NoRotors.com - RX7 Engine Swap Forum
Technical Information => Build Threads => Topic started by: digitalsolo on July 06, 2021, 12:17:05 PM
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Hey guys,
I know a person or two has experience with AM stuff. I’m looking at picking up a V8 Vantage (4.3L). I’d drive it for a bit and then maybe consider an LS3 or LSA in it.
They don’t seem to scary, ownership cost wise, for someone who can do all their own labor and has a lift.
Anyone have any good/bad on them?
Necro edit: Moved this to Build Threads because I can't leave anything the hell alone. Let's go boys (and girls).
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Friend of a friend who flips cars bought one and almost immediately had a rod knock and he lost his ass, but I guess if you're planning on swapping it later then you can roll those dice lol.
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LOL, well I suppose the good news is if I did get a rod knock, I have the tools to pull the engine and rebuild it, etc. Hopefully that's not in my future. :D
I've done a lot of research on them, and decided that buying a nice one and driving it for a few years should, in theory, be pretty cost neutral. I think the market on them might tick up a little, but we'll see. With that in mind, I found one with a super-desirable combo and all the maintenance done for a fair price, and made an offer. Just waiting on sorting the finances but I don't expect any issues there. If it all goes through, I'm planning (under threat of death from my wife) to leave it the heck alone for a while. Of course, if something goes super wrong, I'll go full Blake on it, but I suppose just driving it should be plenty entertaining for now, hah!
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If it all goes through, I'm planning (under threat of death from my wife) to leave it the heck alone for a while.
Who wants to start a "When will Blake fuck with it" pool?
My guess is 3 months...
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I think the wife is strong on this one. I'm going for 7 months.
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Ya’ll are hilarious.
Also I’m betting 12 months.
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I think Wife is smarter then that, she knows what she got..I predict it wont make it through the winter untouched :D
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Here is my math behind it. First month if ownership, Blake enjoys the car but starts researching mods and dreaming about it. Next two months are spent dropping not so subtle hints to his wife. After two months, she is sick of hearing about it and says, “fine, do what you want”. :grin:
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There was a similar post on Vantages a few months back. I picked one up about 3 years ago with rod knock (after some research, it seems to be a common issue that no one seems to notice or talk about) for a great price. It's been on the back burner until recently. While I was waiting to investigate the carnage, I came across a cheap, spare, engine that I am currently swapping. Long term plans would likely be an LS/LT (have a couple other engines in mind as well) but I want to see if I like the platform before I go off the deep end. A lift would make ownership much easier but I'm getting by with a QuickJack with the elevation limitations in my garage.
Overall, I'm pretty impressed with what I've seen in terms of build quality and chassis engineering as I tear the car apart and think it's something I'll probably invest more time/money into than the FD, long term. My biggest gripe is the, expected, Aston tax on everything. Hard to justify $3500 - 4000, single-plate, clutches (parts alone) that last as little as 15-20k miles and it's the primary driver to thinking about alternative drivetrain options, long term.
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Yeah, that was me in my Mustang build thread probably. My original plan was roller and LS swap, but for now I’m going to do the stock setup for a few years at least then either LS or Tesla swap. :)
The clutch interests me. There is a local shop that is great at rebuilding clutches, I’m trying to understand why a resurface of the flywheel/PP and refriction of the disc wouldn’t be viable. I’m sure Aston didn’t use anything magic there and that process is pretty cheap. I could probably have a flywheel with a replaceable friction surface and an easy to find PP setup designed/machined for what they charge if I need to.
I do have a lift, so that should make the servicing of things like that easier.
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Oh, and I pick up the car next weekend.
2007 V8 Vantage
Black/black with red stitching
6 speed manual
Has the Aston performance pack, so improved intake manifold and filters. It also has an aftermarket back box on the exhaust. Seller seems like a great guy and the car was very well taken care of and comes with a bunch of extra maintenance goodies. I’m pretty stoked. :)
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I'm guessing those weren't the years they were using a T-56? Graziano?
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They look soooooo good! Great GT car!
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Yeah, Graziano transaxle. The clutch seems to be the only real ugly thing in the drivetrain, cost/reliability wise.
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Do you think you would try and keep the rear end Aston or swap to vette like Craig on DynoTorque did? I was shocked just how well everything fit in there. The wiring was a mystery he kept saying a 'M module'?? I couldn't make out what that was. I assumed its some sort of CAN translater device. Pretty cool he was going to keep the stock Aston gas pedal. If they were a 2+2 they would be on my list!
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If it gets an LS, I’ll basically exactly copy Craig, the whole way. He did a great job.
I’m a huge fan of Dynotorque/Driftworks, though I had this idea before I saw that build!
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If it gets an LS, I’ll basically exactly copy Craig, the whole way. He did a great job.
I’m a huge fan of Dynotorque/Driftworks, though I had this idea before I saw that build!
Agreed. Corvette transaxle, custom axles, sectioned torque tube (DynoTorque's solution), and figure out what engine to attach to the front. I had my eye on a crispy 2009 ZR1 with good drivetrain before the DynoTorque build was even started but I'm glad someone else did it first. I've also considered Coyote/Voodoo motors or Toyotas 1GZ-FE V12 (depending on what I want to use the car for). All have been mated to a Corvette drivetrain in one application or another.
My challenge is I'm dealing with a SportShift car and, while a manual conversion is under consideration, and relatively straightforward, I'm seriously contemplating the idea of the C7 8-speed auto and integrating factory controls, including the gear selectors and paddle shifters. Manual is definitely the path of least resistance though.
Current state:
(https://i.imgur.com/mWwMhrT.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UHQxT6G.jpeg)
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Don’t do a Coyote, it’ll be a real SOB to deal with on that chassis.
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The Toyota V12 might work and would be pretty cool but getting the performance up on it without boost would be difficult.
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Agree. I’ve looked at those a little and even with $$$ custom cams and porting it’s probably a 450 HP motor. Sky is the limit with boost, but that’s a tight engine bay!
Merc V12 or turbo V8 could be interesting and somewhat “on brand” as well. Would need adapters designed though most likely. I bet that XF Motorsports could help with that though…
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Agree. I’ve looked at those a little and even with $$$ custom cams and porting it’s probably a 450 HP motor. Sky is the limit with boost, but that’s a tight engine bay!
Merc V12 or turbo V8 could be interesting and somewhat “on brand” as well. Would need adapters designed though most likely. I bet that XF Motorsports could help with that though…
I suppose it depends on your ultimate goal. The added cost and complexity (and trading Aston tax for turbo Mercedes tax) ruins the appeal for staying "on brand". I'd be more inclined to source an AM V12 at that point. On the Aston tax subject, Velocity AP did just announce new pricing for their twin plate clutch kit below $3000 (about $1000 less than it has been).
The appeal of the Vantage to me is something that I can drive year round in Southern California so I'd personally like an engine with more reasonable running costs that I can actually tinker with. Similar to the FD and the rotary, I love the way the looks of the Aston but I'm indifferent about the powertrain. Having heard a few Vantage V8s and V12s with aftermarket exhausts, my main gripe with an LS is the exhaust note doesn't fit the AM. One solution to this might be the possibility of fabricating an 8 into 1 exhaust but packaging is an unknown element. However, the corvette guys have done it so I'd say it's possible.
The appeal of the 1GZ is price point as they can still be picked up for 2-3k and I know people have adapted them to Corvette drivelines. Aftermarket support and availability of maintenance items in the states, is slim to none but some 1JZ components can be used. However, as you alluded to, anything north of 400hp would require significant investment for NA power (high compression pistons, custom milled heads, and custom cams), and while I think turbos would fit in the engine bay relatively easily (the AJ37 isn't exactly a small engine), it adds significant complexity.
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Yeah, I’m curious how much I like the exhaust note. My car has an aftermarket back box, if I really love the sound, I may be stuck with that engine combo to keep the tone proper. I don’t know how much I’ll care if it’s stupid fast. We shall see. :)
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I may be stuck with that engine combo to keep the tone... proper.
At least you have the lingo and accent down for driving the AM :D
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Congrats Blake,
Can't wait to see pictures.
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Thanks! Picking it up Saturday. I’m getting pretty excited. Doesn’t seem real as of yet, hah
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definietlyh in for some pictures. I love Aston Martins. Definitely a bucket list car for me.
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I’ll get some proper pictures soon. Need to get one of my photographer buddies to take them.
I drove it home 6.5 hours Saturday. No issues. Nothing like getting in, turning the key and driving 400 miles the first time you see a car. Haha!
Only had a minor issue of the speakers cutting out once due to a Bluetooth relay problem. Easy fix.
I did order a couple things to add Bluetooth audio to it. It only has Bluetooth calling now. It came with a big Bluetooth FM thing, but it’s big and ugly and gets in the way of shifting.
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Just checking in to see pics of Blake's Aston Martin. Take a damn phone pic already dammit.
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How long does a picture take? One second? 6.5hr drive is 23,400 opportunities for photographs.
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I’ve been busy taking down Spectre. Calm your ass down.
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I'm not comfortable with you talking about my ass. We've not even had dinner yet.
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So, I mean, wheels aren't mods, right?
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170821091911-12992107.png)
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I’ll get some proper pictures soon. Need to get one of my photographer buddies to take them.
I drove it home 6.5 hours Saturday. No issues. Nothing like getting in, turning the key and driving 400 miles the first time you see a car. Haha!
Only had a minor issue of the speakers cutting out once due to a Bluetooth relay problem. Easy fix.
I did order a couple things to add Bluetooth audio to it. It only has Bluetooth calling now. It came with a big Bluetooth FM thing, but it’s big and ugly and gets in the way of shifting.
Coming up on the month anniversary of when you said you would get pictures soon... :poke:
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Is me being bad about taking pictures really surprising to anyone. :D
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Is me being bad about taking pictures really surprising to anyone. :D
good point
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So, I mean, wheels aren't mods, right?
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170821091911-12992107.png)
Does it need tires? One could argue that rims/tires are maintenance items?
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Does it need tires? One could argue that rims/tires are maintenance items?
I mean, it needs them at some point, so this is preventative maintenance.
I was cleaning the wheels yesterday and one has a big dent in the lip. It doesn't seem noticeable on the street, but it's definitely sub-optimal. The powder is peeling on one of the front wheels also, so.
Edit: Oh, and for reference. I ordered BC Forged RZ39s in brushed gray (aka brake dust color). 19x9 ET38 front, 19x10 ET38 rear. Falken Azenis FK510 255/35/19 front, 295/30/19 rear.
Going to look ceramic coat them and the calipers when I get them, and then look at new brake pads because these things dust an utterly ridiculous amount (like write your name in the dust after 10-12 miles of low speed city driving).
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Maintenance would be replacing the rim with a OEM one again and leaving the other 3 alone. You fail, we win. Congrates on the non pictured, modified Aston!
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Do you know how much a new wheel from Aston Martin costs? Hahaha
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Cost saving OE replacement!
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It comes down to, how did you sell this preventative maintenance to your wife.
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NO ONE TELL MY WIFE!
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It comes down to, how did you sell this preventative maintenance to your wife.
NO ONE TELL MY WIFE!
I think you have your answer.
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The win/fail ratio of this thread is high.
Picture-less / imaginary Aston remains a fail... Good natured heckling from the boys re: wife avoidance wheel purchases? All win. LOL.
-Joel
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(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230821171950-13005246.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230821171944-13003226.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230821171945-130031570.jpeg)
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Looking good :D. I guess I need to pull the trigger on that Vantage S mesh grille.
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It does exist!
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Oh man oh man.....so classy and screams civilized testosterone!!
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oh man. that looks good. There is one for sale locally here in Indy but they want like $47k for it. 06 Vantage coupe 6-speed black on black with 37k miles. Seems a bit spendy
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That’s about what I paid for my 07, though it had a ton of expensive maintenance done recently.
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Looks toooo stock :D
When is the 2nd mod after wheels 8) :poke:
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Daaaaaaaaaammn. Someone spent some time with a claybar on that thing. Gorgeous.
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Wheels came in today; they’re at the tire shop getting put together. Super excited to see them actually ON the car, they look great in the box at least! I will ceramic them (and the brake calipers) before I install them.
Next mods are:
Brake pads that don’t dust like mad (this will happen soon)
Maybe lowering springs (or coil-overs)
Headers
High flow cats
Tune
Upgraded Nav/Bluetooth system
Dual disc clutch with lighter flywheel
Maybe clear tails
Maybe Vantage “S” side skirts
These will be spread out over quite a while, though. Just little stuff, really. I don’t want to change the character of the car.
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Wheels on, needs lowered for sure now!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170921163616-13006921.jpeg)
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Oh man that looks great!
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It has waaaaaaay too much wheel gap with the flush fitment now. Ordered some progressive lowering springs from Velocity AP. Supposed to drop it 1” and improve ride. We shall see.
I also ordered some Porterfield R4S brake pads. Apparently as good or better than the stockers with 90% less dust and squeal. The stock pads dust like mad and squeal like a dump truck.
This winter, I’ll probably do the exhaust work and window tint. I will see from there.
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I am pretty sure performance springs are considered a mod?
And, did you order them on Saturday, if so.... I win! Almost exactly 3 months from when you picked it up. :gruffy: :poke:
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Nah man, It’s barely 8 weeks. Hahahaha
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Headers aren’t a mod, right? Right?
Right.
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Headers aren’t a mod, right? Right?
Right.
Right
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They help fuel mileage. I’m an environmentalist.
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^ ok, I just blew coffee out my nose.....
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Got a steal on a roadster spec front lower chassis shear plate also. The roadster has extra braces front/rear, which can be fitted to the base chassis (and the race cars used).
They’re hard to find and I found one cheap. It should help stiffen things up a touch. Now to keep an eye out for the rear plate.
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Got a steal on a roadster spec front lower chassis shear plate also. The roadster has extra braces front/rear, which can be fitted to the base chassis (and the race cars used).
They’re hard to find and I found one cheap. It should help stiffen things up a touch. Now to keep an eye out for the rear plate.
And how is this not a mod? Safety?
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And how is this not a mod? Safety?
Improved chassis rigidity helps suspension actuation, reducing tire wear.
Obviously.
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not a mod if its a factory original part
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So, I cut up my brand new 2000 dollar headers and converted them to v bands instead of the 3 bolt flanges they had stock.
I’m going to do the same at the mid pipe which has slip fits and ball and socket joints. No thanks. V bands there also.
Headers are both installed. What a pain that was. No room to work at all. I got the driver side swapped in about 3 hours, but the passenger side took 5 because I had to pull the suspension apart and move the subframe to get the headers out/in. Ugh.
I got a start on the cats now, with the flange, first pipe section and cat installed along with one wideband port on each side. I’ll be interested to see if the high flow cats trip the “catalyst efficiency” check engine light or not. I plan to have a tune done anyway to adjust for the changes, so I’ll have that disabled along with removing the EGR system since the headers delete it anyway. Then I can pull that big ugly thing off the intake manifold.
I went to start looking at the mid pipe to make the x pipe section and that thing is 2x 2.25” pipe. WTF. Anyway, it’ll be 2x 3” now. This car was already a bit loud, so… yeah, it’ll likely scream at high revs.
Finally, my lowering springs are back ordered until… someday, so I cancelled those and ordered some coil overs instead. Hopefully those are available.
I am definitely not excited to do the clutch in this thing someday, after pulling the headers. The driver side header has to come back off for that. So here’s hoping this clutch continues to have a long life. :)
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Okay! Progress!
Exhaust is in! I think I need a new muffler, the high flow cats make it loud. Like, a bit obnoxious. It’s a “Super Sport” exhaust, I think, which is the loudest option. It was fine with stock cats, but it screams with the high flow cats and x pipe I built. I’ll have to look at options there.
Beyond that, the cats were a bit of a pain to fit, but not horrible. The driver side is a little bit funky in the pipe work, but nothing that matters at all for power.
The X pipe is super narrow and was a real pain to fab, but well worth the 1600 dollars I saved doing it myself.
The chassis plate was fussy. I had to drill and add 4 rivet nuts to the “frame rails” to fit it, and modify the fender liners, but it’s in now. Did it help? I dunno, but it makes me feel better that it’s there. Haha
Lowering springs were easy. About 30 minutes per side. At least that job is easy.
Oh, this thing is a real pain to get on the lift. Now that it’s lowered, I can’t get that arms with lift pucks under it. So I have to jack it up to lift it. Fun. I think I’ll get some race ramps or something to help that.
I had to delete the EGR with the headers, so it sets an EGR flow SES code. I will have that deleted in the tune, along with the rear O2s. They haven’t triggered yet, but I know with high flow cats they do pop alerts now and then.
I’ll put some pics up shortly. Probably.
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nice. Yeah post up some photos of all this stuff!
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Or better yet a video clip of the exhaust at full song! Whats the wife say now :poke:
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Dual 3" sounds obnoxious. 2.5" is my comfort limit for duals.
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This setup sounds like an Indycar at anything above 40% throttle. I mean, it sounds good, it’s just obnoxious.
They make a baffled setup with valves that’s straight through when open and pretty quiet when closed. I think I may look at that for the rear.
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To review, gap with the new wheels on:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114934-130221010.jpeg)
And now the current gap with the springs on:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114946-13024868.jpeg)
X-pipe work. The shiny area is my fabricated X. There was a 1” H pipe crossover here originally.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114904-130151566.jpeg)
And painted up for installation. Note that I changed the connections from 3 bolt and ball flanges to v-band:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114901-13015601.jpeg)
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Headers vs stock:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114912-130181053.jpeg)
Fitment is tight!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114912-130182058.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114924-13020223.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114926-130206.jpeg)
Oil catch can installed:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114943-130241131.jpeg)
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12V Accessory port cover, because I’m a child:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-201021114938-130222255.jpeg)
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Love the eject.
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Looks gude!!
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Sound clips?
(https://i.imgur.com/qklUZ3O.jpg)
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Ha! Where did you get the EJECT button? I want one!
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I’ll get sound clips once I sort out making it not 120 decibel constantly.
Button is from Amazon. It was ~9 dollars I think. :)
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Looks good! Good thing you performed all the required maintenance. Would hate to see you get stranded because your exhaust manifold fell off.
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Looks good! Good thing you performed all the required maintenance. Would hate to see you get stranded because your exhaust manifold fell off.
It had 3 loose or missing studs/nuts on the header to head flange! Probably from when the engine was replaced by Aston Martin under warranty. So, ya know, it was maintenance related!
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Wow sharp! All of it! LOL on eject botton, I have a "Fire missles" for the same reason LOL :D :D
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Gorgeous
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Seems like it's time to start a build thread...or will you just continue to document the standard "maintenance" items on a V8V here?
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If there’s no build thread, they aren’t mods…. Right?
Tune came in today. Rain for the next few days though. Tune helps fuel mileage and emissions, by leaning out the mixture, so. Environmentalist.
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Cleared up today so I took it for a short drive. Tune was 100% worth it. The factory throttle response was horrible and my main complaint in the car really. Drastically improved in the tune now, shifting/rev matching is much nicer. Supposed to be worth 35-40 HP as well but I didn’t have a chance to hammer on it much.
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Who did the tune? With exhaust rough power estimate?
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Velocity AP did the tune.
Estimate would be around 440-450 flywheel.
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My FD might sell and I have been looking at something like a AM, great cars!
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In the random tweaks category…
The headers I installed deleted the EGR pipe. The tune deleted the codes for it. So, now I had a big, rusty, cast iron chunk of ugly on my engine for no purpose.
So, I whipped up a quick block off plate, and removed the EGR entirely.
Which set a code for a barometric pressure sensor in the hatch. Uhhh, okay.
So I tore apart the EGR box and identified a pressure transducer in it. I tied that back into the vacuum and electrical systems and all is happy again. I assume they do some kind of sanity check between the sensors for emissions systems. Anyway. Removed the big ugly part regardless and probably took 2-3 lbs off of the car as well.
Small tweaks and improvements. :)
Waiting on that Black Friday sale for the exhaust now. Then tint, clear tails, updated side skirts, rear shear plate, and updated nav system with car play.
