Doing this in stages has been a lot more fun and less overwhelming than trying to rebuild the entire car in one go. It'll also hopefully prevent any major fuck-ups with the new engine since everything will be vetted out and ready to run. The biggest thing is I can also do all this pre-ls7 work in my garage, but once the car goes for the engine swap it is stuck at my dad's until it is running again. Judging by how little I've been up there to work on the engine the car would've never moved again lol.
Excited to play around with the new cam, and all the fun features in the Holley. Got a pressure switch coming for the clutch speed bleeder so I can program things off it like a 2 step and no lift shift. I also have a flex fuel sensor to go in, and new injectors for the ls7 that can handle 100% E85 if I want to run that high. I'll also be installing a Meziere EWP which can be controlled by the Holley, and the fans too. I'm looking forward to being able to better manage heat soak by running the cooling system independently.
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Crazy cool update!! I should cam swap mine and get the 30-40whp it should make back. Interesting on the holley that is a well priced ECU system for sure!
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I’ve wondered why drift setups are dual caliper and not just tapping into the existing rear caliper. Couldn’t a one way valve and a T handle the logic?
An in hat setup would be great but the FD isn’t built around one. The rear hub and upright assembly is all wrong for it.
It probably would work, but just one more thing to fail on a competition car, so I am sure that is why they run 2 seperate circuits. I have an inline set up and it works great unless you really want to left foot brake at the same time you are pulling the handbrake.
In the offroad trucks I have worked on, they run an inline setup and with a pedal box the front and rear circuits are already seperate
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I’ve wondered why drift setups are dual caliper and not just tapping into the existing rear caliper. Couldn’t a one way valve and a T handle the logic?
An in hat setup would be great but the FD isn’t built around one. The rear hub and upright assembly is all wrong for it.
It probably would work, but just one more thing to fail on a competition car, so I am sure that is why they run 2 seperate circuits. I have an inline set up and it works great unless you really want to left foot brake at the same time you are pulling the handbrake.
In the offroad trucks I have worked on, they run an inline setup and with a pedal box the front and rear circuits are already seperate
Not sure how you could use a check valve for that purpose.
Brake fluid needs to flow both ways. The hand brake would have to cut off the path to the main master cylinder and pressurize the rear calipers, then open the normal path back up when released.
I'm sure those setups use a specific master cylinder with that capability.
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I dig it.
(https://i.imgur.com/HPQsNdZ.jpg)
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Well that is unpumping believable.
I know you’ll be driving that off the Terminator X, will it be timed based or PWM, or can you do both?
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Lol nice one.
Right now I just wired it into the relay that feeds the coil packs. I’m not running a high dwell time or anything so the 75A relay has plenty of headroom.
Definitely want to use one of the Termi X outputs to control it though I can put a switch on the touchscreen to turn it off and on. Also need to read up on how to keep water circulating after I turn the ignition off like a turbo timer kinda deal. 2-3 minutes of water flow would really help with heat soak.
The pump had a thermostat so I won’t get too fancy with PWM although I think it can do it.
Got the car fired up this morning before having to head out for the afternoon. Won’t idle without my foot in it, but good oil pressure and no weird noises. It definitely is louder and nastier sounding - couldn’t get any indication of an idle yet. Need to hook up the laptop and bump the idle and give it some more airflow.
The radiator shroud is touching the water pump pulley so I need to figure out a solution to that. Pretty annoying.
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This thing is going to be nasty. Tweaked the tune enough to force the idle down. It wanted to idle at 1200-1400 the first couple times I flashed it lol. Still nowhere near a final tune.
It changed the sound of the engine quite a bit. A lot different induction noise. Sounds badass. I didn’t expect a bigger cam to take less idle airflow and have better throttle response but the thing is happy.
https://youtu.be/BHNtAkRp9Zc
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Ahhhhhhhmazing! That sound!! 8) :drive:
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That sounds mean!
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Can’t wait to get it dialed in properly! It sure does sound good.
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Ooooooooo yea. Now the struggle - do I tune it some and drive it with the cam, or tear it apart again? lol
(https://i.imgur.com/Q7hoYLW.png)
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Fancy parts!
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Well, this has been a fun little distraction. Nothing like breaking your perfectly running car out of boredom.
After heading into limp mode 3 times in 2 drives thinking it was my connector on the TB (previous issue), I have learned about codes P0068 and P0106 which protect from runaway throttle by comparing maximum allowed airflow vs TPS. Yup, I exceeded a programmed limit of airflow lol. All the boosted guys are gonna be like
(https://i.imgur.com/AWoh5ip.png)
But yeah, definitely making some more power. It also wants all the revs. Shifting by feel I ran it out to 7200. Here's a comparison of before/after with the g/cyl after I could finally do some pulls.
Before:
(https://i.imgur.com/JzkN7jH.png)
After:
(https://i.imgur.com/aYAMeSs.png?1)
I just got it good enough so I could go beat on it some. It is doin some weird shit like backfiring out the exhaust at 2500 rpm under load and I'm heel toeing it back to idle coming to a stop, but I can bomb around at 7200 no problem lol. I think I'm going to hold off on street tuning it for driveability and just shift focus to getting the Holley installed. Idle and slow speed tuning is boring af and it isn't like I actually have anywhere to go right now without AC in this heatwave. With a decent base map, real time tuning and self learn I bet the Holley can be dialed in way quicker.
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More cool shiite I've been collecting for a while. Made a parts run up to my dad's garage today. I should have everything I need to install the standalone now for the most part. Not too sure how I'll be mounting the screen yet, but I want it on the steering column somehow.
(https://i.imgur.com/mOiPvZ6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BDBh3NH.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/aWl5ul1.png)
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Well guys it has been fun guys I'll probably never have a running car again. At least it is inside the garage lmao.
I pulled the passenger kickpanel and wanted to punch myself in the dick lol. At least I still have my old notes from ~8 years ago.
You can see the rats nest in the picture. I've threaded the DBW pedal harness and the OBD2 harness out from the driver's side and am going wire by wire cutting out the splices and making notes of what they are. Luckily there really isn't much in that kickpanel that I actually need anymore. If I clean it up enough I may even try to mount the ECU behind the kickpanel.
(https://i.imgur.com/EyuxcMi.jpg)
Eyes on the prize though. It is going to be sweet. I can't wait to launch on a 2step and flat shift the thing through 4 gears.
(https://i.imgur.com/XEtUrSD.jpg)
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That's some fancy wiring right thar.
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Oh man! There should be a meme - wiring... what a nice way to burn 100hrs of labor and still not be done..
Flat shifting eh!
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So, big improvement the kick panel is now empty and the harness is pulled into the engine bay. I have a few mystery wires that are loomed up and go through my fender. I'll need to pin those out at the connector to know what they are. I'm guessing fuel pump and cooling fan relay signals.
After that gotta get it up in the air and unhook the trans and the O2 sensors and get the manifold off so I can try and work the harness up from between the engine and the firewall.
The only thing I need to hook back up from that rats nest is the tach signal going to the dash which the holley has a programmable square wave output, and the reverse lights.
Oh man! There should be a meme - wiring... what a nice way to burn 100hrs of labor and still not be done..
Flat shifting eh!
Yeah flat shifting! I have a clutch pressure switch for one of my inputs that I can activate a 2step and also ignition cut for shifting.
That's some fancy wiring right thar.
Hoooooo dawgie I tell you h'what
I learned a thing or two since then I'd like to think, but I'm also still extremely lazy so I don't know if I'd do it any different lmao. The wiring worked perfect from day 1 and never faltered so I can't be mad, but I definitely did not make it easy to remove the harness lol.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNw8S7t8qCA
Soooo it's been a minute. I got really lazy end of last year and just sat around staring at different screens. Over the past couple weeks I got the Holley Terminator X wired and installed. Haven't tucked any wiring or made it nicely loomed. I'll wait for the new engine to tackle that. The tach is reading double by the way...that was ~7000rpm in 4th which was a lot faster than I was planning on going but it just didn't stop pulling lol.
The LS7 has been difficult, but making progress. There haven't really been great updates to share. It wound up going to the machine shop 3 times when really it should've been knocked out in one shot. To work on that engine I drive about an hour up to my dad's on the weekend and then have been finding roadblocks like the mains need align hone, the bores weren't square after honing etc. I hope to get there this weekend and measure the latest work from the machine shop - finally file fit the rings and maybe assemble the heads. It is not too far from being ready to be final washed and screwed together and then it'll be off to the engine dyno at Westech.
I wanted to get experience with the Holley before I throw the new engine in. If I struggle with the tune or damage something I'd rather it be the 20k+ mile engine that owes me nothing instead of the brand new engine that has taken 3 years to build.
Anyways, the car is much, much faster. I never dialed in the bigger cam with the factory ECU I pretty much parked it and pulled the harness out. The LS7 should be terrifying. The old cam had me at 512whp, but this already feels like another level. It is smoother, broader powerband and the Holley is crazy good. I built a base tune for it and I have just been letting the car self-learn for now. I still need to optimize the idle control, smooth out low speed driving, and push the timing map in some areas. I also have a flex fuel sensor to wire in and a clutch swing for no lift shifting and 2 step. Overall though I couldn't be happier with the ECU. It was ready for full throttle after the first warm-up honestly. After the first couple pulls it has WOT regions within +/- 1-2%.
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So how is the Holley better compared to the OEM VCM? Just fewer tables that deal with the meat and potatoes to make it run?
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I'm really looking at the Holley EFI for my next dragster project with my father.
I would really like to hear more thought on it as you get into the weeds here.
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I don't think there's a reason to bother with an OEM ecu ever again when the termi x is so cheap and easy to use. I loaded a base map that I built up using some best guesses and have just been driving the car since then while the fuel auto learns. There are some manual tweaks to do to improve driveability/idle/coldstart etc, but literally the car fired up and was ready to go WOT with the base tune I built.
It feels much faster in control of the engine. The timing and fuel control is extremely fast and it translates to a smoother running engine. You don't feel that slam into PE mode for example. I had an early Gen4 ecu in this car with the E40. The Gen3 0411 stuff was painfully slow and low resolution imo and the difference would only be more noticeable.
You can command whatever AFR you want at any point - I'm idling at 14:1 because my cam is pretty big now, cruise at stoich, and as RPM/load climbs it progressively gets richer up to 12.5:1 at full power.
The ECU self learns quickly and accurately based on the wideband improving your tune just by driving around. As your closed loop correction shrinks you tighten down the learn window so erroneous data can't blow up your nicely dialed in fuel map. In the WOT region I can probably already narrow the learn window to +/- 3% and still allow closed loop to be more aggressive, but it won't make large changes to the base map.
Closed loop wideband operation at all times like a modern car is so nice to have finally.
Real time tuning while the engine is running if you want to tweak things.
Custom tables and I/O's for adding things that dickheads want like 2steps, no lift shift, flex fuel, power adders etc. You aren't stuck forcing the factory ECU to do something it doesn't want, or running standalone systems without ECU integration. I still have to add these things in I was waiting for some harness stuff and also just taking baby steps sorting the car out. I'm excited to play with e85 and NLS though.
HPtuners is good and has only gotten better, but you're still limited by the hardware. Also kind of funny I'm replacing an ECU that was designed ~20 years ago at this point so I'd be disappointed if it wasn't a significant upgrade.
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I'm really looking at the Holley EFI for my next dragster project with my father.
I would really like to hear more thought on it as you get into the weeds here.
Depending on how many systems you want for a race car you may need to step up to a dominator. Both the Holley HP and the Terminator X are very limited in the available I/O and advanced tables. There's 4 inputs, 4 outputs, 4 1D and 4 2D tables you can create.
E85 for example I'm using one input, and I'm using up 2-3 tables for fuel and timing modifiers. If I was also trying to do some other power adder stuff it would start to get tight.
Also, one thing is a little frustrating is there's limited ways to do internal processing for I/O's. You can't really build up internal logic on things. You sometimes have to loop an output into an input - maybe through a switch in the car or maybe just loop them - to be able to build up the logic you want in some tables.
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Its just a pro-comp dragster.
I have been looking at that it for like staging, bump button, delay box, trans brake, and shift.
So its fairly simple But I was looking at the Dominator 58X version to run it.
This will be a all motor LSX on race gas is all.
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I think the Termi X would be a great fit for that unless you want to start adding a bunch of data acquisition then you'll run out of I/O. You should also make a map of your I/O needed before ordering make sure you don't exceed 4 each. Transbrake would be an input, shift would be an output etc. Electric water pump and fans too.
One thing also to note is it has only a high rev limit and a single extra rev limiter to play with - so if you want any kind of 3 step, burnout limiter or anything else you would need to add an MSD box or something. You can use the extra rev limiter to set your launch RPM on the transbrake and there's also a launch retard function if you want.
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All good to know Thank you!
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Oh two more gripes about the Holley while I sing their praises lol - the tach output is 8 cylinder tach signal and you can't program it unless you want to burn another custom output. My tach is reading double right now until I pull my dash to reprogram my tach.
The termi X can't accept a GM speed sensor signal which seems like a missed opportunity. They also don't have a harness for T56 control. I went the easiest route and just got this all-in-one standalone trans controller and it is awesome. It is also programmable to spit out the correct simulated signal for the Holley so I can have a speed input.
https://www.bowlertransmissions.com/all-in-one-harness/
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I have found this page to be helpful for some of the options on Holley I have been thinking about.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9VpHpFG8CvbNF_9xZjWxkw
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Very nice channel! Thanks for sharing. I've seen some of his videos but never clicked into his profile.
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As I look into Holley more I realize I'd need the Dominator which at $2100 I might as well get the EMTRON for an extra $300 and have the ability to do literally everything the heart desires.
If you don't need anything fancy the HP and X really are awesome ECU's.
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The Emtron stuff looks great. Seems like a Motec for less $$. Was a solid consideration when I bought my Haltech.
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Great info! Thanks!!
Well I am kinda of a sucker for the old HPTuners stuff BUT if I was building a hotrod or race car these sound like great options.
I have been tuning multiple cars and trucks the last couple years so GM's software makes "sense" to me due to so much exposure and repetitive use.
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This was going to be a short post to talk about something else but I kept rambling about the car so I'll just make two posts.
I wouldn't be a car guy if I didn't make a boring cold start idle video so here you go -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7h14hkYRks
I drove the car 2 hours yesterday and spent 15-20 minutes in miserable LA traffic. The 15N to Vegas is down to 1 lane and everyone was trying to get there for the superbowl. I moved my IAT sensor and epoxied it into the intake manifold and it works phenomenally. The IATs sitting idle climbed from 75-80 up to 150+ and the ECU kept everything perfect. I could feel the self learn continue to do its thing and get better the longer I was idling around. Cooling performance was great with the electric water pump keeping coolant temp below 200 with a 185 thermostat. The cooling fans also didn't impact the engine tune like it did before with the MAF sensor.
(https://i.imgur.com/OsXImcS.jpg)
The tune continues to improve everywhere and honestly drives quite well right now. It'll buck like mad if you don't give it throttle on take-off so I need to see what is causing that, but if you give it some load the car drives very smooth. It also tries to stall if you clutch in from too high of an RPM so I need to either slow down the drop, or make the catch more aggressive. It is a bit of a mind-f to tune on the tables in this car because of the giant 105mm throttle body. It idles with this cam around 65 kPA and when you first give it load it drops to 30-40 range, but from 40% throttle position you're back up to ~90kPa. I have this giant fuel and spark table but it feels like it spends most of the time in just a few rows. Because of this I've found some areas where I had spark jumping 5-8 degrees as it goes in unexpected directions in the table causing bucking so I just need to continue to manually review these trouble spots and improve them.
There are some light chuggles when going on/off load in low rpm regions, but I also have extremely low driveline intertia with the RPS clutch and it honestly always did this with the smaller cam and the e40 ecu as well to some extent. I need to experiment with more/less timing in those areas and see what it likes.
I got my fuel pressure, flex fuel and speed input all working in the Holley. Still struggling with the tach - worst case I can buy a dakota digital converter but I really feel like I should be able to get this work via the Holley. I can't believe they output an 8cyl tach output that isn't programmable when so many of these go onto LS engines. I've burned enough fuel now that I can throw in some E85 and start playing with that. It won't be night and day power gains, but at 11:1 compression making ~600hp I think e85 will help it out some especially in the midrange and part throttle high load regions. It also keeps the engine cooler while hammering on it.
Power is insane and the powerband has never been as broad or as smooth. This is definitely feeling like a very optimized engine package now with the "proper" duration camshaft for the engine combo. It is a pretty big dickhead machine, but as the tune improves it is mellowing out some. The easier it is to drive the less I feel like it draws attention at low speeds.
My dad took it for a spin while I rode passenger and watched the logs. It pulls very hard to 7200 and even if you short shift it at 6700 it doesn't feel like it loses any momentum. Estimation is it is solidly a 135+ mph trapping car right now making it faster than our 9.9x drag car with a 416. Power is still very manageable on these Maxxis slicks, and the car gets your heart racing. The way the power is delivered from the FD right now is very impressive. All the work I've done to the driveline to improve efficiency and smoothness is finally paying off. For an engine with dead stock ls3 heads I couldn't be more impressed with the performance.
I noticed my 275 wide 18's are rubbing on the inner fenders up front. I also haven't been thrilled with the steering feel on the street for the giant tire. I think in the future I'll throw a 255 up front on the 9.5 wheel it'll fit better and the slight stretch should improve steering response. I loved the steering feel of the 255/40/17's.
I also want to schedule a corner balance and alignment appointment. I'll probably reach out to CHE Works for anyone in Socal that knows who I'm talking about. I corner balanced the car myself when I first got the car together but have made tons of changes since then. The car has always been a little ass-down in the rear which improved the cross weight and f/r balance - but I don't think is the correct way to setup the car and it always looks a little off. I could also use a little more ride-height with the 18's and I want more camber so I can put my spacers on in the rear and take more advantage of these tires all around.
Here's the dirty girl still with the road grime and snow residue from when I blew the coolant surge tank in January 2020 up on Angeles Crest lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/OM5nIoP.jpg)
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So now the update on the LS7.
I continue to struggle with this block. It has been dual torque plate honed twice now, once as a free re-work, pushing piston to wall to the maximum allowable but still ok. I have no blame or finger pointing to the shop - moreso I am seeing this as a lesson learned that I will never try to hone an LS7 block again - new GM 4.125" or sleeved from now on. The bores are still out of round .0013". GM service limits are .0008" and don't even spec what new block tolerance should be. Basically roundness and straightness should be as close to 0 as possible for ring seal. If you research at all online .0013" out of round and expecting ring seal is ridiculous.
I'm very concerned now as my only options are basically assemble it as is and hope it doesn't have blowby and ringseal issues, or I go back to the well of money I wish I had and sleeve the block, buy new pistons and rings, and have it honed it again. The rework I'm looking at another $4-4500 total in the eleventh hour when I'm already rather fatigued on spending money on this thing.
If I sleeved it I would get domed pistons at 4.185 bore and build a 14:1 compression 440 instead of a 12:1 compression 429.
I'm quite torn on what to do. It isn't right as is, but some are saying that LS blocks move around so much while running it isn't worth losing sleep over the out of round and hourglass/taper we're seeing. Simply, it is as good as you can get them and it all works out while running.
I'm really struggling with that - I'm contacting some shops that do sleeving and also trying to get some other people's experience who have been through similar. I would hate to run the engine and have to take it apart, or simply have it not make the power it should because of ring seal or the bores wear out from excessive blowby.
This 'bucket list' engine has been a black hole for money for the last 3 years and I really just want to wrap this thing up - on the other hand this is an engine I want to take with me to other cars and racing disciplines in the future when I get tired of it in a street car and I want to make it worth it.
I'm leaning towards wanting to sleeve the block but would love for someone to convincingly prove to me I should just slap it together and run the bitch and have it all work out. I have a lot of life things upcoming that need money including house things, needing a new car, and other life things that would make it hard to come up with the scratch right now.
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Wow. I'm surprised you're having trouble with getting these round.
Is this a common issue with LS motors, or is it specific to the LS7?
If the bores change this much with the temps encountered during honing, I wonder what happens when the motor is actually running at WOT. :o
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I was thinking of going to 275-35-18 square setup this year if I track the car... But for the street, I would probably run 255 up front, to improve street manors.
As for the LS7, did you check it before you did any machine work? For the cylinders that are out of round, is it in a similar manor/location? What does the machine shop say?
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Could you not sleeve the block you have and reuse the pistons?
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Well I wasn't going to be able to wait a week to get my answer. I drove back to my dad's last night to break the mains loose, torque the mains on the table, torque the heads on the block on both sides, and measured the bores from the bottom. This was the process that Steve at R.E.D. recommended to get the best measurements. Saw next to no, if any change to the bore shape, size and taper.
I'll be sleeving the block. I'll decide 4.130 vs larger bore and higher compression later. I have no doubt I could assemble and run the engine and I bet it would even perform well, but for the time and money into this already I don't want any "what ifs" in the back of my mind or potential for needing to rework it after it is assembled.
I will also use another shop for the hone on the Darton sleeves who I know has the diamond hones and can hit the correct surface finishes.
(https://i.imgur.com/NnEySbE.jpg)
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I was going to say sleeve it. I wouldn't run it like that, but that is me I like to feel confident its 100%. Going to be an absolute beast!
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I was going to say sleeve it. I wouldn't run it like that, but that is me I like to feel confident its 100%. Going to be an absolute beast!
It is 2 month wait for Steve at RED to be ready to sleeve it, but it has already been 3 years. What's another delay...if I'm lucky I'll be racing twice in March so usually I don't get any work done when racing gets busy anyway. At least the car is running and something I can enjoy. I was really close to bailing on the Holley install and pulling the engine out in anticipation of the new engine.
I have some really experienced people saying that it'll all work out and to stop worrying about it, but it is so hard to accept. I've heard first hand and third hand from different machine shops that say they can never get the LS7 bores consistent. The shop I'm using has one customer who forces them to deliver the blocks with the torque plates still on it so they can measure and verify the bores before returning the torque plates because once it is broken loose you can never replicate the good bores that were measured during honing, even after bolting dual torque plates back on.
My dad has been hugely successful for a home engine builder by being a hardass and not accepting things that aren't 100%. He is willing to screw this one together knowing it might need to come back apart, but I don't want to deal with that exercise. I don't think I could handle the disappointment Ring seal is literally everything in an engine. For big bore engines in the future it is only GM prepped LS7 blocks or sleeved blocks from now on.
I can decide in the future if I want to stick with my existing rings and pistons and build it at 4.130 bore, or if I want to spend the money and get new custom pistons for a 14:1, 440 cube build. If I wanted to save these 4.130 pistons and rings for a future build I have another complete rotating assembly. I have a second LS7 crank and Ti rods on the shelf I found locally for $600 I just need one rod. I could also sell it all and prevent future pain and probably cover the cost of the sleeving.
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I thought about high compression too but restricting myself to e85 just sounded gross. So far I've been happy with 12:1. I'm at the limit of pump gas but it holds well. The only reason I went 440 was because it cost me $0 to do so. If I already had 427 forged pistons letting around if have a 427 engine.
Not exactly apples to apples but my block is a sleeved gen 4 5.3. With and without torque plates the round only changed about .0005". Crazy they are having so many issues.
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Yeah it would be e85, and carry some cans of boostane around if only pump gas was available. I think it would be doable. Higher effort for sure. 12:1 on 91 octane would still need a little splash of e85 or boostane for me to feel confident I was getting everything out of it.
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It's dependant on the cam. I run 93 here. Running a bigger cam drops dynamic compression and allows you to raise static.
My cam has a mild intake lobe duration and I'm the at the safe limit for DCR. About 8.7:1. If I ran a big cam I could easily go to 12.5 on 93.
With 91 you'd want more like 8.5:1 DCR.
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Yeah it is a big ol solid roller. My original plan for the engine was to clip the heads to 13.5:1 compression but I ran out of piston to valve clearance at 12:1. This seems like a chance to go back to the original plan.
91 would always have a heavy dose of boostane and would only be for when E85 is not available. Half a bottle on a full tank would be ~98 octane. At that compression the idea would be to run straight E as much as possible.
289/303 on 113+3, advertised duration for the solid lobes rated .020" lift.
If I put in numbers to make the static compression at 14:1, dynamic is ~10.2. That is with a 75 degree IVC.
Bore - 4.185
Stroke - 4
Gasket bore - 4.200
Head CC - 68
Dome - 8cc
Quench - .040"
STATIC Compression Ratio:
14.05:1
DYNAMIC Compression Ratio:
10.21:1
At some point you need to factor in things like VE, horsepower per cube and RPM for octane requirements too. A 1 degree change in cam timing makes way too big a swing in DCR for me to feel confident following it as a rule. Also, a hydraulic roller of this size would show a much lower DCR because it is rated at .005 instead of .020" - but I doubt it would result in a significant reduction in cylinder pressure.
I've seen people successfully run up to 16:1 on E85 with a very well optimized NA combo. Trying to determine at 14:1 if 98 octane would be enough to drive around on, and what the minimum octane requirement for WOT would be.
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This was going to be a short post to talk about something else but I kept rambling about the car so I'll just make two posts.
I wouldn't be a car guy if I didn't make a boring cold start idle video so here you go -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7h14hkYRks
I drove the car 2 hours yesterday and spent 15-20 minutes in miserable LA traffic. The 15N to Vegas is down to 1 lane and everyone was trying to get there for the superbowl. I moved my IAT sensor and epoxied it into the intake manifold and it works phenomenally. The IATs sitting idle climbed from 75-80 up to 150+ and the ECU kept everything perfect. I could feel the self learn continue to do its thing and get better the longer I was idling around. Cooling performance was great with the electric water pump keeping coolant temp below 200 with a 185 thermostat. The cooling fans also didn't impact the engine tune like it did before with the MAF sensor.
(https://i.imgur.com/OsXImcS.jpg)
The tune continues to improve everywhere and honestly drives quite well right now. It'll buck like mad if you don't give it throttle on take-off so I need to see what is causing that, but if you give it some load the car drives very smooth. It also tries to stall if you clutch in from too high of an RPM so I need to either slow down the drop, or make the catch more aggressive. It is a bit of a mind-f to tune on the tables in this car because of the giant 105mm throttle body. It idles with this cam around 65 kPA and when you first give it load it drops to 30-40 range, but from 40% throttle position you're back up to ~90kPa. I have this giant fuel and spark table but it feels like it spends most of the time in just a few rows. Because of this I've found some areas where I had spark jumping 5-8 degrees as it goes in unexpected directions in the table causing bucking so I just need to continue to manually review these trouble spots and improve them.
There are some light chuggles when going on/off load in low rpm regions, but I also have extremely low driveline intertia with the RPS clutch and it honestly always did this with the smaller cam and the e40 ecu as well to some extent. I need to experiment with more/less timing in those areas and see what it likes.
I got my fuel pressure, flex fuel and speed input all working in the Holley. Still struggling with the tach - worst case I can buy a dakota digital converter but I really feel like I should be able to get this work via the Holley. I can't believe they output an 8cyl tach output that isn't programmable when so many of these go onto LS engines. I've burned enough fuel now that I can throw in some E85 and start playing with that. It won't be night and day power gains, but at 11:1 compression making ~600hp I think e85 will help it out some especially in the midrange and part throttle high load regions. It also keeps the engine cooler while hammering on it.
Power is insane and the powerband has never been as broad or as smooth. This is definitely feeling like a very optimized engine package now with the "proper" duration camshaft for the engine combo. It is a pretty big dickhead machine, but as the tune improves it is mellowing out some. The easier it is to drive the less I feel like it draws attention at low speeds.
My dad took it for a spin while I rode passenger and watched the logs. It pulls very hard to 7200 and even if you short shift it at 6700 it doesn't feel like it loses any momentum. Estimation is it is solidly a 135+ mph trapping car right now making it faster than our 9.9x drag car with a 416. Power is still very manageable on these Maxxis slicks, and the car gets your heart racing. The way the power is delivered from the FD right now is very impressive. All the work I've done to the driveline to improve efficiency and smoothness is finally paying off. For an engine with dead stock ls3 heads I couldn't be more impressed with the performance.
I noticed my 275 wide 18's are rubbing on the inner fenders up front. I also haven't been thrilled with the steering feel on the street for the giant tire. I think in the future I'll throw a 255 up front on the 9.5 wheel it'll fit better and the slight stretch should improve steering response. I loved the steering feel of the 255/40/17's.
I also want to schedule a corner balance and alignment appointment. I'll probably reach out to CHE Works for anyone in Socal that knows who I'm talking about. I corner balanced the car myself when I first got the car together but have made tons of changes since then. The car has always been a little ass-down in the rear which improved the cross weight and f/r balance - but I don't think is the correct way to setup the car and it always looks a little off. I could also use a little more ride-height with the 18's and I want more camber so I can put my spacers on in the rear and take more advantage of these tires all around.
Here's the dirty girl still with the road grime and snow residue from when I blew the coolant surge tank in January 2020 up on Angeles Crest lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/OM5nIoP.jpg)
You probably don't want to buy new wheels, but 1 inch wider wheels would tighten the steering response. If you want to do a run one morning soon, lets roll!
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Yeah definitely sticking with these wheels. I'll go the other route and shrink the front tire eventually. If the rubbing gets bad I can pop these off and save them for the rears. I have no doubt it'd be faster with the 275 up front but until I'm actually putting this thing against a stopwatch (probably never) I'll just go with whatever drives the best.
I want to corner balance and align it before I go too wild with it, but I'd love a redemption run up Angeles Crest someday soon especially before it gets too hot. I'm also out here just off Santiago Canyon but aside from some nice scenic views that's more or less a straight line with some bends in it. We can make something happen soon I'm really happy with how the car is running right now and the tune is good enough at this point I can drive it anywhere.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Cgteg4k.png)
Filled up with e85. Ran perfect at E65 mixture trouble free. Everything worked as expected with the flexfuel sesnor, fuel map multiplier, and a timing modifier table I built up. I have it at 27* WOT for 91 octane and fed it 31* and it seemed to love it.
I need to soften my rear shocks the tires won't stay on the ground lol. My acceleration logs are all jagged. Not sure if you can expand the image but the red line going up is RPM and it is jumping here up to 7300 rpm and 109 mph lol. 2nd gear was spinning over every bump.
(https://i.imgur.com/IzvzpHw.png)
The Holley datalogs are pretty useful, and what is nice is you can open a datalog and it shows an overlay in your tune of which cells the ECU is referencing. Really helps find in the fueling and timing tables where an issue is coming from. The white lines are showing you what cell in the fuel map it is on in the datalog.
(https://i.imgur.com/1b8uSQY.png)
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After calling around and emailing with ~5 shops that install sleeves - 2 local and 3 I'd have to ship the block to - most are recommending starting with a fresh block. MAST won't sleeve LS7 blocks as they've only done one and it didn't go well. TSP also recommends starting with a 5.3 truck block.
Steve @ RED would do it, but can't guarantee when I'd be able to even get on his list. I guess really backed up right now. Waiting 2 months with no guarantee of getting my block done doesn't fit my goals right now.
I'm going to just close my eyes and assemble the engine. Many have said it'll run fine and ls7 blocks move around a ton. Hopefully it seals up and doesn't have a ton of blow-by. It costs nothing but time at this point to put together and I have zero interest in starting with a fresh block right now. I want this to be the end all be all engine, but at this point I just need to move past it and see what it does.
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Long time but was able to get threw all 64 pages. Nice work.
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Long time but was able to get threw all 64 pages. Nice work.
Thanks man. I read through it all from the start recently and it was a good time. Glad I've kept records of the car. I'm excited to have the chance to have the engine out soon and maybe try to get it as clean as it was at the beginning.
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I cannot believe how much of a struggle it has been for the stupidest shit with this car. I can't keep water in this thing. I guess I should have replaced the radiator hoses when it overheated from the cracked surge tank.
I was 20 minutes deep into the canyons when the lower rad hose split and dumped all the water out. I only noticed because I pulled over to adjust the tune. Yolo'd it back to a gas station and my girlfriend rescued me with duct tape and water so we could get it home. I have a habit of ruining holidays with this car. I also smashed the oil pan on a dark offramp on Christmas Eve one year driving to her Uncle's lol.
If I broke something at least I have another engine ready to assemble. If it stays in one piece I think I have e85 to thank for keeping the chambers cooler than gasoline. I tried to coast as much as possible but there's only so much you can do.
(https://i.imgur.com/RBdF1sR.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rPxABrO.png)
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My ignition cut no lift shift tune worked great off my clutch pressure switch. If the engine still runs after all this I'll grab a video. Shit was cool. I was going to do one on the way home but that didn't happen.
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Any updates?
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Life has been wild since Covid. I still laugh at the title "LS7 build for 2020." Too much to list that put cars on a much lower priority both time and motivation wise, but I should be getting back to it here soon!
I tried my best to revive the engine after it lost the radiator hose, but something is unhappy. It needs to be disassembled to see what happened. It still runs and drives. I did a quick 5 mile cruise recently to drain the e85 and refill with 91 to prevent corrosion. It is a shame because I did get on it a couple times and the fuel/airflow numbers show it makes every bit of horsepower it did before, but it does get hot under load.
Interesting you bump this up though I have a new bullet coming for it, should be here in a couple weeks. The radical solid roller ls7 is still there and ready to assemble, and I will still get it together someday, but I want to enjoy the car again and a 650+whp solid roller race engine is not what I dream about when I think about sitting in local OC traffic. The LS7 build I can't even remember how updated I kept this thread, but it went wrong every step of the way. Machining that block was a disaster, and the bores are still not round as we want them. Enough people said just slap it together so that's what we're doing eventually.
A week or so ago I found a takeout LS7 w/ 55k miles and fresh heads at 45k. It did see a hard life owned by an HPDE instructor, but he has oil analysis records for every oil change and is very professional with his cars. It is well broken in, and won't see an easier life here.
I've ordered everything to swap everything to wet sump and get it in the car ASAP. I also am grinding a cam for it, 234/247 on 116+2 with .658/.651 lift.
No clue what it'll make for power, but I imagine it should be just as fast as the 242/250 cam in the 402. Honestly not concerned at all with how fast it'll be.
LS7 SBE 427, 11:1 comp
Stock ls7 heads
Stock intake (or Holley low pro sniper, undecided)
234/247, .658/.651" lift, 116+2 w/ PAC 1207x 700 lift springs
EWP, 10% UD ATI, 1 7/8" headers, RPS 28 pound carbon clutch and flywheel
A ported MSD would make this a 550+whp combo all day, but not worth the $2k and fitment challenges right now. I'm just grinding the cam to shift the powerband up to 4k-7k because I know a small/stock cam 4" stroke LS in an rx7 is not the jam.
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Sounds like a lot more then what your saying, nice summary though!
I do have some GPI ported oem ls7 heads if you wanted to go ported just hit me up.
Can't wait to see it driving again!
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Sounds like a lot more then what your saying, nice summary though!
I do have some GPI ported oem ls7 heads if you wanted to go ported just hit me up.
Can't wait to see it driving again!
Haha, nah I’m good on the heads. I won’t be taking the heads off or checking the bearings or anything. Close my eyes, slap a cam in it and run it. It’s a good running engine with proof I don’t need to mess up the plan. Knowing my dad and I the thing would be torn apart to “fix” something and 2 years later it still wouldn’t be running lmao.
I saw you post you’re having an engine built? Who’re you going with?
I could babble about a bunch of the other stuff that’s been going on but the top highlight is my wife and I got hitched last year! We’re both in relatively new exciting jobs and we house hunted really aggressively Dec-Feb. Got our teeth kicked in even with solid offers, but it is what it is. Luckily we own our condo that we’re in, and cars can always go on the back burner. Been dealt a few pretty rough hands recently with the good but we’re coming out the other side.
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Life has been wild since Covid. I still laugh at the title "LS7 build for 2020." Too much to list that put cars on a much lower priority both time and motivation wise, but I should be getting back to it here soon!
I tried my best to revive the engine after it lost the radiator hose, but something is unhappy. It needs to be disassembled to see what happened. It still runs and drives. I did a quick 5 mile cruise recently to drain the e85 and refill with 91 to prevent corrosion. It is a shame because I did get on it a couple times and the fuel/airflow numbers show it makes every bit of horsepower it did before, but it does get hot under load.
Interesting you bump this up though I have a new bullet coming for it, should be here in a couple weeks. The radical solid roller ls7 is still there and ready to assemble, and I will still get it together someday, but I want to enjoy the car again and a 650+whp solid roller race engine is not what I dream about when I think about sitting in local OC traffic. The LS7 build I can't even remember how updated I kept this thread, but it went wrong every step of the way. Machining that block was a disaster, and the bores are still not round as we want them. Enough people said just slap it together so that's what we're doing eventually.
A week or so ago I found a takeout LS7 w/ 55k miles and fresh heads at 45k. It did see a hard life owned by an HPDE instructor, but he has oil analysis records for every oil change and is very professional with his cars. It is well broken in, and won't see an easier life here.
I've ordered everything to swap everything to wet sump and get it in the car ASAP. I also am grinding a cam for it, 234/247 on 116+2 with .658/.651 lift.
No clue what it'll make for power, but I imagine it should be just as fast as the 242/250 cam in the 402. Honestly not concerned at all with how fast it'll be.
LS7 SBE 427, 11:1 comp
Stock ls7 heads
Stock intake (or Holley low pro sniper, undecided)
234/247, .658/.651" lift, 116+2 w/ PAC 1207x 700 lift springs
EWP, 10% UD ATI, 1 7/8" headers, RPS 28 pound carbon clutch and flywheel
A ported MSD would make this a 550+whp combo all day, but not worth the $2k and fitment challenges right now. I'm just grinding the cam to shift the powerband up to 4k-7k because I know a small/stock cam 4" stroke LS in an rx7 is not the jam.
So glad to hear this build will be getting some more love!
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Savage prank lol. My ls7 had a sex change on the ride over here.
After a few weeks of shipping delays it is safe at my dad's workplace. He'll get it home next week sometime and get moving on it.
(https://i.imgur.com/MZQUxLd.png)
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Lmao. Always love a good practical joke.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Very progressive.
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If your LS7 identifies as a FORD I guess I am supportive..we need to nurture the free spirit. :kiss:
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Too small of a box to hold a DOHC Ford 427 haha!
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Are you sticking with the 3.90 or whatever gear you have? over 500whp the 3.73-3.55 gearing makes the power usable but still nasty haha. 3.90 was a pain even with my 480hp.
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Yea I love my 3.90's but I'm on r-comps 100% of the time. Back when it only made ~460whp I used to have the MN12 GTO ratio T56 and the stock 4.10's which was literally shifting at 40/60/80mph in the first 3 gears which was insane, but silly fun punching it in 2nd gear and rowing two gears before you're even breaking the law too badly hahaha. I did MN6 ratio Magnum and 3.73's at the same time and the car felt neutered so I went back to 3.90's. The double gear swap took ~20% torque multiplication away in the first 3 gears. Now I've added enough power I think it suits it well topping out around 140mph in 4th.
My biggest pain point with the 3.90's is I've done multiple gearsets and they all make so much damn noise. There's no Ford Racing 3.90 gearset available, 3.73 or 4.10 is the jump. I have full MN6 ratios in my magnum so I have the .5 ratio 6th gear.
My 402 made 512whp/509 with the small cam, and I never dyno'd it with the big cam, but it would stick first gear with my tires on the street in both cases. If I use the same hp/cube as my 402 it would make 540+whp but that seems a little stout for how simple it'll be, but not out of the question I suppose. It will be plenty of power I'm not worried about that in the slightest. I might also eventually try running my holley low pro intake which will take ~30 ft lb out of the midrange, but extend the top end powerband to ~7500.
I am also swapping a more street friendly clutch into it. Grannas Racing sold me on this Tilton. Billet aluminum pressure plate with strapped floater and sprung hub. It gets rid of the noise and vibrations. I love the RPS carbon for performance, but once I put a bigger cam in the 402 the clutch noise was just way too obnoxious. It'll lose a little power from the clutch weight.
https://tiltonracing.com/product/st-246-twin-disc-clutch-kits/
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She's in good shape! The engine has been sitting a while and there were no plugs in it and the ports weren't taped up so we pulled the heads just to make sure it was ok inside and not full of rust. Cylinder bores look good, and it has some carbon built up..but as soon as I run some e85 through it the carbon will clean right up. The oil is clean and there's no signs of heat anywhere. Thrust clearance is good, and the rods move easily side to side..nothing is bound up.
Since the heads came off I just ordered some .040" thick head gaskets, and I'll run some short travel Johnson lifters I've had for a while on the shelf. Will need to install the cam and measure for pushrods.
The .040 gasket bumps compression to 11.4:1. The pistons were right at zero deck, so quench will be .040". With the heads are off...I'm really considering throwing on the ported heads I have for the other solid roller engine. With 63cc chambers it would raise compression to 12.3:1. DCR with my cam would be 8.56. Its a bit high for 91 octane but with flex fuel it would rip. I think a soft tune would still be safe on straight 91. Not sure I 100% believe the DCR calculation enough to trust that it'll run safely at over 12:1 on straight 91 octane.
(https://i.imgur.com/X5a8nmr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/68mLt4N.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/PcEJmkg.png)
Found ARP head bolts, dual springs, and aftermarket pushrods :yay:
(https://i.imgur.com/tTQeTzQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xJgIJDt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nGRz5ib.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BXL1LFn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VW4GC7n.png)
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Man som GPI ported, milled. and fixed heads would go so good on there :D
Looks well used and taken care of, nice score!!
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Great progress yesterday. Got everything thoroughly cleaned, carbon scraped, deck surfaces cleaned, heads assembled (my other set too), and the cam is in and degreed with the new wet sump oil pump. Also had to drill a 3/8 hole in the block for the dipstick.
Another nice surprise, it has Ferrea solid stainless exhaust valves already which is nice peace of mind. The guides checked out good as expected since they were just done 10k miles ago.
I had a set of new-ish and clean Ti intake valves so I swapped those in.
Pretty much ready to install the lifters, heads, measure for pushrods, oil pan, front cover and unless I'm forgetting something it'll be good to go! Gotta drag the FD up to my dad's to pull the engine and I have a few projects to tackle on the car as well.
Revised Deets:
LS7 SBE 427, 11.4:1
Comp low shock lobes 234/247, .665/.658" lift (1.82 ratio), 116+2
Stock ls7 heads w/ Ti intakes, Ferrea exhausts
4.150 .040" cometic gaskets
Johnson 2116SLR slow leakdown .093" travel
PAC 1207x .700" lift springs
TSP roller tip 1.82 rockers
Melling 10296 high volume/high pressure
Improved Racing Fbody pan trap door
Meziere EWP
ATI damper no underdrive
Tilton 246 twin disk organic clutch w/ sprung hub and strapped floaters
1 7/8" headers into dual 2.5" xpipe
(https://i.imgur.com/hw0XbPr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yXBu9C0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jd42M6y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/50ekSJO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/MZ9XPB0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BhE7XGF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HtJ7VBR.png)
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Nice this is going to be a near copy of mine! Can't wait to get your cam and clutch review!
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I'm excited too. The engine is super close! But man your build will put this one to shame are you kidding? Hah! Non-ported stock heads vs MMS 265's is a huge leap, plus if you can get that ported MSD to fit! What exhaust is on your car now? I'm thinking you'll need to upgrade for the 427..
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Looks real nice!
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Getting closer! Now lots to do on the car. I'm pretty pleased though it took a month from the day of teardown to putting it back together, and I think only 3 working days.
Slid the Johnson 2116LSR lifters in there. .093" travel, slow leakdown.
(https://i.imgur.com/TKuJ0oH.png)
Copper coat some .040" thick Cometics
(https://i.imgur.com/4uAA5Q6.png)
Shop "helper"
(https://i.imgur.com/WQczwG8.png)
Test fit the intake
(https://i.imgur.com/PNfan4I.png)
Fits like absolute garbage lol
(https://i.imgur.com/SW0oRqu.png)
Looks pretty cool though
(https://i.imgur.com/fcGWodZ.png)
Measured for pushrod length. The stock heads had some nice precision machining I'm at 7.950" for 12, and 7.965" for 4 to get .045" preload. Since I got some stronger lifters in there I'll try out the TSP roller tip rockers.
(https://i.imgur.com/s584MkN.png)
Gotta put that Improved Racing baffle, always.
(https://i.imgur.com/sMHQcW4.png)
And put to bed all sealed up.
(https://i.imgur.com/qLdtX5g.png)
Broke the damper installer putting the ATI balancer on, so it is getting honed and we'll give it a go again soon. Just have to order up some pushrods and I think it is pretty much ready.
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So, I forgot that in 2018 I test fit an LS3 version of this intake and the hood didn't close. I recall being optimistic I could cut the hood webbing and get the hood to shut, but I'm concerned about the throttle body.
I've always been a bit optimistic because it is ~1/2" shorter than a FAST102 which I know has been made to work, but the throttle body mounting higher may be a problem with the cable TB. DBW may work better, but I don't have a DBW ECU anymore.
If the throttle body doesn't fit I've thought about maybe extending the TB down closer to the air filter with a welded tube.
(https://i.imgur.com/kBS5rOr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1tBk6BQ.png)
You do gain a ton of clearance at the firewall. Even better to highlight the handiwork of the previous owner who did nothing to the car except take it apart, and mangle the firewall for some reason having never test fit an engine :(
I know people rag on these things, but I don't hate it...
(https://i.imgur.com/vGcr8Ea.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/cQviZVx.png)
I've been considering a vented hood for a long time. It pains me because I really do like the stock hood, but for cooling and higher speeds I think the vented hood helps. I've read multiple times that the VIS scoot hood adds some clearance under hood. You can definitely see the bulge, but no one has ever quantified how much clearance you gain. VIS is close to me so I may just see if I can do a cash price pick-up to save some money, and if it doesn't work I'll take the hit and resell it.
(https://i.imgur.com/1Lf57Sv.png)
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How will you correct the intake angle to the heads?
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We didn't try bolting it down, but I've read some people have similar mismatch and it just tightened up. Otherwise I'll have our local shop cut it to the correct angle. I didn't want to spend money on it until I knew if it would fit (or get reasonably close).
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I had to run three different length rods to get all the 2116 within +/- .035. something like 7.755 to 7.790".
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I had to run three different length rods to get all the 2116 within +/- .035. something like 7.755 to 7.790".
I was ready for it, but very surprised at how consistent they were. I only need two lengths. I’m not sure if the heads had a valvejob done or if it’s factory but they were all the same on one head, and the intakes were off just a hair, but all the same on the other head.
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Nice. Mine were all over the place.
I'll be curious how much that intake effects the low end. As well as the top.
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Weelllllll I got the last one in stock from VIS! They’ll drop it off today. Hopefully it does what I’m looking for. I don’t really want to cut my stock hood up, and I’ve wanted hood vents for a long time. Not stoked on losing the stock look, but I can always go back to stock.
They look good paint matched imo.
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Who's FD in the last photo? I saw that car on the road a couple months ago near me. I can tell my the rear flares
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No clue! I save pictures every once in a while for reference haha.
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Well, she ran for the last time before the tear down.
Good news is the VIS hood is pretty cool, and fits ok. It’s not latched in the pictures but I could push the front of it down. The hood seems too short? By quite a bit. The bumper gap is going to be big. The gaps to the fender and the shape seem spot on. All I can think is to slot the hinges and pull in forward. It’s at least a half inch short to the headlights and bumper, and unfortunately the lines are perfect at the windshield. I’ll figure it out later.
The intake clears. The height is about 7” from the valley plate. Bad news is the throttle body sticks up an inch higher than the intake and there’s no way in hell it’ll fit.
I’ve moved on with life. Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
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Looks good! On the hood I would loosen the bolts going into the hood on the hinges and the bolts going from the hinges to the body and pull it forward. I had to do this with my seibon. The gap at the rear is much less noticeable than the gap at the front bumper. You may also have to slide the headlight covers forward with it.
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Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
Yay! I will be doing this in 2 months so I will copy you :D
I need to purchase a TB yet. I didn't know Holley had a 105mm cable.
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It doesn’t work for your car, sell it to me [emoji12]
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Looks good! On the hood I would loosen the bolts going into the hood on the hinges and the bolts going from the hinges to the body and pull it forward. I had to do this with my seibon. The gap at the rear is much less noticeable than the gap at the front bumper. You may also have to slide the headlight covers forward with it.
That makes sense. I've seen pictures that had the big gap like I'm going to have, and then I've seen some where the bumper and hood are almost touching. I knew there had to be adjustment somewhere. I said the same thing about the body lines at the windshield that matters much less. The bumper gap is going to be fugly as is. Luckily the headlight gap and the bumper gap seem pretty much the same so I'll just need it to come forward about a half an inch. Are the hinge to body bolts under the fender, or can you get to them?
I'm pretty confident about the MSD with this hood. Still not stoked to cut up my stock hood, so I'll see about making all this work. I have plans to redo my bumpsteer and add some more compensation at the wheel end so if my engine needs to come down a little I know I can. The hood fitting a 7" tall intake is very promising though. We can actually fit pretty big intake manifolds in these cars, but the throttle body and intake duct are at a terrible pinch point since the hood is so short.
I didn't realize all my pictures uploaded sideways lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/Vn2vDc3.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kJC6l61.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AYCgO1H.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1TLCKKu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ovxJGLI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/bc0BFat.png)
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Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
Yay! I will be doing this in 2 months so I will copy you :D
I need to purchase a TB yet. I didn't know Holley had a 105mm cable.
It doesn’t work for your car, sell it to me [emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It doesn’t work for your car, sell it to me [emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I called VIS and they had one left in stock. I live right near their HQ, and they had a distributor they referred me to. I had it in a couple days. Not sure if you'll have the same service in Canada :(
Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
Yay! I will be doing this in 2 months so I will copy you :D
I need to purchase a TB yet. I didn't know Holley had a 105mm cable.
Yea it is this one. I got it for not even half that much 2nd hand. Holy shit it has gone up in price! Lol. Might as well get a motion raceworks or something, or just an el cheapo copycat. Holley has some sniper branded ones, but you can probably get the same part for half as much off ebay or elsewhere. You definitely want a 102mm+. 102 vs 105 is next to near the same.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/throttle_bodies/gm_throttle_bodies/parts/112-581
For that much money I'd 110% be going DBW.
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You need to take the fenders off to get to the hinge bolts unfortunately
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Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
Yay! I will be doing this in 2 months so I will copy you :D
I need to purchase a TB yet. I didn't know Holley had a 105mm cable.
It doesn’t work for your car, sell it to me [emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It doesn’t work for your car, sell it to me [emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I called VIS and they had one left in stock. I live right near their HQ, and they had a distributor they referred me to. I had it in a couple days. Not sure if you'll have the same service in Canada :(
Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
Lots of work left to do just in turning wrenches and a pretty long list of “while you’re in there” things, but chipping away at it.
Yay! I will be doing this in 2 months so I will copy you :D
I need to purchase a TB yet. I didn't know Holley had a 105mm cable.
Yea it is this one. I got it for not even half that much 2nd hand. Holy shit it has gone up in price! Lol. Might as well get a motion raceworks or something, or just an el cheapo copycat. Holley has some sniper branded ones, but you can probably get the same part for half as much off ebay or elsewhere. You definitely want a 102mm+. 102 vs 105 is next to near the same.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/throttle_bodies/gm_throttle_bodies/parts/112-581
For that much money I'd 110% be going DBW.
Ugh DBW so much want so lazy on switching ECUs….
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I prefer drive by cable
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Good news is the VIS hood is pretty cool, and fits ok. It’s not latched in the pictures but I could push the front of it down. The hood seems too short? By quite a bit. The bumper gap is going to be big. The gaps to the fender and the shape seem spot on. All I can think is to slot the hinges and pull in forward. It’s at least a half inch short to the headlights and bumper, and unfortunately the lines are perfect at the windshield. I’ll figure it out later.
The intake clears. The height is about 7” from the valley plate. Bad news is the throttle body sticks up an inch higher than the intake and there’s no way in hell it’ll fit.
I’ve moved on with life. Going to see what it takes to make an MSD atomic intake fit. Mark GNX7 has one on his car with my same Holley 105mm tb. With the extra clearance from the hood I don’t think I’ll have much struggle. Firewall clearance TBD I might need to shave the firewall lip.
I might go with the same hood. Debating between that and ronin mazdaspeed one. Anyone have any aero data for the VIS? I am hoping to extract heat and lower lift, man the stocker bounces around. I think both clear the TB fine.
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I think the VIS scoot hood is the only hood that offers more clearance for aftermarket intake manifolds.
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I actually turned some wrenches over the holiday week. For some reason our drag car with the 415 LS3 tore up a thrust bearing. My FD is strategically in the way in my dad's garage so we have some motivation to get it done now. It's only been 2+ years since I broke it...lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/eexhjBe.jpg)
This thing unfortunately is wasted. Thank you for the 25k very hard miles.
(https://i.imgur.com/mRkcQeq.jpg)
Dropped the diff out for the 50th time. Swapping from noisy ass 3.90's to Ford Racing 3.73's. Also paying someone else to do it this time. I can't handle another noisy diff without someone to blame lmao.
(https://i.imgur.com/HNqe3H8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jr5H9mP.jpg)
Radium has earned a customer for life. These are the nicest aftermarket parts I have ever purchased - quality, aesthetic, fit and finish, and obviously performance. Everything is impeccable. Biiig fanboy. It will be very nice to drive this car properly with consistent fuel getting to the engine lol.
I'm putting dual pressure pumps in it, but I'll only activate the 2nd one under high load with high e85 content. I can also have it automatically enable if the fuel pressure drops like my other pump breaks.
I think this engine can run full e85 off one pump, but if I ever put a bigger engine in the car it'll be on edge with a single pump on e85.
(https://i.imgur.com/6nvWh3V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wWNXpuM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xfHpY4Z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OnU90pU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DQIXU1I.jpg)
Couple shots of the ls7 - all buttoned up. Valvetrain assembled with custom Manton pushrods, the Johnson short travels lifters, PAC springs and TSP roller tip rockers.
ATI balancer on and timed for TDC.
Test fitting the Holley sniper low pro intake. It fits under the new hood with turning the throttle body upside down. I kinda dig the look. Little different. I won't have a problem spinning this valvetrain 7500+ if it wants to make power there.
(https://i.imgur.com/b9R6OaF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/o8EMw1L.jpg)
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Nice to see some updates man! :)
You excited to tune it once it's all back together!?
Thing is gonna rip!!
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I have been assembling my Radium fuel hat also. Very nice quality. I don't blame you getting someone else to do the diff. I wouldn't want to do it again. Having said that, mine is leaking from one of the axles already grrrr.
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I have been assembling my Radium fuel hat also. Very nice quality. I don't blame you getting someone else to do the diff. I wouldn't want to do it again. Having said that, mine is leaking from one of the axles already grrrr.
I have been assembling my Radium fuel hat also. Very nice quality. I don't blame you getting someone else to do the diff. I wouldn't want to do it again. Having said that, mine is leaking from one of the axles already grrrr.
If I'm remembering correctly this is the 5th set of gears going in this car :banghead: lol. I'm an idiot. Sucks about the leak! You can get to the seal from the outside, but you do have to pull the axle. Are you sure you have the correct diameter axle seal for your stubs? When I went to the explorer diff I had to find an axle seal that fit the larger housing bore, but had the cobra axle diameter.
Nice to see some updates man! :)
You excited to tune it once it's all back together!?
Thing is gonna rip!!
Yea I'm looking forward to getting it all tuned! I barely got up to speed with the Holley software and started adding fun stuff like flex fuel and no-lift shift and then it broke. I'm going to have to re-learn it all again. I have new gears, clutch and brand new magnum-F going in also so I need to do plenty of break-in miles that can double as street tuning miles.
The Holley is super easy to tune with overall and I don't expect any real challenges with this camshaft. The only thing I'm dreading is the idle tuning I really struggled with the drive by cable throttle tuning last time it never seemed to repeat. I was also fighting with a TSP cam notorious for terrible tuning characteristics 242/250 on 114 with old lobe design.
I should be able to take it to my buddy's rotary shop to get on his dyno that would be a blast.
I know I'm adding more cubes, but going from 3.90's to 3.73's and also this short runner intake I'm really curious how it feels on the butt dyno. I think it is going to feel neutered a little haha. I know for sure it'll be easier to drive with a little less torque. The powerband should feel awesome in the car too these short runner intakes have a super flat and wide torque curve because you don't get the typical lump of torque around 4500rpm with the long runners.
Bench racing it, if I take the same hp/cube as my 403 the 427 will make 540whp - but stock LS7 heads should be better than stock LS3, this intake should definitely make more hp with a higher peak power rpm, and the cam is bigger than when the old engine made 512whp. 0* overlap 226/242 on 117+5 .60x lift vs 234/247 on 116+2 .660" lift. All that leads me to think it should make well more than 540whp.
Flip side...I don't see stock headed c6z's making much more than 550whp.
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Glad to see your back at it! Getting these cars to where we want is a Challenge. Good luck, and the one thing I’ve always struggled with is tuning, so I leave it to the pros.