Then I’m done modding it. I mean, improving minor details in ways that aren’t modifications. Yeah, that’s it.
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Now that you've had some time to wrench on it, what's opinion on build quality and engineering of the Aston? More/less difficult to work on than a contemporary German or Japanese car?
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The electronics seem to be similar to late European cars from a “fussiness” standpoint. Build quality, mechanically, is very much reminiscent of Ford and Volvo of that era. Fairly simple overall, things generally make sense.
The hand built aspects mostly relate to slightly “eh” panel fitment in some places and the extremely nice interior vs. contemporary cars of the time.
Handling and braking is fantastic. Power output is reminiscent of a modded 90s inline 6 turbo car. It’s soft on torque down low overall, but not terrible, but really gets moving from 4500-7500. It really rewards smooth driving vs the brutality of something like my RX7 or Mustang.
Servicing it seems to be pretty easy. I’d put it about even with a C5 Vette. A few small annoyances but overall pretty easy.
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Ordered a stock style valved muffler to replace the loud one I have now. Yay Black Friday sales!
Nothing else planned for the near future, other than maybe the Bluetooth upgrade at some point.
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Got the old muffler off the car. I don’t know what they made the bolts for the muffler clamps from, but they looked like they’d been under the ocean for 20 years. Everything else under the car is spotless.
Anyway, I’m replacing them with some stainless bolts and zinc’d fasteners (double stainless on exhaust is a bad time in my experience).
Waiting on the new muffler and high flow intake filters to arrive. I ordered new cabin filters while I was at it. I need to schedule window tint over the winter some time. This spring I’ll probably do the infotainment system upgrade and add a rear view camera.
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Interesting comment on stainless / zinc fasteners. Do stainless / stainless tend to seize or gall together?
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At exhaust temperatures they can have a tendency to gall. OEMs that use stainless on things like that use special coatings (zinc maybe?) to reduce the galling, or use copper nuts, etc. To me, the main thing is using a stainless bolt, because as long as the threads don't get any corrosion, the nuts should come off even if they get a bit. The clamps on the Aston exhaust are these weird custom things, but they lock like a weird v-band, so I'm basically replacing just the tension bolt portion of it with stainless, then use a regular grade 8 zinc nut to lock tension on it.
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That makes a lot of sense, good info, thanks.
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I've had good luck with stainless hardware, even on exhaust, but I always use anti-seize compound on ALL stainless fasteners.
In fact, unless a fastener requires thread-lock, I generally use anti-seize.
I did buy some SS band-clamps recently that had the absolute cheapest bolts I've ever encountered.
The damn threads stripped off clean before the bands had even conformed to the joint. >:(
I picked up some standard SS bolts and everything worked fine.
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There was an 09 Vantage V8 that just sold on FB in Indy for somewhere close to $41,000 I think it had like 30k miles. Black on black 6-speed. I wish I had the $$ to scoop that one up. I was trying to get my buddy to buy it. He could have turned around and sold it on BAT for $50k. I am putting an addition on my house and adding 3 car garage at the same time so my car budget is gone for a few years
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There was an 09 Vantage V8 that just sold on FB in Indy for somewhere close to $41,000 I think it had like 30k miles. Black on black 6-speed. I wish I had the $$ to scoop that one up. I was trying to get my buddy to buy it. He could have turned around and sold it on BAT for $50k. I am putting an addition on my house and adding 3 car garage at the same time so my car budget is gone for a few years
I saw that. That was a little less than I paid for mine, and it had some mods I want to add. If I didn’t have mine already I’d have snagged that for sure, was a solid deal.
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I ordered one more thing for the year, since it was on sale. Shocking, I know.
Apple Carplay integration/upgrade kit. The car has horrid Volvo navigation that is from roughly the Apple IIe era, and no infotainment at all. It has a screen that pops up (mine needs fixed, it sticks), but only does the horrid nav. I had previously done the Mr12Volt Bluetooth integration kit, but it's so-so at best. A company called Aston Installations makes a full kit to add Apple Car Play/Android Auto to the car, including integration into the screen and factory nav system, etc. It also adds automatic function backup camera, which is nice as the Vantage doesn't have great rear visibility (you can add a front camera also, but I see less need in that).
They do have a screen upgrade option to, in order to increase resolution, but a guy online has a guide that he did to set that up himself for about 1/10th the price, so I think I'm going to give that a shot if the screen resolution bugs me in Car Play (let's be honest, it will bug me). The car already has a great stereo and generally lovely interior, so I think that the infotainment upgrade to allow me to use YouTube Music and Waze/Maps on the screen is the last thing it really needs, other than tint, interior wise. I did add some Lloyds floor mats to it also, as stock it doesn't have any mats and I'd like to keep the carpet nice since it's expensive to replace.
When I tear it apart for the infotainment system work, I'll reflow the solder joints on the bluetooth switcher. That's under the passenger floor area somewhere, and they get wonky and cut out occasionally. Mine doesn't do it often, but a good kick to the floor on that side fixes it generally, which sounds like cold solder joints to me. If not, I'll just rebuild it. They want like 100 dollars to replace it and it's just a little board with a relay on it. No thanks. :D
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Love these updates!
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So, the company that makes the infotainment upgrade setup discontinued the model I ordered. They only make the HD screen upgrade/wireless version now. It’s 1100 dollars more, which isn’t awesome, but the vendor offered to split the difference and cover my shipping (it has to go to England and back). So I’ll end up paying a little less than 500 out of pocket for the upgrade.
All in all a win I think. Wireless CarPlay and double the screen resolution is a big upgrade.
I’m tearing the interior out for this work and a dashcam hardwire job this weekend. Hopefully my exhaust comes by then also.
I’m also going to modify the high flow cat setup I built. Just adding some flex bellows to keep load off the headers a bit.
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Modern infotainment is always worth it.
Wish I could update my Lexus LS 460 from 2010.
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What company did you go through or get the update on the infotainment? Is the backup camera a separate unit?
Do you just send them the unit yourself or is there more involved? Aston Martin wants..... way too much to upgrade these garbage Volvo units. Horrible stuff.
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The kit is from Aston Installations. I purchased through Rich at RedPants.
I ship the display to England to get the HD upgrade done. They send it back with a bunch of wiring and stuff that is all plug and play in the car. I do have to disassemble a bunch of interior to install, especially since I’m adding a rear camera to the car.
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Got a good deal on some later year clear tail lights for the car. I’m obviously a ricer inside so I had to have them. ;)
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Got a good deal on some later year clear tail lights for the car. I’m obviously a ricer inside so I had to have them. ;)
Nice, I like them more myself over the red ones. Do you have to replace the 3rd brake light too? Ever since seeing them on the DBS they just give that more modern touch I find.
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I got a set of all 3 lights in excellent condition for 600. It came with the center light. :)
I agree in that I think the clears modernize then car a lot. I guess that makes sense because the later years came with them by default.
From an exterior perspective, the only other things I’d like to do are:
N4xx Carbon rear diffuser blade
V12 side skirts
GT4 hood
Probably the only car where the only “mods” I’d make to appearance are factory options. I do want to do the carbon center dash/console bits. We will see if I choose to spend that much money for purely appearance bits though.
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(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-250122205631.jpeg)
I like these much better than the reds. :)
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Yes, small change but updates the car in a big way I think as well.
Just needs a LT4 in there now.... hehe
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My wife needed in the attic today, and it was nice and snow free out, so I took the car around the block for a few miles.
I LOVE the new exhaust. So much. It’s just loud enough to be audible with the valves closed. I no longer feel like a tool driving through my neighborhood in it. :). It still screams with the valves open also. I ordered up a remote control setup to allow me to run the valves open or closed at will.
Finally, I ordered some front stone guards that sit just behind the front wheels, similar to the FD “spats”. Aston Martin makes them and they’re supposed to really help with launching rocks at the rear quarter panels, especially when some knob puts wide, sticky tires up front. ;)
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Reading how much fun you're having with this thing makes me think these cars will be seriously going up in value.
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The CarPlay upgrade kit came in; impressively quick turnaround considering that screen arrived in England last week.
Anyway, I’ve started on the process of getting it installed. The instructions are…. Not great. Definitely wouldn’t recommend for novices, but I think I can sort it out.
Going to add the dash cam hardwire kit at the same time and probably leave a tap for a radar detector.
Once I get that Mustang back together I’ll put it in the high flow filters, redo the cat pipes with flex bellows and install the “rock guards” behind the front wheels.
Then it’s off for tint and should be ready for 2022! :)
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Need to add some updates here I suppose. The CarPlay system is all installed, along with the dashcam setup. I swapped all the interior lights for LED while I was at it.
Thoughts on the CarPlay setup:
The cables could be better fitted; I’ll probably redo them later to fit perfectly. Audio is good, but notably quieter than the CD player/FM radio. It also doesn’t take over immediately on start, so it blasts the FM radio when you turn it on. I want to talk to the manufacturer about that behavior.
A local high end detailing shop needed a dark car to teach a detailing class on. I volunteered mine. Instructor will be using it as an example to teach with, and I get a full paint correction plus professional ceramic coat for half price, which is great.
Since it was there anyway, I’m having them tint it also. The car had tint at some point in the past, and it was only partially removed. Something like 50%. So they’re cleaning the old tint off the hatch glass and then doing the whole car (minus windshield) in 30% ceramic which is the darkest legal here. They’re going to ask the tint guy about doing the windshield in 90% ceramic also. Just to cut heat down and keep UV off the leather dash.
Once it gets back I’ll add the last details from my side and it will be ready for the season.
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I had 5% all around and 30% on my windshield on my 2010 370z i had a few years back. Was really hard to see out of haha. The aston will look sweet with some nice tint on it.
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(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-020322084928-13320279.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-020322084928-13320893.jpeg)
Paint correction and ceramic came out great and I am thrilled with the tint. I will get some good pictures once the weather improves. :)
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yeah that looks sweet. Such a sexy car.
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Looks wicked dude, really brings out those clean lines in the design.
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That is a sexy ride Blake. Sophisticated sexy.
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Thanks guys, I honestly enjoy the car much more than I expected. Probably because I'm old, LOL.
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Took a road trip with the local driving club today to a place called "Cammack Station". It had a bunch of cool old Americana and pretty good food. The guy parked next to me in the Lincoln also has an Aston Martin (White DB9). Hah!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-210522235448.jpeg)
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thats a great photo!
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What are your thoughts on the car now almost a year in on it?
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I love it. My favorite “cruiser” I’ve owned. It’s a great balance of comfort, performance and luxury. I drove it regularly and enjoy it every single time.
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Ordered the later year center console armrest, as I hate the factory early one. The newer has actual storage and such in it and looks much better.
I’m going to design a new “coin pocket” for the shifter area to hold the controls for the CarPlay system, as they’re in the current crappy cup holder area. The new armrest has a place for a 12V accessory and USB ports, which are in that coin pocket now.
So I’ll utilize the armrest ones instead and make the coin area a hideaway for the controls. I think I’ll also add a Qi charger pad to the new console interior as well.
Nothing dramatic; just quality of life/convenience stuff. I still want to do a full carbon interior update in the future as a possible next modification.
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Have you seen the "forged carbon" aero for these lol? Super sick. Food for thought? Haha.
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I need to grab some photos, but I redid the coin tray and finished the center console work. Really happy with how it turned out. I got a ticket a few weeks ago, first in a while, which pushed me to get a new radar detector. I need to add a hardwire kit for it, as I hate the cable hanging down my dashboard right now.
If you're curious, I purchased a Radenso DS1. I'd like a Theia from them when it comes out, someday.
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Damn I'm going to have to ride up to Indiana and check this out. :cheers:
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Damn I'm going to have to ride up to Indiana and check this out. :cheers:
Anytime buddy!
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In the list of mods for this, I'm still slowly tweaking things.
I had previously added the front shear plate from the "S" and "Roadster" models. It's a big thick aluminum plate that ties everything together. They make a rear plate as well, and I finally found one for a good price, so I ordered that. Supposed to be a pretty big chassis stiffness improvement. I'm also upgrading the keyfob housings (LOL) as the ones they come with are kinda cheap feeling.
I'm looking at DBS swaybars and poly bushings for those to tighten things up a little, particularly as I've got a clunk up front which seems to be a sway bushing or end link so I need to get in there anyway.
I'd also like to do 2 piece brake rotors at some point and a twin disc clutch. Outside of that, I'd like to do the carbon interior upgrades for the center console at some point and that's about it unless I get real silly on the drivetrain upgrades.
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I need to convince my wife to let me get an Aston instead of adding on to our house haha
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Sway bars should be here Monday, and I ordered the carbon interior work. I need to send my interior panels to Poland to have the work finished up. Yay for British cars.
Planning to do the brake upgrade next month.
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Still waiting on my panels to come back from Poland, hopefully they'll be here next week.
I'm not doing the brake upgrade for now, maybe this fall. Checked the brakes I have and they've got plenty left.
I did get the rear swaybar installed, and started working on the rear shear plate upgrade. Turns out my subframe doesn't have all of the right brackets for it, so I'll have to fabricate some and weld them to the subframe, which means I'm not messing with that until the Mustang is off the lift because screw doing that crap on the floor.
I'll get the front swaybar in this week, along with an oil change. I have an occasional clunk in the front end I want to sort out while I'm under there. I thought it might be a swaybar endlink, but it doesn't look like that's it now. I'll go through the control arm bushings and ball joints, and the swaybar bushings will get replaced when I do the bar anyway. If it's bushings, I'll just swap to poly.
Once the suspension is sorted and the interior gets back, I think that'll do it for this season, then just drive, drive drive. :)
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These keep popping up on BAT. Still hovering around that $40k mark. I really want one but I don't think my wife will go for it, lol.
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This thread needs more pictures...... :cheesy:
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Fine. Pictures.
Carbon interior stuff in process. The first picture is the carbon overlays right out of the mold. The second picture is the overlays bonded and in early stages of clearcoating and prep:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-090523095403-139511816.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-090523095104-139362387.jpeg)
And rear swaybars, old vs. new. The new is (obviously) the thicker one. 29mm vs. 25.2mm.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-090523095312-13949652.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-090523095316-139502347.jpeg)
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Biggest sway bars ever.
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Are you making those carbon bits yourself?
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Biggest sway bars ever.
They are huge. But then again this is a shockingly heavy for car for something made almost entirely out of aluminum and composite.
Are you making those carbon bits yourself?
No. Place in Poland is doing it for me. https://ecpsgroup.com/
I've done carbon work and it's a real PITA. Not to mention needing to silkscreen on labels, etc. Meh. Time is more critical than money right now for some of this stuff.
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Carbon is finished up and headed back my way. Excited to drive this car again! I'm almost equally excited to detail it, as it's gross from sitting in my garage/shop all winter.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-200523064218-139621667.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-200523064217-139621671.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-200523064228-13971645.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-200523064225-139692427.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-200523064224-13969306.jpeg)
Super happy with the photos, glad I didn't do this one myself. :D
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Those look really nice Blake. Nice choice. 8)
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Wow! Nice pieces!!
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FINALLY got the pieces in (they were stuck in customs for weeks). Car is back together and looks great! Fitting the door handles was a task, the springs are annoying but good zip-tie engineering to hold them in place was victorious in the end.
I'll get pictures soon, but first step was washing the car and finally getting to drive one of my manual transmission V8 cars again!
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Nice! Can't wait to see some pictures of this installed.
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I might have convinced the wife that a supercharged LS/T56 makes sense for this car going forward. It's cheaper than buying a V10 R8, after all.
Drivetrain swap isn't a mod.
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Drivetrain swap isn't a mod.
:D :drive:
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Reached out to Craig at Dynotorque with some questions around the LT4 swap. I think I have a good grip on what's needed to make it happen.
It honestly seems pretty straightforward, with the shortening of the torque tube being the biggest thing I need to farm out, since I don't have the equipment. I'm going to talk to the ECU company that he worked with on the CAN controls for the gauges/ABS/etc. If they can help, that's worth the savings effort to buy a solution. If not, I'll decide the CAN myself and build a controller to talk to the stock gauges/ABS system (or just put an MK60 system in). On his setup, he piggybacked a separate standalone ECU to do CAN interfacing to the OEM stuff, for reference.
I need to get the Mustang finished up and on the road before I tear into this, but I think I'm sold on the conversion. I'll pull the OEM drivetrain out and sell it, and do the GM setup, probably LT4, as I know the fitment can work really well in the chassis.
Plan is to have 100% OEM interior, though I'll probably mod the gauges slightly to replace the LCD screens in the cluster with something more useful. I'll keep the aftermarket muffler I have now as it's plenty high flow, do C7 headers of some flavor, a good twin disc clutch, and a TR6060 or TR6070. OEM shifter location, MGW shifter. Reviewing engine management, but probably Holley as I'm always annoyed dealing with OEM systems.
We'll see. Maybe I'll look back at this in a year and laugh at the whole concept, or maybe I'll have a 625 RWHP V8 Vantage...
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Oh, and interior pics:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203806-140231630.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203616-140201862.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203546-140032267.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203620-14022364.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203604-140182425.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203555-140161825.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203557-14016929.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203608-14018987.jpeg)
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man that looks good. the 2000's were pretty bad with the trim materials. I really want to do this with all the trim in my escalade.
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Moved to Build Threads because it's a build thread now.
LT4 will be here next week. 2015 dry sump out of a C7 Z06. Posting now so I can look back at my idiocy in the future.
I need to add a lighting money on fire emoji.
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Wow that was fast!
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lol damn that didn't take long!! Well you better fill this thread up with pictures!! Next time I am up to the in-laws house in Albion I am going to have to stop by and see all your cars in person.
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My garage would be a downer right now. Currently it looks like a bomb went off in a Mustang, with tools and parts thrown everywhere while I scramble to get the Mustang back together/ready. It's a disaster (my wife's phrasing was "death trap"). LOL
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My garage would be a downer right now. Currently it looks like a bomb went off in a Mustang, with tools and parts thrown everywhere while I scramble to get the Mustang back together/ready. It's a disaster (my wife's phrasing was "death trap"). LOL
Sounds like the garage where my FD is. There are 5 cars in there all in various states of not together.
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I'm glad to see I'm not alone in how my garage looks during builds!
Looking forward to seeing this Blake.
Z
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I'm glad I'm not the only disaster garage. I'm clinically OCD, so I have to either have everything DESTROYED or everything PERFECT. That might sound odd, but in between states really upset me, to the point of not being in the garage. I'm less clear why "every flat surface is covered in tools/parts" is better for my brain, but whatever, it works. LOL
In fairness, I know where every tool/part is, as it's set down in the place it needs to be to go back in place as quickly as possible.
On the Aston project, my next step is to sort out a drivetrain "dolly" to drop the whole shebang onto. I'm thinking some 4x4x with casters and bracing is a good idea. I can then use it as a reference for engine position (fore/aft, up/down) and distance between the front subframe and rear half-shaft location, so that I can properly identify length for the torque tube. I honestly think that's the only complicated part of this. I'm going to have to do some extra work and lines for the dry sump, but I've always wanted to do a dry sump engine anyway, so I'm willing to.
The place in the UK that did the ECU for the DynoTorque car hasn't responded to my query, so we'll see how that goes. I'm going to start reverse engineering the Aston CAN anyway, and figure out what chassis systems need what information, and what I can translate or just spoof. That part of this seems less frustrating and more fun, but I'm a sick person, so.
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For the torque tube, are you planning on using the Aston input/TOB and just adapting the bell housing? It'd be nice if you could just reuse the Aston input shaft, TOB, and driveshaft and just adapt the bell housing. It shouldn't be too hard to find the right OD/Thk clutch disk for the LS PP and Aston input shaft. Same for a pilot bearing.