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He’s baaaaack! Excited to hear about the new clutch!
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Good to see it's almost back on the road. That is a pretty small cam. I see you changing it out for something bigger in the future :)
I'm also getting more motivated to get my RX-7's running. They have been collecting dust with the parts nestled next to them also doing the same.
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Thanks Mark. Its definitely nice to start taking parts off shelves that I wasted money on multiple years ago lol. I tried to keep this one pretty mild. The 242/250 cam in my 402 was a pain. I think it should still make power to 7500 which will keep me happy.
The shop still has the diff 2 weeks later. Here I thought they'd have it back to me in a day or two...once it has rear wheels again we can drop the engine and trans in and start wrapping everything up. Looking at August I think it is going to be mostly a wash unfortunately with work and other travel.
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The rate of my progress could be tracked against the melting icecaps. However, not as bad as some who might one day be compared against the progression of the heat death of the universe.
That said, my car once again has a diff, axles and suspension, as well as a not-broken engine sitting in it lol.
Fresh 3.73's in the 8.8, and new polyurethane bushings that sir Vomit found.
I remember once when all this stuff was shiny and new haha. The car is starting to look its age underneath.
(https://i.imgur.com/MrN3th7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xWLzHFx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s8FmelC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BLdHSRV.jpg)
Another new addition, Tilton ST-246 twin disk clutch. I weighed it in at 45 pounds which hurts a little compared to the RPS carbon I tried, but it has a strapped floater and a sprung hub. I couldn't take the NVH anymore it felt like the whole car was going to shake apart at 1800rpm, and the rollover noise at idle was super loud. My old monster LT1-S twin had the same vibration and noise so I can't blame the RPS it was honestly a great clutch otherwise.
Dropped it in with no trans attached this time just a bellhousing. Boy was that easy compared to fighting it with the trans attached.
(https://i.imgur.com/uqJo3ot.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FNt8LWT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7hduYly.jpg)
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Does that cover just have one big plug? Mine has a second 3/4" MPT plug.
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No there's a smaller fill port that you set the oil level with. The big one is to drain.
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Funny you had issues with the LT1-S. I got one of the first when it was released. Had the same vibration. The PP holes and pins were off center something like .050"!!! Took it to a local machine shop and had them redrilled and balanced. Like butter. Steve at monster didn't believe me until I showed him the run out with the whole setup on a lathe.
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Can't have an off center PP hole
I think I got an early one too...maybe it has a similar issue, but I've now had 2 clutches without sprung hubs behave the same way. I have a growing number of people confirming the same problem.
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Can't have an off center PP hole
I think I got an early one too...maybe it has a similar issue, but I've now had 2 clutches without sprung hubs behave the same way. I have a growing number of people confirming the same problem.
An off center PP hole is always a mess!
I'm surprised the RPS did it though. If this DCT thing doesn't work out I was planning on running one.
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I have an RPS clutch as well. I haven’t noticed that issue. I do have vibrations due to the power train being mostly solid mounted but nothing related to the clutch that I’ve noticed.
Btw now you will get more noise and vibration from your diff due to the urethane mounts.
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/O968KfqG2pU
Went back and found a vid I took from 2018 with the LT1-S lol. The RPS did the same thing. Going uphill or dragging the brake at 1800 in 4th and loading it up some it would really vibrate like a mofo. Not like poly vs rubber bushings, but like the entire cabin is resonating.
I have poly bushings in the upper mounts of the rear end already. I'm happy to put poly bushes in the front ears. The factory rubber explorer ones are sloppy as hell and contribute to wheel hop. The diff noise I was griping about was horrible gear whine from improper gear setup. I've always read, but never trusted that aftermarket gears are whiney and the Ford Racing are quiet. Maybe it was me, maybe it was the gears...but it was bad a few times.
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Great to see your progress here!! Yea the Ford gears are the quietest in my experience. That is not to say they are quiet.. but better for sure.
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Great to see your progress here!! Yea the Ford gears are the quietest in my experience. That is not to say they are quiet.. but better for sure.
Thanks man - glad to see you back posting a bit! I just got an ad for power tour west I didn't know they were doing one out here. I'd be curious to hear how your experience is.
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Great to see your progress here!! Yea the Ford gears are the quietest in my experience. That is not to say they are quiet.. but better for sure.
Thanks man - glad to see you back posting a bit! I just got an ad for power tour west I didn't know they were doing one out here. I'd be curious to hear how your experience is.
Thank you!
I think the info for Power Tour West came out 3 weeks ago, and you couldn't even sign up until a week and a half ago. I really don't even know the schedule, so we have several hotel reservations for 1 or 2 nights in Vegas so we are covered. :yay:
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I ordered my 8.8 complete assembled from grannas with the ford racing gears, and I literally cannot hear the gears. My diff is solid mounted too. There is zero whine at all. No one could believe it lol.
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I ordered my 8.8 complete assembled from grannas with the ford racing gears, and I literally cannot hear the gears. My diff is solid mounted too. There is zero whine at all. No one could believe it lol.
Mine is silent as well. Cobra 8.8 with stock LSD.
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Do you guys also have solid metal subframe and diff mount bushings?
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Superpro rear and stock Ford front here.
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Mine were poly upper and rubber front. Now poly in both.
My gear noise was simply from a bad gear mesh. It was the classic super high pitched whine at specific speeds on accel side. Of course right at highway speeds.. all of my gear sets up until now have been aftermarket though, not Ford.
Yellow is the new setup. Blue was one of a few previous attempts on setup. One set of gears I pulled out was worn significantly different than the pattern that went into it.
I can't say the new pattern is what I expected to see...but what do I know I've done 3 of them wrong now.
(https://i.imgur.com/nohDhy1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/M3vNJq5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BYGNdXy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/orqkv2N.png)
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Superpro rear and stock Ford front here.
Poly and rubber bushings quiet things down a lot.
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Do you guys also have solid metal subframe and diff mount bushings?
I have delrin front and rear
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I've been getting a few more days here and there to get some work done.
Got the new Magnum F in the car during Thanksgiving week. This was one of those 2 hour jobs that took an entire day. I didn't have the clutch plates aligned well enough and took three attempts to get the trans in.
(https://i.imgur.com/wIDbGyj.jpg)
This last weekend I was able to wrap up redoing my steering correction. This has been on my list for a long time now that the car has 18's on it. My old 17x9 RPF1's barely had enough room for the Samberg correction.
Previously I had maxed out the Samberg correction to the inner barrel of the rim. We had added a .100" thick washer, and ground the castle nut down. Also, I put some old .120" GM alignment shims under my rack mount. Everything was about 3 red c-hairs away from hitting the rim and the oil pan.
Back when I made these changes I had borrowed the Longacre bumpsteer tool from Matt on the forum. The bumpsteer with the Samberg correction was awful, and even still measured quite badly after increasing the correction by .220".
Initially, the toe was changing anywhere from ~.070" - .080" every 1 inch of wheel travel. After shimming, it reduced down to .036 to .049" per inch of wheel travel. The extra shims combined with some toe-in and the car drove a world better. It still amazed me that over 5 inches of travel the toe would change on one side by about 3/8" lol.
I don't have the bumpsteer tool to measure anymore, but I threw some extra shims at it. I might check someday with a laser pointer, but I'm confident this will be another step in the right direction. If I go too far with the shims, it'll change the bumpsteer to a toe-in instead of toe-out, which in a straight line would be very stable, but in a turn under compression could add a condition where the car turns more than the steering wheel is applied - could be good, could be bad. I can make changes by .062" at a time with the AN washer stack.
An interesting question, and I know Ronin has looked at this, is zero bumpsteer what we should be truly striving for or is the chassis/suspension geometry designed around having some toe out in dynamic conditions. All I know is the original setup was quite bad with the Samberg correction unmodified. I think of toe alignment in regards to impacting your front end responsiveness - toe out causing a faster turn-in, and toe in causing a slower turn-in. In the rear, impacting the stability in a tradeoff for willingness to change directions. I never considered that bumpsteer is actually a chassis tuning tool and that you might actually WANT to have toe change in dynamic situations.
This is the Pinto kit that others have pioneered, I think Andy Piche was the first to do a deep dive with it. I did remove the 1/8" shims from under my steering rack, and then added enough at the rod end to gain another .160" of correction. I expect the bumpsteer to be reduced by at least 50% again. I took the rack shims out in case I need to lower my engine some for more hood clearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/YA4igIG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jaCEiBW.jpg)
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Also this last weekend we got the solid roller ls7 engine fully assembled finally. This was the shortblock that kicked everything off in 2018, and then covid happened, I blew up the engine in the car etc etc. Never said I was good at making decisions, but there's now two ready to run LS7's in this picture for a car that hasn't run in 3 years. At least FD prices have gone up lmao.
My dad was able to retire back in May and found some time to take this thing from a pile of blueprinted parts to an assembled longblock for me.
This engine isn't going in the FD at this time, but the original plan was to take it to Texas Mile someday. In the near future here it might go into one of our drag race cars. It will be on the engine dyno at Westech 1st week of March, or potentially even a little sooner. Hoping to see 750+ with the CID intake on it :)
429" LS7 build, 12.5:1 compression, wet sump conversion
LS7 Block honed to 4.130"
LS7 crank polished and checked
Factory Ti rods in good condition and ARP bolts
Mahle PowerPak flat top pistons
1/1/2 mm gas ported total seal rings.
BES 285cc ported LS7 heads, new factory Ti valves and Ferrea stainless exhaust
Cometic 4.190x.051" head gaskets
T&D steel pedestal mount adjustable roller tip 1.8 rockers
PAC 1237x solid roller valve spring kit, each one checked and shimmed to .085-100" clearance from bind
Comp Cams 258/272 .775/.756" lift 113 LSA +3* advance - their new low shock solid roller LGW/LGX lobes
Manley 3/8 to 5/16" tapered 7.825" long pushrods, .145" wall.
Isky Red Zone bushed solid lifters
Melling 10355 oil pump
Mains drilled for oil squirters
Improved Racing crank scraper, windage tray, and trap door baffle
Will dyno with a CID 4.5 and 1050 Dominator
(https://i.imgur.com/MMTLcRZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uHUtmM5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lNdSllf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1qOVAIe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BOcR7i4.jpg)
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Without totally changing the front suspension I don't think eliminating bump is even possible. I just try to make it as even during compression and extension. With the laser pointer it ends up looking like an even crescent moon rather than a bent over tree. HA
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You should have no issue making 750 when mine did 680 with a baby cam compared to that hog you have LOL
I wish I could figure out bumpsteer that is the last piece of the puzzle I need to make my car more stable at high speed in a rough road.
What engine is in the FD then? 403 still? How is the new clutch and 1800 rpm vibe?
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What subframe and bumpsteer kit do you have?
No, there're two ls7's now lol. The one sitting in the car is a relatively mild cam only type deal meant to replace the 402 as a streetable everyday type engine. Conservatively probably ~530whp? Expecting maybe in the range of ~460wtq with the sniper intake so it should be fast, but put the power down easy. Hoping to see it rev out to 7500 at least maintaining peak power to make the sniper low pro worthwhile. I do kind of wish I had ported the heads, but it is what it is.
LS7 SBE 427, 11.4:1
Comp low shock lobes 234/247, .665/.658" lift (1.82 ratio), 116+2
Stock ls7 heads w/ Ti intakes, Ferrea exhausts
4.150 .040" cometic gaskets
Johnson 2116SLR slow leakdown .093" travel
PAC 1207x .700" lift springs
TSP roller tip 1.82 rockers
Melling 10296 high volume/high pressure
Meziere EWP
Holley sniper low pro intake
I'm trying to knock out the more fabrication/custom jobs as they're more time consuming and put up the most roadblocks and curveballs. Just hard when it is only one day here and there. This turned into quite a lot of changes at once to the car.
Mount and plumb my catch can by the passenger firewall
Wire in the new fuel pumps in the surge tank
Mount the terminator X behind the passenger kick panel hopefully, somewhere else if that doesn't work out
Wire in the holley I/O expansion module and mount it somewhere
Wrap and tuck the wiring harness best I can after finding a home for the ECU and I/O module
Throttle cable bracket for the Holley sniper
Fix the carbon hood alignment...front fenders need to come off to adjust
New high pressure fuel lines in the engine bay, mount the flex fuel sensor somewhere in the return line
Mount and wire up the Holley LCD screen
Otherwise there's just a lot of mechanic nuts and bolts type work ahead just putting the car back together like radiator, AC, headers, exhaust, driveshaft etc. That stuff should go relatively quick.
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If you're not running loose bearing clearances I'd ditch the high volume pump. I kept sucking the pan "dry" around 4th gear after stabbing it in 2nd. I say "dry" because I have my safety set at 40psi at the rpm it was dipping. Never went below 35psi but it wasn't consistent until I went to just higher pressure.
F body pan. IR baffle and scraper. Over filled 1qt.
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That's an interesting note. I went with the 10296 because I have plans for external oil coolers someday. I do also have used bearings in an engine that saw a lot of HPDE track days.
The solid roller I went with the extra high volume pump because of the oil squirters, the 10355. 33% more than the 295.
My 402 I ran out of oil pressure more times than I'd like to say. I could punch it in a straight line and I could watch the oil pressure dip. This was with a ported LS2 pump. If the oil wasn't all the way topped up or a little over full it would not have stable pressure even going straight. I cringe to think about the times I wasn't looking at the gauge and oil pressure took a nosedive lol. Hey, it lasted over 25k hard miles so I guess it was just right.
The 296 pump vs the 295 is only 18% more volume per revolution it would really surprise me if that was causing you to lose oil pressure. Did you swap to a 295 and it resolved your issue? What is your oil pressure at redline before it starts dipping in the pull?
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If you're running squirters the 296 makes sense.
The 295 did help but it was still happening but not as bad. I'm curious if the lokar dipstick is lying to me. I have the copo spring and get about 65psi otherwise.
I did total rebuild of the car last summer and it needs an oil change. Now that the system has all the air out of it I'll do an oil change and track how much I put in.
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Got a little more wrenching done yesterday. Nothing too exciting just knocking a few things off the todo list, but I was happy with how this experiment turned out. Swapping from a Magnum to Magnum-F the driveshaft length needs to increase by ~2 inches (whose doesn't?)
Anyway, I searched for quite a long time until I was able to find this pinion flange spacer meant for rock crawling people whose extra suspension travel and articulation pulls the yoke out of the trans.
I thought it was going to be pretty hokey, but turns out it is a really nice piece. One piece billet aluminum with tight fitting registers on both the pinion flange and the driveshaft flange, and shouldered grade 12.9 bolts at the perfect length.
I doubt there's too many out there swapping from a magnum to magnum-f, but maybe it'll help someone.
(https://i.imgur.com/QyQHY7P.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/g0NcMhw.png)
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It's not stupid if it works.
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probably way cheaper than getting your driveshaft redone/
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I've made several driveshaft spacers like that for various builds. Easy to make with a lathe and mill or drill press with rotary table to drill the bolt holes accurately.
Never a problem, and yes, definitely cheaper than modifying the driveshaft.
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Obligatory 4/20 update on page 69 lol...nice
It's really close! I've been crushing it at work this year so I've been sneaking away on some Fridays to get some work done. Quite a bit more work since the last update even though it doesn't look like much...shit just takes time. Idk how people like Blake and Mr. Esser just pop out these gorgeous vehicles with tons of fabrication lol.
Next time it'll fire up. The timing pointer is in the way for mounting the alternator. Need to fire it up with a spare battery and check the timing, and then get it the rest of the way buttoned up. I want to check timing accuracy, and also timing phase with revs to make sure the Holley is dead on. It won't be driving yet because one of the many changes is a TurnOne PS pump which requires making a new power steering line before I can drive the car, but should be able to get that done locally.
I'm trying to get it driveable so I can spend time breaking in all the new parts...rear gears, trans, clutch and valvetrain, and also get it back to my own house so I can plug away on it in the evenings getting some of the longer term work done.
Before it drives:
- Power steering line
- Intake duct
- Accessory drive (might need a new belt length)
- Brake and clutch fluid flush and bleed
- Final nuts and bolts on a few things
I've procrastinated the most painful part of the rebuild, but was on the top of my list...to mount and tuck the Holley ECU and hide the excess harness. I also now have an expansion I/O module I need to mount somewhere as my super basic combo maxed out the 4 available on the termi-x. A speedo input automatically nukes one, and then I had flex fuel sensor, and a clutch pressure switch and something else I can't remember lol. My tune files are on an old laptop and I set the thing up 3+ years ago so I need to do some digging.
I know for I/O's that AC control takes 1-2, and I've added a second fuel pump I only want to trigger to run only under certain conditions like high load, high E content, or if one pump fails.
Can be done later:
- Holley harness nightmare
- Holley screen setup/mounting
- Hood fitment
- AC install and Holley integration...old lines had chronic leaks might want to redo some stuff
- Catch can mounting
- Engine bay beautification lol - I'd like to do some engine bay and maybe fuel rail covers
This Holley low pro has been a vision for years and it did not disappoint on how it came together. Super stoked to be using the factory mazda throttle cable! Mounting the throttle body upside down I feel like was a pretty unique solution and packaging wise turned out great. The intake also hides quite a bit of the bulky Holley LS swap harness. After all this work I really hope it doesn't suck in action. A lot of work would have to be redone to move away from this intake at this point, and other intake options like the MSD atomic are just as difficult to fit (also $$$$$$$$).
Radium saved the day packaging wise with their awesome swivel banjo fittings. I think the fittings cost more than the rails do lol.
I was not pleased that my very nice and nearly new 80lb/hr Siemens Deka fuel injectors do not fit into the Holley injector bungs. Luckily....in 2010 I bought some freshly enlarged FIC LS3 injectors for $150 and kept them on the shelf.
I know this intake isn't everyone's cup of tea, but with some work it has actually turned out quite nice. Giving up 30-40 ft lb is going to be an interesting trade, but I think will have a really huge impact on the experience of driving the car. Not sure where peak power will be with this smallish cam, but it should carry revs to infinity. I wouldn't be opposed to setting a 7800 chip on this thing if it pulls there. It could be in the range of ~530whp and 480-490 ft lb. Not really sure...can't find any reliable comparisons. I've seen people make well over 600whp with this intake I know it can support some serious power if you have the guts to rev it out.
(https://i.imgur.com/akdFDrq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ri3rWnM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/H5uWPu0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/H6P1cPZ.png)
Flex fuel sensor tucked behind the plenum in the return line came out really clean.
(https://i.imgur.com/yrAwiYq.png)
No changes under here, but have always loved this stainless dual exhaust my dad built. 7 liters is really going to start pushing it on the dual 2.5", but redoing this is never going to be a high priority. Maybe if I ever need to a big single race exhaust from the headers back.
(https://i.imgur.com/3b5mAXy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/COSpuXU.png)
This made me feel like I was back literally 10 years ago still with no clue how to make a hood close lol this is my old intake duct that worked fine with the LS3 intake. I had envisioned that the taller throttle body and slight downward angle would help the situation, but so far taller != better. If I keep cutting the silicone it'll wind up too short center to center. Ordered up some new couplers and a piece of tube to see what I can hack together. Have always wanted to draw something up in CAD and print a duct to actually fit better, or maybe a custom filter altogether. The carbon is pretty, but man this shroud and duct situation leaves a lot to be desired. Should be pretty simple, just found it to be a comical throwback lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/WUd9CeA.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/cFg9DUv.jpg)
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Some 3d printing with 100% infill might be necessary for the intake. I assume you've closed the hood.
What cam again?
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Some 3d printing with 100% infill might be necessary for the intake. I assume you've closed the hood.
What cam again?
That'd be a pisser wouldn't it? Lol. Bitter sweet but yea I got a VIS scoot style hood. The intake tube can come up into the front duct but I'd like to avoid it sticking out if I can. I've wanted hood vents for ages, and I do like the style, but I'll miss the sleekness of the stock hood. If this is a long term setup I'll paint the hood white. I tried asking a couple shops if they'd make me a hood without the front vent but it wasn't happening.
Not latched here.
(https://i.imgur.com/0d9uCbo.png)
The cam I ground is super close to yours if I remember right. Comp low shock lobes 234/247, .665/.658" lift (1.82 ratio), 116+2
(https://i.imgur.com/tQKvQZ3.png)
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White hood with carbon accents look really nice.
That cam is quite close to mine. I'd be curious how yours carries with that intake. Mine is the typical lightly ported msd.
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From what I've seen the low profile intakes should peak similar to a single plane intake, but carry further past peak
There's one dude with a 388 LS7 with the sniper low pro that made ~680whp and went very fast in a heavy Fbody to back up the power. I've not really seen anyone else with a serious engine combo and one of these intakes.
All I did was stick a tape measure into the plenum after it was already bolted down, but from best I can tell the bell mouth is 3" and my estimation then is the runner entry is 2.5" diameter. The runners are 4.3" long.
A 2.5" circle has a CSA of 4.91 sq inch and I think the port flange CSA is going to be in the range of ~3 sq in. The ports didn't have any significant mismatch and the size is relatively close to a stock ls7 port.. Stock LS7 heads at 259cc runner volume have an MCSA of ~2.8 sq in. This close to the port flange it would actually be better if the runner opening was more in the range of 2.25" which would be a CSA of 3.98 sq in - honestly still too much taper - but if you ported the heads up to 2.9-3.0 MCSA would probably be in the right range.
They very may well be 2.25" my measurement was extremely unreliable and I didn't think to measure it sooner. They are very tapered though - more than any rule of thumb I've seen. I don't expect any benefit from runner length tuning with these super short runners. Harmonic tuning doesn't start to help until ~8500 rpm and are probably not actually in tune until 9k+. They just offer a dead straight shot from the intake to the plenum with super low flow losses.
(https://i.imgur.com/exBsxUu.png)
I've done a lot of time wasting thinking about ITB's, runner diameter and lengths for intake manifolds and 2.5"/63.5mm is right in the right wheelhouse for a 427 to have a consistent taper down to the MCSA at the throat IF the throttle body is at a more typical ~6-7 inches from the port flange. Most kits you'll find are 50mm or about 2" - if you're lucky 55mm. It always gets on my nerves to see intake setups with throttle body diameter less than the valve throat size, but the LS7 2.2" intake valve makes it tough.
In the end, I'm hoping for the right power delivery more than power levels. It has been something I've been chasing for a decade haha. Even at just low 500 whp the car was really outrageously when driven in full anger on a canyon road. The huge cam in the 402 definitely made it pull to 7400rpm which was fun, but I don't want a hog ass cam. I just want the power delivery to match the nature of the car, and have it be rewarding to rev out instead of torque around at 3500 rpm through the twisties. I'm fine with torquey - but think BMW S65 and not your Silverado that got you to the track lol.
I'm also hoping the intake doesn't make any weird noises or cause any tuning problems lol.
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I pretty much wanted the exact same thing. Power to carry to redline. Not a dog down low and a mildish cam. Queue the need for displacement.
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Progress looks good, I kinda like those intake manifolds, they look nice at least. :D
Radium fittings aren't cheap, but damned if they don't have the parts I need most of the time, and their quality is really nice. I've got a ton of their stuff on the Mustang, and a little on the Aston as well.
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Yeah I have become a Radium fanboy ever since I got the in-tank surge setup. Always loved the look of their parts, but the fit and finish is amazing for aftermarket after finally getting my hands on the stuff. Ordering AN fittings from Summit feels like Russian roulette it is nice to have a reliable source.
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Next update is either going to be a video of the thing running, or a part out.
I managed to fry something pretty good. I connected the battery leads and didn't realize the alternator wire was leaning on the engine mount giving a dead short into the engine/chassis. Smoked something bad either under or inside the car, and the Terminator X is no spark no fuel on cranking. Haven't been able to find the culprit yet and ran out of time to diagnose as I was pretty much at the end of my day already. It has been driving me crazy and I think I might be taking a half day here to go work on it some more lol.
Super fun to get to the finish line and create more work of the worst kind - electrical diagnosis :punch:
I haven't drank since new years but oh boy has it been on my mind since I did this one lmao.
I have a few solid days more work into the thing, but not a lot of pictures. Lots of finishing touches on fuel lines, adding relays, cleaning up little things like welding the radiator shroud back on from a failed tack weld etc. Just fiddly finishing things, and fixing some small gripes while it is torn apart.
Ordered up some cheapy couplers and a tube off amazon and got something on here that should work. If needed will squish the tube a bit on the top side, but I think this ought to fit and will get me going.
(https://i.imgur.com/YsVr9QH.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Oo588MI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/PeWPo42.png)
Took a break and drew up some fuel rail covers. I'd like to make these out of carbon I think it'd look great.
(https://i.imgur.com/t26czfC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/dO0aSbh.png)
I also took a ton of measurements of the shroud and TB and drew up their locations in CAD. I took a stab at a couple duct designs, but this is my buddy's rendition who will be the one to print it as well. It's looking pretty sick and fitting my vision exactly. I ordered a C6 stock style filter that will be easy to adapt to the shroud. Once the filter finally arrives I can take some measurements and finish up the prototype.
(https://i.imgur.com/oH3CGY8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EyjVFUw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ze00LWX.png)
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So. Now I feel like I’m getting trolled lol. I said no video of it running = partout.
It ran.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Mg2WNW5FJxE?si=bLKqf1ZeIwfl-IEW
But it won’t restart lmao! Two hours of troubleshooting and I’m done for the day again. It’s not getting an rpm signal while cranking. I have no idea why it would’ve worked once and not again another ~15 attempts at cranking it.
Sounds good though! Engine was smooth, no noises and seemed pretty quiet honestly. It was idling at 1150. I really want to hear this thing warmed up and idling around 800rpm I’m sad that didn’t happen today.
Also my short circuit situation…I found the smoke point. The current traveled down into the diff, out the axles, into the rotors and brake pads and lit up the ebrake cable like a resistive heater. Saved my wiring I guess lmao but the cable stretched so it has no tension anymore. I need to replace the cable. All things considered not a bad outcome.
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Ok, you just set a new standard for short circuit weirdness!
That is strange about the intermittent rpm signal, glad it's doing it now instead of later on the road.
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The hood looks great! I do agree with others, paint it and just leave the carbon vents. I’ve tried to buy this hood so many times and no one wants to ship it to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Great progress. I lit my interior on fire in my FC when I forgot to remove a test lead from the battery once...
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Yikes lol. Yea my wife was with me when it started to smoke. We both got mustard gassed trying to look in the car for the source of smoke lmao. It was like a full face of nitro, but felt spicier somehow - like it was carbonated nitro fumes. I really thought capacitors or something else electrical was melting. Not sure how the ebrake cable was so noxious - maybe outer layers of metal were oxidizing and burning off lol.
My hail mary for the ECU was to just wait a day and do a true cold start and see if it'd fire up again and it won't. Really confused how it would fire up instantly the first time, and then with no changes it won't restart.
Cranking the Holley shows "Stall" which is better than flashing sync/err. The ECU has diagnostic lights on it and both the cam and crank sensor flash between green/blue as expected - never turns red.
The only red flag I can see is that the ECU is reporting much lower voltage than actual battery voltage - but it was doing this also when it fired up. I check the harness that is feeding keyed 12V into the ECU and it is solid battery voltage. I'm going to have to spend some more time with it to look for a shorted wire somewhere I guess. Otherwise I need to bite the bullet and buy a second ECU for testing? I know Holley will check the ECU if I mail it back but I'm having a tough time wanting to do that and wait for an answer.
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Yes, paint it. Your FD is a simplistic clean, keep it that way ;)
OTR intake render looks awesome! That is one of my last items I want to do to my FC....just don't want hood pins :(
Start up sounds healthy. Can't wait to see some in car footage at WOT.
Keep up the awesome work buddy! :cheers:
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Check out craftcloud3d.com to get the intake SLS Nylon printed. Shainiac is working on a design for me to run dual 82mm throttle bodies on the LS7 and will be printing in aluminum for under $500.
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Check out craftcloud3d.com to get the intake SLS Nylon printed. Shainiac is working on a design for me to run dual 82mm throttle bodies on the LS7 and will be printing in aluminum for under $500.
Sweet! $500 plus two cheap oem TB’s is going to be the same price as an aftermarket larger DBW unit lol. I just watched a video recently about printing a turbo manifold for cheap on craftcloud it’s definitely on my mind.
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Yes, paint it. Your FD is a simplistic clean, keep it that way ;)
OTR intake render looks awesome! That is one of my last items I want to do to my FC....just don't want hood pins :(
Start up sounds healthy. Can't wait to see some in car footage at WOT.
Keep up the awesome work buddy! :cheers:
Thanks dude! I get to keep my hood latch but I think I’ll be putting some hood pins anyways. It seems most people do with aftermarket hoods. Was going to try it first and see if it starts lifting.
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Great thing about the internet is when you document your stupidity it’s there forever lol. The quick and dirty jumper cable setup to an external battery wasn’t stable enough voltage to keep the Holley happy during cranking. Hooked it up properly today with some actual battery cables and it fired again first crank.
Weird thing is the battery was fully charged, and the starter spun it fast. I’ve read a lot that the Holley is super sensitive to voltage so I guess it’s true lol.
It was worth the effort to run it with a timing pointer though it was retarding 1 degree per every ~2000 rpm. By 4500 rpm it had retarded from 20.25 to 18 degrees. Had to trial and error an inductive delay. Now it is steady from idle up to 5000+ rpm.
I did find that I have a 2 amp draw somewhere keyed off. Haven’t been able to find it yet. That sucks.
The Holley is still only reporting 8 volts when the battery is solid 12.5+. I think I’m going to have to send it back to Holley for them to test it unfortunately. Making me want to think about switching off the Holley tbh but that’s an expensive leap to make.
It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.
https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp
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Sweet! $500 plus two cheap oem TB’s is going to be the same price as an aftermarket larger DBW unit lol. I just watched a video recently about printing a turbo manifold for cheap on craftcloud it’s definitely on my mind.
Two 3" filters is also easier to package than one 4" and flows more. I don't have a laid back radiator setup so trying to get creative.
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Sweet! $500 plus two cheap oem TB’s is going to be the same price as an aftermarket larger DBW unit lol. I just watched a video recently about printing a turbo manifold for cheap on craftcloud it’s definitely on my mind.
Two 3" filters is also easier to package than one 4" and flows more. I don't have a laid back radiator setup so trying to get creative.
Yea ain’t that the truth! Can you duct cold air from the bumper?
Are you planning to operate the TB’s progressive or symmetrical opening? Running off one TB at low TPS could give some nice tip in and low speed performance.
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Ya, I can get it down to the bus.per in front of the radiator. Thinking something like a naca duct.
Sequentially is the intent. The ECU will want to run them in parallel if I tell it there are two throttle bodies. If I set the second to an actuator I can custom table the pwm duty. 0% is roughly 10% open. 30% is about 100%. Easy enough to scale.
I don't think I'll need to pull it closed to 0%. The main can go to 0% to control idle. I need 11% now to idle with a 90mm. A 82mm should need more than 10 so I figure resti g on the actuator at 10 and 1-5% on the main for control. Worst case I can go negative pwm(swapped on the h-bridges) on the actuator.
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It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.
https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp
:o
Wow! That sounds amazing!
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It sounds good though! Got it to idle down at 800 and got some clean revs in. The cam sounds very mild. It also sounds a lot different from the old stroked ls2 on the revs I’m surprised the tone changed so much.
https://youtube.com/shorts/d8Yav2Xn4Pk?si=v-hAY1OH0omVFZEp
:o
Wow! That sounds amazing!
Thanks dude :) You'll get your clutch review someday lol!
Ya, I can get it down to the bus.per in front of the radiator. Thinking something like a naca duct.
Sequentially is the intent. The ECU will want to run them in parallel if I tell it there are two throttle bodies. If I set the second to an actuator I can custom table the pwm duty. 0% is roughly 10% open. 30% is about 100%. Easy enough to scale.
I don't think I'll need to pull it closed to 0%. The main can go to 0% to control idle. I need 11% now to idle with a 90mm. A 82mm should need more than 10 so I figure resti g on the actuator at 10 and 1-5% on the main for control. Worst case I can go negative pwm(swapped on the h-bridges) on the actuator.
Sounds like you've got an interesting challenge ahead! It'll be tricky to figure that switchover point of when to start opening the second TB and how quickly it needs to move. The change in area won't be linear when opening the blade. Maybe with DBW you can make the opening rate gradual enough that having them open in parallel will work fine.
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Just an estimate but I'd guess around 70% on the primary I'll start to open the secondary. With the blade on the secondary already cracked at 10% I don't think it'll be too bad to get smooth. My only concern using it as an actuator is the zero control loop. Will vacuum or high airflow want to change the blade position. If that's the case, I may have to run it as a throttle body. MaxxECU is pretty good about taking suggestions. They may add a different target table for each output.
However, Maxx does have the ability to make your own pid loop. Maybe that's an option.
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Rough day working on the car yesterday. I bought a Holley HP to replace my Terminator X fearing I fried the ECU with my short circuit issue. No matter what I tried the Terminator X would display ~8.5V on a fully charged 12.8V battery.
Got a base tune built and installed the HP. 12.5V displayed as expected. Now I have RPM sync/dropout issues. Hits a hard ignition cut at 4000 rpm and shoots ducks. Can't get ahead with this thing! Its the same sensors, harnesses all of it...really makes no sense.
I also spent at least an hour pulling fuses trying to find the 2A draw I have with the key off and still no luck. This one has me really scratching my head.
One nice thing, I was able to quiet down the howling IAC valve by using the air bypass adjustment on the Holley 105 throttle body - made a world of difference. Now just need to dampen the plenum somehow that doesn't look like ass. A ratchet strap around the plenum comes to mind lol, but it really needs like an internal pillar or something.
Last minor victory, I could swap the 6AN fitting out to a GM fitting in my Turn One pump and re-use my old power steering line. Cross one thing off the list. This is still the OEM GTO power steering line mated to the Mazda rack banjo.
(https://i.imgur.com/fOFLDW0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/U75uDvY.png)
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Electrical problems suck.
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I know this might be a long shot but I had an issue with my race logic, it reset itself and was in 4 cylinder mode causing it to do what you’re describing. Worth looking at some settings.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What’s been done on the cam and crank sensors? Original? Tested OK? OEM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What’s been done on the cam and crank sensors? Original? Tested OK? OEM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OEM as far as I know they came with the engine that was running when it came out of the car lol. It also reved fine with the Termi X, but had other issues lol. I ordered a cam sensor now too just in case.
I've been able to dig into the Holley HP system log. It took a while to get my bearings it is a ton of data. One perk of the better ECU is that it can do internal logging at 100hz with more diagnostic capability. It is like an oscilloscope.
I've found that every time the RPM drops out the cam sensor is seeing a false extra pulse. Should be 4 pulses - gets 1 2 3 4 5 then rpm error/sync. At least I'm not flying completely blind.
It's likely going to be a couple weeks before I can get back to it unfortunately, but I can use a break.
(https://i.imgur.com/27TXbuS.png)
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The signal is dropping out mid tooth. However, It seems odd the trigger patterns are not scaling with RPM. Maybe it's just how Holley displays it to make it easier.
Side note, having to get a "better" ecu to get 100Hz logging just makes me dislike Holley even more. You need to get over to a MaxxECU or Haltech asap. I bet your trigger issues disappear. haha MaxxECU does well over 1khz if you want. Even on the $700 version. Only the IO change between models.
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I’m guessing he has a ton of money in the Holley set up now, hard to start completely over.
I’m definitely using a MaxxECU for my next standalone project though, after comparing a lot of the features it seems to be the best of everything.
I don’t know if we want to judge performance based on YouTuber’s, but a lot of Youtubers struggle with Holley and Cam/crank sync issues.
I also noticed the Haltech struggles on the Evo platform and companies make a reluctor wheel to replace the factory two tooth with like a 12 tooth or something.
So I don’t think it’s just connected to the Holley.
It looks absolutely frustrating and maddening to me, good luck with it. A break is probably smart at this point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks guys. I did spend a long time staring at the MaxxECU setup lol. I feel there has to be something simple with this issue though. First one was my fault with the short. I only have a half day into working with the HP, I just didn't expect more and different problems lol. Not when the Termi X reved clean.
I'm not a huge fan of the Terminator X but it delivered what was promised. When I bought it the kit with harness and O2 sensor was sub $900. You can barely get a harness for that it feels like. It is a super cheap and cheerful package, but I couldn't afford better at the time. As finicky as the OEM ecu's were especially when flashing, you do get a lot of robustness with the electronics lol.
The cam sensor is only 0 or 1. The crank position is a 0 to 5000 point sawtooth over two crank revolutions. When it loses RPM signal you can see it starts back at zero after only one revolution. I believe it is effectively like the timing jumping 180 out until it finds itself again. It completely loses ignition like a hard rev limiter on all cylinders.
I agree the Holley stuff is starting to show its age. I think the dominator/HP systems have been out 10+ years now? I was able to snag a used ECU for $1000. If the harness and everything didn't work I'd have found another Termi X or jumped ship to another platform. I'm just happy it has the feature at all its the only way I can see it is a cam sensor issue and not crank sensor. I would've never guessed. I purposefully used an OEM cam gear because I've had cam sensor issues before with an aftermarket sprocket.
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The cam and crank should both be 0-5v square. They are hall sensors and absolutely should not be saw tooth.
First two images are the raw crank and cam respectively. Third is the trigger voltage levels.
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Sorry the sawtooth is not the crank position sensor output - the sensor output is a square wave, and I didn't see any abnormalities with it. The Holley tracks crank position as a saw tooth - must be an arbitrary value calculated 0-5000 for the two revolutions. The start and end of the sawtooth aligns with two revolutions of the crank sensor pulses. Not sure why they don't use 0 to 720* but that's neither here nor there.
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Holley really likes to be weird. Injector timing is off bdc on the compression for them. Makes no sense haha
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Yea I had to draw it out for injector timing, but it works ok once you understand the reference point. By default it is at 540*, or 0* for them. The intake valve closes ~60* after. It isn't the worst, but idle sucks. The biggest head scratcher is if you enable their injector timing table it is MAP vs RPM. What MAP has to do with injector timing I have no idea lol. You can make a custom 3d table that inj PW vs rpm vs injector end angle offset and then you actually have something useful.
What strategy did you use for your engine? We have very similar valve events.
At idle/low RPM I'm targeting to advance the fuel spray as much as possible, starting just at or slightly before the exhaust valve closes as the fuel takes some time to reach the chamber.
As load increases, retarding the spray timing to get the bulk of the fuel sprayed into an open intake valve and during high piston velocity. Obviously at longer duty cycles and higher rpm injector timing matters much less as the injectors will just be on for most of the time.
I'm not sure what my duty cycle is going to be yet. I'm guessing ~60% on 91 octane and ~80% on E85.
I've done this strategy before with a slightly smaller cam on the GM ecu and actually found spraying on a closed intake valve like GM's approach to be easier to tune at low speed and take less fuel. When I actually get to tuning this thing I plan to swing injector timing forward and back in some pretty big swings and see what it likes at low load.
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Ironically, I used a spreadsheet meant for Holleys and added a few tables to convert it to what everyone else uses.
Under load I have the injector closed 10° before the exhaust closes. At idle, the more time on the back of the valve the better. The upper and lower slope were adjusted to get the events where I wanted for idle, cruise and WOT. Used the table generator to fell the rest of the table.
Ex: I idle around 2.5ms pulse width. Intake valve opens at 356.5* after TDC on the power stroke(MaxxECU reference). Injector closes roughly 10-15* before the intake valve opens. So 356.5-15*=341.5*. After testing while running I ended up around 30* before so about 320*
I have zero issues with idle and cam surge now. Alex(shainiac) had issues with his and I redid his table based off his cam card. He's not back on the road yet but I'd expect it'll help a ton.
After the spreadsheet work, warm the car up. Disable closed loop fueling and play with the timing in the pulse width areas you are idling at. Adjust 10* at a time to find the richest reading you can. Redo the VE. Repeat one more time.
This is all from memory 3-4months ago. Your mileage may vary. ha
If you look at the cam overlap diagram. MaxxECU starts on the far left at 0. Holley is 540* later or 180* after 0* on the lobe diagram.
Edit: To follow up. I was playing around with the injection timing some more. Ended up around 250* from 330* before. I could not get the engine to idle below 950 before. At 250* it sits at 800 no problem and took 3% out of the VE table.
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I struggled with ckp sync with my MS3Pro, trying to use it with my 24x reluctor.
I eventually figured out that the weird 2-piece reluctor in my engine has warped and separated.
I added a 36-1 wheel up front, made a bracket and switched to a 58X sensor. It works well now.
Not sure this helps with your issue, but it was an oddball problem. :banghead:
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That's always possible but should show up in the trigger logger if runout is there.
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That's always possible but should show up in the trigger logger if runout is there.
It was only possible with the oddball split wheel that GM used.
It wasn't a repeating error, but looked like random noise. I tried every noise reduction method I could think of, until I finally put a borescope in the sensor hole and found the wheel was separated.
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The dual plate 24x always was an oddball.
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These are the most boring updates ever lol. I’ve confirmed it’s a cam sensor issue, and it’s not the cam sensor. Replaced the sensor and it wouldn’t even start. Disabled the cam sensor and ran it batch fire strategy and it fires immediately and sounds amazing. I can rev it slowly up to 5000 and free revs up to 6k sure sound nice.
Must be a problem in the harness? I had cam sensor issues with my ls2 and had to run it batch fire for the short time I ran it with the terminator. The only thing common at this point is the harness. I always blamed my past issues on the aftermarket dual roller timing set. With the stock ECU I’d have to crank it twice every time or it would backfire for some reason.
https://youtube.com/shorts/9RjdiqcEZkg?si=1Oxv0W2-Uu-M8NFM
I also ordered up a bunch of parts to install an anti gravity battery - got to test it out today and I’m extremely impressed. I’ve never had it spin so fast when cranking. Gotta get it mounted in the rear bins and run a battery cable. I need to drop the exhaust and driveshaft again sadly but it is what it is. Just making more work for myself.
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These are the most boring updates ever lol. I’ve confirmed it’s a cam sensor issue, and it’s not the cam sensor. Replaced the sensor and it wouldn’t even start. Disabled the cam sensor and ran it batch fire strategy and it fires immediately and sounds amazing. I can rev it slowly up to 5000 and free revs up to 6k sure sound nice.
Must be a problem in the harness? I had cam sensor issues with my ls2 and had to run it batch fire for the short time I ran it with the terminator. The only thing common at this point is the harness. I always blamed my past issues on the aftermarket dual roller timing set. With the stock ECU I’d have to crank it twice every time or it would backfire for some reason.
https://youtube.com/shorts/9RjdiqcEZkg?si=1Oxv0W2-Uu-M8NFM
I also ordered up a bunch of parts to install an anti gravity battery - got to test it out today and I’m extremely impressed. I’ve never had it spin so fast when cranking. Gotta get it mounted in the rear bins and run a battery cable. I need to drop the exhaust and driveshaft again sadly but it is what it is. Just making more work for myself.
Well finding the problem is a nice accomplishment!
My battery cable runs through the interior pass side. You are going to run yours external?
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Ya I was thinking the underside of the trans tunnel I’ve seen a nice example of doing it that way. Where do you take yours outside?
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Ya I was thinking the underside of the trans tunnel I’ve seen a nice example of doing it that way. Where do you take yours outside?
It shoots out under the ABS module. I'll see if I can find a picture of it. @halfspec obviously ran it but I like it up out of the way from heat and moisture, until it gets to the ABS area. From my car stereo days long ago running 0AWG wire we never did it external unless it was protected inside of a frame rail on a truck (rectangle tube).
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I run the ATX 30 HD anti gravity battery and love it. It's a beast
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I run the ATX 30 HD anti gravity battery and love it. It's a beast
Same one I got! While the cam sensor was preventing it from firing I had some time just cranking and the car damn near leapt off the stands lol. Tools shook off the fenders. It was 13.2V fully charged, 12.0V while cranking and while running with no alternator and an electric water pump going it was still 12.8V.
I had been using a fresh large capacity optima red top and the lithium battery feels way more powerful.
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Run the battery cable through the interior. It’s easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just wanted to pop in and say.. I saw your motor build thread on LS1tech by chance and it looked like amazing work
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Just wanted to pop in and say.. I saw your motor build thread on LS1tech by chance and it looked like amazing work
Thank you very much! My old man has been building engines over 50 years and it definitely shows. He really helped the dream come together on this one.
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Well it was a good break!
Got the duct from my buddy to check dimensional fitment. Will move onto a rev 2 for final design including attachment points and IAT etc once we know we're on the right track. It's looking pretty sweet though. End goal would still be to make it out of composite once we have a working prototype. Yes, he did put a banana for scale lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/I3wDJRp.jpeg)
Camped out at the grand canyon with my wife and her family over last weekend and did some hiking and bouldering.
(https://i.imgur.com/e4C6rEJ.jpeg)
And then raced with my dad over the holiday and cracked 'em one of the days and took home a big check! My old man also made it down to 6 cars in our wagon on a different race day we almost got it done twice.
(https://i.imgur.com/oHG9XQr.jpeg)
Ironically a friend of ours had Holley issues at the track with their Dominator and I was very well equipped to help them....lol.
Plan of attack for mine next is to peel back the harness and find where the 5V is splitting out to the sensors I'm wondering if there is a bad/loose splice somewhere along the way going to the cam sensor. Going back through memory of my past experiences I've never had a working cam sensor with this harness, and now it is with 2 different engines, multiple cam sensors, 2 different ECU's etc...the harness is the common thread.
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Off to a really great start with this thing! Not bad for a tape measure and a straight edge haha
(https://i.imgur.com/eb8nWIf.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fuelu3j.jpeg)
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That's awesome.
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Looks real nice, but im ready to see it drive now :drive:
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Looks real nice, but im ready to see it drive now :drive:
Hold on, I get my clutch review first LOL @MPbdy :drive:
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Lmao yea yea. I should be able to get back to it on Saturday. As soon as the car is ready to drive I have a silicone coupler and aluminum tube I can slap on there. I need to find this damn cam sensor issue, and really need to find the 2A parasitic draw too. I've checked every fuse in the car and didn't find it so it must be something I hacked together, or a short somewhere.
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I'm really growing to hate this. If my cam and crank sensor data is going haywire at ~5000 rpm, but will clean up at 6000 rpm, what should I be looking at? Is this noise? Would it be on the +5V, the ground or signal wires?
I did go back and plug in my terminator and it did also cut out at ~4800 rpm so I know it is not the ECU.
58x/4x at 5000rpm
(https://i.imgur.com/b9F3LDD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HSjrOLo.png)
Batchfire - no cam sensor at 5000 rpm
(https://i.imgur.com/rr662u3.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/L4F0z9A.png)
Batchfire at 6000rpm - cleans up?
(https://i.imgur.com/Nh4UnCK.png)
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Only thing I can think of is some kind of harmonic. Have no clue what to do about it though.
Try running it in batch and run it up testing the 5vref to block gnd and sign gnd at the cam connector. See if there are any interruptions. You'll need something like an oscope though.
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So after some pondering I have a couple paths forward.
First I'm going to run the cam and crank grounds to the block/battery and see if anything changes. If it isn't noise being picked up on the ground wire then I've ordered up everything I need to make a shielded 3 wire harness going to the cam and crank sensor on it's own power and ground.
I can't imagine any possible scenario where that DOESN'T fix the problem.
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I think it would be fixed doing that. Is the current setup shielded?
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Yea Holley has the wires shielded in their harness. Ironically the factory cam and crank sensor wires are not shielded lol.
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How does the new engine feel?
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I did get up there this past weekend, and it took another full day, but made some progress. Mixed feelings on it because it isn't a fix, but rather a workaround. Still no idea what the root cause is, but I can move on from here.
I did not wind up needing to run a new shielded wire. I started out the day with grounding the cam sensor to the block. I thought this fixed it straight away, but turns out the gremlin was still there just dramatically reduced in severity. I was immediately able to rev past ~4500 and all the way up to 7400. Funny how fast it gets to the rev limiter when you're used to it cutting ignition at 4500 rpm haha. I did bring it back down and held it steady at different RPM's from 4000 to 4500 and eventually it did start having small misfires. Not the huge RPM dropouts as before - it would stumble and recover faster, and as mentioned it would let me rev past it cleanly on a faster sweep.
Looked at the datalogs and went down a rabbit hole of working on the crank sensor thinking it might be contributing as well. I should've just stuck it out with the cam sensor only. I wound up grounding the crank sensor with no change, fed 12V to the crank sensor with no change, and then fed 12V to the cam sensor and it worked 100%! Dropped the starter for a third time and put the crank sensor back to normal wiring and it again worked fine - reved clean 100%, and I swept RPMs between 4000 and 5000 very slowly for at least 30 seconds and didn't once have a dropout.
The only little annoyance is the engine takes longer to crank now. My theory is that since the cam sensor is hooked to 12V directly when you key the starter the voltage drops and spikes and might be causing some irregularities until the voltage settles out. The switching point on these sensors is only 3.5V so it is 100% getting ENOUGH voltage to switch, but it is just really dirty on that 12V bus when you crank.
To finalize things I need to clean up the wiring and make this a bit more permanent. I don't see any other issues on my other sensors that would give me concern that the harness has other flaws. I don't know the source of the noise in the harness, but I should be good to go. I do have an unused regulated 12V pin from the ECU I can tap into and try that to see if cranking improves. This will likely be how I wrap up this saga and whatever it is, it is.
I do still need to find what the parasitic draw is I have yet to be able to find what is pulling 2 amps with the key off.
So to answer your question the engine feels smooth finally at every RPM, and still sounds awesome lol - especially at 7400 rpm.
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Nice work tracing it down!! that's some good progress, I'm sure you're itching to drive it. I am and it's not even my car haha.
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Yea I'm definitely itching to drive it. I have gotten a bit jaded/burnt out after all this troubleshooting and wiring crap that needs to be done. I need to start making some big progress lol. I am looking forward to putting some work in over the 4th of July weekend, at least one full day.
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Yooooo so it has been a little bit. After finally tracking down the cam sensor issue (or at least a bandaid fix) I had some major burnout and needed a break. It has also been HOT.
Have had some time recently to get back to work, and my dad spent some of his retirement time on his own too putting the front dress together, finishing the power steering lines, put the AC lines and compressor back in and probably a few more odds and ends.
The new Turn One power steering pump is on and fits great. Lines worked out perfectly. It really couldn't have gone any better for install.
I also got a Motion Raceworks 3" pulley for the alternator. It was getting wayyyyy over spun, and I plan to rev this thing out to 7500+, especially if the solid roller engine ever makes it in here.
We got the battery install done and cables routed - super stoked with how it turned out. Was able to route it under the car very well protected from heat and any chance of hitting something. I cut the rear bin out like 10 years ago, but wound up mounting a smaller lithium battery in a custom battery box on the frame rail. Its a little ugly under there cosmetically, but the install is super clean. This battery tray is a really nice piece, and it is designed to fit in the plastic bin without cutting it out. I made it work mounting to the floor, but definitely would have been easier, looked nicer and required less use of a sledge hammer had I never cut the bin out lol.
3 trashed batteries later over the years I feel like this is finally a permanent solution, and spins the engine over like its nothing. This anti-grav battery is just so badass I can't recommend it enough.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EHQtnmc5SbM
(https://i.imgur.com/Igaj3td.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LciuqOR.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rEtSMjm.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0S8kqTD.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EDdnE5U.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U4Y1sTe.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2sCtnhg.jpeg)
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I don't know how or why this happened, but this entire car just got rebuilt. It was just supposed to be a quick engine swap and wrap up some loose ends. I'll have to talk to my idiot project manager.
It is getting really close though. I could bleed the clutch and go drive it right now so that's pretty cool.
I have a lot of wiring to do, and figure out how and where to mount the ECU to tuck the harness. It is nearing the final odds and ends and clean-up to make everything nice and presentable. I also have some interior work ahead of me that I'm dreading. I had to take the console out a couple times and even more tabs broke. I also have a new map pocket to install, but not sure the condition of the rest of the door panel. I'm not entirely sure what to do for the car's future I think I really need to start planning for either a custom interior, or spend racks on replacement parts that are equally fragile and likely already broken.
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I feel you on the whole car getting rebuilt. Mine started as me just wanting to replace the subframe and spiralled into a full everything. My LS1 needed a new engine harness and because of that I got a completely different engine and a Holley setup haha.
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I just put a 3" on my alternator too! Still have rock solid voltage at idle even with the 10% UD crank.
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I had the same problem with my alternator, I'm only spinning to 6400 but it's a track car so it gets there just about every shift, and I was going through an alternator every season.
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I had the same problem with my alternator, I'm only spinning to 6400 but it's a track car so it gets there just about every shift, and I was going through an alternator every season.
After we blew a few up on our LS3 powered drag car that spins >7500 rpm it was time to take a closer look at it lol. The LS2 alternator I have appears to not care mechanically about getting spun >> 20,000 rpm - but from what I hear it stops charging at too high of speeds. Last thing I want is voltage instability at high rpm. The factory pulley diameter puts it way over speed even by like ~5000 rpm.
Even with the 3" it spins a bit faster than it should, but I didn't want to risk dropping the speed too low at idle.
The alternators we use on the drag car the armature was spreading open and contacting the case lol. Oops.
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Problems I never, ever considered ^^^. Haha
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At 7200 the alternator is doing 16.2k and at 800 it's 1800. Voltage has been stable but if I up the idle to 900 it goes to 2050 with is a little better.
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Yea that’s cool. I guess it’d only be a problem at idle on like a stock vette idling at 600 in drive lol.
Motion has this handy chart I found after I did all my own math lol.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0043/6807/2822/files/Motion_Alternator_Sheet_1024x1024.png?v=1636149047)
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Has anyone looked at the PWM regulated alternators that are on the later gen4 cars and trucks? I don't really understand why the alternator fails when spun too fast, but was curious if you had manual control of the regulator if you could prevent it.
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Has anyone looked at the PWM regulated alternators that are on the later gen4 cars and trucks? I don't really understand why the alternator fails when spun too fast, but was curious if you had manual control of the regulator if you could prevent it.
I have one on my car. I’m going to wire up an output from the Holley to control it, but not worry about moving the voltage around I’ll just command it to charge a fixed voltage. In constant voltage mode the current output will vary based on demand. From the factory they tried to eek out extra efficiency I don’t care about that obviously lol. With no PWM input it’ll default to charging at 13.6V I believe.
Most alternators are mechanically unable to survive being spun over 20,000 rpm.
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Just getting back home from playing hooky today and wrenching a bit. We’ve got family in town so it wasn’t the most focused day but made some progress.
I am relieved but also ultimately frustrated to learn that my 2 amp parasitic draw was a byproduct of a faulty multimeter, not my electrical system.
With everything connected my parasitic draw is only 10 milliamp when checked with a properly functioning meter…
Also got the clutch bled and flushed new fluid through the brakes.
I’m thinking I’m just now down to mounting my catch can somewhere and making an AN line for it, making a wiring harness for my custom I/O’s, and mounting the ECU and I/O module with the harness nicely tucked out of the way.
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There's a technical term for meters like that: "Firearm practice target"
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Has anyone looked at the PWM regulated alternators that are on the later gen4 cars and trucks? I don't really understand why the alternator fails when spun too fast, but was curious if you had manual control of the regulator if you could prevent it.
I use a 2 wire 250A unit from JS Alternators. Very happy with the unit. My ECU(Maxx) is controlling it. I was having the issue where initial charge was enough load to bog or kill the engine. Maxx didn't have a way to ramp in the pwm duty natively so I emailed them. It has it now. I have the duty ramping in over a 60sec. I also have the second wire on the alternator wired to a digital in. It's a 0-100% load monitor. Works quite nicely. Just made a math channel where 100%=250A.
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Ohhh helllooooo
https://youtube.com/shorts/E5d77peb-v8?si=ek4OB5EbcNtsg2HN
(https://i.imgur.com/r2cCYcA.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vfnSRZ5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mzhl0S0.jpeg)
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I just want you to know, I'm your one dislike on the video. Why? Just because. Ha
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I just want you to know, I'm your one dislike on the video. Why? Just because. Ha
I love this hahaha
😂😂 thank you, f you
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Short day working on it yesterday but a fun one for sure.
Mocked up the catch can where the ABS was, I am excited to get that built.
I need to build an I/O harness for the Holley and tidy up the rest of the install and I think it’ll be about ready for tuning and break-in miles!
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I just want you to know, I'm your one dislike on the video. Why? Just because. Ha
I love this hahaha
😂😂 thank you, f you
Hahahahaha
I noticed the tach seemed a little limp. Also, what rear gear? I had forgotten how tall a 2.66 first in the trans was.
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I just swapped to 3.73's because I couldn't get a 3.90 aftermarket gear installed that was quiet. Went through a few sets. 3.73 ford racing gears should be silent (I hope). I'm not thrilled about losing the gear multiplication, but my new trans has the shorter overdrive ratios which helped the mental gymnastics of being OK with the move to 3.73's.