Do you know if there's much freedom in the torque tube angle? You may want to get good measurements on the Aston crank centerline in the car before you pull everything apart. If the transaxle is pretty fixed, you won't really be able to move the LS up/down to clear stuff like the oil pan and blower/hood. This sounds like a great excuse to buy a 3D scanner :D
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I'm doing all Corvette bits for the drivetrain. Cheaper, stronger pieces all around, easy attainable. Craig Taylor from Dynotorque in the UK did one the same way, except with a wet sump pan, which is actually deeper (slightly) than the dry sump pan I'm using. The wet sump pan clears the subframe better, but I have a plan for that already.
Also the Vantage ratios kinda suck, and would really suck with an LT4. I'm in 6th gear and 2000 RPM at 55 MPH. You have to spin the 4.3/4.7 motors to the moon to make power.
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Engine is in my possession. I need to get the Mustang crossmember mod finished, so that I can get the engine back in, and use my hoist to put the LT4 on my engine stand.
Looking at the engine, it has a 2.30" upper pulley (+2-3 psi), a flex fuel sensor added on, ARP exhaust bolts and MSD plug wires. Front cover bolts look stock, so I think the cam is stock, and the blower is not ported. So lightly modded.
Harness is beat to heck and the ECU connectors are a little jacked up, so I'll have to see if I can fix those, or will need a new stock ECU. Harness repair work is no big deal, I expect I was going to need to relocate the ECU anyway. Engine is dirty, it looks like the donor car ended its life in a ditch. Just muddy though, not flood dirty. I'll pull the valve covers and stuff later to check everything, but it looks good.
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where did you buy it from?
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AZ Cycle Parts via eBay. They were responsive and helpful. Shipped through R&L with delivery into my home garage.
I was curious how much effort it was going to be to clean up the dirt on the engine. I hit it with compressed air and it actually cleaned up beautifully. The mud literally blew right off. I pulled a valve cover to get an idea of what I was dealing with, internally. It looks like a 0 mile engine inside.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150823091311-140371026.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150823091311-14037429.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150823091307-14024827.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150823091307-14024616.jpeg)
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The engine looks really clean inside and out!
What are you planning do to for a intercooler heat exchanger and pump? Is there much room in front of the OE Aston cooler stack? Does the LT4 need a oil cooler also, or is it water-oil HX only?
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1. Heat exchanger/pump. I'll use some type of OEM pump, that shouldn't be too bad to mount, etc. There is enough room to fit a heat exchanger up front without too much effort. I may want to move the...
2. Oil cooler. The Vantage has an oil cooler up front stock, but I may move to a side mounted, more efficient option, etc. I will just keep the a2w oil cooler on the LT4 instead, if it fits, but I don't think it will fit very well.
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Fwiw, Howe can make custom radiators in a bunch of different dimensions. They also will do a thinner single tube version that would probably make for a better HX. I plan on having one made for my A2W setup next year. I also had good results using OE Roush supercharger kit HXs on previous A2W setups. They're made by Griffin iirc.
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Thanks for the tips, especially on the Roush bits, I'll keep an eye out for those when I'm closer to ready for it.
I did some tear down on the engine this weekend, now that the Mustang is going together and I have some garage space available. I found that the a coil pack is broken (as advertised), alternator is damaged (I knew this) and the A/C compressor is also cracked (didn't know this, but I was going to put in a Sanden most likely anyway). Other than that, the engine looks great, if still a bit dirty. I'll grab some more brakeleen and clean up the front cover now that it's stripped down.
I pulled the engine harness off of it, and I'll start re-working that once the Mustang is done. It's a mess, with some damaged wires and covered in dirt/grease. I miss working on my brand new parts on the Mustang, LOL.
I also ordered a trans/diff. 2011 C6 GS/Z06 TR6060 and differential. I'm not sure if I'll use all the coolers, etc., but I'd like to. Z06/GS in that year have the upgraded TR6060 transmission (vs. T56 in <08) and have stronger output shaft/differential. I figure putting blower torque through it, stronger is better. I looked at the 7 speed stuff from the later cars, but the transmission is 1.75" longer, which isn't great for my needs, and apparently the late model diffs are weaker than the earlier models.
I just need a torque tube/bellhousing assembly and axle shafts to be able to do all of the main fabrication. I'll snag those if I find good deals over the next few months.
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do you have a source for wires you use? I have to redo a lot of my body harness on the 95 and want to use proper wire and same colors if possible.
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For "patching in" wires, I have a bunch of old harnesses I steal from, or I buy from Wirebarn in bulk (TXL/GXL).
If I'm building new harness stuff, or making major changes, I tend to use Mil Spec wiring/connectors from ProWire USA. My Deutsch connectors are a mix of real and fake Chinese ones, but I only use real solid mil-spec pins in them regardless. OEM connectors tend to come from Mouser, KSV Looms or Ballenger motorsports, depending on availability.
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Oh yeah, pictures of diff/trans:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-210823135928-140392036.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-210823135932-14042142.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-210823135928-140391684.jpeg)
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It looks like the C6 wheelbase is about 3" longer than the Vantage. Are you going to end up mounting the engine further forward to accommodate, or shorten the torque tube?
What are your options for half shafts that use C6 inners and Aston outers? Do you know if you got the Z51 gearing or standard gearing? I think the Z51 is closer to the "wide" ratio Magnum, and standard/Z06 is more like the "close" ratio box.
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I'm going to shorten the torque tube. From looking into what Craig did on it, it'll need something like 5-6" shortening to put the engine as far back as possible and keep the transmission aligned. There is a place about an hour south of me that has torque tubes shortened regularly (RPM Transmission). I don't have the gear for that at home, sadly.
I'll fabricate half shafts out of the two pieces, validate fitment, then send those out to be properly manufactured by... somebody. Custom half-shafts aren't a super uncommon ask, so I don't think it'll be too big of an issue.
Gearing (GS is the same as Z51):
1: 2.97
2: 2.07
3: 1.43
4: 1.00
5: 0.71
6: 0.57
Differential: 3.42
Honestly, I doubt I'd notice a huge difference in my street car usage. ZR1 1-3 would be nicer with the blower torque, but I'd rather have the Z51/GS (or even better, Z06) 5-6 for cruising. As-is, this is strong enough, which was my biggest goal.
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Nice, that sounds like a lot of work but doable.
FWIW, I had the wide ratio Magnum and liked it. With a torquey setup like a PD blower, the larger gear drops aren't a problem. Ditton on the long 5/6th. Great on the highway.
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I realize this is an "old guy" thing to say, but I'm pretty excited for the low RPM on the highway, and the quieter ride/improved fuel mileage that goes with it.
FWIW, the Aston ratios are:
1: 3.154
2: 1.974
3: 1.435
4: 1.148
5: 0.935
6: 0.775
Final Drive 3.909:1
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Oh, and interior pics:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203806-140231630.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203616-140201862.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203546-140032267.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203620-14022364.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203604-140182425.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203555-140161825.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203557-14016929.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-260723203608-14018987.jpeg)
wow, the carbon turned out amazing.
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This build is so cool. I love where this is going.
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Found a C6 torque tube/bellhousing for a good deal, will pick that up in a few weeks. That's the last piece needed to be able to start the main swap. I still need to snag a set of C6 half shafts. Once I get the drivetrain in place, I will need to get the torque tube shortened and custom axle shafts for the halfshafts to adapt the C6 inner to the Aston outer.
Anyone have any good contacts for custom axle shafts?
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Also, I've not heard anything back from Emerald about buying an ECU to run the gauge stuff. I'll try again shortly as that's still the shortest path to resolution, but if I don't get a response, I think the MaxxECU Sport might be my best option. I can put it in as a piggyback on the E92 for crank/cam signals, toss in oil pressure/temp, coolant pressure/temp and wideband sensors for my purposes, and then setup the programmable CAN outputs to run my stock gauges/chassis systems. That gets me a data logger, bluetooth dash so that I don't have to have it in place all the time (I don't want to modify my interior visibly), etc.
Seems simpler than building my own CAN translation system that has to read the GM data bus and reformat it for the Aston, plus gives me a bunch of extra options. I sure wish there was a good aftermarket ECU option that didn't cost 7 grand (Motec). Holley has the Terminator X Max stuff, which is decent, but it's locked down so hard on the data stream that I'd still have to build a whole CAN translator to run the dash/ABS/etc.
Honestly this is the only real challenge in the whole build. It's a bummer if I can't just use the Emerald setup, because tapping a few sensor leads out of the harness and plugging it in would be a lot easier than doing all this crap myself. Oh well, if I do it myself, I know it'll work at least.
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Maxx is truly one of the best ecus for the price. Can bus support is on another level to most ecus outside the race car pro guys.
Natanael(head programmer) is pretty open to suggestions and tweaks too. They have a preset for the e46 stuff but I only needed the abs. He made a custom file for me to test for others running the mk60 abs. It'll be added as its own setting in a near future update. It pulls wheel speed over can from. The abs to ECU. You plug in tooth count and tires and the math is already done
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Boring parts collection progress...
Got a lead on an ATI Balancer with 5% over pulley, and an alternator (mine is damaged). We'll see how that works out.
Found a vendor (Rudy's Diesel) with a steal of a deal on HP Tuners (MPVI3 Pro + 2 credits for 379 dollars!) so I ordered that up.
On non-swap level issues, my radiator fan module died on the car, causing me to almost overheat at a big car event last weekend. Ordered a new (used) module to fix that. I don't plan to reuse the stock cooling system, but I'd rather sell the system in known good health, anyway.
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Found a vendor (Rudy's Diesel) with a steal of a deal on HP Tuners (MPVI3 Pro + 2 credits for 379 dollars!) so I ordered that up.
Wait you are not going Maxx ECU? I was confused on your can bus integration plan. I 'thought' I heard that the Max Ecu can integrate to run the motor AND the Aston gauges, or no?
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Maxx can't run the Direct Injection.
I'll have a piggyback of some kind to run the gauges, etc. OEM ECU for the DI. Talking to a few people in the know, that was strongly their recommendation (OEM control on the DI, or step up to Motec, etc.). The piggyback will either be Maxx or Emerald.
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I'm annoyed Maxx still doesn't DI but the mini is a great box for doing what you want over can. It gets all the same stuff my $2400 Pro gets. They don't split the software like Holley.
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I think I'll end up with the sport, for the bluetooth dash features. I need the ability to look at wideband, occasionally, and don't want to mount a display in the car, so the dash software seems like a slam dunk for my use case.
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The Maxx dash app is great. It's not super customizable aesthetically, but it lets you add whatever you want and is reliable and robust. You just have to be okay with the color scheme and logo they provide.
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Yeah, my usage will be sporadic validation, not "constant use dash" so if it's a little ugly, I'm okay with that.
I started working on CAN hacking today. Validated some data I found online works, but the CAN network in this car is weird. It has 2x OBDII plugs, one for the ECU, and one for the body system.
The design has everything talking to a body control module, with an output from that to one of the OBDII plugs. The other OBDII is direct to the engine, BUT it's NOT the CAN data the car uses from the engine, that's a second ECU CAN link directly to the body control module, which then sends it to the dash, etc.
Long story short, I get no data from the ECU OBDII plug, but I don't think I care. The body OBDII plug does work, but I don't expect the BCM listens to engine data I put -on- that bus (why would it?).
So, next up, I'll tap the CAN data bus between the ECU and the BCM, and snoop that for the various data bits I need. I'm pretty sure I'll just need engine speed, vehicle speed and engine temp, but may need a few others. As long as I can get on the bus, I'm confident I can reverse engineer the data stream. It's a Ford EEC VI ECU, and I've found some info that the CAN used might be Ford standard, so that -might- help.
Oh, and I -super- pissed the car off poking at the CAN bus. Every dash light is on right now. LOL. I expect I'll need to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to make it happy again. Won't be the last time that happens.
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Probably injected some impedance that crashed the bus. Hahahaha
The dash app really is great. I was even doing controlled injector testing with it for small pulse width and dead time since it's not native to Maxx like the megasquirt stuff.
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LOL, yeah, I don't know what happened. It was on the ECU side, so I did something that pissed it off. I panicked because I had the car running and the temp went straight to HOT AS SHIT and I shut it off, then turned it on and the dash was a Christmas tree. Temp wasn't really high, it was just the dash getting pissy with the CAN issue, actual temp was like 110*. LOL
Anywho, I cleared the codes with my VeePeak/iPhone app and it's right as rain again. Glad that was easy, because, as I noted, it'll happen more, I'm sure. This is the biggest hurdle I need to clear as I have to be able to inject CAN and validate it BEFORE I tear the car down.
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I think I'll end up with the sport, for the bluetooth dash features. I need the ability to look at wideband, occasionally, and don't want to mount a display in the car, so the dash software seems like a slam dunk for my use case.
The Maxx ECU Sport is what I'll be using if I ever get my racecar done. I think it has great features for the price, and the software looks pretty user firendly for a computer idiot like me. :scratch:
I'm planning on using a tablet for my dash display. I'll make a rubber-isolated mount for it to reduce vibration, and I'll have to find a tablet with a really bright display.
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Question to the forum group...
Anyone interested in an overview vide of how I approach CAN hacking for the Vantage? I don't think the company that did this already is going to respond to me, so I'm on the hook to do it myself. I can make a (poorly produced) video explaining the HOW of approaching this, vs. just presenting my final findings, if there is any appetite for it. It'll mostly be me going over how I get access to CAN (via review of the diagrams/logic) and how I approach isolating messages. Mostly me running my mouth, probably. Haha.
Worth the effort? I'm always surprised by the videos that people like (my "3d printer overview" and "external clutch demo" videos by far have the most engagement). Not trying to be a YouTuber here, just help out those that I can.
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Question to the forum group...
Anyone interested in an overview vide of how I approach CAN hacking for the Vantage? I don't think the company that did this already is going to respond to me, so I'm on the hook to do it myself. I can make a (poorly produced) video explaining the HOW of approaching this, vs. just presenting my final findings, if there is any appetite for it. It'll mostly be me going over how I get access to CAN (via review of the diagrams/logic) and how I approach isolating messages. Mostly me running my mouth, probably. Haha.
Worth the effort? I'm always surprised by the videos that people like (my "3d printer overview" and "external clutch demo" videos by far have the most engagement). Not trying to be a YouTuber here, just help out those that I can.
I would LOVE that, I am eyeing a i8 engine swap someday and need to figure out the CAN bus stuff so I can keep stock dash, modes, etc. Its one of the things holding me back on pulling the trigger to kick off the project.
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You have to know the answer is yes. I did the HPA class years ago and was left disappointed. It barely touched deciphering can. I'm decent at it now but I'd always take more learning.
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Yes!
Whether I'll ever need it or not, that would be very interesting to learn.
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I think a video specific on how to make OEM dashes work with CAN would drive some engagement.
Side note: Rudy's Diesel is about 30 mins away from me they do some cool stuff
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Fair enough. I'll start with how I tracked down where to tap the wiring, how I approach sniffing it (you DO NOT need the CAN adapter I have though, they're stupid $$ and I stole one on eBay a while ago) and then how I go about reverse engineering it.
How to make the dash work should, in theory, be the easy part.
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Found some Z06 axles for a good deal. Those will be my donors for the inners. Picking up torque tube next weekend, and should get a chance in the next week or so to tap the CANbus at the CEM. I did buy some more pins to build out the connectors (I have a "standard" connector I use for CANbus taps, which might mean I do too much CANbus tapping...).
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What do you use? I just use DTM 2 or 4 pin if powered. Would like a smaller alternative though. Something 3A rated would be cool. I know someone makes a smaller Deutsch style but they are motorsport and crazy expensive.
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I have DT 2 pin for unpowered, DTM 4 pin for powered.
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Random pic of my car from a recent cruise with our local driving club:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-160923111051-140441860.jpeg)
No useful progress, just a good picture. :D
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Is there a bad picture of an Aston? hehe, looks wicked standing still already dude.
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Hoping to get the CANbus hacking looms in place on this the weekend of the 28th. I'm really excited to start this project properly. Also I'm excited to not have a spare Corvette drivetrain to trip over in my shop.
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Does CANbus hacking work on any car? I would like to see some CAN messages on my Raptor, what type of hardware and software do you like? Or maybe a good site with lots of good info I could study up on? Thanks!!
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CANbus is, in every example I've seen, unencrypted. So yes, any car is hackable. It's not for the faint of heart though, if the values aren't published. I'm 4-5 hours into working through the messages on my car, to try and find a specific few messages on a fairly quiet data bus. I use a tool called a Kvaser Leaf, but there are lots of CAN tools out there that are cheaper than that.
Specifically, I'm looking for:
Vehicle Speed (found 4x channels with wheel speeds, not sure if I need to send 1 or all of these to the chassis)
RPM (found this pretty easily)
Engine Temp (lost on this one still, but I'll figure it out)
I'm working on a video for the process, but it's basically this:
1. Review diagrams, find where to sniff CANbus
2. Add a "tap" to the wires at this point (I soldered in a twisted pair of TXL wires to a DT connector)
3. Find CANbus speed/format. Most scanners can auto-populate this via trial/error.
4. Start sniffing while doing things that you can "find" in the results. Pressing throttle pedal to look for DBW position, revving engine to find RPM, driving to find wheel speed, etc..
5. I import this data into Excel in CSV, so that I can sort by CANID and look for trends. You could probably get fancy and lean on an AI/ML tool to automate this some, but I'm not going to get that fancy.
6. If you want to inject data, you can setup your scanner to inject data and see if you see it on the bus, and if it has the results you want. In my case, I sent my RPM setting and watched the tach jump. Once I get all of the settings, I'll pull power to the ECU and inject all of the dash settings I want, and make sure they respond as expected. It's hard to inject with the ECU on bus, as it's spamming data all the time that will conflict with your injected data.
It's a tedious process, but once I'm done I'll organize the data and share it publicaly. It's a little annoying as some companies have done this already, and it wouldn't really impact them to share the data out, but they choose not to. Oh well. I'll do it myself.
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CANbus is, in every example I've seen, unencrypted. So yes, any car is hackable. It's not for the faint of heart though, if the values aren't published. I'm 4-5 hours into working through the messages on my car, to try and find a specific few messages on a fairly quiet data bus. I use a tool called a Kvaser Leaf, but there are lots of CAN tools out there that are cheaper than that.
Specifically, I'm looking for:
Vehicle Speed (found 4x channels with wheel speeds, not sure if I need to send 1 or all of these to the chassis)
RPM (found this pretty easily)
Engine Temp (lost on this one still, but I'll figure it out)
I'm working on a video for the process, but it's basically this:
1. Review diagrams, find where to sniff CANbus
2. Add a "tap" to the wires at this point (I soldered in a twisted pair of TXL wires to a DT connector)
3. Find CANbus speed/format. Most scanners can auto-populate this via trial/error.
4. Start sniffing while doing things that you can "find" in the results. Pressing throttle pedal to look for DBW position, revving engine to find RPM, driving to find wheel speed, etc..
5. I import this data into Excel in CSV, so that I can sort by CANID and look for trends. You could probably get fancy and lean on an AI/ML tool to automate this some, but I'm not going to get that fancy.
6. If you want to inject data, you can setup your scanner to inject data and see if you see it on the bus, and if it has the results you want. In my case, I sent my RPM setting and watched the tach jump. Once I get all of the settings, I'll pull power to the ECU and inject all of the dash settings I want, and make sure they respond as expected. It's hard to inject with the ECU on bus, as it's spamming data all the time that will conflict with your injected data.
It's a tedious process, but once I'm done I'll organize the data and share it publicaly. It's a little annoying as some companies have done this already, and it wouldn't really impact them to share the data out, but they choose not to. Oh well. I'll do it myself.
This is the process I have seen on youtube it looks awful. LOL I was hoping that there was more modern software and standard CAN ID addresses that most cars use that would make it easier. I would want it to turn off lights in the dash for sensors and stuff I removed during the swap, those seem exponentially harder as its a static number that doesn't change like RPM or something. It really is cool stuff just seems to labor intense right now.
Too bad there aren't companies that would do all this work and sell you the addresses for the car LOL
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Fortunately, it's one of those things the human brain is good at looking for. Patterns and changes. I'd expect an encrypted bus would add too much latency with crc, timing and decryption. Plus, the dealers would have issues if bet.