There's no wire connected to the tach at the moment haha. I have a steering column mount for the Holley digital dash that will block out all the gauges except for the fuel gauge. I'm thinking I'll leave the tach disconnected. The speedo is GPS, but I have a speed output from the trans for the Holley. I guess I'll keep the speedo active so my odometer will continue to tick up. The insurance company likes to see that sometimes.
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I like it :cheers:
(https://i.imgur.com/Yu48bCj.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MEU1yvN.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sQi1ZNP.jpeg)
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Sounded real good in the video!
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Sounded real good in the video!
Thanks dude! Also, congrats on your 1/2 mile results!! 195 is flying. I was watching your stories over the weekend.
I'm getting more optimistic on this engine the more I run it. It seems very smooth, quiet and happy. Not bad for a $5500 takeout with rebuilt heads. Hard to even get an LS3 for that price. I'm very happy so far with the cam I spec'ed when it comes to idle and sound level. I haven't done any real tuning yet either its still just a base tune I slapped together. We'll see when I lay into it if I wish I went bigger on the cam.
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Looks real nice, but im ready to see it drive now :drive:
Hold on, I get my clutch review first LOL @MPbdy :drive:
@kinger the clutch worked lol! It had a small shudder on first takeoff. Take-up is smooth and natural feeling. Pedal pressure is about what I remember with the RPS and my Monster twin which is not too stiff, but still stiff enough to cause a foot cramp when driving in rainbows lol. This is with the clutch spring removed. I expected it to be a little lighter, but it is within expectations. I put it in 4th at about 30mph driving up the hill and it lugged the engine a bit and the tune surged - but you can hear a little vibration. I'm assuming I hit the same trigger point as the other clutch. I'll let you judge on severity but to me it sounds like a lot less. Until I get the car actually driving and loaded up in 4th going up a hill I will reserve ultimate judgemnet.
There's your 30 second driving review haha! Smash that like and subscribe to get notified when the full review drops :P
https://imgur.com/SC42LWY
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Looks real nice, but im ready to see it drive now :drive:
Hold on, I get my clutch review first LOL @MPbdy :drive:
@kinger the clutch worked lol! It had a small shudder on first takeoff. Take-up is smooth and natural feeling. Pedal pressure is about what I remember with the RPS and my Monster twin which is not too stiff, but still stiff enough to cause a foot cramp when driving in rainbows lol. This is with the clutch spring removed. I expected it to be a little lighter, but it is within expectations. I put it in 4th at about 30mph driving up the hill and it lugged the engine a bit and the tune surged - but you can hear a little vibration. I'm assuming I hit the same trigger point as the other clutch. I'll let you judge on severity but to me it sounds like a lot less. Until I get the car actually driving and loaded up in 4th going up a hill I will reserve ultimate judgemnet.
There's your 30 second driving review haha! Smash that like and subscribe to get notified when the full review drops :P
https://imgur.com/SC42LWY
Starting out positive! No sound on the vid, check the mute button on vid and computer about 20 times couldn't get it to work. Sounds like it may already be worth it!
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Wow this was 9 years ago :o Just popped up on facebook memories lol. These were the nights that I was out taking trips to Mexico with my wife before we were even dating
(https://i.imgur.com/2IiPYZg.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/22K97FF.jpeg)
A little lackluster and boring on the updates. Right after I got this thing fired up I came down with covid and was stuck inside for 10 days waiting to get over it, and then I had some work travel last week. I did get up one day to work on it, but had to spend time fixing an issue FINALLY that has plagued this thing for so so long. My dad noticed the trans was pushing fluid out again out the tail (this is now across two transmissions and 3 different tail sections). Turns out the plug in the trans yoke was not sealed and was letting fluid out when it would get some pressure behind it. It definitely won't be leaking now, and the car is back on the ground as it was before ready to dive into the wiring, but ate a full day of to drop the exhaust and driveshaft and get it put back together.
I will be heading up there today to try and come up with a plan to mount the ECU and start the I/O wiring harness I need to build from scratch.
(https://i.imgur.com/tvfTPf1.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uiHvwY5.jpeg)
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Hah, that'll stop it!
I also got COVID, also went down for over a week, and then also had work travel. Do not recommend.
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Hah, that'll stop it!
I also got COVID, also went down for over a week, and then also had work travel. Do not recommend.
Yea it really sucked lol I felt like I was on 60% energy even after testing negative, and stuck entertaining for 4 hours every night while people got hammered lol. I stopped drinking this year and it has made nights at the bar with work colleagues a lot less entertaining if I'm not feeling it lmao.
I got my ECU mounted today! Super happy with it. I still need to find a place to mount the I/O module, and I still have to do my I/O harness for sensors, relay control etc.
Put a nutsert in the sheet metal to attach a bracket, and my old man came up with a neat idea to make a standoff out of an old valve cover hold down - threaded M6 on one side and 10-32 on the other. Threads onto an M6 stud that probably held down the factory ECU or something.
(https://i.imgur.com/tRhIZzq.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gEeIK0z.jpeg)
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That's a slick mounting solution. Pretty OEM overall.
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September gets crazy busy for us. Managed to get a solid 5-6 hours in yesterday on wiring and cleaning things up. Most of it spent shoved up under the dash.
Its at that stage where it feels like a lot of work goes in, but no apparent progress is seen lol.
A few things - The Holley harness has a beefy 10 gauge power and ground that feeds the ECU which connects direct to the battery. I was able to get this out of the engine bay, run it under my carpet and into the bins where my new battery is completely out of sight.
I also cut the main harness and my transmission harness loose and pulled it back into the car, fixed some tangled bits, and routed it back behind the brake line like I was supposed to do when I put the engine in lol.
Also was able to get some loom around some of the wires that branch out of that area to clean it up a bit. This really cleaned up the wiring in the engine bay.
Lastly, spliced my Halfspec AC controller back into the car. I was going to integrate it into fully into the Holley, but with the limited I/O, and already having the AC controller on-hand it was easy enough to patch it back in, and this saves me multiple I/O. I can run the AC now with no I/O, or with a single input probably get all the functionality I could hope for.
I believe I have also figured out a clean way to tuck all the excess harness inside the car. So far it appears like the majority of it will fit in a cubby hole behind the ECU in the passenger kick panel, and there should be room for the rest of it behind the plastic if there's any excess that won't tuck away nicely.
Last piece is going to be finding a home for the I/O expansion module, and making a new harness to run to my sensors and relays. The expansion module is about 3"x4" x2" high. I'm hoping I can just stash it behind my dash as I'll already have my CAN extension harness running that way for the digital dash. What's nice is power and ground is fed via CAN.
In the I/O harness needs to be:
Speed sensor input (input)
Cooling fan relay (output)
AC activation (input)
Clutch switch/2 step logic (input)
Flex fuel (PWM) (input)
Alternator voltage control (PWM) (output)
2nd fuel pump relay control (output)
Oil temperature (input)
Tach signal (output) - Holley puts out 4 pulse per rev only from the ECU..
Future plans if I have extra I/O:
Activation wire for a keyed 12V source front and rear of the car (could be shorted together) (output)
Coolant pressure sensor (would've caught my coolant leak much earlier) (input)
PWM wire for a potential different Electric water pump (output)
??? not sure what else but if I have anything leftover I'll just send spare wires to the front and back and tuck them away somewhere.
(https://i.imgur.com/U1Q6DHx.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BzJpHEZ.jpeg)
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Wiring, the more work/effort you put in, the less it's noticed. ;)
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That’s a great way to think about it!
The kickpanel is a fema disaster zone. It’s tough since it’s all hacked and spliced into the stock wiring, and I’m tucking about 2 feet of extra Holley wiring lol. Would be nice to start from scratch someday, but once the panel goes on it has never been a concern.
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I totally agree on finding the time/making the effort.
I built the Aston harness "quick and dirty" (or my version of it, anyway). I'll get back to it and do a mil-spec setup eventually, but I'm more worried about it working properly first.
Cars are more fun when they drive, turns out. :D
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Got another full day in on the FD on Friday! Street car status. Also ran the car for a very long time to get the AC charged. Probably 30 minutes total of idling? Got up to 200* with the AC on full with it 90* outside and the car sucking in its own hot air. It was nice to stress it a little and have no issues. The new trans felt especially nice once the fluid was hot.
(https://i.imgur.com/PDIOBea.jpeg)
One minor step backward, found that my replacement passenger steering rack boot gets pulled off the rack when turning the wheel. Super cool lol. Had a huge puddle of fluid and grease on the rack after I parked it from my drive around the block. I ordered an OEM replacement for $65 for one boot lol. I guess for the better, otherwise I probably would've taken it for another joyride lol. I could drive it anywhere like a normal car now which is a fun milestone.
My old Halfspec AC controller is working perfectly picking up RPM signal from the Holley, and disengaging the compressor at 4800 rpm. Only thing I didn't get quite right is the cooling fans aren't coming on with the AC for some reason I must have spliced it back in wrong. Ideally I'm going to run the AC signal into an ECU input so I can have an IAC kick and control the fans from the Holley.
My thought that I could have a breather tank hooked to the valve cover only and it would minimize the smell was a failed experiment. When it got hot it was breathing a lot out of the tank. I believe just boiling off moisture, but the smell wasn't nice at all.
I really don't want to run a full PCV setup, but I'm considering running the exist port of the catch can into the fresh air side of the throttle body. It wouldn't offer any suction, but also wouldn't be a vacuum leak. The mightymouse catchcan has a flap in the vent that only opens under pressure, so I'm hoping it would stay closed and the vapors would make their way to the intake instead of out the breather. Open to any input on that idea lol.
On a similar note I'm really starting to question if I should have cats on the car....I'll wait to finish a tune before deciding that but man its just smelly all over at the moment.
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This engine still amazes me at how smooth it is when reving. The car has never ever felt this smooth it makes me really excited to actually drive it. I guess I need to credit either the shortblock, or the clutch, but I'm leaning toward the clutch.
Its not just the vibration though, the engine note sounds smoother too and revs up and down very clean.
Really really stoked to be this close, and starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Like it might actually be a nice car again at some point.
Sorry more just boring idles and revs lol. It should be doing something cool here real soon (soon in my speed, so see you in December).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WUSXp7o1ak
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Jealous of AC. I need to get my AC finished, it's just always "next on the list".
Congrats!
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Wow. How did you get your A/C down to 32 degrees? :scratch:
What refrigerant are you running?
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Wow. How did you get your A/C down to 32 degrees? :scratch:
What refrigerant are you running?
Just R134a. Seemed way too cold to me too - I think the temp gun was freaking out lol it would read lower and lower the longer I held the trigger - down into the 20's which is physically impossible lol. I grabbed the most realistic temp I could for a picture. Made for some chilly finger tips though I'm not going to argue haha.
I was pretty dumb thinking I'd ever drive this thing with no AC on the street lol. It's the best with the windows down and the roof popped, but realistically the AC is a necessity. With the solid roller engine I was going to put an external oilpump/vacuum pump where the AC compressor is. Now even the solid roller engine has a normal style oil pump on the crank snout - no reason to pretend haha.
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Jealous of AC. I need to get my AC finished, it's just always "next on the list".
Congrats!
You ever consider an electric AC compressor? Seems up your alley haha
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Forgot to mention the new electrical system is one of my favorite upgrades for this car so far. Having the battery shutoff in the rear bin, and a much larger battery is soooooo nice. Luxury upgrade, but well worth it.
After idling for 30 min and getting heat soaked the starter spun the engine no problem.
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Forgot to mention the new electrical system is one of my favorite upgrades for this car so far. Having the battery shutoff in the rear bin, and a much larger battery is soooooo nice. Luxury upgrade, but well worth it.
After idling for 30 min and getting heat soaked the starter spun the engine no problem.
Its the little OEM+ things like that on a mod car, that make me really enjoy the car. Weird but I love that stuff!
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Forgot to mention the new electrical system is one of my favorite upgrades for this car so far. Having the battery shutoff in the rear bin, and a much larger battery is soooooo nice. Luxury upgrade, but well worth it.
After idling for 30 min and getting heat soaked the starter spun the engine no problem.
Its the little OEM+ things like that on a mod car, that make me really enjoy the car. Weird but I love that stuff!
I think it comes down to owning and driving one for years you really start to learn what is important, and how exciting it is to have a reliable non POS car lol.
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So, damnit. My rack is blown. I pulled the boot off to replace it, and tons of oil poured out. Absolutely sucks. I ordered a seal kit, and hopefully this won't be too bad of a job. FD steering racks are one of the rarest parts to try and find these days. I really don't want to have to replace it.
Worked on mounting the I/O expander. I was feeling really good about this, but then it was 1/4" too tall lol. I tried really hard to hide it somewhere, but I like how it turned out in the end. My old man fabbed up a quick bracket to mount it on the firewall. It'll be by far the easiest to wire up in this spot.
(https://i.imgur.com/cljK3ev.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JFBmKs6.jpeg)
I drew this IAT mount up and my buddy printed it for me a little while back. I'm super close to pulling the trigger on a 3d printer. I'm waiting to see if Bambu Labs comes out wiht a larger format printer and then I'll try to learn how to design some interior I think haha.
(https://i.imgur.com/NIvJlrc.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4AqFha9.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2gmjx5B.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AHCIBiW.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/w3OkfFw.jpeg)
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I paid $100 for two 10 ORB fittings and some 3/8” fuel hose today 😩
It really has gotten crazy expensive to be doing this. If it was like this 10 years ago I never could’ve built this car.
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That is crazy! All my lines are non ptfe so I get a little fuel smell. Drives me nuts. I looked at making new PTFE lined hoses…holy crap i like the smell of fuel now lol.
I have been eyeing up a printer too. They keep getting better and more functional. Sick little IAT design!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So... why is it angled?
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So... why is it angled?
So it doesn’t stick out as far into the engine bay and the cable routes better lol
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That is crazy! All my lines are non ptfe so I get a little fuel smell. Drives me nuts. I looked at making new PTFE lined hoses…holy crap i like the smell of fuel now lol.
I have been eyeing up a printer too. They keep getting better and more functional. Sick little IAT design!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Bambulabs stuff is crazy good, and works great out of the box. I’d want one a little bigger. Budget wise I’m happy to pay more if they came out with one 50-100% larger, but I’m not going to buy two printers lol.
There’s quite a few brackets and misc things I’d have printed the last couple months.
Long term goals, I’ve messed around learning to draw up some headers, some intake manifold designs, and I’d really want to learn some custom interior design.
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Got to wrap up a couple fun jobs before tearing apart the steering.
Very happy with how the IAT sensor turned out!
(https://i.imgur.com/SL7B2L4.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3GOR6Ws.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3od46JQ.jpeg)
Redid the catch can routing - gave it an exit port that vents into the PCV fresh air port on the throttle body. Backwards logic, but going to give this a shot before plumbing PCV as stock. This will let vapors enter the intake tract in front of the throttle body. There's a flap that shuts off the exit of the filter so long as the can isn't pressurized, so it should hopefully flow enough to keep the fumes sealed.
I didn't grab a good picture, but I routed a 3/8 rubber hose on a quick disconnect fitting so it'll be easier to empty the can. I did get a good picture of the strut tower bar fitting!!!! I am surprised, and very happy. At the least I was going to run the brackets on top of the shock towers, but I'm thrilled it fits. There's actually a decent gap vs the LS3 intake. I put some adhesive high density foam under the bar to hopefully dampen the plenum and get rid of the god awful noise that this intake makes. If this works, I need to find a more attractive way to do this, but the strut brace is in a perfect point to come up with a solution.
(https://i.imgur.com/nIO0Osb.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/heBGFL8.jpeg)
And lastly, dropped this POS out of the car. Will try and rebuild it next time.
(https://i.imgur.com/llTQa9r.jpeg)
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Time to make that rack into a manual one and get the e power steering on the steering column. It works well and is adjustable so you can go from full Cadillac cruising to almost off if you want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Time to make that rack into a manual one and get the e power steering on the steering column. It works well and is adjustable so you can go from full Cadillac cruising to almost off if you want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Man, I thought a lot about that even before the rack took a shit, but I read a couple folks are not thrilled with the steering feel.
Do you have one now?
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Here's my unsolicited first-hand opinion on the EPAS. I have the epowersteering.com kit in my FC and like it. It's a decent drop-in solution. They use Saturn Vue/Chevy Traverse (IIRC) EPAS and graft it to the Mazda OEM column.
I believe it's very similar to the Toyota EPAS, since it also has a Koyo ECU. Wiring it up is easy and they include a trim pot to adjust the level of assist.
My car now has a welded torsion spring in the rack and removed the pistons, so it's not an apples to apples comparison. The old setup was OEM S4 rack, Sweet NASCAR GM Type2 pump, and Turn1 restrictor.
The EPAS is definitely a little more numb feeling, but also a little sharper without the springy-ness of the stock PS rack.
My car is purely a street car, so I can't comment if it's fast enough for stuff like drifting or AutoX.
There is definitely a slight delay in quick changes of direction, but not something I've really noticed unless I saw at the wheel at a standstill. I
t also self-centers better than my old rack and hydro PS. It packages pretty well, also.
I have a size 14 4E shoe and don't really notice the columns there.
The range of assist on my car isn't huge, but the level I like is somewhere in that range. Exidous also has the same kit, and he said he prefers it at the minimum.
Oh, and off-off, the steering is MUCH heavier than de-powered stock steering. It's oddly heavy like you have a flat tire.
The adjustability is also surprisingly slow to take changes. If I make a change to the knob (which I rarely do), it takes a few second before you notice the difference in steering effort.
Only one thing that really annoys me, sometimes if I park the car with the wheel cocked and on the column lock, I think the EPAS recalibrates the strain gauge wrong on power-up. So it thinks I'm adding steering input when not touching the wheel.
A brief power cycle fixes it, but if I don't notice and l start driving, it immediately starts pulling the wheel one direction. But it's at least predictable lol.
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That sounds hokey as shit with the assist turning the wheel when its miscalibrated haha.
Thanks for the review! Sounds like a mixed bag. I honestly was always happy with the steering on my car, and now I'm hoping its even better with the turn1 pump upgrade. I have the seal kit. Just need to try and get it done. I thought the seal kit showed clips, but it only came with orings and seals. I got the $100 kit off amazon. Atkins is selling an OEM kit for $250 citing they're no longer available...
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If you get the shits with the rack I may consider swapping my EPA's setup out. It's a Chips (actually got it back) modded rack and the same column Alex has. The on center is just a little vague for my tastes but the vaviable assist tied to wheel speed is awesome.
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I have an EPAS in my Mustang with the "self adjusting" controller. I don't like it. It's too boosted for my taste and I have minimal ability to really adjust it. I ground a wire to "lower assist" at speed, but it's still too light for me when moving. I have a manual controller in a box somewhere (the one with the knob) that I think I'm going to swap back on, so that I can turn the boost down.
Other than that, I like it.
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Here's my unsolicited first-hand opinion on the EPAS. I have the epowersteering.com kit in my FC and like it. It's a decent drop-in solution. They use Saturn Vue/Chevy Traverse (IIRC) EPAS and graft it to the Mazda OEM column.
I believe it's very similar to the Toyota EPAS, since it also has a Koyo ECU. Wiring it up is easy and they include a trim pot to adjust the level of assist.
My car now has a welded torsion spring in the rack and removed the pistons, so it's not an apples to apples comparison. The old setup was OEM S4 rack, Sweet NASCAR GM Type2 pump, and Turn1 restrictor.
The EPAS is definitely a little more numb feeling, but also a little sharper without the springy-ness of the stock PS rack.
My car is purely a street car, so I can't comment if it's fast enough for stuff like drifting or AutoX.
There is definitely a slight delay in quick changes of direction, but not something I've really noticed unless I saw at the wheel at a standstill. I
t also self-centers better than my old rack and hydro PS. It packages pretty well, also.
I have a size 14 4E shoe and don't really notice the columns there.
The range of assist on my car isn't huge, but the level I like is somewhere in that range. Exidous also has the same kit, and he said he prefers it at the minimum.
Oh, and off-off, the steering is MUCH heavier than de-powered stock steering. It's oddly heavy like you have a flat tire.
The adjustability is also surprisingly slow to take changes. If I make a change to the knob (which I rarely do), it takes a few second before you notice the difference in steering effort.
Only one thing that really annoys me, sometimes if I park the car with the wheel cocked and on the column lock, I think the EPAS recalibrates the strain gauge wrong on power-up. So it thinks I'm adding steering input when not touching the wheel.
A brief power cycle fixes it, but if I don't notice and l start driving, it immediately starts pulling the wheel one direction. But it's at least predictable lol.
Thanks for the review.
I'm considering that kit for my race car.
The only thing that concerns me is the delay in response to adjustments. I wonder if that would interfere with speed-based variable assist from my ECU?
Then again, the manual adjustment might provide more predictable results on a race car, in which case it's a really minor issue.
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Thanks for the review.
I'm considering that kit for my race car.
The only thing that concerns me is the delay in response to adjustments. I wonder if that would interfere with speed-based variable assist from my ECU?
Then again, the manual adjustment might provide more predictable results on a race car, in which case it's a really minor issue.
For a race car where you're coming off the front straight into a slow 1st corner, I dunno if it'd react fast enough. But I leave mine in a fixed position and can't really give any first hand experience. I think Exidous has his wired to his ECU. The Epowersteering.com site has a few endorsements from people tracking their cars and several offroad vehicles. I don't regret installing mine, but my main motivation was space for bigger turbos and no more plumbing and potential leaks.
https://epowersteering.com/showcase/
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What is a good working OEM rack worth these days?
I am contemplating a Grannas rack with the epower steering kit OR a electrohydraulic pump from like a mazda 3 or dodge charger, just to be able to control the assist with the ecu. There is a company that makes a module for them now and super easy. You do need a good leak free rack to start with though.
When I priced options I was like wow $2k plus for a electric/manual set up is too much for a "nice to have" but then I see my rack may be worth enough to offset it partially.
I love the reviews and feedback. The parked with wheels cocked thing seems awful annoying!
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Kinger, Grannas is 20:1 only. Super slow.
I do have the ECU controlling the assist but it requires an ECU with an analog 0-5v OUT. Not many ECUs have that.
At speed I essentially have the assist as low as it can go. There is weight to the wheel so it's not bad. The "delay" in weight change is minimal. Under 1s for sure.
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I’m currently running the e-power steering kit. I have an atomic Rex manual rack and without the power assist it is exhausting driving the car on the race track, my shoulders and arms are sore by the end of the day and I’m in really good shape for a 49 year old.
I agree that it takes to long for the unit to adjust to your input but once you find the right amount of assist I found it to be a game changer, I felt so much more relaxed on track. On the street it’s great for parking and slow movements like parking my car on my 4 post lift. I also set it to almost no assist for highway pulls.
I’ve been thinking about changing the control knob to one with multiple settings, like one with 3-5 settings that click and locks into place. Kinda like selecting a pre determined setting. Do you guys think that will work? And is it possible?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It’s just a pot; if you got a multi position one with the right values (or a universal that you add resistors to) it should be doable.
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That's a good idea.
A rotary switch with resistors would allow you to dial-in specific assist levels that would be repeatable.
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Paul,
Test the resistance of the current pot. Find one on Mouser or Digikey with detents of the same resistance.
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I'm keeping my steering rack!!!!! My old man tackled it while I was wiring. He was able to drill and pull out the side seal without taking the rack apart. Just had to remove the inner tie rod on the one side. Such a relief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFrKAciVu8
I posted up on the Facebook group so I think everyone saw already, but I was able to go for a real drive! Took it out for 10-15 minutes and everything was perfect. I only got into it really lightly on the throttle. Just cracking this big throttle body gives you a lot of air, so I didn't putt around, but I really only got into it maybe 20% throttle. The clutch, trans and r&p all need to break in and have fluids swapped out.
The new catch can routing is working perfectly. Not a wisp of smoke came out. You no longer smell like burnt oil after a drive (I'm hoping that remains true, maybe a real test will be a longer drive).
The Tilton clutch has a slight shudder on take-off, but my tune is horrible just off idle. Right when the car starts moving the engine almost dies unless you feed it a lot of revs so I'm thinking with tune improvements and some break-in miles it should smooth out. It feels good and natural to drive I'm liking it a lot so far. Great news is the sprung hub and strapped floaters fully resolved my 1800 rpm vibration. There's still noise at that RPM you can tell it is a harmonic point in the drivetrain, but there's no vibration coming into the cabin.
I have just a touch too little clutch travel at the moment. I need to see if I can adjust the clutch rod enough, or if I need to modify the pedal. I'm feeling like I can't quite get it into 1st gear sometimes at a dead stop. If the car rolls a little it falls right in. I also had it balk on me going into gear a little if I wasn't perfectly on the floor (happened in the video going into 5th lol). I don't think this is a matter of break-in, I think I'll wind up hurting the syncros if I don't fix it. I'm going to be no lift shifting this thing so I want to make sure the clutch is fully disengaging lol.
On the topic of vibration, I continue to be amazed - this is the smoothest the car has ever felt. In a big way. I can't wait to really open this thing up and get it up to some triple digit speeds. I ran it up to ~80 mph just cracking the throttle and going through the gears. I think it is just years of refinement paying off. When I had my old single disk with a sprung hub, I still had the Samberg OEM diff mount and lots of driveshaft issues. There've been many incremental improvements. The engine seems smoother than my last one, the clutch is a world better, fixing the driveline lateral alignment, and road force balancing the wheels and tires all were major contributors.
After YEARS and multiple sets of gears, swapping to Ford Racing 3.73's finally fixed my gear whine issues. Different manufacturers, REM polishing - nothing prevented the gear howl with 3.90's. I know I for sure had two sets of 3.90's...maybe 3.
The car sounds really really good - it is surprisingly a lot quieter than the 402, which is odd. This LS7 is more cubes and has more overlap, but is way less rowdy sounding. Makes me think the cam might need to be a little bigger :evil: The goal was to make it a better street car so I can't sabotage myself unless it really doesn't run how I want haha. I always have the big motor to throw in later.
Left to do is just really simple stuff:
I/O module wiring
Tuck the wiring inside and finish install the ECU
Reinstall all the interior and mount the Holley screen
Clutch adjustment
Fit the hood
Alignment appointment
Tune, break-in, fluid flush and dyno appointment
Professional paint correction and cermic coat if the paint looks good enough to justify it
Less critical:
I have a new map pocket to install
Need a new stereo and speakers
Oil cooler desperately needed
I'm really considering swapping to a BTR Trinity to get rid of the awful noise from this sheet metal unit, but will dyno first to make sure I like the powerband
Finish the 3d printed intake duct project
I want a skidplate. My oil pan gets scrapes, and its been punctured once hitting a giant rock
Finish my Porsche BBK project I started ages ago
(https://i.imgur.com/Wv1SkX5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FnjJ8mv.jpeg)
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I'm getting curious again about how much power this thing ought to put down, and what the curve looks like.
If I just do benchrace napkin math, my 402 made just over 510 at the axle. As a 427 it would be ~545whp just for the increased cubic inch.
The 402 had stock ls3 heads, stock intake, smaller bore shrouding the intake valve, less compression, and a much smaller cam (226/242 on 117 with 600 lift vs 234/247 on 116 with 650 lift)..and would only horsepower peak at ~6000 rpm.
I have no concerns about reving this thing to 8000 if it'll keep putting out steam. I'd be thrilled to see horsepower peak at 7000 or higher with this smaller cam. The short runner intake manifold has the biggest impact on peak power RPM, and I also spec'ed the cam to close the intake valve around where a stage 3/4 cam does. It is just a question now if 234 degrees of intake duration can keep getting air in the cylinder at that RPM.
So...if I took my 402 and put better heads, a bigger cam, more compression and a better intake manifold I would really expect serious jump in power, maybe up to 540 or 550whp.
That would put the 427 at 575-585 whp with the same hp/cube.
Does not seem possible in the slightest?
I'm really not sure why I'm so pessimistic, but I expect this thing to under deliver on power compared to the napkin math. In the end, if it'll rev a lot and make 530whp I don't think I'm going to lose any sleep, but the napkin math isn't really much of a stretch. I think my main holdup is I've scoped out soooooo many C6Z builds of all different levels, and I've never really seen a small essentially "cam-only" build make 550whp+, and vettes have very little drivetrain loss.
I have never cared less about power output though lol I don't race it anymore, and I don't have a dragstrip to take it down, so until I get a draggy I won't have to deal with the reality of how "slow" it is in compared to all these roll race fucks that didn't exist back in my day lmao. It will definitely be enough to get rowdy.