It's still convoluted when. You change say pedal position and you see 4 separate IDs start to change. Inj pw, torque, pedal position and ignition angle just to start.
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Yeah, it's a right PITA for sure. Haha.
Turning off lights and such will be almost impossible unless you have a stock vehicle to go of. Most likely you need to simulate sensor data or module handshakes to do so, and those may vary based on RPM, speed, temperature, etc.
On the Aston, I plan to get the stock fuel level (easy, it's not using the ECU), tach, speedo and temp gauge to work. There are a bunch of LCDs on the dash that show other stuff. I expect some/all of those may be pissed still, in which case I'll remove them from the circuit board and install my own to drive with an Arduino or something. I have no desire to simulate 100% of factory ECU behaviors to the chassis, just enough to make the systems I need to work, work.
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CAN hacking done.
I can now control, at will:
Dash Wakeup/Keepalive
RPM
Coolant Temp
Vehicle Speed
ABS Light
Traction Control Light
Vehicle Speed, ABS Light and Traction Control Light are all controlled by the ABS module, and don't appear to need the engine computer at all. I'm told that the other one of these that was built always had a TRAC light on, though, so I'm guessing losing the engine computer makes the ABS computer angry. If that's the case, I can send a message every 100ms to keep that light off (or maybe just send a message to make the ABS computer happy to begin with).
The other controls all simply command status, and I've mapped transmit times from the stock ECU, so I'll replicate that on the new controls. The dash still has a few warning lights for electrical system, etc, that I think happen because it's not receiving some data from the ECU. I need the "keep-alive" to... keep it alive... long enough to validate I can shut those off. I'm going to program an Arduino talk on the bus as my current test program can only send one message at a time. Once I have the Arduino setup, I can mimic a constant stream of data, which should let me send "everything is happy" messages to the dash constantly, which should squelch any warning messages.
I need to sort out the math for converting the RPM signal to display correctly, but that's easy enough. Coolant temp just has a sweep of decimal values from 95 - 185 to go from "C" to "H" on the dash, so I can just map those temps however I like from the stock computer.
I feel like this is really the hardest part of the swap, as I don't have documents to work on. Making it fit is just cutting/welding, no big deal. Wiring work is complex, but I have diagrams from both cars, so it's just a matter of clean integration. CAN data control is completely undocumented, so I had to forge my own way on this bit.
I'll have a video put together shortly. I want to get the Arduino in and programmed/controlling things to finalize everything, then I'll edit it (poorly) and share it out. ;)
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I ended up doing the same on my car albeit with two pwm outputs to the stock gauges. Played with the duty to get the stock gauges to read how I wanted. Pretty darn useful. Via can would be more difficult initially but more accurate in the long run. The FD cluster uses the same "motors" for all gauges except the fuel.
Any plans on doing anything with the exhaust to make it a bit more exotic than the typical LS?
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Exhaust wise, not a whole lot. I've got C7 headers (1 7/8") into a 3" x-pipe, which will feed the aftermarket muffler I had with the Vantage engine. It also has bypasses that I can control that basically makes it straight pipes.
I expect it should sound good, but probably like a Corvette mostly.
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Exhaust wise, not a whole lot. I've got C7 headers (1 7/8") into a 3" x-pipe, which will feed the aftermarket muffler I had with the Vantage engine. It also has bypasses that I can control that basically makes it straight pipes.
I expect it should sound good, but probably like a Corvette mostly.
I really want to try a 180 degree header someday with a LS in an exotic like this. Sounds sick!
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There's enough room to package 8 into 1 headers into this chassis (forward mounted). I'm not going to do it because ain't nobody got time for that, but it is possible.
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There's enough room to package 8 into 1 headers into this chassis (forward mounted). I'm not going to do it because ain't nobody got time for that, but it is possible.
It would just be crossing the middle two cylinders over ot the opposite collector. Then making the corners the same length. I would paste a youtube of the sound in here but then it would add a ton of work to you HAHA. 8-1 I am not 100% sold on yet. I thought I would be need better sound clips of the few that have done it.
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Any type of crossover would have to go in front of the engine, so it’s not happening. ;)
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How's the underside? Similar to a Corvette or more like a Camaro?
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Very much like a Corvette underneath.
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So transaxle with plenty of room for an exhaust. You had said it was a graziano trans stock right?
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Correct.
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There's enough room to package 8 into 1 headers into this chassis (forward mounted). I'm not going to do it because ain't nobody got time for that, but it is possible.
8 into 1 would be amazing.
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You can do crossover headers in the tunnel. A number of vette guys have done it. I think I posted the video and corvette forum thread a few pages back lol.
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Well, the Mustang is out of the shop, so the Aston is in. Going to get it on the lift (it's a process.. because it's so low) shortly. Then I can weigh it (step 1) and then start pulling the underbody plates/braces that are in the way when it's properly on the lift. Then I need to finalize my CAN testing, then drop the drivetrain out so I can sell it, and start fitting the new stuff. I mostly just need the new torque tube, and a few small things then I can start fitting everything. Hoping to have some appreciable progress in the next couple weeks. I have one more martial arts tourney before end of year, so I should have some cycles for progress on this thing.
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Ready to start disassembly. Step 1 is measuring OEM weight/balance for reference:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-061123174628.jpeg)
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That balance is about to go boom.
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I don't think it will. I doubt the blower motor is much heavier than this big 4 cam engine, and I know the TR6060/diff is heavier. If anything it may push rearward a little.
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That's fair. I'd guess the weight of the OE engine is close to a coyote.
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Wow that is really well balanced from the factory, never knew Aston was like this. A little porkly at 3500lbs but even that is not bad for a big engined luxo sled.
Does the coyote weigh more than a LS by a lot? I know you have a blower to but motor to motor do you know?
Sick project. I want one now too!
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The Coyote is heavier than an N/A LS and lighter than a blower motor, about in-between.
I was out sick today with a nasty cold and slept most of the day, but work up feeling a little better. Since I was off and it feels nice and cool in the garage, I did a little initial disassembly on the car. Pulled the entire exhaust off, heat shields, and starter/alternator wiring and the starter itself. Going to try to get the drivetrain out next weekend if all goes well.
Then it's some wiring cleanup/prep, and mock-up of the new powertrain.
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Nice overall weight distribution, but I'm a bit surprised the cross weight is that far off from 50%. Aston should be able to do better. LOL
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The Coyote is heavier than an N/A LS and lighter than a blower motor, about in-between.
I was out sick today with a nasty cold and slept most of the day, but work up feeling a little better. Since I was off and it feels nice and cool in the garage, I did a little initial disassembly on the car. Pulled the entire exhaust off, heat shields, and starter/alternator wiring and the starter itself. Going to try to get the drivetrain out next weekend if all goes well.
Then it's some wiring cleanup/prep, and mock-up of the new powertrain.
glad youre starting to feel better. Get lots of photos of this build please!
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I'll get status photos Sunday. Work has been brutal, combined with the cold, I've been slow on progress.
Starting with parts that are valuable/easy to sell to try and get some positive cashflow on the project, ahead of Black Friday, since I still need... a lot of... parts. :D
Exhaust, intake and cooling stack are off the car. Exhaust/intake are sold already, also. Going to try to get the front suspension pulled off this weekend. Next weekend my schedule is pretty open, so I'm hoping to hammer on it then and see how close I can get to dropping the drivetrain out. Once that's done, I can divorce the drivetrain from the subframes and start on the engine fitment.
I've got a potential buyer for the drivetrain, which I'm hoping comes through as it'll really help clear space in the garage. That and the cooling stack are the big items I need to get rid of for space.
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try and get some positive cashflow on the project,
That shits funny right there.
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Tear down progress:
Back box (muffler) and exhaust dropped. Headers/cats/mid-pipe are sold and gone. I'll reuse the muffler.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143809-140731136.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143812-14077551.jpeg)
Cooling system is out as well, minus the oil cooler:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143809-14073858.jpeg)
Engine prep work is moving along. Holley power steering adapter is in, I have their A/C bracket for an SD7 pump as well, just haven't had a chance to install it yet. Headers are also on, as is the dry sump tank adapter. Tank is in hand as well.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143812-14077404.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143816-140791186.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-131123143815-14079656.jpeg)
The stud for the main power on the alternator is a real SOB and has cut me 2-3x by running into it. I need to get this in the car for my own personal safety.
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Nice progress!
What's the stainless box at the front of the engine with a drain plug? Oil HX?
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lol put a vacuum cap on the alternator stud
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Nice progress!
What's the stainless box at the front of the engine with a drain plug? Oil HX?
Thanks! It's the dry sump tank for the OE engine.
lol put a vacuum cap on the alternator stud
I think I'm going to shove a cork on it or something at least, LOL.
I made a little more progress last night, dropped the oil cooler, dry sump tank and all of the related lines. Handily the fittings were all 20AN. This car is, for the most part, pretty easy to work on. Next up is dropping the suspension to make subframe install/removal/install/removal (repeat...) easier. Then some interior pieces to pull the shifter out, axles, a few electrical/fuel connections and it should be ready to "divorce" the drivetrain and get to fitting new bits.
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Sweet! What mfg is the transasxle? I see the plate but can't zoom in. Just curious. Looks fun!
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The OEM transaxle is a Graziano.
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So, after a little research on the ECU front, I'm going to try just building my own CAN translator instead of using the MaxxECU. the MaxxECU seems great, but I think I may still have some challenges with making 100% of the CAN functionality work with it, and I can do my own controller for... 20 dollars. Since it seems I'll need my controller in the mix no matter what, I'm going to start with that, and add the Maxx if needed later.
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That sounds difficult to me but I'm a mechanical engineer not a programmer/electrical guy.
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You had me at CAN translator for $20....
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It's really not hard (so I say now...). It's basically the same thing I did on the Mustang, where I listen to CAN bus, process the message, then output a modified message. In the Mustang I used it to listen for button presses, then output a differently formatted button press to emulate a keypad. In this case, I'd listen to the GM CAN data, process speed, RPM and temperature, then output Aston Martin formatted messages.
The problem with using the MaxxECU to do it, is I need other messages to wake up the dash, etc. I'm not 100% sure I can do that with the Maxx, but I can do it easily with the Arduino. Or in this case, an RP2040, which is kinda like an Arduino but faster, which is good because I'm a shitty coder.
I got my cooling fans for the project today. Chevy Volt dual PWM fans. SUPER slim, perfectly fit for my location, and should be able to PWM them off the factory Chevy ECU. Wins all around. :)
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Can you take a measurement on the Volt fans? Just the shrouded portion, not all the extra bracket stuff, please.
I considered getting Volt fans, but the 600w C7Z fan is also a spal brushless and only like $220 brand new OE Delco on rock auto. It's about an inch thicker than my dual Contour fans.
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I will get some measurements this weekend. :)
Also, this was easier than I expected. My goal for Sunday night was to have the engine/trans out. I'm well ahead of that schedule..
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-171123235446-14081418.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-171123235449-140831302.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-171123235446-140811554.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-171123235448-140832287.jpeg)
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So. Cool.
Ever since Craig did his swap, it's been in high on the desirable swaps list. Progressing nicely dude!
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Modified the subframe for C6 poly engine mounts:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181102-14085791.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181104-14088628.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181101-14085824.jpeg)
And, mocked up on the subframe:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181107-140901395.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181109-1409271.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181110-140931640.jpeg)
And mocked up in the engine bay. The engine angle is off slightly here, but is sorted out now. I've got a start on the cardboard based CAD, once that's done, I'll draw them up in CAD (computer style) then get them laser cut, then bent/welded/painted. The concept on the mounts is to set them up with the engine as far forward and low as possible, then I can shim up/slide it back as needed.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-191123181106-14090546.jpeg)
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Like a glove!!
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Excuse me but you literally just get to bolt the engine into the car with the factory subframe? That's awesome!
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Excuse me but you literally just get to bolt the engine into the car with the factory subframe? That's awesome!
That really is amazing that it drops in so well.
Granted, there's a long way to go, but that just looks like such a great fit. 8)
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Well, sorta. Haha.
I had to hack a crossbar out of the subframe. The nice thing is Aston cast the subframe in two pieces and welded in aluminum tube across them to make the subframe. I'm able to cut out the tube without going all the way back to the cast, meaning I get to weld the new bracing to aluminum tube, not nasty oil soaked cast aluminum.
The factory crossbar is 3/16" (err, 5 mm) 80mm x 40mm or so tubing in the area I cut off. The dry sump oil pan is too deep too far forward to clear it. So I'm going to put in a piece of 1/2" aluminum and plate the open ends. I'll also have to clearance the subframe for the driver side header and a little bit for the dry sump lines, but not too bad. Here's the piece I'm using to reinforce the subframe; I just drew it up quickly in CAD and am having it cut by SendCutSend. I could do it myself, but for their prices, it's only slightly more than me buying the aluminum, and much less work.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-211123092601-140941787.png)
Beyond that, I had to drill out the factory Aston engine mount holes slightly to fit the C6 mounts (those are from Hinson Motorsports, funnily enough) and clearance one area by about 1/8" to fit them. The OEM engine mounts from Aston would have worked, but they're huge, and fluid filled, and expensive. Also not particularly firm, so these should be a good all around balance. Beyond that, I'm just making the actual pieces from the block to mount, which will be very similar to the Ronin pieces for an FC swap.
Fitment is TIGHT front/rear and side/side. I need to make sure my alternator will fit, or find an alternate solution, as it's very close to the strut tower. The crank pulley is spaced exactly one "I can fit a belt through this tiny gap" away from the rack, and I have to pull the factory sound deadening off the firewall to clear the rearmost cylinder head/rocker cover, but it will clear. The rest is pretty easy to deal with, and there is sufficient room up/down to clear. It should fit the larger supercharger lid as well, which I do plan to add eventually.
The transmission will require cutting a crossbar out of the rear subframe. It will fit with it in place, but will SUCK to install/remove. So I'll cut that out and put some interlocking tube clamps for a rollbar in place so that I can easily add/remove the car when I need to service things. The torque tube should "just fit" in the tunnel, but I do need to shorten it, and do a bunch of clearancing on the transmission side to tuck it in tightly.
I'm planning to keep the diff and trans coolers, pull the factory trans cooler out of the Aston, and put in smaller coolers side by side in the same spot, one for the diff, and one for the transmission. Since they have pumps installed from GM, it seems a waste not to use them.
On the engine, I obviously have the dry sump stuff, which I'm running to a Peterson dry sump tank, and probably a custom catch can/vent system. For oil cooling I'm ditching the stock stuff, and using an Improved Racing thermostatic unit in its place, as it's vasty more compact. I'll put a big oil cooler up front, along with all of the other coolers (radiator, AC condenser, supercharger heat exchanger, power steering cooler). There is a lot of real estate up front for coolers, at least compared to what I'm used to with RX7s and the Mustang. Probably 18-24" total front/rear. My intention is to go AN fittings for all of it, mostly for future servicing. I can keep the factory power steering cooler, so that's something. LOL
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Got a chance at lunch to draw up the mounts. My process is:
1. Make flanges out of paper (it's easier to use a dirty finger to mark the holes/edges)
2. Make mounts out of cardboard (transfer flanges from step 1 to these)
3. Set mounts flat with a good ruler for reference (I design in metric, so I use a metric ruler).
4. Take pictures with straight on aspect ratio (your iPhone can help with this)
5. Import into Fusion as a canvas.
6. Scale canvas based on reference.
7. Sketch around design. Adjust known references (bolt hole sizes, bolt patterns).
8. Extrude/adjust as needed.
9. Export sketch as DXF for laser cutting.
10. Bend/cut/weld as needed.
In the first picture you can see my reference canvas. In the second, the parts with the canvas hidden. The little "rectangles" are cuts for bending points. Once I bend it all up, I'll weld those in. These will be 1/4" plate, and they do have reinforcements that I don't have pictures of yet. :)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-211123150403-14096505.png)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-211123150358-140951394.png)
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I am surprised you draw in metric, I work with a bunch of toolmakers so we design everything in inches. are you going to gusset the mounts?
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I got into the habit from doing 3d printing, where a lot of stuff was metric, now it's just habit.
I do have gussets being made. This is what they look like. There are 2x per mount.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-211123170258.png)
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Looking good Blake.
I don't do anything that sophisticated, but I really should get used to using metric for everything.
It really is simpler, and if I can get it in my head to always use it, it should simplify things too.
The nice thing about putting DRO's on my lathe and mill is they have metric modes too.
I just need to replace all my indicators with metric. $$$$
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I work for a British company with Old School American machinists so I am constantly converting between the two units of measure. I prefer metric but I still model in SI.
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So, I've hit my first issue (knew there would be at least a few).
My alternator doesn't fit. The strut tower conflicts with it.
Immediate solution is to buy the Holley accessory drive. Well, a few pieces, I already had the power steering bits. This will replace the water pump and put the alternator where the AC was. It reverses rotation for the water pump, allowing me to re-route the belt and delete the "high point" factory alternator location (which is where Holley puts the AC).
I'm fairly sure the AC won't fit there either, but maybe... (it won't, but I'd like to lie to myself). ASSuming it doesn't fit, I can hack up the Holley pump to delete the AC bracketing from the water pump, put the alternator in the low position, and just find a spot to stick the AC compressor.
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9. Export sketch as DXF for laser cutting.
10. Bend/cut/weld as needed.
Any reason you wouldn't have SCS do the bending, too? Or do you have a decent bending setup. Anything above 1/8" I start to struggle with.
I wish we worked in metric, I'm sick of fractions.
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I'm not 100% sure on the angles, so I'll sneak up on them at home. I've got a 20 ton press brake, I've bent 3/4" steel on it before.
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So I remembered I bought a 3D scanner. Going to try it out for my custom AC bracket design. We shall see how it goes.
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So I remembered I bought a 3D scanner. Going to try it out for my custom AC bracket design. We shall see how it goes.
Ain't it cool when you suddenly remember you already have that great new tool you were thinking about??? :yay:
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I was out there with calipers and went “wait a minute…”
First test bracket is 3D printing now…
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I was out there with calipers and went “wait a minute…”
First test bracket is 3D printing now…
What type of scanner, and how well does it work?
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RevoPoint Inspire, and actually, surprisingly well. My "V1" bracket bolted directly to the AC compressor as printed, and was very close on the engine. I honestly think the only issue I had with it being perfect everywhere was some slight misalignment in my CAD. I'm printing "V2" right now.
Here's some shots of the work/bracket design:
Engine:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-241123152559-14103857.png)
With idler/compressor:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-241123152610-14105575.png)
Adapter bracket in place:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-241123152606-141042212.png)
Bracket on AC/Idler:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-241123152615-14106649.png)
And "v2" bracket finished and ready to print:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-241123152550-140971362.png)
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Damn, that's nice! I have the Creality lizard but gave no thought to the fact that I don't have a PC with a GPU so I start lagging massively about 10 seconds after I start scanning. Really a bummer because it works well for what it is. I wanted to digitize my engine bay while the engine was out but not looking like that'll happen now.
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I use a Macbook Pro (14" M1 Pro). It works fairly well, though 3d scanning is the first time since I bought it where i stopped and looked at what the newest/fastest ones cost, hah.
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I've used my every day laptop with a 3070gtx built in and had no issues. Battery life is quite good while tuning since the card isn't doing anything then.
Asus zenbook.
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Good lump choice, not read the whole thing, but have you seen dynotorques lt4 aston build? Chat that did my lt4 fd
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I have. I’ve actually chatted with Craig about his for some tips. Super nice guy.
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"V2" of my bracket was "close enough" to produce a final one in aluminum. I'm having the big plates cut out of aluminum by SendCutSend, and machining the central piece out of aluminum. Ordered the billet today and the SCS pieces last night, hopefully get that put together this weekend.
I received the Holley pieces and modified the water pump for clearance. I always love buying a brand new part, taking it out of the box and hitting it with the angle grinder...
I also found out, to my chagrin, that the Corvette alternator and one of the pulleys doesn't fit. That's a bummer, so another 400 bucks in accessory drive bits. Oh well.
The big aluminum brick I had cut by SendCutSend to tie the crossmember back together did come in yesterday, and I was able to pick up a torque tube/bellhousing. The engine mount pieces should be here this week. Once I get the engine mounts built, I'll pull the engine off the subframe, finish clearancing the subframe for the headers and dry sump fittings, then weld in the reinforcement, plate everything in, then I should be able to drop the engine back in place for a while and get started on the rear of the car.
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The 3D scanning looks pretty cool. glad it worked out. It seems like accessory drive always trips us up with swaps.
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Engine mount pieces came in, if I've still got any energy after Taekwondo class tonight, I'll start assembling them. I planned to yesterday, but 3 hours of training after 9 hours of the day job usually equals early bed time.
I did get the crank pulley swapped to an ATI with a swappable lower pulley to adjust boost. I'm not going to spin the blower super hard, since I have experience doing that in my GTP days and it just makes a heater. I have a 2.31" upper pulley (came with the junkyard engine) and a 5% over lower pulley. From my research, this should be okay with my bigger heat exchangers I'm planning to run, particularly if I put the on car on ~E50. If I port the blower later, I'll probably need to put a cam in it to get +30% on the fuel lobe with the stock pump. All of that combined should get me 700+ RWHP eventually, which is honestly all this chassis needs. I'd love to get 708 RWHP, just because the highest power factory Aston (other than the Valkyrie) is 707 flywheel...
The pieces to complete the accessory drive will be here before the weekend, so I'm hoping to get that machined and built, along with the subframe mods and engine mounts this weekend. That will let me actually bolt the engine into its final position, on its own mounts. Then I'll sanity check the torque tube clearance, and start on transmission mounts. I need those done to figure out torque tube length, and axle half-shafts, both of which I'll have to farm out, so I want to get on those ASAP to keep things moving forward.
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Progress on the subframe! New cross brace is in place and welded in and plated up. Pretty happy with how it came out, though some of the welds are "meh" visually. Hard to keep the welds perfect on the dirty casting metal. I'm fairly confident it won't fall off though.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-301123213142-141111681.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-301123213139-14107394.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-301123213141-141112269.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-301123213139-141071454.jpeg)
I wish I had one of those vapor blast chambers to clean all this stuff up perfectly, but I don't think I'm interested in it enough to spend the money to buy one, or pay someone to do it, so brakeleen and a powerwash is all she's getting.
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Looks great to me!
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Very tidy solution on the subframe! What alloy is the send/cut/send piece? The welds look really good to me.
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Love it!
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Very tidy solution on the subframe! What alloy is the send/cut/send piece? The welds look really good to me.
The SendCutSend piece and the plates I added are 6061. I'm not 100% sure what the OEM tube that Aston had in that spot was, but 6061 seemed logical. The pieces I added welded nice, it was just the grimy subframe that was a little tough to get nice.
Got one of the two motor mounts finished/painted installed today (along with proper length bolts to secure it to the block and the poly mounts to the subframe and motor mount).
Will get the other one done tomorrow, and tweak some clearance on the firewall (remove some heat shield and swap it to a thinner option) and (if it goes well) lock in the fore/aft and side/side engine location, then start on transmission.
The CNC machine is running the first program for my AC bracket. I generally cut SLOW on mine, to make sure my endmill stay alive, so it'll be done... eventually. LOL. Then a quicker 2nd program, and it's ready to start welding all of that together. That will finish my accessory drive, minus welding a couple fittings to the water pump to convert to AN instead of barbs.
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So two steps forward, 1/2 step back.
Got the motor mounts finished and the engine sitting on the subframe. Then installed the headers and remembered they are super close to the motor mounts. Well, they're about -2" from the motor mounts.
I pulled the passenger side mount back off and clearanced it, now that header is in place (woohoo). Driver side is much tighter. I did a couple initial rounds of clearancing, but still have a tiny bit of interference. It also hits the subframe (I expected this) so I've started working on doing some clearance work there as well. Nothing catastrophic, just a few hours of fiddling to get it in place. I did pull the heat shield off the firewall (also needed for clearance) and will sort out a new, thinner solution in a few small areas.
Hoping to get all of that stuff sorted out throughout this week and get the engine and torque tube position verified this weekend (as in, placed in the car), and then start modifying the rear crossmember/trans mounts. I expect that to be a little easier, overall, since the space back there is slightly larger.
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Hopefully sold the drivetrain today. Doing a partial trade with a vendor for cash + upgraded 2 piece rotors/pads.
I will get the headers and accessory drive fully buttoned up, and the engine in place, this weekend.
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Sweet. Moving right along!
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Been working on the accessory drive bit by bit as time permits.
I had to break the bracket down into 4 pieces to make it easier to manufacture; 3 flat pieces done by Send-Cut-Send and a bigger piece I cut on my CNC mill. I had a couple little struggles on the CNC (mostly just me being rusty on my path setups) but was able to get it sorted out. The flat pieces came out great and fit fine. I have the first 3 pieces all welded up, but fitment to the front cover was a little too tight and the compressor was too close to the rack. Both were considerations when I designed it however, yay for pre-planning.
To resolve this, I'm just going to weld my bracket to the Holley bracket the compressor is mounted in. That lets me rotate the bracket in tighter and lets me trim the area that interferes. So I'll weld that up tonight, and sort out the last piece of bracket that mounts the idler pulley and braces it to P/S bracket.
Once that's done, I'm going to cycle back to final clearance on the engine mount and subframe for the headers. That should finish fabrication up front beyond mounting the cooling system and dry sump/breather tanks.
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I need to learn how to weld aluminum, subframe looks great can't wait to see the accessory drive.
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Remember seeing the engine but wasn't sure if you found a tube.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/578311605516687/permalink/7623603257654118/?sale_post_id=7623603257654118&mibextid=Nif5oz
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I did find a tube. I have the whole drivetrain now (LT4, Late (2009+) C6Z torque tube, trans, diff, donor half-shafts).
Currently looking into who can shorten my torque tube. I found a possible vendor but it's $$$. We'll see if I can get a cheaper option, otherwise "it is what it is" from a cost perspective.
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It's a pretty niche requirement. I'd wager a pretty big lathe with the right setup.
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Yeah, I budgeted around 900-1200 but best quote so far is almost 3k.
I have an old friend that might be able to do it for a little better though.
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Band saw and a stick welder. $300 done.
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Progress!
AC bracket; if you look carefully it bolts to the side of the block as well as the rear of the P/S pulley area.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190122-1411474.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190123-141141392.jpeg)
Engine mounts. Driver (left) side is funky because of header clearance.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190133-141171033.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190135-141171214.jpeg)
In the engine bay, clearance to the chassis and steering linkage is excellent.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190142-141191546.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190200-141232216.jpeg)
A/C to rack clearance. It's about 1/4" all in.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190153-14121665.jpeg)
Engine fits in exactly one place. It's 1/4" from the firewall on the passenger (right) side as well. I can JUST snake the belts past this gap.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190156-141231130.jpeg)
Don't mind the loose supercharger belt, was sanity checking accessory mods:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-101223190207-14126485.jpeg)
On the topic of accessory mods, wow, what a pain in the ass this all was. Here's what I ended up with:
~90% of a Holley LT4 dry sump mid mount kit, bought in pieces. Water pump, alte. The alternator and P/S brackets, basically. I cut the A/C bracket off the top of the water pump housing. I used the rest of those parts as is. The A/C bracket, I designed, along with the idler to keep wrap and clearance sufficient. When I reinstalled, I found the blower drive idler fouled on the A/C clutch. Crap. Swapped that pulley for a smaller one that fouled... less. Then put that in the mill and took 5mm off the back side and now I have about 2mm clearance to the A/C clutch at the tightest. Good enough.
Must like the Mustang project, and turbo V8/RX7s, this car is a game of millimeters.
Video upcoming.
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Video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKAKk5-TTg
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Is the torque tube concentric? Maybe look at a shop that welds large industrial equipment like hydraulic shaft repair.
I know they're in Australia but to give you an idea the shop type I mean.
https://youtu.be/-9ljmgzPmfA?si=aqU0ziMlVsL-aIHA
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The torque tube basically needs the following:
1. Disassemble, basically remove bearings and propshaft (easy).
2. Remove weld from rear "bell" area, allowing the "bell" to be slid forward the appropriate amount.
3. Cut tube to appropriate length.
4. Weld back together. This requires the front/rear "bells" to be dead parallel and clocked correctly.
5. Shorten propshaft. This seems like it should also be pretty easy.
RPM Transmission (fairly local, about 90 minutes away) can do this, and their solution includes a full rebuild (new bearings, snap rings, couplers (guibo) and a new Driveshaft Shop propshaft). I can rebuild it myself and have the prop shortened locally, but it's the machining and welding that's the issue. We'll see what I can come up with. The thing with RPM is they have done this a bunch of times, so it might be worth it for the peace of mind that they know how to do it, instead of learning as they go.
In other news, I ordered up the next round of bits for the car.
Thermal Management:
Radiator - Will need to convert this to AN fittings, but it will fit the hole and is dual pass.
2x small oil coolers (-6AN fittings) to put in the rear bumper for diff and trans cooling. I don't want to deal with running lines to the front of the car for these and the air-to-oil coolers are big and in the way on the trans, so I'm going to pump the fluid straight through coolers.
A2W heat exchanger for the blower intercooler.
OEM quick connect adapters to 5/8" lines for the blower/heat exchanger.
Bosch OEM intercooler pump
Oil Cooler for... oil.
I'll get all of this in place (reusing the Aston AC condenser) and that will let me sort out what fittings I need to finish it out.
Also picked up:
P/S Pump and -6 weld bung for the factory lines. The Aston has a plate that bolts to the rack with the lines attached to it. I'll cut up the factory pressure line and TIG on a -6 fitting so that I can run a line to the GM pump. I think the Aston P/S reservoir will work fine, and I will reuse the OEM lines and cooler on the low pressure side.
Weighted shift knob (brushed stainless "ball" type). I'm a big fan of heavy shift knobs as I like the way it makes shifts feel.
2 piece floating brake rotors (front/rear). These save almost 30 lbs all-in.
Once I sort out the torque tube and transmission mounts, I'll get all of this stuff in place and then get hoses plumbing sorted and the shifter installed. Then I'll do the wiring and fuel system upgrades, then sort out the CANbus adaptation.
Also, for those interested, I estimate this conversion will cost about $25k USD start to finish. I pulled about 12.5K out of the Aston parts I sold, so that covered about half of the materials costs.
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Net cost of 12.5K for the drivetrain you'll end up with is downright cheap!
It's your money (obviously), but having RPM Transmission handle the work seems like the way to go.
So often, people in our hobby do things themselves not to save money, but because they can't find someone else they trust enough to do it for them. Letting RPM handle it lets you concentrate on the stuff that ONLY you -- realistically -- can do on this car and know that it's done right.
Just my .02, take it FWIW, I'm loving this build!
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Yeah, I have one local contact that is a tech at Lingenfelter and possibly the only person I know directly that is more fussy than me. If he can do it, great. If not, it's probably off to RPM.
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Thats pretty awesome. $12.5 is cheap really for what you are doing.
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Agreed. I'm sure I'll end up going over that a little, but mostly due to other upgrades/tweaks. I would like to put in poly bushings front/rear while it's apart, go to a Lithium battery, I upgraded to the 2 piece brake rotors, etc.
The other good news is my total cost invested in the car should hold fairly flat with its value. Obviously the LT4 swap limits the audience, but done well I think it adds value for the right buyer. That said, my goal here is to make this a "forever car" that's perfectly aligned to my tastes/goals. I want to do carbon fixed bucket (Cobra Nogaro) seats, finish a few more carbon pieces inside, and eventually wrap or respray it a color that is not black. Maybe add some air activated lift cups on the springs to make getting over speedbumps/etc. easier as well...
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Had a little time today to start on the transmission fitment. It's best described as... snug. Quite snug.
I cut the rear bar out of the subframe, which I'll put back in with interlocking tube clamps. The integrated pump rear cover on the diff fouls on the rear subframe cross brace, but there is a little room behind that, so I'll just cut the X brace out in that area and put a new one in slightly further back.
It's SUPER tight with the tunnel due to two small bumps. I used a small persuading device to add some clearance, which let me get the transmission (roughly) in place. I'm going to cut out the bumps in the floorplan, which is all bonded aluminum plate. The area I'm removing is about 4" square on each side. I'll form new plates with better clearance out of the same thickness 6061, then use 3M structural panel bond and structural rivets to put it back in place. That gets me a few inches more forward clearance, which is very useful.
It looks like the torque tube will need shortened about 5", but I'll validate this weekend. I expect I'll need to drop the engine back out and put the torque tube on the transmission to validate clearance of the "bell" area in the rear, but we'll see.
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Working through the tunnel and torque tube work. Man, this is fussy.
I dropped the engine first, so that I could put the torque tube in. To make the torque tube fit up easier, I cut off all of the harness clips that are on it stock. Before I cut the bumps out of the tunnel, I needed to move the seats forward, and pull the battery (behind the passenger seat). Then I could cut out the "bumps" in the tunnel. So now I have 4" x 6" holes in the tunnel behind the seats.
Before I can finish THAT project, I need to clearance the torque tube. The rear bell hits, which I expected as the Dynotorque car had the same issue. I just copied his system of cutting a couple chunks out of the bellhousing (it's not really a belhousing since it just has the splined attachment in it) until it clears. Then I cut some 1/4" plate to fill that in, and welded the inside and outside, then ground the outside back smooth where it's tight. I figure doing all of this work BEFORE I have the torque tube shortened makes sense as it'll allow it be trued up. I don't think it'll move much (it's a big hunk of cast aluminum vs. the welding I'm doing), but better safe than sorry.
Anywho, clearance of the torque tube is done, and I'm able to fit it all up in place. I built one fill plate for the torque tube rear "bell" and welded/ground it. I'll do the other one tomorrow, though I'm getting dangerously low on argon (that ONLY happens on weekends...). My 3M chassis bond and structural rivets came in today, so if I get through the torque tube work, I'll fight through forming those fill plates in and then bond them to the chassis to clear up the big ass holes in the tunnel. My intention now is to attach them on the inside of the car, to maximize clearance, as clearance is the name of the game.
Once ALL of that's done, and I've rechecked it fits with everything done, I'll drop everything back out (yet again) and put the engine back in, then put the transmission in its verified position from the previous step, measure the needed torque tube length, and then I can take it down to Indy to get reworked. When that's gone, I can start on the cooling system, power steering, oil scavenge and breather systems.
Depending on how long it takes, I'll get going on electrical as well. I really need the torque tube back so that I can mount the whole drivetrain up BEFORE I build transmission mounts, and I need transmission mounts before I start sorting halfshafts. The good news is I have plenty of bits available to keep me busy for 4-6 weeks. The half shafts are really the last part that "scares" me a bit as I don't have a solution for that, which means I don't have a cost estimate. That's never good news in my experience.
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Torque tube "bell" modifications are finished; clearance is sufficient and the cuts have been plated in with 1/4" 6061 and welded inside and out.
Tunnel mods are also done, with plates made to fit, then installed with 3M structural adhesive and 1/4" rivets.
None of that was fun. It was anti-fun. This week, if I get a chance, I'll do a final pass on torque tube clearance validation, then put the engine back in and validate torque tube length, and get the tube down to Indy in a week or two (depending on when RPM is open).
I'm much more excited to start on the cooling systems. I'm not that excited to drop the rear subframe to do the bracing work on that. That also doesn't look that fun. LOL
I also started ordering all the fittings for the oil and cooling systems. Tight radius -12 fittings are freaking expensive. LOL
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Check out the Radium low profile swivels. I'm using the -10 on the oil cooler and -8 on the trans. Neither seem to have any flow or leak issues after multiple heat cycles.
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I wanted the Radium swivels for the oil system, but they don't make a -12. :(
I've been a big fan of all of their stuff I've used so far. Most of my fuel/breathing stuff is either Radium, Deatschwerks or Injector Dynamics at this point. No complaints with any of them, other than ID pricing... LOL
I'm using an XRP ultra low profile 90* adapter (-12 ORB to -12 male) for the oil "OUT" on the pan (pump output), and an XRP low profile high-flow 90* -12 hose end on the "IN" side. The dry sump tank has comparatively more clearance and just needs a couple 90* standard hose ends. I'm using Fragola 3000 series for the oil lines themselves.
I did pick up a Radium dual catch can for the breathing/PCV system on the car.
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Appreciate your work here Blake, this is pretty cool. :cheers:
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Thanks! I'm out of town this weekend for Christmas, but will be back with some extra free time (compared to normal) next week/weekend. Hoping to make good progress!
I got a decent deal on a DSX billet lid for the blower. I have an earlier LT4, which has a lower lid that apparently makes less power, so this should add 20-25 HP (at least the internet says so). My biggest draw was not having it say "Corvette" under the hood. I do like the subtle "LT4" cast in the intercooler coolant manifold though. I'm hoping to make this a "if you know, you know" under the hood where nothing is particularly obvious from a "not stock" standpoint. Anyone attentive will notice AN hoses, billet/fabricated parts, etc. but I expect a lot of people won't immediately realize it's an LS/not the OEM engine.
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I am sitting here reading all this in my living room with my wife sitting across from me looking at her phone...and while watching the video with the volume low she suddenly looks up and says, "Hey! Are you watching porn!?!"
I just look up with the most serious face and say, "Yep." 🤣
Of course she is like WTF and I flip my phone around laughing showing her your video Blake.
She just rolled her eyes and got up haha!
I am really enjoying this build man.
Will be such a unique and special car Blake. It really echoes the same charisma and uniqueness that our RX-7's bring about. Obviously this is much nicer & refined but the "spirit" definitely resonates the same frequency.
Keep up the great work man.
American James Bond ;)
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A standing joke with me and my wife:
Her: What are you looking at on the net?
Me: Porn.
Her: So, car parts again. Porn would probably be cheaper.......
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LOL, you guys are cracking me up. :D
This accessory drive, man, what a pain in the ass. Clearance is TIGHT all over, but it fits. New lid is on, and AN fittings are welded to the thermostat housing and water pump. I like that the LT water pump is separate from the housing, so I don't have to worry about redoing mods, welding, etc. when the pump needs replaced.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133220-14127342.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133219-14127860.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133228-141381017.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133225-14136501.jpeg)
Torque tube clearance mods. It looks ugly in pictures, but actually looks okay in person. Light reflecting weird or whatever. This wasn't the most fun welding job ever.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133229-141381202.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133232-141402018.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-291223133231-14140816.jpeg)
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Next up, cooling system.
I had quite a few ideas on how I wanted this to work, but here's the basic concept:
Ordered a radiator that roughly matched the stock unit, but was dual pass, passenger side inlet/outlet, to better fit the LT4 coolant layout. Cut the barbs off and welded in -16 AN top and -20 AN bottom. I still need to add a -6 ORB fitting for the expansion tank. I bolted the Chevy Volt cooling fan up after a tiny bit of clearancing work.
I then machined small aluminum blocks, drilled/tapped them, bolted them to the OEM Aston AC condenser and then welded them to the radiator.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124180127-141582395.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124180126-141581102.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124180129-141601401.jpeg)
The stack is very close in overall size to the OEM setup, and fits roughly in the same place. The OEM isolators won't work, but the bolt-in radiator "crossmember" that came on the car was close enough. I cut up some hockey pucks, added rivnuts to the crossmember, and bolted the pucks in to isolate/locate the bottom of the radiator. It's not stupid if it works. ;)
Next up was the oil cooler. The car had a stock one that wouldn't fit my needs well, so I picked up a basic aftermarket bar/plate unit that was similar in size to OEM. The OEM until also had a duct that routed the hot air out the bottom of the front undertray, so I figured I'd copy that design as well. The stock piece was plastic and a little fragile, so I made the new one out of aluminum, and bolted it to the radiator crossmember. The upper mounts for the oil cooler mount to the crash bar (more rivnuts) and the lower mount is the fabricated crossbar you see in the pictures below.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174817-141422223.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174816-141421792.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174818-14152439.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174823-14156148.jpeg)
The oil cooler hoses are also routed. I'll add some heat protection and chafing protection/routing control later, but they're in the correct area at least.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174819-141521928.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174821-141542113.jpeg)
This last remaining gap is where the heat exchanger for the supercharger will slot in. Hopefully I'll have that finished up next week, then build the radiator hoses, finish the power steering lines, and start sorting out dry sump tank mounting and supercharger reservoir/hoses.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-010124174821-141541780.jpeg)
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A standing joke with me and my wife:
Her: What are you looking at on the net?