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My 232/240 118 cam with stock ported intake was 520whp on a mustang dyno and 129-131mph. Now I have a ported MSD, electric everything and a nearly identical cam to yours. 234/248-116.5+3.5. Depending on compression, I don't think you'll have issues reaching those numbers. Plus you could always hop on a dyno jet. Haha
VIDEO NEEDS MOAR BEANS
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Definitely need more beans!! That's a great datapoint from your car thank you. Yea, my old dyno was on a dynapak hub dyno that closely compares close to a dynojet. I'll be on one or the other again for sure. I'll also have flex fuel on this setup and I did not have flex fuel for my 511whp dyno with the 402.
Normally I'm pretty spot on with my predictions, but I don't trust it this time for some reason haha. What might be getting me with C6Z comparisons is that no one typically is squeezing every horsepower out of a BTR Stage 1 cam swap lol.
It'll be a fun experiment with this intake - I've been chasing more of a "sports car" powerband for this car since I built it, and that is 100% the thing I'm most excited about vs a number. One thing for sure, it did NOT feel sluggish when I drove it lol.
I mentioned the Trinity intake last post, but there's also the Holley Ultralow that might work too. Looking at these dimensioned drawings I'm pretty sure I'm on crack though lol. After I fit the hood I'll know how much real-estate I actually have. My intake is 7" from the block valley to the highest point just behind the TB.
Trinity has an LS7 port, but puts the throttle body really high and forward.
(https://briantooleyracing.com/media/catalog/product/t/r/tra-7_on_block_copy.jpg?quality=80&bg-color=255,255,255&fit=bounds&height=&width=&canvas=:)
I really wish Holley had made an LS7 version of this intake. This would need intake flange adapters that are .5" thick.
(https://images.holley.com/aba473c63203285b3915b4e15e4f2e95585ccfe5.jpg)
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From the comparisons I've seen the MSD reigns supreme for area under the curve unless you're building an 8500RPM monster. With my old cam and LS7 intake, the cable nosed over pretty hard at 6200. Peak power was around there. Was also a 90mm TB. I'm going to a dual bosch 82mm setup that's the equivalent of an 116mm single with the resolution of an 82 since they'll be staged. Shainiac has helped me out a bit on the modelling since I'm still a noob.
Joel was kind enough to send me his radiator without the top plate so I can make my own for the dual 3.25" filter setup I'll be running. I'd LOVE to see 600whp but no way that'll happen without a cam in the 250s.
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From the comparisons I've seen the MSD reigns supreme for area under the curve unless you're building an 8500RPM monster. With my old cam and LS7 intake, the cable nosed over pretty hard at 6200. Peak power was around there. Was also a 90mm TB. I'm going to a dual bosch 82mm setup that's the equivalent of an 116mm single with the resolution of an 82 since they'll be staged. Shainiac has helped me out a bit on the modelling since I'm still a noob.
Joel was kind enough to send me his radiator without the top plate so I can make my own for the dual 3.25" filter setup I'll be running. I'd LOVE to see 600whp but no way that'll happen without a cam in the 250s.
Really excited to see your intake when done. Are you using 8 different GPOs for the 2 e throttles? I think it takes 4 per on MAxx.
Ported MSD is what you want @MPbdy
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Tony worked a C6Z package with a 237/249 on 114 cam that put out 635whp. We're kind of pushing new boundaries with these LS7 builds in the FD chassis. Not much info out there for NA combinations much over 550whp. That is also part of my lack of faith haha. I guess I'll start getting my hopes up a little more. It would definitely be nice if we could more easily fit a larger exhaust and headers.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-corvette-zr1-and-z06/4312830-evolution-of-the-ultimate-small-cam-ls7-combo-eggcrate-v3-build-650-hp-580-tq.html
From the comparisons I've seen the MSD reigns supreme for area under the curve unless you're building an 8500RPM monster. With my old cam and LS7 intake, the cable nosed over pretty hard at 6200. Peak power was around there. Was also a 90mm TB. I'm going to a dual bosch 82mm setup that's the equivalent of an 116mm single with the resolution of an 82 since they'll be staged. Shainiac has helped me out a bit on the modelling since I'm still a noob.
Joel was kind enough to send me his radiator without the top plate so I can make my own for the dual 3.25" filter setup I'll be running. I'd LOVE to see 600whp but no way that'll happen without a cam in the 250s.
Ported MSD is what you want @MPbdy
You're both not wrong - the MSD is by far the best all around option available, and somehow works for simple cam only builds all the way up to more extreme 650+whp combinations.
Sacrificing 30-40 ft lb is actually a feature not a bug for me with this short runner intake. I really want a tabletop flat broad torque curve like a single plane carb intake instead of the typical stair step lump of torque at ~4000 rpm that fades quite rapidly typical of the LS. These low profile intakes from what I have seen appear to peak where a typical single plane intake will, but will carry very flat after HP peak. I did originally choose this intake to pair with the solid roller engine with the huge cam, ported heads, more compression etc.
I also don't really want to buy a $2000 plastic intake that would cause me a lot of grief on throttle body fitment, cable routing, fuel rails and lines, and firewall fitment.
Even if performance is good with the low pro intake, but I can't find a resolution for the obnoxious sound it may force my hand into a change.
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Kinger,
It's just the two analog per throttle and two outputs for the motor. I'll probably have os SLS printed first in glass filled nylon like PA12 or 6.
The performance design carbon has the same low and midrange of the msd but carries well past 7500. Just have to contend with the extra 8in tall. Honestly, using an I take like yours makes sense for the chassis with an LS7. I have no shortage of low to midrange.
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In a timely post, someone just posted up a gorgeous FD with a trinity intake under my same hood.
btr makes the runners for the ls7 port as well. But I'm not sure if you can still get this plenum with the turn down for the TB mount which is a must or the TB hits.
I haven't been able to find exactly what he's talking about with the throttle body turndown - I do see BTR references version 2 runners, but does not talk about a different plenum design.
I did also reach out to Ironmaskairflow to get his optionion on ultralow vs the trinity - says he doesn't love either bc of the torque loss but understands if its a fitment thing. He said Trinity would be his preference. Funny I was just so happy about my strut brace fitting, and immediately I'm looking at an intake that would interfere lol.
One step at a time first - I'll get some performance data from the short runner intake before making a move.
This car makes me feel like I don't know wtf I'm doing.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/463019060_10234312384974690_3445908862909742371_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=bvBUSk0pqo0Q7kNvgEL-pMa&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&_nc_gid=AXYmzkMZlINni-frcy4CSEw&oh=00_AYDJVA8L0wPS3VvEt0DEqjJ_NNNW_HylBvA3_wkIuoQ8QQ&oe=671EF9B1)
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/463906372_10234312385574705_6567307695376601637_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=ZkCguYG7aSAQ7kNvgGD5MyJ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&_nc_gid=A-9ls7Qrx52cmHOdTA3-ERG&oh=00_AYBLkrLtFyRubaqoT9LmckgBJyHqzpIRZi5StRJiZcOMyw&oe=671EEC42)
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I see what he's talking about with the slanted vs straight flange orientation. Will have to talk to BTR, or hunt for a used one.
Old style
(https://m5n9s7m4.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/trinity-ls7_3_of_13_.jpg)
New style
(https://briantooleyracing.com/media/catalog/product/t/r/tra-7-p105-3.png?quality=80&bg-color=255,255,255&fit=bounds&height=615&width=683&canvas=683:615&format=jpeg)
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I wouldn't touch any of those. I looked at this ad nauseum and basically run the LS7 oem or MSD ported (ported is a must). Otherwise save your money.
I went with a ported Mamo MSD. I understand the hardships of getting it to fit and not looking forward to it but I want my 600whp mark :drive:
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Great news, and great progress.
Well crap.. I could have told you that ALL 8.8 3.90 gearsets whine badly a long time ago. Only OE Ford gears are quiet.
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Great news, and great progress.
Well crap.. I could have told you that ALL 8.8 3.90 gearsets whine badly a long time ago. Only OE Ford gears are quiet.
Thank you!
And yea, I read that many times lol. Definitely multiple posts by you in the past. Something about leading a horse to water, or I'm a retard idk. I don't remember how the saying goes. I just really wanted 3.90's lol.
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"You can lead MPbdy to water but you cannot make him use OE Ford gears."
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"You can lead MPbdy to water but you cannot make him use OE Ford gears."
And MSD intakes 😁😁
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That too. Ha
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I have a lot to update lol.
For now, here are some beans. Unfortunately its been a very long weekend and I've done this same test about 6 or 7 times now with all the same results.
Holley is still losing crank signal - this time at 6800 rpm religiously. It eventually after maybe 5-10 seconds finds RPM signal again and keeps running.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SbCbVB-8Z10
I have Holley exhaustion.
It sounds very cool.
It feels quite fast imo for what it is.
This is without any tune refinements outside of my start-up tune. It has only hit ~19* of timing so far too - I have a very soft timing curve going from 17 to 20* at WOT.
It feels SOTP like it is ready to start soaring above 7000 rpm.
I'll reserve judgement on low end torque until I've actually tuned the engine, but I've been WOT in 2nd gear at very low speeds and it is extremely stable and planted feeling. Its not even working the tire. I'm quite optimistic.
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Funny and annoying about the crank. I've heard a LOT of stories about Holley loosing sync with LS crank.
Timing with LS7 heads won't really need more than 23-24°. I'm at maybe 25° after peak torque and never saw knock but more timing made no power.
What tire? My RE-71RS(stickiest tires I've run by far) will break loose if I stab the throttle above 3500. 2nd at any RPM. Equiv to 1st and 2nd of a t-56. It's stable but gets nutty if I don't have the TC on.
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Yea. First pull I did left me giddy. The 6th or 7th, I’m a little frustrated lol. At least I’m not stuck in the garage free reving the engine like before.
On the engine dyno my solid roller motor still liked timing up to 28* on 100 octane. I figure on e85 I can find best power without risking it. On 91, 24 is about what I figured it’d want based on reading a lot of corvetteforum stuff. 5-6 more degrees on 91 and then e85 there should be a good bit of power in there.
Tires are Maxxis RC-1’s. They’re like a full slick lol. 275/35/18. I want to step down to a 255 square on a Yokohama, or see if the 285/30 fits on my 9.5” wheels. I think I have a chance to be happy with the 255 square though.
This was part of the plan though with the short runner intake. So far I’m feeling optimistic. It definitely is feeling like it wants to fly right before it gets cut off at 6800. Hoping to take it out to 7500 at least on the shifts.
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How's your engine braking? Mine was rather aggressive. Almost not situation required using the brakes. Ha
Had to add a bunch of are to the throttle target table about 2k rpm. Love the things you can do with DBW.
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How's your engine braking? Mine was rather aggressive. Almost not situation required using the brakes. Ha
Had to add a bunch of are to the throttle target table about 2k rpm. Love the things you can do with DBW.
Hmmm. Nothing has stood out dramatically different compared to my 402. I rev match down to 2nd gear almost every time I’m slowing down because it’s really fkn fun and sounds good. It definitely slows down quickly when you’re coasting down.
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Random unsolicited update on my EPAS - I emailed epowersteering.com about why my power column would pull to one side randomly on startup. His response was that I must have a loose connector under the dash. I kind of rolled my eyes but I unplugged and replugged everything and I've had no issues now for 2 weeks of daily driving.
Today I drove my Lexus LS460 for the first time in 2 weeks (because rain lol), and the factory steering is a little heavier than the setting I've been driving in my FC.
Again, not a track car, but I quite like the EPAS for a street car.
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Random unsolicited update on my EPAS - I emailed epowersteering.com about why my power column would pull to one side randomly on startup. His response was that I must have a loose connector under the dash. I kind of rolled my eyes but I unplugged and replugged everything and I've had no issues now for 2 weeks of daily driving.
Today I drove my Lexus LS460 for the first time in 2 weeks (because rain lol), and the factory steering is a little heavier than the setting I've been driving in my FC.
Again, not a track car, but I quite like the EPAS for a street car.
Glad you like the EPAS.
I'm trying to finish up some other projects so I can get back to my racecar.
I'm definitely gonna be giving Epowersteering a call.
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I have a lot to update lol.
For now, here are some beans. Unfortunately its been a very long weekend and I've done this same test about 6 or 7 times now with all the same results.
Holley is still losing crank signal - this time at 6800 rpm religiously. It eventually after maybe 5-10 seconds finds RPM signal again and keeps running.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SbCbVB-8Z10
I have Holley exhaustion.
It sounds very cool.
It feels quite fast imo for what it is.
This is without any tune refinements outside of my start-up tune. It has only hit ~19* of timing so far too - I have a very soft timing curve going from 17 to 20* at WOT.
It feels SOTP like it is ready to start soaring above 7000 rpm.
I'll reserve judgement on low end torque until I've actually tuned the engine, but I've been WOT in 2nd gear at very low speeds and it is extremely stable and planted feeling. Its not even working the tire. I'm quite optimistic.
Ok, so - I said there was more to the story. I got real busy and haven't had time to write this up. I've been traveling for work this week.
I had a pretty f'ed weekend working on this thing. I regret going so deep into Holley ecosystem.
I go up last Friday like usual to wrench and had plans to return on Sunday and maybe be putting finishing touches on the car and a bunch more break-in miles. I arrived in the morning - decided to take the car out for 2nd of 3 drives to put some miles and heat into the diff so I can swap the fluid. I was going to drive it in the morning, and in the evening, and then change the fluid on Sunday.
So, I drive for 15 minutes or so and I'm loving it. Taking it easy, but still getting a feel for the car again and bombing around a bit. I'm staying close to the house in case anything happens.
I'm driving down a hill and I feel it cut out a couple times as if I'm running out of gas. No sweat - I used to run out of gas with about 3-4 gallons still in the tank because Mazda didn't know how to build cars properly in the 90's lol. I stop at the stop light and the car is idling fine...figure on flat ground I'd be ok. I turn right into the main road, and I go about 20 feet before the car sputters a bunch of times and then just dies entirely. I park and call my mom to come rescue me with some of our 91 octane "race gas" from Chevron that we use in our pump gas drag race cars lol. Ironically, this is the same stretch of road I've run out of gas on before because my wife (then GF) didn't want to stop for fuel at the end of date night one night, but I had a bit more momentum and was able to crest the hill, and then push it into my neighborhood. This time it looked like I just stopped for an impromptu photoshoot and roasted myself on instagram for everyone to laugh at lol. I was also kind of surprised but I was there about 20 minutes on the side of the road and only one person eventually stopped to see if I needed help. He has a 1972 rx2 I guess and said the car looked great - I told him don't look up front it has a 427 in it lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ad23Qit.jpeg)
Put a splash of gas in it and decide to head to the gas station a couple miles down the road. My old man was just getting home too as I was stranded on the side of the road so he followed me to the gas station to make sure I don't get stuck again. I get 3/4 of the way there and it starts to act up again, but this time I notice my tach is jumping around. I killed the ignition at a stop light not knowing if it was fuel level or what was going on...refired it luckily, and made it the short stretch into the gas station parking lot coasting and keeping up speed as the car is sputtering and trying to die. JUST MADE it on fuel - so I thought lol.
Fill up the tank, and it clicks off around 18 gallons. First time a light bulb went off, and I really thought back to the tach jumping around. I definitely should have been able to keep driving if it only took 18 gallons. I've put over 19 in it back in the day when I didn't have a surge tank in it so I know I can get it down to fumes.
(https://i.imgur.com/gL9oRIg.jpeg)
Also, as I'm filling up the car I've got 3 people stopping to talk to me about it. One told me about his friend's 1100whp rotary rx7 - totally believable. A couple wanted to know more about the car. Meanwhile I'm just trying to get home again lmao! It is going to take some getting used to again I forgot how much (male) attention this car gets lol.
Well, I fire the car up and try to leave the gas station and I go about 2 feet before it dies. Crank again drive a few feet and dies. Fired up again, made it to the other side of the parking lot and it dies in the way of everyone. Try again and it won't even start. Got out and pushed it into a parking spot lol. Now I'm getting glares from people haha. More attention, wrong kind.
Luckily I had my laptop with me to do some datalogging and I saw that when the car was sputtering the RPM was reading either Error! or Sync. Both are bad news obviously. I go in and disable the cam sensor and enable batch fire and cross my fingers...luckily that was enough to get me moving again, although it had cleared my fuel learn table and I was back on the struggle bus, but at least able to move more than a couple feet at a time lol.
Now mind you, this quick drive has now soaked up a solid hour and a half lol. I was heading back to the house and I am taking off from the stoplight, and I thought break-in miles be damned, I'm not going back to the garage to start diagnosing cam/crank sensor issues again without feeling this thing at WOT. I figure if I don't slam the throttle, and don't bang gears or slip the clutch crazy, simply rolling into it in 2nd isn't going to hurt anything. I roll into it from ~30 mph at around 3000 rpm and it definitely gets my attention while I'm also staring at my AFR to make sure the closed loop fueling is doing its job. I see it hit 12.5:1 afr and its really coming into the powerband above 5000 rpm. I really was excited to see how the power carries above 7000 - and right as its about to start screaming past 7 it pops and backfires and loses ignition and the tach drops to zero lol (actual engine revs are still way up there) - so even with the cam sensor disabled, the crank sensor shit the bed at high rpm.
Long story longer, I bought my dad a Gen4 holley harness and a digital dash for our stroked LS3 powered malibu station wagon. We've wanted a datalogger in that car for ages, and the autometer tach shit the bed, so using my old termi-X and a digital dash to get a datalogger and a new tach suddenly seemed like a great proposition.
Well, my dad told me I need to swap harnesses, and he made me steal back his birthday present and we wrenched from ~3pm to midnight and ripped out the old engine harness and completely rewired the car undoing a couple months of work and redoing it in record time. We were almost back together, but ran out of energy at midnight and just set the intake and I decided I'd come back Sunday to finish it up. Lemme tell ya...there is an appropriate order to assembling a car, and installing the harness last is not the correct way to do it. Huge pain in the ass.
Out with the old:
(https://i.imgur.com/gNyjp0d.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HMlqnND.jpeg)
In with the new:
(https://i.imgur.com/DlGPCWL.jpeg)
Proper sentiment for midnight:
(https://i.imgur.com/XXoE1DV.jpeg)
I went back Sunday with the wifey as my parents are on vacation now, and that is where the video is from on the post above. I made probably 6 or 7 pulls in total now testing all different combinations of tune changes and physical changes I can think of to no avail. Like clockwork at just over 6800 rpm the thing will lose ignition and die. I take a system log and I see where the crank pulses start to smear together and eventually the engine loses its place and kills the ignition. After swapping the harness, I will say this is the best the cam sensor pulses have ever looked.
(https://i.imgur.com/PKmuIel.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MQpFMhK.jpeg)
My last hail Mary, I have a genuine GM sensor coming from a dealership to replace it this coming Friday and pray that it resolves the issue. If not I'm really at the end of the road. I've had two of everything and have always had cam and crank sensor issues - two different engines w/ different sensors, two harnesses, and two computers. I've completely isolated the Holley stuff from the Mazda wiring, and everything power and ground has been connected directly to the battery. Grounds are huge and multiple. It really just doesn't make any sense why there'd be a problem. On the LS2 I just accepted that it was an aftermarket crank, aftermarket cam gear etc. This LS7 is the factory sensor, and factory rotating assembly that was assembled by GM.
End of the day I'm really thankful I did the irresponsible thing and got on it on the way home because first of all, I wouldn't have known there was a high rpm issue, and I wouldn't have known it was isolated to the crank sensor when the cam sensor has been most suspect up until this point. Second of all, I got a huge hit of adrenaline, and also dopamine hearing this thing at full song. The adrenaline was more from the thing backfiring and shutting off on me suddenly than pure speed, but I've been riding that high through all the rewiring and diagnostic bullshit I've been going through.
I'm quite optimistic about this engine combination I put together, and the rest of the drivetrain is feeling more refined than ever. I just really have to get this sensor issue resolved or I'm going to be hurting in a big way.
Pulses are supposed to look like this for a 58x, 60-2 type wheel:
(https://i.imgur.com/RuO5AX7.png)
This is how they look, or even more smeared together before the thing cuts out:
(https://i.imgur.com/xmCuCH7.png)
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Uffda - this is when I get annoyed with project cars.
It has to be a flaw in holley don't you think? it would be interesting to swap to a diff brand of ECU but holy heck that is way too much work so I see how you feel stranded. The only thing I can think of is noise, I assume you have shielded wire going to both sensors and its chassis grounded at the ECU only right? The LS is weird in that it doesn't appear to need shielding in some wiring harness but I am definitely going to run new shielded wires on mine. Maybe my 6000 rpm break up on factory GM ECU I have is that I don't know. I do know shielding them has zero consequence and so it will get done on my build
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Interesting on the Holley. I had similar issues with my BS3 and my ProEFI on my old RX7. Could never really sort it out and ran out of patience. The only ECU that ever seemed happy a high RPM in that car was the OEM. I don't know why aftermarket ECUs seem to have issues with triggers. So far so good on Haltech for me, but man, this crap is frustrating.
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Not to cause scar, but have you checked the end play on the crank. I've had several friends with drag cars that developed crank signal loss. Several times it was from the torque converter pressure at high rpm pushing the crank reluctor forward and the sensor missing the teeth. Usually it ended in a worn thrust bearing, too. Should be less of an issue on a manual car, unless you have a gnarly pressure plate.
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100%. I feel like Holley is just straight garbage at this point. If you read the forums and the Facebook page it’s just full of people with issues with the cam and crank sensors. Thought a more mature and simple platform like the Holley would be pretty robust, but nah. Often it sounds like it’s just improper wiring or grounds, which I know is not my problem.
The Holley harness uses shielded wire from the ECU to the sensors. The factory harness does not surprisingly.
I have no PWM or switching electronics in the car except for a single wire output creating a tach signal since the Holley’s native output is a V8 signal instead of a 4 cylinder signal and I didn’t want to remove my fragile dash to reprogram my speedhut tach.
I can disable that output and try again as I have RPM on my digital dash from Holley, but short of any RF generated electrical noise I already fully electrically isolated the PWM wire from any 12V that the Holley sees and it made no difference. As it is, it’s got a high impedance pull-up resistor so it’s not like the noise is getting back to the 12V bus. This is such a weak signal there’s no way it’s getting through shielded wiring and causing this issue it would be a longshot.
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Not to cause scar, but have you checked the end play on the crank. I've had several friends with drag cars that developed crank signal loss. Several times it was from the torque converter pressure at high rpm pushing the crank reluctor forward and the sensor missing the teeth. Usually it ended in a worn thrust bearing, too. Should be less of an issue on a manual car, unless you have a gnarly pressure plate.
I’m positive we did when checking out the short block. It’s a factory assembled GM short block and the bottom end looked ok when we had it apart. Might be hard to do in the car now, but yes that is the only mechanical reasoning where this might be happening outside of an improper airgap.
Given that it’s exactly at 6800 rpm every time I feel it’s more electrical than a mechanical issue.
I’ll try the new sensor tomorrow and hope it’s the solution.
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My local tuner has been around a while and has tuned -- or tried to tune -- virtually all the "mass market" aka "hobbyist grade" aftermarket EFI systems and now flat out refuses to work on any fuel injected car that doesn't use an OEM ECU. The problem isn't the tuning, it's the weird failures. He ended up chasing tunes, trying to solve "tuning" problems that were really hardware issues. He also got tired of customers yelling at him after getting stranded with component failures that he had no control over.
Of course, the problem comes with wanting / needing capabilities that the OEM ECU can't provide. When the factory race teams run into that, it seems like a lot of them end up using Motec but man, you gotta pay big $$ to play with that.
I think the Holley and similar price point systems can work fine on a dedicated race car that virtually never sees the real world of street driving. I realize plenty of people use them on the street with mostly good results. My personal test for any control system -- or any part, period -- in a street car: would I be confident to just get in the car, gas it up, and drive it cross country like a stock mini van?
I sure hope you get it sorted MPbdy, it's a cool car.
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Thanks dude! Yea, the robustness of an OEM ECU is nearly incomparable in the aftermarket. I know Exidous is going to tell me to swap to a MaxxECU haha.
Holley wouldn’t have a field full of cars at two dedicated LSFest events if the stuff was entirely shit, but man when you get bit it’s certainly painful.
I specifically ordered a sensor from a dealership because of reading horror stories of people having to buy 3 or 4 crank sensors before finding one that actually works. Rumors of ACDelco sensors shipped off Amazon that aren’t genuine etc. This type of cut and try BS is not up to snuff.
It seems at this point I could likely put a long runner intake on this thing and keep the limiter set to 6500 and be fine, but it’s gotta party haha. This is also a testbed for the solid roller motor that I’d want to spin to 8k. I sure am glad I’m not trying to diagnose these issues with that monster in the car.
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I think buying the sensor from the dealership is a smart move, and heck yeah, the first time you wind that sucker past 7k and it's pulling hard, it'll be awesome!
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I agree man. OEM PCMs offer so much more resolution & refinement, howbeit that depth does come with increased complexity the more extreme the build is.
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Thanks dude! Yea, the robustness of an OEM ECU is nearly incomparable in the aftermarket. I know Exidous is going to tell me to swap to a MaxxECU haha.
I would NEVER do that but yes, you should do that. Only trigger issues I've had were with sensors crapping out. Lifetime warranty duralast gets old after swapping once or twice.
That being said, I get zero breakup ever with nasty shift cuts for the DCT. Glorious. 7200RPM all day. Tefzel shielded, mil spec connectors. My run is all the way to behind the rear bin. Crank, cam and knock are always a good idea to shield.
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I guess I'll stop slandering the Holley stuff. The new sensor took care of it!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P0mYTV7MlXc
7600 rpm baby!!
I did it a few times maybe just to verify :D
Now I need to wrap my brain around wtf I need to do next hahaha I got a little derailed to say the least hahaha
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Glad to hear it! And a good warning to all the rest of us about where to buy sensors.
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I disliked the video because you are convincing me to forgo my kid's Christmas gifts this year to buy an LS7.
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Thanks Holmes!
I disliked the video because you are convincing me to forgo my kid's Christmas gifts this year to buy an LS7.
Damn hahaha. I got this complete engine w/ recently serviced heads for only $5500 before I dumped a little money into it :grin: I've seen LS3's listed for more money. The powerplant is killer so far. I think on break-in I probably need another 480 miles on the clutch and trans lmao. The new ring and pinion are probably broken in by now. I need to wrap the rest of the car up now so I can put some windshield time in.
Reflecting back on today, the engine did seem to run better and more consistent today. I think the timing was moving around as the crankshaft was losing position. I got on it a good 3-4 times today and it ran great each time. One of them I rev matched down to 2nd and hooked it around a corner and rolled into 2nd gear and it drove into a light wheel spin. It didn't blow the tires off so I thought it would hook up eventually, but as the RPM climbed it just kept hazing the tire until I lifted around 6000 lol. I am so far really quite stoked on the power delivery with this short runner intake it is super fun. Hazing 275 wide slicks in the midrange - not seeming short on torque lol. I can't wait to start banging gears and driving it hard.
With the ignition problem resolved I was honestly a little stunned and didn't know what to do next lol. NGL I lost quite a bit of time texting everyone I could think of hahaha.
I futzed around a bunch with the I/O expansion module. Took me a while to understand how to communicate with it in Holley's software. The I/O's aren't the most intuitive in their software overall. I spent quite a bit of time trying to plan these remaining wires and programming all my added I/O.
I ran a couple wires back to my trunk area for controlling my second fuel pump, and to try and wire into my fuel level sender as my Speedhut gauge has been stuck on full no matter what. Well, the fuel pump wire works, but my fuel level sender still reads 100%. I may be stuck pulling that surge tank back out of the gas tank to check the wiring, but I just put a full tank of gas in it unfortunately.
I also tried the AC again today and it seems to not be cycling on. I'm hoping I don't have a leak.
And lastly, now that I could communicate with it via the I/O module, I see that my flex fuel sensor is not reading unless Chevron pumps E0 now which I know is not going to be true in California lol.
So I'm still in a bit of wiring hell, mixed with troubleshooting and learning the Holley, but it should be forward motion only from here on.
Also, this! Way stoked about this beast of an oil cooler from Improved Racing. It's a triple pass, and holds 2 quarts on its own not counting the lines. They say it can support endless lapping in a 650+ hp corvette in the same orientation I want to install mine. I've never had one on this car, and coincidentally I've also never had an oil temp gauge. I got one of their thermostat adapters that mounts where the oil filter is. I got the 212* thermostat since my cooler is so large lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/GR3NPkF.jpeg)
Now that I moved my battery to the trunk I have all this space down low behind the radiator. I'm going to mount it parallel to the ground with a small air dam - maybe a printed scoop or something to promote air to pass through it.