Me: Porn.
Her: So, car parts again. Porn would probably be cheaper.......
Me: But not nearly as satisfying. LOL
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HA! Exactly right Cobranut!
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Cooling system layout looks wicked with all the ducting, it looks like so much more room than the cramped FD bay... but still pretty tight. Awesome progress.
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The factory design makes the cooling system work easy, overall. A lot of the car is built like a racecar or very fancy kit car, with lots of aluminum extrusions and rivnuts setup to re-purpose Jaguar/Ford parts. Makes it easy to adapt to my will.
The front and rear 1/3 of the car have full ducting/bracing flat floor plates that bolt on/off. Makes life easier for ducting it all. The middle of the car is also flat-ish, it looks a lot like a late model Corvette, but with even more aluminum everywhere.
Engine bay has tons of room for everything but the engine. I had to pull some sound deadening off the firewall and trim the heat shielding. I then put gold heat reflection foil on the whole firewall and transmission tunnel (err, torque tube tunnel) then reinstalled as much of the OEM heat shield as I could to help reject as much heat as possible. Clearance for the engine is about 5/16" to the rack, 1/4" to the firewall, 5/16" to the crossmember and 3/8" to the cowl. So the engine can basically go EXACTLY here, and nowhere else. Headers have miles of clearance, other than some subframe modding in one area, and they're well clear of the steering, etc.
I'll end up with a BIG intake tube to make sure the LT4 can breathe, but I don't think it'll be too bad. I'd like to add some brake cooling ducts up front at some point as well.
Once the heat exchanger is mounted I'll sort out where hoses need to go, then probably order some high density foam to seal it all up around the edges and force the air to go exactly where I want it. That's how Aston did it stock and makes sense overall.
I have a spot for the dry sump tank, and I think I can reuse the OEM power steering reservoir, along with about 90% of the OEM AC lines and the entire low pressure power steering setup (lines + cooler) so that saves a lot of work. I -might- be able to make the OEM coolant reservoir work, which would really make my life easier. If all that goes well I just need to stuff the Radium breather tanks somewhere and fit the intercooler pump and tank, both of which will probably go where the passenger side airbox was stock (OEM it had dual airboxes).
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The factory design makes the cooling system work easy, overall. A lot of the car is built like a racecar or very fancy kit car, with lots of aluminum extrusions and rivnuts setup to re-purpose Jaguar/Ford parts. Makes it easy to adapt to my will.
The front and rear 1/3 of the car have full ducting/bracing flat floor plates that bolt on/off. Makes life easier for ducting it all. The middle of the car is also flat-ish, it looks a lot like a late model Corvette, but with even more aluminum everywhere.
Engine bay has tons of room for everything but the engine. I had to pull some sound deadening off the firewall and trim the heat shielding. I then put gold heat reflection foil on the whole firewall and transmission tunnel (err, torque tube tunnel) then reinstalled as much of the OEM heat shield as I could to help reject as much heat as possible. Clearance for the engine is about 5/16" to the rack, 1/4" to the firewall, 5/16" to the crossmember and 3/8" to the cowl. So the engine can basically go EXACTLY here, and nowhere else. Headers have miles of clearance, other than some subframe modding in one area, and they're well clear of the steering, etc.
I'll end up with a BIG intake tube to make sure the LT4 can breathe, but I don't think it'll be too bad. I'd like to add some brake cooling ducts up front at some point as well.
Once the heat exchanger is mounted I'll sort out where hoses need to go, then probably order some high density foam to seal it all up around the edges and force the air to go exactly where I want it. That's how Aston did it stock and makes sense overall.
I have a spot for the dry sump tank, and I think I can reuse the OEM power steering reservoir, along with about 90% of the OEM AC lines and the entire low pressure power steering setup (lines + cooler) so that saves a lot of work. I -might- be able to make the OEM coolant reservoir work, which would really make my life easier. If all that goes well I just need to stuff the Radium breather tanks somewhere and fit the intercooler pump and tank, both of which will probably go where the passenger side airbox was stock (OEM it had dual airboxes).
Such a cool build Blake. I'm looking forward to seeing this thing on the road. :drive:
Your suggestion for foam board has me thinking I may use it for ducting in my racecar.
It looks like it would be easy to cut and bend, and cheap to replace in the event of damage.
I looked at it online, and there seem to be a lot of different types.
What are you planning to use?
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I explained that badly. Just foam tape for my uses, to fill some ~1” gaps.
I’ve never considered using foam board, though there are probably some kinds that would work well.
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Thanks. They make some with plastic facing.
I've also seen corrugated plastic, similar to cardboard, with smooth plastic on each side.
That might work as well. Just thinking of what would be cheap and easy to fab, to use in damage prone areas like the nose and tail.
It's probably also less likely than aluminum to damage a cooler or radiator if it gets crunched.
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Yeah, I've seen some SCCA guys make undertrays out of aluminum/plastic sign board materials. It seems like a solid option.
On the "escalation" front, it turns out the later Vantage has a faster steering rack, which would be kinda nice. I think I'll add that to the "Stage 2" list, along with new coilovers and poly bushings all around.
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Very interested to see what this thing can do.
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So the mounts for the heat exchanger changed like 4x during the process, but it came out really well eventually.
I basically mirrored the design from the AC condenser, with machined blocks tapped and welded to the radiator, then brackets that run up to the heat exchanger. Fitment worked out well and it's easy to service/change later if I ever need to. The brackets also stay out of the way of airflow. I don't have good photos, but I do have the power steering lines finished up. Lower radiator hose is also completed.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-070124211731-141611283.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-070124211742-14163966.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-070124211730-141611663.jpeg)
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Finished up the upper/lower radiator hoses. -16/-20 AN hoses are a real pain.
Dropped off the torque tube at RPM to get it modified. Should be back in 4-6 weeks.
In the meantime, working on mounting up the dry sump tank now, then finishing the rest of the coolant lines, breather lines, etc. Basically everything but wiring. Then... wiring.
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I messed with some -20. Mega pain. So stiff too.
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It leaves very little room for error, for sure. There is always enough time between my "Let's do AN fittings for the whole car" episodes for me to forget what a gigantic pain in the ass that is...
I am about 95% sorted on the rest of the cooling system now. I'll be able to reuse the Aston Martin degas and overflow tanks, which is great news. I'm going to pull the radiator back out this weekend and add some bungs for bleeding it and recirculating the degas tank (-4 up top for bleed, and -10 on the bottom for the recirc). I'm switching to using ORB fittings on the radiator for these ports after I had some thread issues on the -20 male fitting on the radiator last week. I was able to fix it, but it would have sucked to cut it off/reweld it. From now on, I'll put ORBs in the radiator and just bolt fittings in for future servicability.
Once the ports are in the radiator, I'll get the lines built to connect to the factory degas tank and the LT4 "cylinder air bleed" port. I also need to put in the fittings to finish the heater hoses and route the AC lines. I'm going to get some adapter fittings to convert the OEM AC lines to universal fittings to bolt to the Sanden SD7, but that should be pretty easy. The factory PS tank is also going to work fine.
Last for "this week's goals" is to final mount the dry sump tank. I picked up some brackets for it and was able to add some foam tape and mock it in place yesterday. It will fit in the same spot the stock tank did, which is nicely out of the way of the intake plumbing I was hoping to use. Best of all, I can just add 4 rivnuts to the Aston front core support structure and bolt it right in place. Easy-peasy. It also lets me place my Radium air/oil separators in a convenient location, and keep the routing simple from both the dry sump tank and cylinder head breather ports. I'm still planning to recirc the air back to the intake tract, post MAF.
Hoping to have all engine bay plumbing, minus the supercharger cooling system, done before end of January, and finish wiring/supercharger plumbing in February. That will leave interior wiring, fuel system and trans mounts/half-shafts for March, with an early May "completion date" planned. We'll see how that goes...
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Waiting on some parts, and ran out of welding gas (left my tank open and I have a very slow leak... whoops), so I'm working on wiring for a bit.
Have the main harness broken out, and about half cleaned up of extra circuits. I created all of the spreadsheets for finishing the engine harness and I'm about 95% done sorting out how to integrate into the Aston chassis side.
I have a system I'm accustomed to, which you'll see in the spreadsheet screenshots below. Just basic tables and color coding/connector labeling. Trying to utilize stock wiring and connectors as much as possible, with just a few quick connects to the engine harness. I'll also have quick connects on the heater hoses, fuel lines, etc, so that I can get the engine out quickly in the future if needed (hopefully, not needed often).
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230124095007-141641096.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230124095006-141641451.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230124095010-14172288.png)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-230124095011-141721500.png)
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I've been away from the forum for way too long.
Looking forward to your build Blake.
Looks like the "When will he F- with it pool" was about 24 months. :D
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In the "Well, that's cool" bucket: I am on a couple of Aston groups on Facebook, and today someone from the Gaydon factory (where my Aston was built) messaged me offering help with electronics and such if I need it. That's pretty darn cool, gotta love the internet. :D
I'm working on the fuel system a little this weekend, along with the wiring. I'm going to snake a hardline behind the blower, under the cowl, to shorten how much flexible line I have on the car. It'll terminate in a bulkhead fitting above the passenger valve cover (basically opposite of where it exits stock). The Aston feeds fuel on the passenger side, so this will let me run an ~18" soft line up from the hard lines (which will be 3/8 anodized aluminum with AN tube nuts) and make it easy to service. I'm going to put the flex fuel sender behind the blower because it fits there and I'm tight on space in that area. LOL
The hard line will terminate at the rear subframe, just like the Aston did stock, and I'll have a tee fitting with a port for a GM fuel pressure feed line sensor to keep the ECU and GM Fuel Pump Driver Module happy. I'm going to PWM the fuel feed with an OEM controller just like GM did, albeit with a little bigger pump and an MSD booster to pull the voltage up a bit. Should be plenty to keep the HPFP fed and let the direct injection work in a factory like manner.
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Pretty damn cool Aston Tech's are lending free expertise!
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Traveling this week/weekend for work and martial arts, so all I can do is plan and order parts.
I did get a bunch done last weekend, but it's wiring, so it's basically invisible, hah. I am extending the ECU end of the harness (which was also damaged on my donor engine). I want to put the ECU in the fender well like Aston did, and it was about 6" short, so I'm adding about 12" of length to the harness as well as pulling out all of the extra wiring, adding flex fuel, etc. So far 2 of the 3 connectors are fully extended/replaced/re-pinned/tested, and I'm about 1/2 done with connector 3. When that's done, I'll add the wiring to the harness for the intercooler pump power, relocate the MAP sensor, integrate power for the flex fuel sensor, etc. Then add the interconnects to the chassis side. Finally, I can retest it all one more time, and loom it up/install it on the engine.
I think (operative word) that's the last thing that needs to have the engine out of the car to build. I will need the torque tube out to do the shifter mounts, as they need relocated to properly align with the Aston opening/height, and adjust the length of the linkage. In theory when that's finished, the whole drivetrain should be able to be final installed in the chassis, and I can start finalizing all of the installation and sort out the transmission mounts, fuel pump upgrade and half-shaft measurements.
So far, so good.
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This weekend is (theoretically) pretty clear, so hoping to get a bunch of work done. I've been collecting parts the last 2 weeks, so hopefully I can make forward progress.
I got a call from RPM Transmissions about my torque tube. They were able to finish it and Driveshaft Shop finished the propshaft ahead of schedule, so it's ready to go. Picking that up tomorrow morning (handily I was driving by their office for a work event anyway). I'm excited to get that in my hands as it's one of the only 2 "outsource" pieces I needed, with the other being the custom half-shafts.
I found some Prothane "universal body mounts" that I think are going to work well for transmission mounts. They're basically big slabs of polyurethane with a center sleeve that "floats" internally. I'll sandwich the transmission bracket in between the slabs of bolt it to the stock subframe transmission mount, and just extend the bracket to pick up the stock diff mounts. It'll be some fiddly fab, but not too bad.
This weekend's goal is finishing the wiring harness mods and adding some bungs to the radiator to finalize the last of the cooling system fabrication. Then maybe start some more fuel system work and mock up the full drivetrain with the new torque tube if there is time.
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Excited to see the power plant whole.
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I got overly excited and ordered a cam kit, which on these engines requires an AFM delete and VVT limiter. So I need to tear the heads off, and the accessories I just finished, and the crank pulley.
...escalation is a hell of a drug.
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What are the cam specs?
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I got overly excited and ordered a cam kit, which on these engines requires an AFM delete and VVT limiter. So I need to tear the heads off, and the accessories I just finished, and the crank pulley.
...escalation is a hell of a drug.
Blake, you have an illness. LOL :poke: :poke:
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It's a Tick "Stage 2" blower cam, ground by Cam Motion: 229/244| .621”/.630” | LSA118+4 | +32% Fuel Pump Lobe
I was really after the +32% fuel lobe as I think my upper/lower + lid + headers + intake will be really pushing the capacity of the stock pump, even with a low side upgrade. This should get me headroom, and hopefully let me run some amount of E. If I decided to go further in the future, I'll add some higher flow (+30%) injectors and port the blower. I'm also glad to get rid of the AFM (cylinder deactivation), upgrade to ARP cylinder head fasteners and put in upgraded pushrods/valve springs/bronze rocker trunnions.
I don't know that I'll go that far, but I definitely don't see a need to take this chassis further than that, as I'd be pushing the limits of the trans/diff/torque tube/etc. If I can eventually get it to 708 RWHP, I'll be happy (the most power normal production Aston Martin is the DBX 707, which is 707 flywheel, so I want to make 1 more HP at the tires...)
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That'll be a very nice driving cam but still pull well up top. I don't think you'll have any issues breaking 700whp by a fair margin.
I'll be curious how your valve train noise level comes out. My Cammotion cam is rather loud. When the exhaust is closed it's by far the loudest part of my car. They say they are very stable which seems true but the ramp rates are quite high.
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Good to know on the valve train noise. We'll see if it's louder than the blower and direct injection. At least I also have valves I can open if I just want to hear exhaust noise. :D
This weekend ended up way busier than I had planned, so I've not made as much progress as I wanted. I did get the following wiring tasks done:
All 3 ECU side connectors have been relocated/replaced/repinned/tested.
Built all 3 chassis <-> engine harness connectors.
MAF/IAT connector relocated from passenger side top to driver side bottom.
Added flex fuel sensor.
Added power/control circuitry for brake booster vacuum pump.
Added power/control circuitry for intercooler pump.
Removed wiring from harness for emissions bits I'm not reusing.
Rerouted harness for better firewall clearance.
I need to add one more connector for the driver side lower "connection area" that will break out for AC pressure, radiator fan PWM control and the intercooler and vacuum pumps. Once that's done I'll finish dressing the harness in, then pull it and wrap it with braided split-loom and Tesa tape and it should be ready. Then I think I'll mark the engine position and pull it off the subframe as the cam swap will be a lot easier on the stand.
Then I think I need to pull the rear suspension so that I can start preparing for the subframe mods/transmission mounts. Excited to hopefully have the engine permanently mounted in the next couple weeks. Then it's just fuel lines, some coolant stuff and a little more wiring work before I can fire it up.
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Wiring progress:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150224165424-141812488.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150224165427-141811856.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-150224165435-141832116.jpeg)
Got the flywheel and pilot bearing taken care of. Mostly because I need to be able to lock the crank in place during cam install a few times. Also snagged the Gen V specific tools I need: High pressure fuel pump alignment tool, oil pump alignment tool, flywheel lock, valve seal install tool, etc.
This weekend I should be able to get the rear suspension pulled off in preparation for subframe upgrades (Vantage roadster shear plates), and maybe get some progress on that. I need to figure out the shifter location as well and MAYBE start on the trans/diff mounts. We'll see.
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Good to see the TESA tape. Seems most cars these days have such shitty loom material that it just crumbles after a few years of heat cycles. Not my Lexus LS with 220,000miles if course but you know anything Chrysler or GM.
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Yeah, TESA makes life easier, long term. I am using the same heavy wrap/fabric stuff that GM used for the protection as well, versus split loom/mesh stuff. It's a little heavier but seems to do a good job of abrasion protection.
I got the engine off the subframe and the "tear down" part of the cam swap. Wow, Gen V stuff is a real PITA. Have to tear it all the way down to a short block to do a cam, thanks to the AFM delete and gigantic variable vane oil pump.
Anyway, that's done, I also cleaned the carbon off the pistons and checked out the cylinder walls. Everything looks beautiful internally. I prepped the block surfaces for new gaskets as well. I had a big delivery from Tick, but it didn't have the cam or the valve springs, so I'm a bit stuck at the moment. When that comes, I'll do the springs and prep the heads, then get the cam in and start putting the pump/pan/covers/etc. on.
I did get the rocker trunion upgrade done. That was tedious but easy. The 20 ton press makes it a pretty painless process. Hopefully the parts come this week, and I can get it put together this weekend between tournaments and birthday parties.
My "busy season" in martial arts is firing up next month, with 4 tournaments in 5 weeks, then training for districts/team USA tryouts/world finals after that, so I need to keep the hammer down and make progress daily, so that this thing is back on the road this summer. I guess if it takes longer than expected I can drive the Mustang at least.
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Quick update:
Cam came in, so I was able to build the shortblock mostly back up. Still backordered on my VVT disable kit, but I found another vendor that had it in stock and ordered one, so I guess I'll have a spare. I don't have time to wait "indeterminate amount of time" for this part.
In less optimal news, I had a stupid moment installing the lash cap on my fuel pump lifter. It was snug so I popped it in my press to seat it fully. And proceeded to crack the lifter. Doh! Ordered a new lash cap and lifter and this time I'll just clearance the lifter where the lash cap seats to make sure it seats fully. Anyway...
Should be able to get the engine mostly, or entirely, back together this weekend and get going on those transmission mounts and such.
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Ugh! Glad to know crap like that happens to someone besides me. Maybe freeze the lifter / heat the lash cap (or vice versa?) before assembling?
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I did it. And just before it failed I thought “man, this is dumb”. Oh well. Hahaha
I’m gonna to use a dremel to take a few thou off the lifter where the lash cap hits, if it hits. It sounds like it’s common to need to do so, partyin earlier engines. I’ll have a brand new lifter now, so maybe it’ll just fit.
I’m not super bummed to have a new lifter for this anyway, the cam and other lifters were new anyway.
I did get the phaser lock installed tonight and the cam timed. Will get the pushrods in tomorrow and put the covers on, minus the valley. Should be no problem to get this back in the car this weekend and get started on those transmission and shifter mounts.
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New parts came in, and I was able to just pop the lash cap on the new lifter by hand easily. Verified clearances stack up properly with the 0.060" lash cap. Engine is now all back together. I'm installing the accessories and cleaning up the subframe now, and then I should be able to put the drivetrain fully together for the first time, figure out how the hell I get it all in the chassis at once without an engine lift table, and then build those transmission mount adapters. :D
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Very nice. Just wish there were more DI injector ECU options. Would love an LT 427 NA.
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Yeah, I'd rather not be messing with an OEM ECU, but can't justify the cost/expense of aftermarket DI stuff right now.
On another note, my torque tube turns out to be from a C5, not a C6. This means that my C6 slave cylinder that I upgraded to billet sleeve, AN4, etc. doesn't work. Poop. C5 slave cylinder ordered...
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Plate came in:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-180324112122-141841578.jpeg)
Drivetrain is fully in, on it's own mounts. Well, it was. Now it's on the floor to mount the shifter, adjust shift linkage, add a little more clearance on the rear of the torque tube, and add clutch hydraulics. Oh and modify the rear subframe. But, it does fit!
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-180324112128-14198970.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-180324112125-141961070.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-180324112125-14196799.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-180324112122-141841431.jpeg)
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That purple nail polish is definitely your color :D
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Ok, maybe not enough coffee for me yet today, but I can't decipher the plate.
The drivetrain looks like it was always built that way. Well done! Yup, love the nail polish, you rock it.
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Ya'll hatin' on me being stylish.
I thought that plate was easy, haha. Maybe it's not and that's how I got it past the BMV.
BLDDY EL == Bloody Hell
Because, British car.
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Plate: Perfect!
DMV plate story: 30 years ago my brother put a Ford 302 in a Triumph GT6. Went to DMV, asked for this plate: 1FNUNIT
Old lady behind the counter said "Nope! That's obscene!" My brother: "It says 'One fun unit', what do YOU think it says?"
Old lady turned red, stammered a bit, then gave him the plate!
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Haha, that's a pretty great story.
My friend used to have "GO ON 3" which the BMV gave him some crap about, but let through.
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What is going on here now?
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Just in case you're not aware, you can do an EMTRON KV8 and a pair of BRZ injector drivers for a V8. Emtron supports DI with an external driver.
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Just in case you're not aware, you can do an EMTRON KV8 and a pair of BRZ injector drivers for a V8. Emtron supports DI with an external driver.
Holley, Emtron and Link (and Motec of course, if I want to wipe out my 401k) can do it, with the right add-ons. Here's where I went with the process:
Holley: $3000+ for a Terminator X Max. Limited ability to fuss with the direct injection side in the future, some debate around managing drivability on modded stuff with the DI. Seems best suited for stock swaps in muscle cars.
Emtron: $4000+ with the drivers. Need to do advanced modeling of pump/injection timing on a dyno.
Link: $4000+ for G5 Voodoo Pro with the drivers. Need to do advanced modeling of pump/injection timing on a dyno.
Motec: $7000+. Need to do advanced modeling of pump/injection timing on a dyno.
If I had a tuner that could deal with the Emtron or Link locally, and had experience/track record getting them going on a Gen V, I'd probably have gone that way. I don't have the depth or experience to greenfield a DI tune, and I expect getting someone in the US that could would mean shipping my car somewhere and adding another $4-5k in getting it there/tune/back. At that point, I'm realistically $8-10K into a standalone that doesn't really do much the OEM ECU can't with HP Tuners and an external wideband.
I don't particularly like HP Tuners (had a bad experience with the company years ago) but a stock ECU + HPT seems like a slam dunk for cost/benefit. I used to work with a guy who is a top tier Gen V tuner with HPT who is semi-local (90 minutes away) and has owned Gen V records on Cadillacs and Corvettes a bunch of times. That was my end deciding factor. I'll be able to get the car running/driving fine myself with HPT, and then trailer it over to him to properly dial it in. At least that's the theory, anyway. :D
To be clear, I appreciate the feedback/info. Just thought I'd share my thought process with ending up on tuned stock ECU. If Haltech had a good DI solution, I'd probably have looked a lot harder at that option as well, just because I like their company/support.
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I love the plate and knew what it meant instantly! :cheers:
Exciting to see how it goes, I think your spot on with the GM ecu this time. Keep it simple sometimes is the best. Still Curious what canbus issues you will have/solve.
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Thanks for that Blake. The drivers are cheap on eBay. Under $150 but like you said, modeling the pump timing is a pain. The injection timing not so much since your aren't overly concerned with emissions.
I built an L15B for a guy that is going to do time attack in his Fit. 600whp MID sleeve 1.6L. The link g4+ GDI was the only option but we got it to work. Link had done all the hard work. Have you talked to them (or EMTRON) about what their plans are? The LT is the future then LS parts dry up.
At the end of the day, OE is good for the wallet, just stinks you cannot do all the go fast stuff like TC.
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Right now I'm just continuing to bug Haltech, and if they get GDI going, and an LT "base map" I can build from, I'll probably look into it then. Mostly because I already run their stuff on the Mustang and don't want to learn yet another system, haha.
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Progress. Lacking pictures currently, but lots of progress!
Shifter is in place, linkage is done. I machined new brackets for the shifter and located/welded them to the torque tube. I still need to machine some spacers to set height, but I'll do that once it's in the car. Linkage was easy enough to setup, and the shifter feels great. I also added some more clearance to the rear "bell" area on the torque tube to make sure I have enough room in the tunnel. I should have PLENTY now.
I also tore apart the rear suspension and dropped the subframe. This let me clean up the subframe (and suspension) and do the modifications to clear the diff pump on the transmission. I braced up the subframe, cut out the rear "x" on it, and welded in a new one spaced back 1" to get the clearance I needed. I also finish welding up the drop out on the bottom rear of the crossmember where the transmission would hit. Finally I added tabs to the subframe to let me install a later model Aston Martin Vantage roadster/S "shear plate" that braces the subframe to the chassis for better rigidity. I had previously setup the chassis side mounting for it, and added one up front.
Along with the shear plates, I have the upgraded 2 piece brake discs and DB9 GT/Vantage GT swaybars, which should be a solid handling improvement. I'd like to add some poly bushings to the arms all around before I reassemble it all as well.
Next up is bolting the subframe back in, mounting a few things in the engine bay while the engine is out, then getting the wiring harness on the engine and mounting the drivetrain for hopefully the last time before it runs. Then finish wiring, plumbing and fuel system.
The last real fab work is just sorting the rear half-shafts, which shouldn't be too bad, just fussy.
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No more Youtube vids?
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I need to actually make a video. The process slows me down, and I've got deadlines, so video is usually the first thing I skip.
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I need to actually make a video. The process slows me down, and I've got deadlines, so video is usually the first thing I skip.
I get it, filming is easy for me, its the dang editing I don't like. You were good on camera so I appreciated them when you put them out.
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I’ll get another put together shortly. I was wanting to get the chassis fab done and drivetrain in as the next step. That should be in the next week or two.
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So, I think I mentioned before that I ended up with a C5 torque tube and C6 bellhousing. It was supposed to all be C6 stuff, but whatever. Since I'm deep into this torque tube due to the custom length and Driveshaft Shop custom propshaft, I'm not going to swap that out.
The issue I found is that the clutch hydraulic stack up was problematic, with too tight of tolerance between the slave and pressure plate (insufficient air gap). I originally had WAY too little gap but that was due to the C6 hydraulic setup I originally bought. Went to a C5 slave and my stack is VERY close, but still a little too tight. So what do I do? Well, I -assume- a C5 bellhousing would solve it, but that's annoying and expensive. So instead I measured the alignment dowels and found them to have >3/8" of engagement. Same with the input shaft to bearing pilot bearing (plenty of engagement). So my solution?
3d scan the mating surface and model a small spacer to push the gap out 0.125" to get my gap right. I did a quick scan, modeled a spacer in CAD and 3d printed a mock up. Gotta love 3d scanning, because the spacer literally snap fit into place on the dowels. I ordered up a couple different thicknesses from SendCutSend so that I can dial it in perfectly, but this should solve the issue and not move the rest of the drivetrain back enough to matter for my purposes.
This stuff is why these projects take forever...
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pretty cool that we can do things like that now though! I am putting a stupid amount of effort into running the shift knob that I want in my car lol. I need to have a part milled for that now. I modelled it up and then had that 3D printed to test fit it to confirm my model worked. Now I need to have it made out of metal!
What do you have for a 3D scanner?
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Agreed, 3d printing alone was a huge thing, but then adding 3d scanning to it, and easy services like SendCutSend is just crazy from a garage mechanic perspective.
I've got a simple Revo Inspire. Works surprisingly well if you prep parts properly prior to scanning.
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Sharp thinking Blake! I never knew about SendCutSend, thank you! That will be handy in the future :yay:
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SendCutSend is dangerously addicting, just a warning, haha!
On the topic of constant scope creep, I ordered a full set of poly bushings for the car. There was an occasional clunk in the front, and the car is 17 years/~60K miles old, so fresh bushings can't hurt.
Since I have to mess with the suspension more, and I just cleaned/painted both subframes, I decided to soak the suspension arms in detergent/water and scotch brite them all as well. Not trying to polish/show car it, just clean the crap off of all of it so it's nice and clean to reassemble/work on later. I'll coat it all in Boeshield T9 when I'm done to help make it easier to clean later. :)
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Time to buy a vapor hone!!!
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I have yet to use sendcutsend yet, I haven't needed a 2D part yet. I have a part I want to have made but it's more of a lathe or mill job.
Edit*
I just ordered a part from Xometry that is a mill/lathe job. I got a link to get someone $50 of their first order and that will give me a $50 credit as well. https://blue.mbsy.co/6DsBmr
So if you need something 3D made save $50 with my link there.
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1. I want a vapor hone, just can't justify the price vs. how little I expect to actually use it. I'd rather spend that money to get a CNC lathe or plasma table I think.
2. Xometry seems cool, as well. I would like to try some 3d printed metal stuff from there eventually. I can CNC small/medium stuff and 3D print in fairly fancy plastics, so I haven't had a ton of need for them overall yet.
On the Aston, I have the clutch hydraulics stacked and installed. I have what should be sufficient input shaft engagement on the pilot (0.4") and I have .150" of air gap on the slave cylinder now, so that all matches recommendations. Torque tube final clearancing is done, and the shifter linkage is painted, pinned and installed.
Next up is getting a few things mounted in the bay that are easier with the engine out, then put the harness back on, and tweak fuel line routing, then I can "final install" the drivetrain and finish cleaning/bushing upgrading/reinstalling the suspension.
Then some oil/coolant hoses, wiring, fuel lines/pump upgrade, and half-shafts.
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Xometry is great. They're more of a broker than a work house. They bid out nearly any CNC or 3D printer job to a network of vendors and quote instantly. Their web interface is really nice and makes uploading CAD and quoting different manufacture methods rearly easy. They even do mold making and injection molding production part runs. I spent over $10k with them last year for work 3D prints alone.
Their MJF parts are my favorite. Glass-filled nylon MJF prints are extremely hard to beat for cost, strength, and turnaround. I also print a ton of polypropylene parts and MJF is about the only method that has isotropic polypro.
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Glass filled nylon is super cool stuff. I need to get a better dry box so I can do carbon nylon for engine bay bits.
Made some progress on the car. Redid the fuel lines to (hopefully) clear the last of the stuff in the bay that was in the way. Installed the harness and got it located where it needs to be. Swapped an incorrect fitting in the water pump, torqued down the blower lid, put the plugs back in along with plug wires and fixed a belt routing error.
Next up I need to add a tiny bit of clearance in one area where the rack and ac compressor are a little close, then fix one broken wire I found near the DBW throttle body, then the engine should be ready to go back in.
I did also get the dry sump tank the catch can bracket installed. I am going to snag some 5/8 hose to pre-run for the heater hoses and power steering low pressure feed (suction) side tomorrow. If all goes well I'll get the drivetrain in Saturday night or Sunday, then start finishing up cleaning the suspension arms (about 2/3 done with the rear arms) and put in poly bushings/reinstall.
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Not edited, so, don't have high expectations. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Less progress right now than I had wanted. Had to get some spring yard work done today, and then did a quick wash/detail of both my car, and the wife's SUV. Oh well, progress is progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnI_7KNduMg
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Oh, how I wish I could fit the LS7 dry sump pan in the FD.
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Not edited, so, don't have high expectations. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Less progress right now than I had wanted. Had to get some spring yard work done today, and then did a quick wash/detail of both my car, and the wife's SUV. Oh well, progress is progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnI_7KNduMg
Great job! Left a YT comment for the algorithm. All hail the algorithm...
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All hail the algorithm.
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That video got way better feedback than I expected, so I'll make them a little more regularly. Apparently my "off-the-cuff" narration is good enough, LOL.
Progress this week:
Plumbing. Lots of plumbing.
- Cooling system is fully plumbed. This is upper/lower AN lines for radiator, both heater hoses (including head shielding), and all of the steam/degas plumbing which makes for a bunch of hoses. I was able to reuse the Aston degas tank.
- Power steering is fully plumbed. I reused the Aston power steering reservoir, lines and cooling. I did build a new line from the pump to the rack after converting the high side of the rack to 4AN (just TIG'd a fitting on).
- AC is about 1/2 done. Line to the evap is done, and lines back to the reservoir are in place. I need to cut both of those lines and adapt them to universal fittings to connect to the Sanden. I also need to add a fitting for the GM pressure sensor and wire that in. Doesn't look like any of that will be to terribly bad.
Next up:
- Put heat shield on clutch and install clutch line back to master.
- Rebuilidng one oil cooler line that I smashed while putting the subframe in. Whoops.
- Build the oil feed/return lines for the dry sump tank.
- Mount vacuum pump and connect hose to the brake booster.
- Mount reservoir and pump for the intercooler then install that plumbing.
- Mount diff/trans coolers and run hoses.
- Order/build air intake. This will be 4" with a big K&N in the driver front bumper.
Once all that's done, wiring is next up. I do have the harness put "in" where it goes, so in theory it's just sorting out the chassis side and integrating it, plus wiring up the cooling fan and vacuum/intercooler pumps. Oh, and install/wire the GM DBW pedal.
Once all of THAT is done, I need to sort the fuel system upgrades (new pump, lines, fuel pump control module, boost-a-pump). Then it's reinstall suspension, measure and have half-shafts fabricated.
It's a big list, but progress is going well. If the wiring goes well and my clutch/engine work was good, I think this should go smoothly.
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Great progress. I think YT has been swinging from extremely helpful, low res, shakey vids that people like me needed to watch to get a answer on something, to full production videos with professional equipment fancy editing, and the like. I am changing my channel to iphone only, quick edits on splice, upload and go. Heck my last one was filling up my snowmobile with AV gas and got 400 views lol
I am thinking more like a visual way to have the same thing as a garage thread, and for me to remember everything I did when someone asks me about it a year later LOL
I am looking forward to the off the cuff vid on your canbus and electronics. Just try not to get long winded, that is my problem, I could talk for hours and as you say "Aint no one got time for that" LOL
Nice job!
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More video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24rYNkqINb8
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Ordered up most of the pieces to finish the AC system. I'm going to put in swagelock fittings to convert the OEM lines to "universal" ends and then use normal "hot rod" style hose to connect to the Sanden compressor. I think I'm going to need a 12" piece of hard line on one side of the compressor to get the lines clear of the spinny bits.
I -think- that's just about it for hoses/lines. I'll get the pumps mounted (vacuum and intercooler) and finish out all of that plumbing, plus the oil lines and it should be all plumbed out up front. Then the trans/diff coolers and plumbing (minus fuel system) is done. Electrical will follow soon.
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Nice work and appreciate the video. Looks perfect in that engine bay.
Going to be a fun car Blake :drive:
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I've got the Sanden on the car as well. Need to make the lines to the metric FD stuff still. Hardlines would be cool. I think the Sanden is a -8 pressure and -10 suction.
Out of curiosity, has anyone found a metric adapter to go from the 16 and 20mm fitti GS on the FD to SAE for a/c lines? In stainless would be best.
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Out of town most of this weekend for a tournament, but I had a few hours today to work on the car. Decided to take a break from plumbing and work on the rear suspension bushings so I can get the half shafts measured.
The upper control arms weren't too bad, they fit fine in the press. I cut the old bushing "lips" then pressed them out, popped in the new ones and reinstalled. The lower arms though. Oh, the lower arms. They have bushings pressed in from each side, that fit snug against the arm. The first one I tried to cut with a bandsaw then clean up with a flap wheel to get clear. That sucked. The other one I decided to use an air hammer to catch the lip and force it away from the arm. Then I took the bandsaw and cut it back. Way easier.
But, the arm didn't fit in my press, I couldn't get the bushings out with a c clamp or a vise, or the air hammer. Or a hammer hammer. Or profanity. I did make a giant mess of myself though.
FINALLY I cut a piece of tube that fit the bushing, made a "back plate" for it, then used a bolt and not to push the bushings into the tube. Took me 2 hours to come up with that idea, but hey, it took 10 minutes once I came up with the idea. New bushings also somewhat sucked to get in place, but I was successful on that effort and the arms fit the car properly.
One more lower arm to do, but that's for another day. At least I have a plan for the fronts now, though they still need cleaned up. Once the other rear arm is done, I'll measure suspension to figure out the travel arc, mark that, and then sort out the half shaft sizing and get those made. That's the last "wait for it to be made item" so it makes sense to get them in production while I finish the wiring/plumbing/fuel system.
Progress. Slow, tedious, progress!
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Rear suspension is done. Decided to get back to the plumbing.
When I built that custom AC bracket up front for the compressor, I flipped the compressor over. When I took the cover plate off and it peed the pre-loaded oil all over the floor (whoops) it occurred to me that it probably shouldn't be mounted upside down. Read the instructions and yeah, it shouldn't. Great.
So, that derailed today's activity. Pulled the assembly off, and started reworking the bracket to let me flip the compressor. About 2 hours with a die grinder adding clearance where needed without taking away too much meat and it fits. Step 1. Now I have to make the lines fit. So I had to adjust the power steering lines (we'll see if they are happy or need some rework, but even if they do need work later it won't be a big deal). I made a hard line "extension" off one port and ordered a 135* fitting for the other to get the clearance where it needs to be. It looks like it'll all work at least. AC lines are always fussy for some reason. I also got the charge port locations validated and found a port adapter to let me run the GM AC pressure sensor to keep the stock ECU happy. Progress!
Anyway, back to OTHER plumbing, I redid the oil cooler line that I smashed one of the times I put the engine in/out (whoops) and got it installed. I then started work on the dry sump lines. The "in" line for the engine was a little close to the subframe so I added a divot for better clearance during movement. That line is done. Next was the "out" line, which I had designed with a straight fitting. Yeah, that won't work in situ, so 45* fitting is ordered.
I swear I could buy another car with the money I have in "whoops" fittings. Ah well, hoping to finish plumbing the oil/coolant/etc. lines by this coming weekend. Then I think I'm going to do the fuel feed lines and the rear half-shaft measuring, then wiring last (since that's the "relaxing" part for me).
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Everything came in to finish the engine bay plumbing. I also ordered/received the 4" aluminum mandrel bends for the intake pipe, and a K&N to stuff in the fenderwell (where the OEM filters were). If I get free tomorrow I'll finish the oil hoses, A/C hoses and get started on that intake piping. I'm excited to get the intake in, and the oil breather system done as that should basically finish the whole engine bay.
Add trans/diff coolers and fuel feed and 100% of chassis plumbing is done.
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Oil lines are done. A/C lines are done, minus final tightening (will hold off until the engine runs for sure). I also mounted the intercooler pump and finished those hoses up. Intake is also designed, in theory at least. I need to fit the wheel liner back up and make sure it clears, if not I'll mess around with it a bit more.
Next up is the vacuum pump for the brake booster, and then the fuel lines, breather lines (I need to add some -10 bungs to the intake pipe for the clean side on that also) and the oils/trans cooler lines.
Then wiring and start-up. Knocking stuff off the list, slowly.
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Engine bay:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-120524164749-142531028.jpeg)
Intake (with MAF):
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-120524164810-142551641.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-120524164805-14255518.jpeg)
Intercooler Pump:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-120524164821-142562376.jpeg)
Intercooler degas tank:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-120524164848-14259577.jpeg)
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That looks soooooo classy. 8)
I dig the total black and silver theme.
At first glance it looks factory, but then you notice the AN fittings and billet details. :drive:
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Looks awesome. This car is going to be amazing when done
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Thanks guys!
The intake tubing will definitely be wrinkle black, and I may do the blower lid and dry sump tank in wrinkle black eventually as well. Only to make it all a little more subtle/classy. But I don't hate the silver bits, honestly. They play on the aluminum chassis a bit.