(https://i.imgur.com/dlFTAOE.jpeg)
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Happy Thanksgiving! Finally got some updates!! Pretty stoked about them too. Long and short of it, after thrashing on this thing completely rewiring it in a weekend, and finally resolving the cam/crank sensor issues, I realized I was kind of burnt out again lol. I also had an awesome birthday weekend planned by my wife last weekend for a big group of us to go climbing together in Joshua Tree.
I think I'm 4 days into working on this thing since the last post, but had a couple with slow progress. Been up a couple times this week already though and it is turning out awesome.
The most exciting part is this oil cooler. Everything fits exaclty like I had hoped. My old man helped me get all this mounted up. The brackets he made with just a torch, hammer, and a vice without a single square edge on it lol. First try on both brackets too. It is super solidly mounted, and I ordered extra of these bitchin 8mm rubber isolators. I squirted a coat of paint on the steel brackets today. We still have to weld up the piece of aluminum angle that is spanning the two sway bar mounts. Lastly, need finish it off with a small scoop and build the lines and mount the thermostat adapter. The lines are a dead straight shot under the engine stand I really can't wait to show off the final packaging.
This is Improved Racing's own cooler. I have lines and fittings and heatshield on order now too that will be here Monday. With this cooler I can actually get the car on a big track for once.
In other topics, my AC worked fine today, and I was able to resolve my wiring issues with the I/O's. I dug through so much in the harness and in the software and really was getting bummed out again about some of my sensors not working, and then finally I realized.........I had the pins in the wrong holes of the connector lmao. I also was able to wire in another input for the AC, so now I can trigger my fans, and I can do an IAC kick for the AC if I need to.
So I've been able to check quite a bit off my list, with more to shortly follow with finishing the cooler install. With the AC and fans working, I can final mount the ECU and tuck the harness inside the car and get the interior back together. That I really cannot wait for because then I can finally take my family out in the car.
(https://i.imgur.com/eshYJPm.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cn2wsVv.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4yL873M.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GdMkx1A.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bsyu98K.jpeg)
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That oil cooler looks nice. Clearance to the WP looks TIGHT, hah.
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Yea its nuts to butts in there lol.
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Haha, I was looking at the Vette cooler of theirs but ended up with two of the 514s they make for oil. Transmission ended up with a laminova from a crown vic NOS on eBay.
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Did you mount the 514's up under the headlights? I have some bussmann relay boxes under both headlights and really didn't want to redo all that lol.
Those oil to water coolers are neat. I thought quite a bit about one, but I don't have a super high regard for the total cooling power in the FD with the Samberg radiator. I figured the heat exchanger would just put more of a heat load into the radiator. Packaging wise they're super convenient.
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Ya they're under the headlights. I made a pair of brackets that are laser cut. I'm not entirely happy about the height. Too high. Need to go back a hair and down to fit with the 99 brake ducts better.
The rad is the Ronin and tied with the delta pag fans, cooling isn't an issues. It's just the trans and the less I slip it the less it adds. It's more about warming up the trans than cooling it off and to add active cooling for stop and go.
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(https://i.imgur.com/DpmSYjN.png)
I'm so close! Worked on it a few times over this past week. I have some work events Thurs/Fri this coming week unfortunately, and then taking off for vacation in December. We're going to hang out with Joel in Hawaii for 5 days! Going to be a lot of fun. I'm hoping to get 1 or 2 days before Christmas on it, and then I should be able to wrap it up between xmas and new years and put some real miles on it.
The engine bay...dare I say I might be done with wiring. My hands are physically shredded I don't have any skin left lol.
You don't get to see inside yet it still looks like a disaster zone, but I believe I'm ready to tuck everything into the footwell and final mount the ECU. I'm beyond excited.
(https://i.imgur.com/e0UNpKS.jpeg)
Drakes printed me a bezel for the Holley screen a looooong time ago. Finally got to put it on. Overall happy with it. I'm a little concerned if it'll be able to survive long term here with the leverage, but if it survives I'm thrilled with it otherwise.
(https://i.imgur.com/ixWKUXf.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HFLnVKM.jpeg)
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That screen mount is pretty slick.
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That mount is cool! I've seen some of Drakes reverse engineering and printing videos, cool stuff. That's impressive print quality for FDM.
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I had a great day working on this thing on Friday. It has been crazy busy here with work stuff, and we're heading out on vacation on Weds coming back Xmas eve. I really wanted to make sure the oil cooler was done and the car was drivable again when I got back from vacation. I think the week after Christmas I'll have this thing completely back together and driving around. I can't wait! I want to speed run the break-in miles over break the break.
Getting the I/O sorted for the clutch switch was my last bit of wiring that needed to happen. That led to some fun testing the 2 step. You know, to verify the wiring :D
Here's the logic - I've got one clutch switch input. Based on engine RPM I want it to either activate Rev limiter 1, or 2 in the Holley. The lower will be for launch control and fucking around, and the higher will be for no lift shifting. I had forgotten.....that I programmed the upper limit to have an activation window of only .225 seconds - enough time for a shift and that's it.
So, my first test (which actually was successful), sent this thing to 7800 rpm in a flash LOL. It revs so damn fast! I guess it's the titanium rods, and this big open plenum intake with a straight shot to the valve. I also don't think I've ever heard a full throttle rev to redline in any of my cars LOL.
It sounds wicked. I can't wait to hear this thing screaming on the road at 7800 rpm and banging gears lol. My poor mom was just chillin in the garage with me reading her book and I sent this thing to outer space haha
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mH8bXSwelqA
Here is the successful test. I never got to play around with this before. The no lift shifting and e85 were implemented on the test drive I blew it up :D
https://youtube.com/shorts/rhTa6Ix7zW8?si=1mGjWDoFdfFGm2oG
We also got the oil cooler installation done! Man that was a huge bitch mounting the thermostat between the headers and the block lol! I wound up using a screwdriver bit with a 5mm head drive on it, and a quarter inch wrench to turn the allen key. My hands were so cramped working in such a tight space with your hand smashed into the headers lol.
Overall super stoked, and really happy despite the bitching that it goes on there with the headers installed. I didn't want to go backwards. Put some badass heatshield on the lines by the header, and there is about 3/4" air gap away from any tube. Not worried at about it at all.
Fired it up again and saw no leaks so I'm calling it good! Just need to crimp two wires and reinstall the swaybar.
(https://i.imgur.com/GfM2kPo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HwKxQxu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lrKwjct.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/sdk4eGw.png)
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Progress looks great!
And wow, that thing revved stupid fast, that's impressive.
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Merry Christmas folks! My wife and I had a quick detour - went to visit Joel from Ronin on the big island in Hawaii! He may have also stuck me in his car and I got to wheel it pretty hard at an autox :D Lots of pics and video to upload later.
I was able to get up to work on the car today. We're back on the ground!!!
Reinstalled the sway bar, and bent a little chin spoiler for the cooler. Calling this thing done.
(https://i.imgur.com/VZb5yJF.jpeg)
The inside, interior is back together - harness and computer tucked away in the kick panel.
(https://i.imgur.com/Fz5ssxx.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7olA5IA.jpeg)
Ran out of light and time, but test fit the hood and saw how much interference I've got. I expected to need to make a bit of a cut on this opening. It seems like it'll clear with extra space everywhere else, but hard to tell until I get the hood latched.
(https://i.imgur.com/0FNuDRi.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VXJCju0.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tiOf1gZ.jpeg)
With the interior back in, I finally was able to take my old man for a ride. Only one gremlin - oil pressure started out reading normally, but then was over 100 psi at idle, and then started climbing even more as we watched it. Pegged out at 128 psi. Turned the car off and keyed it back on and it read 91 psi... I ordered another sender. Really strange that it read normally when leaving the house, and gradually over time it railed out to a high reading. This sender is from the original 2006 GTO I got my LS2 from so maybe it just coincidentally decided to die. The only wiring change I've made is that I spliced in the oil temp sensor but I can't see that having any impact. Also it read just fine leaving the driveway, and then went crazy high output during the drive.
Anyway, my old man is super stoked. The car is truly very nice at the moment. Next time up I'll work on getting the hood trimmed and installed, and also work on the tune. I haven't done any tuning beyond my base calibration I grafted from my LS2, which also never got dialed in very well on the Holley. The tune right now has a big dead spot just above idle which is making taking off from a stop quite difficult. Other than that the idle, idle recovery from dropping RPM, and driving the car around all feels surprisingly good. I'll take a swing at tuning it myself but I may go for the faster approach and tag in a professional remote tuner for the Holley stuff.
I snuck in a little 2nd gear pull on the way back and the car just lightly tries to spin the tires getting into the higher rpm's, and shifting by butt dyno when I glanced down I had run 2nd gear out to ~7600 rpm. 3rd gear felt super strong when I rolled back into it. It is too early to say mission accomplished, but it is feeling really special to drive.
Can't wait until I've got all the break-in miles done and fluids flushed. I need to feel this thing stretch it's legs a bit.
I'm also excited because I'm still just running around with 18-20 degrees of timing maximum. It can definitely take more on 91 octane, and I still have flex fuel to play with and enough fuel system to run pure e85.
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I think you'll find you're not really knock limited with LS7 heads unless the comp is quite high. I got to about 23-24° and saw no more power or knock going as far as 27°.
Stock senders seem surprisingly unreliable. Have swapped two oil p and three crank in the last 3 months at work. Most of our work is old Holden stuff and diesels. LS are getting more and more common though.
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I figured 24* is where I’d wind up on 91, and maybe 28* on E. My big ls7 on the engine dyno took up to 28 on 100 octane. I’ll hopefully dyno the car pretty soon so I don’t have to guess at it.
Sucks on the senders. When you order genuine OEM now too they’re not the original sensors. I had a new sender deliver today I’ll toss it in before I drive it again hopefully that fixes it.
I do still need to check the gas tank and see why my fuel level sender is not reading properly. Worried that the float got hung up on something.
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I moved onto the short style Honeywell makes. They've done me well so far.
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So the oil pressure issue was indeed the sender so that was luckily an easy fix.
I was also able to drive it around for about an hour today and get a few pulls in. You know, break-in pulls :yay: It was fun rolling up to a buddy's house who has never seen the car and give him a ride. He was pretty speechless after I wound it out for him.
I nagged my dad into being a test driver for me so I could grab a video. Riding passenger is always such a strange experience. Feels way more serious from the right side. He wound 3rd out to 7300 and it was still pulling hard af, and 4th was ready to go. I should be able to get it on the dyno relatively soon. The powerband seat of the pants feels super wide and it certainly feels quicker than before even with 3.73's vs 3.90's.
My company gave me an amazon card for my 3yr work anniversary so I also ordered a Dragy tonight which is definitely going to be a heartbreaker. I'll have two shifts 60-130 unless I take 3rd gear to 8300 rpm lmao, and while the car is at a fun power level I don't expect miracles haha. I think I'd be pretty impressed by a sub 6.5 second 60-130. I don't think a sub 6 second 60-130 is in the cards with this mild of a build. That is getting into very stout C6Z territory.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W6vCcf9NYJc
Before driving it I mityvac'ed a ton of air out of my clutch hydraulics. The car drives a lot better now.
(https://i.imgur.com/J9JcsS0.jpeg)
Got the hood on today! It needed a little trimming, but not a lot.
(https://i.imgur.com/IMcjtiP.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7tpEqPh.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bZAoM42.jpeg)
I think it just about deserves a wash finally.
(https://i.imgur.com/SrfROKg.jpeg)
Also, I need input - does the rear need to be raised up or is it just an optical illusion? It always catches my eye that it looks low in the rear, but the fender heights are where they're supposed to be.
(https://i.imgur.com/TBkv1K1.jpeg)
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I'm really curious to see what your tq curve looks like. Our engines are rather similar except I have the MSD intake.
440 11.8:1
Tsp ported to 265cc
234/248-116.5+3.5 .660"
Ported MSD
Will be dual Bosch 82mm TB soon 116mm equiv single.
Ronin headers modded for the DCT. Single 3.5" put back.
Dyno'd an impressive 518rwhp with stock intake, 90mm TB and slightly smaller cam on a Mustang dyno.
What all needed trimming on the hood? I've always liked that hood. If it was made without the center port I'd have bought one by now.
I'd measure fender to ground. I've always ran 25" front and rear.
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I'm really curious to see what your tq curve looks like. Our engines are rather similar except I have the MSD intake.
440 11.8:1
Tsp ported to 265cc
234/248-116.5+3.5 .660"
Ported MSD
Will be dual Bosch 82mm TB soon 116mm equiv single.
Ronin headers modded for the DCT. Single 3.5" put back.
Dyno'd an impressive 518rwhp with stock intake, 90mm TB and slightly smaller cam on a Mustang dyno.
What all needed trimming on the hood? I've always liked that hood. If it was made without the center port I'd have bought one by now.
I'd measure fender to ground. I've always ran 25" front and rear.
Yea I’m super curious too. You’ve got more cubes, more compression, better heads, and the best pound for pound ls7 intake available.
The hood trim was just the small section of flat in the front vent. You can see it in the close up picture. I agree I’ve always wanted this hood with no front vent it would be the perfect swap hood.
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I've always liked the look of painted carbon where just the vents are bare. Would make covering it up pretty easy.
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I got my car on a dyno on Sunday! I know there's going to be some huge skepticism in the numbers, but the car is very fast...and pulls relentlessly. I got a Dragy and I'm excited to give it a shot and see if I can put up anything that would actually back up this kind of horsepower. It has got to be pushing a low 6 or even breaking into a high 5 60 to 130 time. I did however on my first drive home in a few years get popped going allegedly very fast and am still waiting to get the love letter in the mail to see what all that is going to entail. I ought to maybe not risk that happening again until I know what the outcome of this debacle is...
Beyond the numbers, I'm extremely excited about the power curve and just how freaking fast the car is in every gear at every rpm. I don't care if the dyno says 530 or 630, I have finally achieved my goal. I've put so much effort into figuring out how to build a high rpm powerband that is properly suited for a sportscar without needing a massive camshaft. Typically with a normal long runner intake and a small cam you wind up with just a huge lump of torque in the midrange that runs out of breath early like my old combo that fell like a rock above 6000rpm.
The key to the whole combo is the Holley sniper low pro. This thing performs like a super victor single plane intake, in a low profile front feed package. Unfortunately it won't fit under the stock hood, and because it is undamped sheet metal it is really noisy at idle, but when you're actually out driving the car with the hood on it the noise is not so bad. The high rpm performance is out of this world.
I also spec'ed the cam myself with high rpm in mind, and built the valvetrain planning to spin this thing to 8000 rpm if it wanted it.
It is super tractable and predictable to drive with how flat and broad the torque curve is, and you can really get on it at lower rpm and it doesn't just ignite the tires which is exactly what I was looking for.
More or less the TL;DR:
The SAE corrected dyno numbers
91 octane:
616whp @ ~7000 rpm, 552 ft lb @ ~5300 rpm
E85 (E65 blend):
614whp with 4 more degrees of timing, and .5 afr leaner
> 600whp from ~6200rpm to 7500rpm, and pulls to 7800
>500whp from ~3500 rpm to 6500 rpm
Now, because the numbers were so unbelievable, I wanted to know what the uncorrected numbers were to give them the sniff test. I had the weather station data from the dyno, so I worked backwards with a calculator and saw the following
Uncorrected 91: 594whp
Uncorrected E85: 586whp
Being an inertia drum style dyno, uncorrected numbers are what they are...kind of hard to fudge those.
We noticed an issue where the morning runs made a lot more power, and then as we tried to make more it seemed to fall off even with a lower coolant temp. Also, the e85 runs made less power, and it was at a lower coolant temp because the ethanol cools the engine so much.
Well, my fans don't come on until 195, and with the cooling fans off the intake was sucking hot air back in through the radiator at high rpm. It would start at ambient, and by the end of the pull the air temp was 100 degrees.
So, I took the IAT and baro readings and re-did the SAE correction factor and got the following
91 octane: 610whp SAE
E85 SAE: 620whp SAE
This makes a lot more sense with the E85 results, and gives a second route to calculating out a 600whp result.
I will do my best to try and backup the numbers someday, but my primary goal was the driving experience over total power, and for that without a doubt I'm saying mission accomplished.
LS7 SBE 427, 11.4:1
Comp low shock lobes 234/247, .665/.658" lift (1.82 ratio), 116+2
Stock ls7 heads w/ Ti intakes, Ferrea exhausts
4.150 .040" cometic gaskets
Johnson 2116SLR slow leakdown .093" travel
PAC 1207x .700" lift springs
TSP roller tip 1.82 rockers
Melling 10296 high volume/high pressure
Improved Racing Fbody pan trap door
Meziere EWP
ATI damper no underdrive
Tilton 246 twin disk organic clutch w/ sprung hub and strapped floaters
1 7/8" headers into dual 2.5" xpipe
Holley HP EFI with Flex Fuel
PS: the RPM is approximate - like the dyno sheets that show mph at the bottom with no torque curve. At 7500 rpm it displayed ~7300 rpm on the dyno sheet. At 2000 rpm it was within ~10-20rpm. Close enough haha. The torque values are reporting ~15 ft lb high because they're back calculated from the rpm value with a small percentage of error in it.
(https://i.imgur.com/aDvTMkR.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ac6ZIwb.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WNyRVU9.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gFsODYM.jpeg)
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KW79esR2imE
Here's the video screaming out to 7500
Feel free to troll on the rotary bros in the comments. Amazing this is still happening lol. I thought in 2025 we could be free from judgement and persecution LOL
My buddy Daniel Kuo, DK from Garage Life was nice enough to lend us his dyno. He's a firefighter going into paramedic training and a proam drifter with a shop on the side. Damn overachievers lol. If you're in socal and need dyno or tuning work I'd highly recommend.
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The corrected numbers for e85 make sense. Unless someone was running massive 14+ cr I've not seen e85 make more than 10-15 on an LS7. The chamber design is just too good.
Still rather surprised at the numbers. I was expecting around 570-580. I've not been on a hub dyno. Will be once I get this new intake sorted. Shainiac said I HAVE to do a side by side between the 90mm TB and my dual 82mm with crazy neck.
Minus the ticket, congrats on the achievement. Not many break 600 outside the trans axle Vette folks.
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The corrected numbers for e85 make sense. Unless someone was running massive 14+ cr I've not seen e85 make more than 10-15 on an LS7. The chamber design is just too good.
Still rather surprised at the numbers. I was expecting around 570-580. I've not been on a hub dyno. Will be once I get this new intake sorted. Shainiac said I HAVE to do a side by side between the 90mm TB and my dual 82mm with crazy neck.
Minus the ticket, congrats on the achievement. Not many break 600 outside the trans axle Vette folks.
You're telling me! I was super pessimistic going into the dyno compared to everyone else. I would've been shocked at 570-580 even. End of the day its a stock headed ls7 with some nice parts and a small cam lol. Never would've guessed ever that the number would start with a 6. Even in a vette, I've only seen 600whp out of small cammed engines with Mamo 265's and ported MSD, and I've only seen one or maybe two combos like that.
I could come up with a scenario where it should make 570whp, but didn't believe it possible with 2.5" exhaust and small cam.
The intake and cam working together to peak at 7000 rpm, which is also around where the stock heads at 259cc/~2.8 MCSA tune for best power I think is the key. These intake runners also have a huge taper which should increase velocity at high rpm and help continue to feed air even with the smaller cam duration and the unported heads. I'm surprised even with a 105mm tb I'm seeing some KPA drop through the dyno pull. It is really pulling in some air.
It is unimportant, but because its such an outlier result I would like to get it on a different dyno someday just for fun.
On an old C5Z I had converted to flexfuel using a Tahoe computer, I actually lost 5whp at peak, but gained ~12 ft lb down low even on a knock limited engine like the LS6. If the engine doesn't need more octane, I believe that Ethanol makes less power than gasoline. However, the cooling effects and having an excess of octane where you know it'll never spark knock is super nice. Throttle response is really good too. I had hoped for 10whp with this combo just because on pump gas the LS7 typically maxes out in the low 20's for timing, and I had a tiny compression bump up to 11.4:1. At 12:1 I think e85 would've shined a bit more, but I'm happy its not on the ragged edge with 91.
My buddy's dyno was an inertia drum, but he did not have the brake add-on like I hoped so my part throttle tuning didn't get any love. The more I drive it with learn turned on the worse it is getting at low speed lol I'm going to actually have to put some effort into street tuning it, or have someone remote tune it if I'm too lazy (or can't figure it out). I still have a bit of work to do from a dead stop, and below 2000 rpm.
I'd be stoked to see another dyno from your car, especially wiht the dual inlet. Super cool design! I'm hoping it is in the tune, but it is really tough to take off from a stop smoothly in my car right now. You lean your foot on the throttle and the RPM jumps up over 2000rpm. If you ease up on the gas while trying to creep off the line the rpm gets drug way down and then it starts bucking. Having a more progressive throttle at tip in would be super helpful.
When you dyno yours, and if you're on a dyno you can control steady state speeds, you should mess around with your throttle opening position and your fancy ECU to find best torque output at different RPM's. You may find that it'll make better midrange with a closed down throttle. I bet you could program a throttle position vs pedal TPS vs rpm table.
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Impressive numbers! I bet that thing is a riot on the street. How big was the ticket? lol
I'd bet money that your accel enrichment is off and that's throwing off your lower RPM fuel auto-tuning. If AE is whack, it'll make the engine run rich or lean, and the ECU can start pulling fuel from that portion of the map. The annoying thing about tuning AE is that your VE table needs to be pretty close to start lol. Bad AE tuning is also responsible for a lot of "dead spots" when making changes in throttle, and can become a closed loop if herky jerky driveability causes your foot to come off the pedal. All that is made worse by a giant throttle body, since you probably get all the air flow the engine needs for 2500rpm at maybe 30-40% TPS. One big perk of DBW is being able to add more resolution to the pedal and give you more finesse for low-throttle driveability.
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Well, the top of 3rd is 118 mph and I didn't start slowing down very much before he shot me lol. I was already getting on the brakes, and one he poked his wheel out from the driveway he was hiding in I stopped basically where he was parked.
You're exactly right I believe on the tip in issues. I took about 50% of the AE out of it already but was waiting for after the dyno tune to dial it in. I need to clear my learn table and lock it out in the tip in range and pull some more fuel out of it. Its funny, I assumed it was a lean hole while driving but it is just completely flooding it based on the O2 sensor.
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I've not decided for certain if I'm going to run the TB in parallel or staged. I'll do parallel initially for simplicity. Maybe I'll be able to get the tip in curve mild enough so it's not too jerky.
I had some parts 3d printed in aluminum and they were just shipped. Should look like a complete engine bay again by the end of the month.
What's your exact valvetrain setup again? On the stock intake mine was nosing over quite hard and I'm not certain if it was instability or restriction. I'm using ti intake, .080 3/8 rods, 430 open prongs and trunioned stock rockers with Johnson linkbar lifters(hydraulic).
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I'm not familiar with Holley, but Maxx has settings to basically lock out the closed-loop fueling for a selectable amount of time after an AE or fuel/spark cut event. This prevents closed-loop from trying to fix AFR issues that aren't directly caused from the VE table. Might be something to look into. AE is a pain. I find it easiest to adjust in high gear, since you're not getting big rises in RPM when you make big throttle changes. AE is usually scaled by %TPS/s rate of change. So the faster you make changes in throttle position, the higher up the Y-axis you'll be on the AE table. You can try doing it with logs, but it's definitely easier with a friend in the passenger seat who is at least familiar with the software. You want to make the throttle change and then hold for at least a couple seconds so that the negative %TPS/s of lifting doesn't also affect your fueling. IMO, tuning AE is one of the more annoying parts of getting good driveability, but also one of the most important.
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What's your exact valvetrain setup again? On the stock intake mine was nosing over quite hard and I'm not certain if it was instability or restriction. I'm using ti intake, .080 3/8 rods, 430 open prongs and trunioned stock rockers with Johnson linkbar lifters(hydraulic).
Here's the valvetrain specs. BTW - we have two engines now with melling pumps where the oil pressure is dropping at high rpm. This ls7, and our ls3 stroker for our drag car. It is unsettling for sure, but it is repeatable every time and I've had no other issues with it. Oil pressure peaks at 6000 rpm around 66psi, and falls off linearly ~6psi by 7400. I just can't figure out why Melling pumps would exhibit this behavior. The stock pump never did it. I believe it is the 10296 pump in both engines.
Ti intakes, stainless exhausts
Johnson 2116SLR slow leakdown .093" travel
PAC 1207x .700" lift springs
TSP roller tip 1.82 rockers
Manton 3/8" x .095 wall pushrods
(https://i.imgur.com/os3YLw1.jpeg)
I'm not familiar with Holley, but Maxx has settings to basically lock out the closed-loop fueling for a selectable amount of time after an AE or fuel/spark cut event. This prevents closed-loop from trying to fix AFR issues that aren't directly caused from the VE table. Might be something to look into. AE is a pain. I find it easiest to adjust in high gear, since you're not getting big rises in RPM when you make big throttle changes. AE is usually scaled by %TPS/s rate of change. So the faster you make changes in throttle position, the higher up the Y-axis you'll be on the AE table. You can try doing it with logs, but it's definitely easier with a friend in the passenger seat who is at least familiar with the software. You want to make the throttle change and then hold for at least a couple seconds so that the negative %TPS/s of lifting doesn't also affect your fueling. IMO, tuning AE is one of the more annoying parts of getting good driveability, but also one of the most important.
The Holley is exactly the same. I've seen where you just start in neutral and kick the throttle slowly a few times and make tweaks until the responsiveness is how you like. Then do some faster and larger throttle movements. It seems like a crappy thing to try and do lol its not a very repeatable process.
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Doing AE in neutral is no good IMO. You sweep through the RPMs way, way too fast. High gear allows you to stay in roughly the same RPM column of the AE map so you can dial in each column at each %TPS/s. I've never had much luck tuning it in neutral. a hub dyno with RPM/speed hold is ideal, but the lower driveability RPMs of the AE map can be hit in 5/6th on the highway.
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Doing AE in neutral is no good IMO. You sweep through the RPMs way, way too fast. High gear allows you to stay in roughly the same RPM column of the AE map so you can dial in each column at each %TPS/s. I've never had much luck tuning it in neutral. a hub dyno with RPM/speed hold is ideal, but the lower driveability RPMs of the AE map can be hit in 5/6th on the highway.
That's good advice. Driving on the freeway the car FEELS great. If the car took off from a stop properly I'd call the tune "done" but I'm sure I can improve.
For AE, what's the ideal - do you want AFR to stay as close to target AFR as possible, or do you want to actually dip to the rich side on transients?
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I try to keep it on-target. That way closed loop fueling isn't trying to chase it's tail. Changes in TPS usually mean changes in MAP, which also probably means you're lambda target has changed too. So keep that in mind.
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My valvetrain is almost exactly the same but I'm running a lighter spring. It's a .660 lift with 430lb open iirc. May give the 1207x a try. Never mind, looks like the 1207x is what I'm already running. Ha
I had the 296 and moved to a 295. Still seem to suck the pan dry. For you it sounds like the pressure valve is opening. Give the copo spring a try.
I try to keep AE closet to target afr but have CL 02 off during fast rpmdot.
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My valvetrain is almost exactly the same but I'm running a lighter spring. It's a .660 lift with 430lb open iirc. May give the 1207x a try. Never mind, looks like the 1207x is what I'm already running. Ha
I had the 296 and moved to a 295. Still seem to suck the pan dry. For you it sounds like the pressure valve is opening. Give the copo spring a try.
I try to keep AE closet to target afr but have CL 02 off during fast rpmdot.
Yea you're definitely not having valve float then. I'm sure the stock intake was just choking it off between the longer runners and the smaller throttle body. With a 105mm tb I'm still seeing some KPA loss at high rpm.
So long as the oil pressure is repeatable I don't mind the pressure values where they're at. It does sound like it is bypassing, which is probably not a great thing it'll be heating up the oil and aerating it. I'll have to keep an eye on it when I start doing some longer sessions. The higher volume pump may not have been the move.
Someday I'll figure out a genius idea how to package a drysump tank lol.
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You figure out the tank. I have the pan and pump sorted. Ha
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Well I have been having the absolute best time with the car lmao. Only a couple small issues have popped up, but otherwise it has been incredible. It is so much damn fun. It is far and away the most ridiculous thing I've ever driven.
I have the car fully broken in. The clutch and trans are over 500 miles, and the ring and pinion is long broken in. Gave it a fluid flush and it is ready for some hard miles. First main issue that popped up is the clutch was not fully disengaging. I bled the clutch extremely well with a pressure bleeder for hours. It drove great for a couple drives, and but then it refused to go into gear when cold. I'm talking like while rolling, while stopped, any gear for any reason it might just prevent you from shifting lol. It was getting air back into it somehow, or the master cylinder seal was bad. With a 3/4" master size I do also think it was undersized even in perfect conditions, so I swapped it to a 13/16 master and it has been perfect ever since.
Second issue is after driving the car for 500 miles without charging, and after driving it 45 minutes, the car refused to start again and was cranking slow. The Holley is super sensitive to cranking voltage. I need to fix this or I'll get stranded somewhere. You can't jump a Holley ECU or you risk bricking it, and my battery can't be fast charged it charges at 3 amps maximum lol. Anyways, my alternator requires a PWM signal to get more than 13.7 volts out of it. My battery is not getting sufficiently charged. I can do this from the Holley, I just didn't route a wire for it initially and got lazy thinking it would be fine.
Currently, I have put at least 3 tanks of gas through it. Gas mileage is REALLY bad on E85 hahaha. I haven't recorded it, but it goes through gas obscenely fast. I started with an ~E50 blend from the dyno, and I'm up to E76 now putting only E85 in it. The Radium surge tank works perfectly. I have twin fuel pumps to run when the E content is high. I've also been ripping on it and throwing the car around a bit and the fuel system has not burped once. I'm down to just over empty on my gas gauge and it hasn't flinched. It used to cut out punching it in 2nd in a straight line.
With this chilly weather, E85, and the electric water pump the temps are staying so cold. I'm happy to see the oil temp doesn't get really any higher than 200 while driving normally, even in traffic or a lot of miles. When I beat on it the temps climb above 210 and the cooler thermostat opens and the temps have been dropping immediately. I want to get it up in the canyons or on a track soon and see how the cooling does. I have read concerns about the EWP for high rpm driving, and I want to see how my oil cooler does under heavy load with the parallel mounting and chin spoiler.
(https://i.imgur.com/y6wlhwj.jpeg)
I still need to get an alignment, but I got some new tires! I'm really bummed about it, but my 275/35/18 Maxxis RC-1 slicks were simply too big. I'd rub front and back all over the place. They're just way too tall. I also was feeling like the car had really bad traction, and despite having barely any miles on them, they were made in 2019. I thought maybe they were getting old.
I was a little stressed about it, but I took the gamble on getting some 285/30/18 Yokohama AD09's for my 9.5" wide wheel. I was worried about potential bulge, but they fit fantastic and the steering sharpness is really great. With the bumpsteer tweaks I did on the down-time the steering feels dead smooth. Even with a 285 up front the car isn't tramlining at all. I have some wheel spacers showing up tomorrow to dial in the fitment :D
:bacon: :bacon:
(https://i.imgur.com/0kIoROm.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/97VvuJP.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YKhtYfS.jpeg)
Performance wise, I've been a little hot and cold with them literally. Mostly cold, and then I finally get some heat in them and they blow my mind. It has been oddly chilly in Socal, so I think when it warms up a bit I'll have better luck. I'm learning what they need. Big educational moment, I punched it in third from 65 mph and it did a rolling burnout as long as my foot was in it. Hauling ass, but getting tossed around a bit too. Not what I was expecting nor wanting to do on the freeway. It was badass, but way too sketch. Would do it again in a heartbeat somewhere else hahaha.
I've been able to give some of my buddy's a ride, and each one I'm getting to hoon it a little bit harder. Most who have ridden in the car have been in a fast car before, let alone basically a race car. There's a little industrial cul de sac with a 90 degree turn and I was able to do a 1st gear drifted u-turn into frying 2nd gear, huck it through the corner and plant the throttle out to 7500 rpm in 2nd. That got the tires warm enough they grip sooooo hard. I need a track day to find the limits of this thing in a safe place.
My friend who has been in a few fast cars I took out 3rd quarter yesterday during the game. We live on a hilly road with some gentle curves and quite a bit of elevation change. We were bombing up and down the hill while everyone was watching the game, and I was basically power sliding 2nd gear just staying in my lane going around this bend. Then the tires heat up enough it grips 2nd and it seriously hauls ass. Before then you gotta be really timid and basically roll into it until it spins and just hold the throttle there or feather it a bit.
Some shots from my friend before our ride.
(https://i.imgur.com/TxZSogu.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l7v3Wp5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Scx4BcZ.jpeg)
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Oh yea I split my lip putting the car up on ramps at my dad's place to change the fluids :( The new tires are an inch shorter. Saddddd. At least it is a cheap FRP lip from Shine I can always get another, or I have a friend in composites who can fix it.
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So most of my driving has been break-in miles, but I have done a few fun things, and productive things.
First, I got a Dragy and I couldn't even wait until I had the break-in miles done or my new tires on it to try it out lol. I really, really wanted to see some 60-130 numbers to back-up the dyno sheet haha. Well, where I live I just simply can't find a good road to do it, and I'm sketched out about :police: :police: :police:. I did give it one shot, and it was far from ideal. It was very cold so I started in 3rd gear, it was uphill, it was at 1000 feet physical altitude, and I shifted slow because the trans wasn't broken in yet lol. I know this has a long, long way to go before it proves anything, but for a starting point I'm not upset. A stock C6Z as best I can find is about an 8.5. I really want to see the car at a 6.5 or faster. With this tire size I will need two shifts to hit 130 so it'll never be "competitive." With a 26" tall drag tire I think I could push a 5.x. All the really fast C6Z guys are raising the rev limiter super high to hit it in 3rd.
(https://i.imgur.com/YezKzvQ.png)
Since I have fully broken in the trans now, I wasted no time turning on my no lift shift. When you push the clutch it turns on a 5800 rev limiter. So you can wring this thing out to 7500 rpm, stab the clutch with your foot on the floor, bang gear and drop the clutch out, and you don't even feel the gear change. It is so addicting. I'm using it every chance I get lol. :drive:
Now, onto next topic which is stopping. From 130 it was sketchy sketchy sketchy slowing down. I designed a brake kit for this car during covid, and then I blew the engine. If anyone remembers, I worked with Stoptech back ages ago, maybe 10 years ago I did that group buy. Well, I got to learn a lot from Stoptech about piston sizes, hydraulic brake balance and wheel torque output balance. I did a ton of searching around for some OEM calipers I could repurpose which is extremely hard for the FD because the piston sizes are tiny tiny, and you need to upgrade the rear to keep the braking force anywhere near balanced. The brake bias stock is already too far forward biased.
The idea clicked to look at a Cayman since it was mid-engine and lightweight I figured they could be a close match. I think I got what I wanted, and have a package put together that will shift the brake force 3% rearward, and increase the hydraulic volume moved by about 35% combined front and rear. The Cayman S has a 1" master, and I have the 1" 929 master in my car. My brake pedal today is extremely short which is nice, but at high speed it does not inspire confidence with how much leg effort you need to put in. With larger piston sizes the pedal effort will be reduced. The Cayman has much larger piston volume in the rear than the FD, but the rotor is 1 inch smaller diameter keeping the torque outputs closely balanced.
I'm so excited for these. Girodisc is cutting me some custom rotor hats right now to adapt their 350x34 and 325x24 Cayman S rotors onto my car. This has been a long project with some high dollar gambling, a lot of research, and some unique problem solving lol. I think the payoff will be huge. It did not turn out to be a budget option in the slightest. I wish I had just bought the 4 wheel brake kit from Stoptech during the group buy but I was broke back then lmao.
(https://i.imgur.com/zPJStU5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FjMXVID.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FGEoZLP.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IB9vann.jpeg)
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The other day I finally logged a cold start and worked on slow speed drivability and was lucky enough to improve it a ton. It is all tweaking in the Accel Enrichment, fuel table, and spark table. The idle has always fortunately been rock solid and never has tried to stall a single time. It has worked perfectly from the very first adjustment and I am shocked. The low speed driving and taking off from a stop has been horrible. Driving after the cold start was almost impossible for the first ~60 seconds. I fixed that luckily by adjusting the start-up enrichment.
For the take-off issues and low speed bucking I tried adding timing in a region to prevent a bog as I would bring the revs up to 1500, it would drop to 600, and then spike back to 2000 and oscillate like that all while you're trying to let the clutch out and take off. I learned that this engine and camshaft really wants very little timing in light load. I took 20 degrees out in some areas, and added some fuel, and it smoothed out about 85% and has made it easy to take-off from a stop. The car is perfectly livable like this, but parking lots are still extremely tough to navigate. The car really doesn't want to be going any less than 15 mph, so you're working the clutch a ton. I think some of that is just a huge engine in a little car problem.
So, logically, after talking about how scary fast it is lol the other effort going on right now is how to make it even faster :D
This one I'm really optimistic about. I posted in Kinger's thread saying I might want to utilize some traction control since I have the Holley in my car. If it was going to be $2500 like I had heard, I would have to weigh the option against swapping ECU's to something more modern. Luckily, I found a couple awesome things - I found a $1000 unit open box new for $480 shipped from a guy who swapped ECU's before using it. I also learned that I can use my transmission 17 pulse per rev VSS sensor for the TCS input. Also, Davis Technologies only utilizes a driveshaft speed sensor and does not require a front wheel speed sensor input. So, I will be into this very affordably, and will have a highly desirable TCS box for a cheap enough price I can sell if it doesn't work.
(https://i.imgur.com/UqBAG5Y.jpeg)
It is only a couple inches long, and a few wires to hook-up. I will just need to hook an activation switch, 12V power and a ground to it, and splice into my VSS input already going into the Holley.
If I wind up wanting more resolution on the reluctor wheel, there's a 40 tooth reluctor I could swap in place of the 17 tooth.
This thing works by monitoring driveshaft acceleration rate and if it goes above a threshold it will pull timing. It can update timing in realtime like 1000 times a second and can pull up to 25 degrees. Really curious to see how it does. It will have a few knobs to turn to dial in the sensitivity and how much authority it has. In reality, I don't think it needs much intervention. It just needs something to stop it from completely lighting up the tire, and stopping slips that could turn into big powerslides leaving corners. If it is really incredible maybe it would allow me to launch in first gear. We'll see about that one.
And now lastly, I think lol, I got a Nardi steering wheel coming for it. My factory wheel is hitting my Holley screen and scratching it up. It was the final push I needed to pull the trigger on something I've wanted for a long time. I love my Tillet seat but it is not my preferred seating position. It is very laid back and I want the wheel brought closer to me. This is also smaller diameter and will make the steering feel faster. I do also want to look at my seat mount and see if I can tilt it forward without making the bottom feel awkward. It just has a lot of recline molded into it.
(https://i.imgur.com/kZ4MyY3.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FuIsF2b.jpeg)
So it has been a super busy and eventful time with the car. Having a ton of fun with it again. Every single drive is an extreme test of willpower and patience. I cannot wait to get some video in a place where I can open it up and share it with everyone.
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I am interested in that brake upgrade. Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers. Who made the brackets? or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets? What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.
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Nice score on the Davis box. My friend has a nationally-competitive no-prep drag car and has the Davis VPS and all the bells and whistles. His car is obviously extremely focused, but it works great for him. The VPS has the 6-axis accelerometer and gyro and can pull power for yaw and all sorts of stuff. But IIRC, he's still using the driveshaft curve as his main tuning method for track stuff. It's a ~1500whp+ Malibu running low 5s/high 4s in the 1/8th on unprepped surfaces with a 28x10.5 bias ply lol.
I think being an auto with much longer 1st gear makes it easier to reign in power with timing alone, though.
I'm using MaxxECU's TC on my car, making ~low 600s whp. With the short DCT gearing and 18" wheels, I'm usually not able to reign in wheel spin with timing alone in 1st/2nd gear and have to rely on random spark cut. That could be a me-problem, but I'm already pulling as much boost out as I can in those gears (2psi wastegate pressure, probably 500whp), and partially closing throttle with the DBW. But my tires are not exactly fresh and the weather in New England ain't exactly Socal lol.
That brake project looks great. I'm currently trying to design an OEM caliper/rotor upgrade for my FC and had the same issue with everything having too large of piston area. What're the Porsche piston sizes? I'm surprised they have 34mm rotors, that's pretty thick for a smallish OD factory rotor.
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So glad you are enjoying the car again! Making the FD great again is my goal with my project. I also was extremely annoyed with under 15 mph parking lot clutch work and hence my 8HP swap, hoping it can handle slow speeds when I am creeping around a parking lot to me that is important, I hate race car things on my street car yet I want race car speed and performance on the street LOL
For that price the definitely worth to play with the davis now. This makes me excited for my car!
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I am interested in that brake upgrade. Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers. Who made the brackets? or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets? What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.
I do have all of it yea, but I want to make sure that the kit works out performance wise before I send anyone else down this path. I haven't cut brackets yet, still in plastic. Girodisc is making me rotor hats, but you could have a shop do it for much less money. The rotor rings themselves are $850 front and $750 rear - so I bet you can imagine a set with custom hats from them is no less than double that. Overall this worked out to be way way more money than expected, but it became more of a passion project and sunk cost fallacy lol. The calipers were about $1000 for the set of four, and they all seem to be in great shape. Once the rotors arrive I'll do a final fit check and tweaks to the bracket dimensions and get them cut in metal, and then will need to sort out a custom brake line - but it is nearly there.
It also eliminates the e-brake. I'm hopeful there will be a way to add an auxiliary parking brake caliper, but still TBD.
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Nice score on the Davis box. My friend has a nationally-competitive no-prep drag car and has the Davis VPS and all the bells and whistles. His car is obviously extremely focused, but it works great for him. The VPS has the 6-axis accelerometer and gyro and can pull power for yaw and all sorts of stuff. But IIRC, he's still using the driveshaft curve as his main tuning method for track stuff. It's a ~1500whp+ Malibu running low 5s/high 4s in the 1/8th on unprepped surfaces with a 28x10.5 bias ply lol.
I think being an auto with much longer 1st gear makes it easier to reign in power with timing alone, though.
I'm using MaxxECU's TC on my car, making ~low 600s whp. With the short DCT gearing and 18" wheels, I'm usually not able to reign in wheel spin with timing alone in 1st/2nd gear and have to rely on random spark cut. That could be a me-problem, but I'm already pulling as much boost out as I can in those gears (2psi wastegate pressure, probably 500whp), and partially closing throttle with the DBW. But my tires are not exactly fresh and the weather in New England ain't exactly Socal lol.
That brake project looks great. I'm currently trying to design an OEM caliper/rotor upgrade for my FC and had the same issue with everything having too large of piston area. What're the Porsche piston sizes? I'm surprised they have 34mm rotors, that's pretty thick for a smallish OD factory rotor.
Yea the Davis TC systems are incredible! I watch a lot of noprep racing on youtube and know a couple guys that do it. It is on my bucket list of drag racing adventures I want to try with my dad. It will require us getting another car though, and we just don't have space for it. We kick around the idea of downsizing our bracket racing operation, and if that happens I could see getting a noprep grudge car just to have fun with. To be competitive you really gotta be prepared to throw some money at it though.
This is their most basic TC-3, but can be upgraded to do self learning and also have cylinder cut. As is, it will only retard timing.
In my studying, I read that turbo cars can be tricky to control with just timing alone because at some point retarding the timing just builds more heat, which makes more boost and it becomes an unwinnable situation. I'm not sure if it'll be enough to allow me to launch in first, but I'm hopeful that it'll control things from basically like...autoX speeds and higher in 2nd gear lol. I'll add a toggle switch to my digital dash for when you want to fry some tires. I do wish I could control the TC settings within my digital dash, but it is only accessible via a laptop or their own remote display for tuning.
The TC-3 is only looking at driveshaft speed and comparing acceleration rate to an allowable limit. The TC-3 is good enough to get you down a road, but the high end stuff is using the "perfect pass" method where you actually provide a driveshaft curve from transbrake release that the car should follow. Not something that works outside of a standing start in a controlled environment, but it is a truly incredible system what they're able to do with these no-prep machines.
I've seen your work on the mustang shocks!! I'm super interested in your work. Racingbrake website is a fantastic reference.
The calipers I'm using are 38/38 mm pistons front and 28/30 rear. The porsche rotors stock are an inch smaller front and rear. Girodisc offers larger rotors and a caliper spacer for those guys. 350x34 and 325x24 are physically the largest rotors that will fit in the caliper body without hitting. It gets super close.
https://racingbrake.com/cayman-boxster-986-987-981-982-718/
Here are my bias calculations. I wasn't supposed to share this spreadsheet back in the day from Stoptech :P I am still using the OEM prop valve and I'm hopeful that it will work with this setup as well, but I may need to add-in an adjustable proportioning valve.
(https://i.imgur.com/DUsVxD7.png)
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So glad you are enjoying the car again! Making the FD great again is my goal with my project. I also was extremely annoyed with under 15 mph parking lot clutch work and hence my 8HP swap, hoping it can handle slow speeds when I am creeping around a parking lot to me that is important, I hate race car things on my street car yet I want race car speed and performance on the street LOL
For that price the definitely worth to play with the davis now. This makes me excited for my car!
Thanks man! You should definitely be excited. It is a whole different level of insanity. I also am really happy with the Tilton, not that you care anymore ;) I honestly can't imagine this thing with any more power. Maybe the traction control will tame it and then I start looking into that 800whp package next hahaha
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Awesome update!!
Curious to see how well the traction control can be dialed in.
I think it will start to feel slow after like 2,000 miles hahaha then you can get the next recipe ready!
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Awesome update!!
Curious to see how well the traction control can be dialed in.
I think it will start to feel slow after like 2,000 miles hahaha then you can get the next recipe ready!
I'm thinking as soon as it warms up, engine making a bit less power from higher DA and the tires are grippy it'll feel slow again hahaha. How much power do you have dialed in when you are running around in the canyons?
If the traction control works out maybe I actually will be able to shove the solid roller engine in this thing someday and go for that 200mph standing mile run :D I also planned to sell my old Magnum, but maybe I will accidentally send it off for face plating instead hahaha. Short term I want to get some track days and autox events done with this combo I think there's plenty of meat on the bone to enjoy it like this for a while. Not to mention if I track it and start catching the aero bug...
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Thank you blake for continuing to host my diary hahaha
5/12 mm spacers went on today. Man it looks nice. Had to go for the gas station lighting.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gstbome.jpeg)
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I have the stoptech st-40 with a 330mm disc and stock in the back. Both with EBC blue NDC pads. I did a bunch of bias calculations and the setup is just right. Even going to an 99 spec rz setup would move it too much rear l. I'm on a 285 square setup. The mk60 abs says when I slam on the brakes the intervention is well balanced.
I did one 60-140 in Texas when the car was still a t-56, stock intake, and slightly small cam and was not rolling through 60. I floored it at about 55mph so not ideal. Was a 6.7. I'd imagine now the car is properly into the high 5s. Bigger cam, DCT, MSD and some crazy ass intake I've yet to finish.....
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I am interested in that brake upgrade. Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers. Who made the brackets? or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets? What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.
I do have all of it yea, but I want to make sure that the kit works out performance wise before I send anyone else down this path. I haven't cut brackets yet, still in plastic. Girodisc is making me rotor hats, but you could have a shop do it for much less money. The rotor rings themselves are $850 front and $750 rear - so I bet you can imagine a set with custom hats from them is no less than double that. Overall this worked out to be way way more money than expected, but it became more of a passion project and sunk cost fallacy lol. The calipers were about $1000 for the set of four, and they all seem to be in great shape. Once the rotors arrive I'll do a final fit check and tweaks to the bracket dimensions and get them cut in metal, and then will need to sort out a custom brake line - but it is nearly there.
It also eliminates the e-brake. I'm hopeful there will be a way to add an auxiliary parking brake caliper, but still TBD.
Thanks for the info. I am interested to see how it turns out. What size rotors are you going with? I found a set of calipers for like $700. I could get the brackets made with a drawing/model. Or just a sketch. I can make models/drawings if you need help.
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Yea the Davis TC systems are incredible! I watch a lot of noprep racing on youtube and know a couple guys that do it. It is on my bucket list of drag racing adventures I want to try with my dad. It will require us getting another car though, and we just don't have space for it. We kick around the idea of downsizing our bracket racing operation, and if that happens I could see getting a noprep grudge car just to have fun with. To be competitive you really gotta be prepared to throw some money at it though.
This is their most basic TC-3, but can be upgraded to do self learning and also have cylinder cut. As is, it will only retard timing.
In my studying, I read that turbo cars can be tricky to control with just timing alone because at some point retarding the timing just builds more heat, which makes more boost and it becomes an unwinnable situation. I'm not sure if it'll be enough to allow me to launch in first, but I'm hopeful that it'll control things from basically like...autoX speeds and higher in 2nd gear lol. I'll add a toggle switch to my digital dash for when you want to fry some tires. I do wish I could control the TC settings within my digital dash, but it is only accessible via a laptop or their own remote display for tuning.
The TC-3 is only looking at driveshaft speed and comparing acceleration rate to an allowable limit. The TC-3 is good enough to get you down a road, but the high end stuff is using the "perfect pass" method where you actually provide a driveshaft curve from transbrake release that the car should follow. Not something that works outside of a standing start in a controlled environment, but it is a truly incredible system what they're able to do with these no-prep machines.
I've seen your work on the mustang shocks!! I'm super interested in your work. Racingbrake website is a fantastic reference.
The calipers I'm using are 38/38 mm pistons front and 28/30 rear. The porsche rotors stock are an inch smaller front and rear. Girodisc offers larger rotors and a caliper spacer for those guys. 350x34 and 325x24 are physically the largest rotors that will fit in the caliper body without hitting. It gets super close.
https://racingbrake.com/cayman-boxster-986-987-981-982-718/
Here are my bias calculations. I wasn't supposed to share this spreadsheet back in the day from Stoptech :P I am still using the OEM prop valve and I'm hopeful that it will work with this setup as well, but I may need to add-in an adjustable proportioning valve.
(https://i.imgur.com/DUsVxD7.png)
I’m not sure how useful the driveshaft curve-only TC will be for anything other than straight-line. For AutoX/canyon stuff, your traction vs driveshaft curve won’t be the same when cornering since the tires are doing two things at once. I think that’s where differential speed is better.
Not saying it *won’t* work, just not sure how well.
Thanks for sharing your brake bias calc. I have a massive spreadsheet of different OEM rotor dimensions and caliper piston areas, but hadn’t factored in the effective radius of a larger/smaller rotor with different calipers.
Out of curiosity, why do you have the OEM caliper listed as 2 piston, opposed? IIRC, FDs have a similar single piston sliding caliper like the FC? I’m stuck trying to find rear calipers with integrated E-brake, which limits you to basically sliding calipers or dedicated secondary parking calipers.
I think Blake is using electric parking calipers on his Mustang, which is a cool idea. My PDM has spare H-bridge outputs I could use for that in the future. The DCT doesn’t have a working Park gear, so I have to have an e-brake.
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I am interested in that brake upgrade. Would love to have a little better breaking and nicer looking callipers. Who made the brackets? or do you have a drawing/model of the brackets? What rotors are you using? I'm assuming I can get a set of hats made.
I do have all of it yea, but I want to make sure that the kit works out performance wise before I send anyone else down this path. I haven't cut brackets yet, still in plastic. Girodisc is making me rotor hats, but you could have a shop do it for much less money. The rotor rings themselves are $850 front and $750 rear - so I bet you can imagine a set with custom hats from them is no less than double that. Overall this worked out to be way way more money than expected, but it became more of a passion project and sunk cost fallacy lol. The calipers were about $1000 for the set of four, and they all seem to be in great shape. Once the rotors arrive I'll do a final fit check and tweaks to the bracket dimensions and get them cut in metal, and then will need to sort out a custom brake line - but it is nearly there.
It also eliminates the e-brake. I'm hopeful there will be a way to add an auxiliary parking brake caliper, but still TBD.
Thanks for the info. I am interested to see how it turns out. What size rotors are you going with? I found a set of calipers for like $700. I could get the brackets made with a drawing/model. Or just a sketch. I can make models/drawings if you need help.
350x34 is what Girodisc offers. The stock rotor on the Cayman is a 330x32. The brake bias would be rekt if you only did a front upgrade. It would put it way too far forward. Appreciate the offer to help! I visited Joel over Christmastime in Hawaii and Ronin might have some interest if the performance turns out to be an improvement. $700 is about what I paid too about 4 years ago.
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yeah i wouldnt want to do just the fronts. I'm guessing the 718 cayman S has an electric parking break. Adding a cable parking break could prove to be tricky. I wonder if those Asian BBK companies like PB or CIKA would sell just the parking break.
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I have the stoptech st-40 with a 330mm disc and stock in the back. Both with EBC blue NDC pads. I did a bunch of bias calculations and the setup is just right. Even going to an 99 spec rz setup would move it too much rear l. I'm on a 285 square setup. The mk60 abs says when I slam on the brakes the intervention is well balanced.
I did one 60-140 in Texas when the car was still a t-56, stock intake, and slightly small cam and was not rolling through 60. I floored it at about 55mph so not ideal. Was a 6.7. I'd imagine now the car is properly into the high 5s. Bigger cam, DCT, MSD and some crazy ass intake I've yet to finish.....
Stoptech does a fantastic job at maintaining balance with front only upgrades. It honestly is such a straight forward concept that I don’t understand why the other brands seemingly don’t even make an effort at it.
6.7 is quick already. The DCT probably cuts out a half second on its own compared to two shifts! Will be excited to try again if I can ever find a good space to do it safely.
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I’m not sure how useful the driveshaft curve-only TC will be for anything other than straight-line. For AutoX/canyon stuff, your traction vs driveshaft curve won’t be the same when cornering since the tires are doing two things at once. I think that’s where differential speed is better.
Not saying it *won’t* work, just not sure how well.
Thanks for sharing your brake bias calc. I have a massive spreadsheet of different OEM rotor dimensions and caliper piston areas, but hadn’t factored in the effective radius of a larger/smaller rotor with different calipers.
Out of curiosity, why do you have the OEM caliper listed as 2 piston, opposed? IIRC, FDs have a similar single piston sliding caliper like the FC? I’m stuck trying to find rear calipers with integrated E-brake, which limits you to basically sliding calipers or dedicated secondary parking calipers.
I think Blake is using electric parking calipers on his Mustang, which is a cool idea. My PDM has spare H-bridge outputs I could use for that in the future. The DCT doesn’t have a working Park gear, so I have to have an e-brake.
Yea curious to see how the TCS works out. They claim it does great on the street and road course. They sell them into dirt and asphalt oval cars too.
The FD is a 4 piston front opposed caliper and a sliding caliper single piston rear.
The pad height impacts your brake torque quite a bit too since a taller pad effectively reduces your moment arm.
Wilwood is selling electric parking brakes now. I'd probably try to adapt the factory cable to a traditional style parking brake.
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yeah i wouldnt want to do just the fronts. I'm guessing the 718 cayman S has an electric parking break. Adding a cable parking break could prove to be tricky. I wonder if those Asian BBK companies like PB or CIKA would sell just the parking break.
The Porsche is a shoe in hat style. No room for that on the FD sadly.
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Most of the calcs I've found only use one side of the caliper so you don't have to mess with a mismatch when the car doesn't have dual sided calipers all the way around.
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Most of the calcs I've found only use one side of the caliper so you don't have to mess with a mismatch when the car doesn't have dual sided calipers all the way around.
That’s the correct way to do it when comparing sliding to opposing piston calipers yes.
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I threw the TCS on and enabled it in the Holley and it does not yet seem to be working haha. I wrapped up the wiring late in the day and only had a couple minutes to try and get it working in software. Haven't had a chance or the mental fortitude to dig into it yet in case this turns into a huge waste of time haha.
My mobile guy did a quick detail on the car, and it has since rained, but it was very pretty :yay:
I am in loveeeee with my new Nardi wheel. Went for the special black anodize w/ black stitch. The smaller diameter is actually pretty noticeable in the steering effort. The biggest benefit to me is I can run my seat one click back now and it is way more comfortable on the pedals. The Tillet seat lays back quite far which puts your legs quite a bit ahead of your arms lol. The factory wheel was also hitting my holley dash and it actually made some permanent scuff marks on the housing and put a mark on the screen itself. Didn't notice that until it was too late.
And my Girodisc rotors shipped today! Been in a holding pattern while they were getting made the last month or so. When the rotors arrive I'll test fit them again with a fresh set of printed brackets from my buddy. I'm hopeful these are the final versions, and I've made them compatible with the stock Porsche caliper bolts - very simple hardware solutions.
Included a couple pictures of what these things are going to look like. I'm getting giddy. I can't believe those will be behind my wheels.
(https://i.imgur.com/smAcf2S.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bz58RVX.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NfQaePN.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KBahoei.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gxROhmC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BQqszmz.jpeg)