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Definitely going closer to that OEM almost look like others have said, the blower lid in the silver I think has a nice focus myself in the engine bay for some contrast. Wrinkle black on the intake for sure adds that OEM+ look though.
This is so much awesome here!
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Agree on the intake tube, but I'd def leave the blower lid natural, and to be honest, I'd hate to cover up those beautiful welds on the dry sump tank as well.
I think the contrast dresses up the bay a lot, without it looking too overdone.
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Hmm, being the lazy sort I am, I avoid painting aluminum parts.
If they're not painted, the paint can't chip / flake / fall off / fade / get scratched.
Just my .02, whole engine compartment looks frickin amazing right now.
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Hmm, being the lazy sort I am, I avoid painting aluminum parts.
If they're not painted, the paint can't chip / flake / fall off / fade / get scratched.
Just my .02, whole engine compartment looks frickin amazing right now.
I agree, low maintenance is a big advantage.
I used POR15 Glisten PC clear on the aluminum heads, intake and polished valve covers on my Ford 427 way back in 2000.
Aside from slight browning on the exhaust ports, it's held up flawlessly, and still looks as good as it did 24 years ago.
It's proven impervious to gasoline on the cast aluminum intake, and prevented any staining at all when gas was spilled.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it again on any bare aluminum I wanted to protect.
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That's good info Cobranut, thanks.
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Yeah, I think you have a good point on the lid and tank. The intake tube absolutely needs to be black though, for sure.
I am planning to have a little stainless plate etched with an Aston "wings" logo to put over the "LT4" inlay on the blower intercooler coolant manifold though. That's the last thing that tells someone that's "sorta" knowledgable what's going on here, so I want to hide it a bit. I also kinda want to put a GoPro under the hood at car shows to see who actually realizes what's going on. No one ever really paid attention under the hood of this car stock. Everyone wanted to see/sit in the interior or just look at the car, so I'm really curious if anyone actually notices that something is "off" under there. :D
On the "Blake hates money" front, I bought a lithium battery and charger for the car. The stock battery is HUGE and weighs 60 lbs. Gross. The Lithium weighs 19 lbs. So I'm saving ~40 lbs. with the rotors and ~40 lbs. with the battery in the car. I also pulled out a little bit of sound deadening (maybe 5 lbs) and I know my radiator/fan setup and shifters are lighter than stock. So maybe 90 lbs. of weight pulled out? I'm planning on Cobra Nogaro seats stitched to match the interior next winter (hopefully) which should pull another 40 lbs out of it as well.
I'll be stoked if my final weight with the new drivetrain is equal to stock; I don't think the LT is much (if any) heavier than the Jag/Aston 4.3L DOHC that was in it, but I know for sure the TR6060/Z06 diff is heavier than the Graziano. I guess I should have weighed the engines considering I own scales. LOL
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Was the old engine supercharged? If the old motor was supercharged I'd expect to be 40-50lb lighter given all that you've replaced.
What AH was the old battery? 19lb for a lithium seems really big. Lithium has a much wider range range. You can run nearly half the AH and get the same result
The battery I'm using is about 7lb and cranks my LS7 like it's not even trying. Doesn't even drop below 11.5v cranking.
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The old battery was 850 CCA/92AH, new one is 900 CCA/60AH. It's a cell based, not pouch based which probably makes it heavier, but had good reviews and such overall and bolts in the stock spot. I'm sure I could have gone lighter, but the weight I'm already saving was pretty awesome still.
As far as engines:
The old engine was a DOHC with a pretty big aluminum intake, but N/A. Not quite Coyote sized, but not far off.
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I think you'll be a wash at worst. The supercharger eats a lot of what you've gained on the scale but unsprung is huge.
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Was the old engine supercharged? If the old motor was supercharged I'd expect to be 40-50lb lighter given all that you've replaced.
What AH was the old battery? 19lb for a lithium seems really big. Lithium has a much wider range range. You can run nearly half the AH and get the same result
The battery I'm using is about 7lb and cranks my LS7 like it's not even trying. Doesn't even drop below 11.5v cranking.
What battery are you using?
I've been thinking a small AGM and a capacitor bank for my race car, but a small lithium would be easier, as long as it works and the price isn't too bad.
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Was the old engine supercharged? If the old motor was supercharged I'd expect to be 40-50lb lighter given all that you've replaced.
What AH was the old battery? 19lb for a lithium seems really big. Lithium has a much wider range range. You can run nearly half the AH and get the same result
The battery I'm using is about 7lb and cranks my LS7 like it's not even trying. Doesn't even drop below 11.5v cranking.
What battery are you using?
I've been thinking a small AGM and a capacitor bank for my race car, but a small lithium would be easier, as long as it works and the price isn't too bad.
I'm using the Antigravity ATX-30-HD. For a race car you could get away with the 20 for sure. It's still 900amps. I just wanted the extra capacity.
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That ATX-30-HD looks impressive. That may be the next battery for the Mustang if/when my Odyssey wears out.
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I bought the JP3 Motorsports ATX-30-HD battery mount kit now I am second guessing that decision. I am going to be running a Cammed LS3 with air conditioning and a regular stereo and standard electronics in the dash (speed hut and holley terminator). It is going to be a street car that will see some track time. Now I am concerned that I am going to kill a bunch of batteries with this setup. I haven't purchased the battery yet at least, so there is time to change direction.
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I bought the JP3 Motorsports ATX-30-HD battery mount kit now I am second guessing that decision. I am going to be running a Cammed LS3 with air conditioning and a regular stereo and standard electronics in the dash (speed hut and holley terminator). It is going to be a street car that will see some track time. Now I am concerned that I am going to kill a bunch of batteries with this setup. I haven't purchased the battery yet at least, so there is time to change direction.
I'm using that mount. As long as you have a good alternator and aren't expecting to run your stereo with the engine off for long periods it'll be fine. The only caveat, they don't like being over 14.4-14.6v. I have mine externally regulated with the ECU to 14.2v. It also ramps in the current draw over 1 min so it doesn't want to kill anything. Using an JS Alternators 250A unit. 2 wire.
I've had my car sit for 3 weeks and the battery was still good. Granted it's all off the PDM so the only draw is the standby mode. Under 30mA or so.
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I bought the JP3 Motorsports ATX-30-HD battery mount kit now I am second guessing that decision. I am going to be running a Cammed LS3 with air conditioning and a regular stereo and standard electronics in the dash (speed hut and holley terminator). It is going to be a street car that will see some track time. Now I am concerned that I am going to kill a bunch of batteries with this setup. I haven't purchased the battery yet at least, so there is time to change direction.
I'm using that mount. As long as you have a good alternator and aren't expecting to run your stereo with the engine off for long periods it'll be fine. The only caveat, they don't like being over 14.4-14.6v. I have mine externally regulated with the ECU to 14.2v. It also ramps in the current draw over 1 min so it doesn't want to kill anything. Using an JS Alternators 250A unit. 2 wire.
I've had my car sit for 3 weeks and the battery was still good. Granted it's all off the PDM so the only draw is the standby mode. Under 30mA or so.
Ok well this helps. I think I can regulate it with the Holley Terminator. I will not be running the stereo with the car off ever most likely because I am not putting a fancy stereo in the car. I have the stock 1SS LS3 alternator. Maybe I will upgrade that. The car will be on a tender when sitting for more than a day.
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Made a little more progress on the car this weekend. Right now it's the "100 small things that each take way too long" stage.
Built a bracket for the vacuum pump and mounted it up to the core support area. I also found an adapter for it to let me tie it to the OEM booster. I do need to find a check valve as I think I sent mine off with the engine when I sold it. Whoops.
Finished the fuel feed, minus being short one "acorn" for the PTFE hoses. I -swear- I bought a whole -6 kit for this car since I needed some for the tranny coolers out back as well, but I guess I didn't. So fittings/hose coming for that. It ended up much easier to mount the pressure sensor and adapt to AN lines up front vs. the rear, so I did that. Saves me having to run wires 6' back to the tank area for the feed pressure sensor anyway. So fuel lines done (mostly).
Next up was the tranny/diff coolers. The car had one in the back already that won't work for my needs, so I deleted it and the bracket and started fitting a couple of small Mishimoto units. Just before I started on brackets, it occurred to me that I might want to make sure the muffler cleared them. I'd kinda been avoiding this as I wasn't 100% sure it would clear my rear subframe mods. It did clear the subframe (with tons of space) but 100% would have hit my coolers if I put them side by side in the rear.
Glad I checked. Instead I'm now going to put the transmission fluid cooler in the "stock" spot on a new bracket, and put the diff cooler behind the driver side rear wheel, with a vent added to the wheel liner to get it some air. It won't get a ton, but honestly both of those coolers are probably overkill on my car anyway, so I expect it'll be just fine.
I'm intending to get a lot done on the long weekend. I'll have the hoses I need this week (along with some nuts and bolts I was short on) to finish the trans/diff coolers. The diff cooler bracket is already finished, and just needs the hoses, and the tranny cooler needs the muffler dropped back out and a simple bracket made. All of that, plus putting the heat shields/brackets/etc. back in place should only take 2-3 hours total, and will finish the plumbing that needs done to start the car.
I am going to upgrade the fuel pump, but again, I don't need to do that to get the car going, so that will be addressed once I'm sure the main bits are good. That leaves wiring work, which will be the main project next weekend. It really doesn't look too bad, but we'll see how close my theory aligns with reality. I do have a small side project putting a cam in an L99 for a friend's BRZ swap in progress, but that should only take a few hours to do (engine is on a pallet currently).
This thing might make (very loud) noise soon. Once it runs, I still need to:
Build half-shafts (mock-up)
Have real half-shafts made
Poly bushings in front suspension
Reinstall front suspension
Bolt check rear suspension
Upgrade fuel pump
Finish engine breather system
Vacuum check/charge A/C
Bleed clutch
Bleed brakes
Fabricate exhaust mid-pipes
Clearance/tweak under floor brackets
Finish coding/install my CAN translator for the gauges
Take it for an alignment
I'm sure I'm forgetting things, but it's close. I still have a few things to buy, but most of the damage is done. Definitely the most expensive project I've worked on so far from a swap perspective.
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Running through the list of what's "must have" in order to start the car. My plan is to get it to start/run and not make terrible noises, then follow up with putting the front suspension together, fill/bleed A/C, brakes, clutch, etc. once I don't have any obvious need to rip the drivetrain back out of it.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Finish trans and diff cooler mounts/hoses.
Finish fuel hose (1x fitting needs installed).
Change oil filter/fill oil
Fill transmission
Fill diff
Chassis Wiring -> I have about 30 wires total on the chassis side that need addressed to start the car. I'm planning to drop a connector onto the CAN side to allow me to hook up my gauge controller, wideband gauge and CAN data controller. I also need to run wires back to the transmission for reverse lock out and VSS, make a sub-harness to power up the intercooler pump, vacuum pump and A/C pressure sensor, and a small harness to run to the fuel pressure sensor.
Fuel system control -> This is a slightly more involved thing as I need to wire up the new fuel pump controller (including finding a path for CAN data wires), and hook up the MSD fuel pump voltage booster.
Power wiring -> The Aston has a stud under the wheel well for power distribution (how handy) that I will connect a link to the starter, fuse box and alternator to. I also need to ground the engine and transmission. I'm going to type that again so I remember. GROUND THE DRIVETRAIN. :D
There is a slim chance I could finish that out this weekend and be able to put a start-up tune on the car and fire it off. That'd be pretty sweet.
I bought a 14point7 "Spartan 3" kit for wideband, BTW.
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Any reason to not run a small piggyback ecu for all the ancillaries like the fuel pump and wide band?
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Why though? Honest question.
The GM Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) talks to the ECU and is configurable via HP Tuners, and the wideband runs back on the engine CAN bus and I'll be able to read that with HP Tuners as well. I don't know that a piggyback gets me anything I don't have already with the OEM setup.
To be clear, I'd rather run a Haltech standalone or something, but the Holley was "meh" for the costs, and no one else seems to have anything under 7-8K plus lots of tuning effort.
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
Fair. With a Holley I'd still have to do the CAN gateway, the Maxx -might- let me output enough custom CAN to run my gauges/stock stuff, but I think I'd still have to put in the gateway with that, too, and then I'd need to tie into a bunch of OEM sensors (or add additional ones).
I'd still have to control the fuel pump with the GM ECU as well, since it needs to PWM it to maintain fuel pressure. I guess I could build a custom PWM setup via the Maxx, etc. but I don't think that's less work than running the GM bits.
If Maxx could easily do standalone of direct injection, I'd totally have done that, though.
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Made a bit more progress this weekend. Less than I hoped due to competing commitments, but it is what it is.
Fuel lines are done.
Trans and diff coolers are mounted, lines are run.
Integration of the wiring is mostly finished.
I put the lithium battery in the car and lightly mounted it, then turned power back on in the chassis and tested that my security system bypasses seem to work (they do), and that my start button lights up the right color (it does). I think I might be lighting my "start button" red whenever I press the clutch down, but I'll look at adding a control for that in the CAN gateway at a future date as that's pretty easy to do.
Next:
Add fuel line pressure sensor (need a connector)
Finish integration between the front harnesses (need a connector and a little soldering/crimping/glue shrink)
Run the wiring for the wideband through the firewall grommet.
Run the wiring for the fuel pump module through the firewall grommet.
Mount/wire the fuel pump module and MSD voltage booster.
Ground block to chassis
Ground trans to chassis
Wire starter solenoid (extend Aston starter relay wiring to GM starter)
Wire starter/alternator power (build a couple of main power leads)
That should, in theory, be enough to let me wake up the ECU and talk to it via HP Tuners, and disable VATS, etc. I'll do a voltage check on the ECU to make sure I'm not going to fry it first. ;)
Then...
Engine oil
Transmission oil
Diff oil
Pressure test fuel system
Vacuum/pressure test cooling system
Vacuum/pressure test supercharger cooling system
Bleed brakes/clutch
Test fire!
Oh, and I really need to get those half-shafts done. Once it's running I'll put suspension back together and start sorting out A/C CAN control wiring, CAN gateway, cooling fans/vacuum pump/intercooler pump/A/C sensors/etc.
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Awesome sauce! So excited for this one Blake!!
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
Fair. With a Holley I'd still have to do the CAN gateway, the Maxx -might- let me output enough custom CAN to run my gauges/stock stuff, but I think I'd still have to put in the gateway with that, too, and then I'd need to tie into a bunch of OEM sensors (or add additional ones).
I'd still have to control the fuel pump with the GM ECU as well, since it needs to PWM it to maintain fuel pressure. I guess I could build a custom PWM setup via the Maxx, etc. but I don't think that's less work than running the GM bits.
If Maxx could easily do standalone of direct injection, I'd totally have done that, though.
Totally fair on the DI support. I've been bugging Nathanael about it on and off for two years now.
The MAXX only has 10 discrete can outputs but each can have data masks. It has test outputs that can run indefinitely for things like check bits to to enable operation. If more were needed I'm sure Natanael could add them fairly quickly.
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
Fair. With a Holley I'd still have to do the CAN gateway, the Maxx -might- let me output enough custom CAN to run my gauges/stock stuff, but I think I'd still have to put in the gateway with that, too, and then I'd need to tie into a bunch of OEM sensors (or add additional ones).
I'd still have to control the fuel pump with the GM ECU as well, since it needs to PWM it to maintain fuel pressure. I guess I could build a custom PWM setup via the Maxx, etc. but I don't think that's less work than running the GM bits.
If Maxx could easily do standalone of direct injection, I'd totally have done that, though.
Totally fair on the DI support. I've been bugging Nathanael about it on and off for two years now.
The MAXX only has 10 discrete can outputs but each can have data masks. It has test outputs that can run indefinitely for things like check bits to to enable operation. If more were needed I'm sure Natanael could add them fairly quickly.
Exidous:
I have a MaxxECU Sport I'll be using on my racer.
I think I have enough analog and digital I/O, but I might could use a few more.
Is there an inexpensive CAN I/O module available, that would give me another 4 or so inputs and outputs?
Thanks,
David
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
Fair. With a Holley I'd still have to do the CAN gateway, the Maxx -might- let me output enough custom CAN to run my gauges/stock stuff, but I think I'd still have to put in the gateway with that, too, and then I'd need to tie into a bunch of OEM sensors (or add additional ones).
I'd still have to control the fuel pump with the GM ECU as well, since it needs to PWM it to maintain fuel pressure. I guess I could build a custom PWM setup via the Maxx, etc. but I don't think that's less work than running the GM bits.
If Maxx could easily do standalone of direct injection, I'd totally have done that, though.
Totally fair on the DI support. I've been bugging Nathanael about it on and off for two years now.
The MAXX only has 10 discrete can outputs but each can have data masks. It has test outputs that can run indefinitely for things like check bits to to enable operation. If more were needed I'm sure Natanael could add them fairly quickly.
Exidous:
I have a MaxxECU Sport I'll be using on my racer.
I think I have enough analog and digital I/O, but I might could use a few more.
Is there an inexpensive CAN I/O module available, that would give me another 4 or so inputs and outputs?
Thanks,
David
Cheapest is the canchecked MCE/CFE18. It adds about 7 DINs, 9 AINs and 3 low current outputs. Enough for a 1w bulb or so. Or a small relay. About $125 for just the board. Maxx has a default tune with all the can data prepopulated.
Just that one board has all of my tactile inputs at the dash going into it. Lights, switches, pedals. It drives my CEL, HB and ABS lights.
Vadpro is their US distributor.
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HB light? Hot boi light?
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It seemed like you had more that you had to figure out for control and a piggyback could act as a CAN message gateway between the GM and Aston stuff. I was thinking much smaller that a V8 ECU. More like a MaxxECU Sport or Mini. It could also act as the data logger.
Fair. With a Holley I'd still have to do the CAN gateway, the Maxx -might- let me output enough custom CAN to run my gauges/stock stuff, but I think I'd still have to put in the gateway with that, too, and then I'd need to tie into a bunch of OEM sensors (or add additional ones).
I'd still have to control the fuel pump with the GM ECU as well, since it needs to PWM it to maintain fuel pressure. I guess I could build a custom PWM setup via the Maxx, etc. but I don't think that's less work than running the GM bits.
If Maxx could easily do standalone of direct injection, I'd totally have done that, though.
Totally fair on the DI support. I've been bugging Nathanael about it on and off for two years now.
The MAXX only has 10 discrete can outputs but each can have data masks. It has test outputs that can run indefinitely for things like check bits to to enable operation. If more were needed I'm sure Natanael could add them fairly quickly.
Exidous:
I have a MaxxECU Sport I'll be using on my racer.
I think I have enough analog and digital I/O, but I might could use a few more.
Is there an inexpensive CAN I/O module available, that would give me another 4 or so inputs and outputs?
Thanks,
David
Cheapest is the canchecked MCE/CFE18. It adds about 7 DINs, 9 AINs and 3 low current outputs. Enough for a 1w bulb or so. Or a small relay. About $125 for just the board. Maxx has a default tune with all the can data prepopulated.
Just that one board has all of my tactile inputs at the dash going into it. Lights, switches, pedals. It drives my CEL, HB and ABS lights.
Vadpro is their US distributor.
That should work nicely.
Thanks,
David
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This thing is going to be so wicked!
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HB light? Hot boi light?
High beam hot boi
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High beams. Lame. Hot boi button is better. :D
I think it should turn on an RGB underbody kit that flashes while playing EDM rave music.
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Well, mild setback. I tried to fire up the ECU and read it with HP Tuners. No dice. I'm fairly confident the ECU is bad from the crash the donor was in, as there is physical damage to the case (connectors are cracked and fins are broken). On further inspection it has a couple rattles inside of it, which generally isn't good, LOL.
When hooked up, it blows the main ECU feed fuse every time. I've double checked that power is going where it's supposed to, and it doesn't pop when the ECU isn't plugged in.
Ordered a replacement ECU up, that'll be here next week. So this weekend I'll keep working to finish the rest of the chassis wiring work. The good news is that the when testing the controls for the chassis side wiring that runs the ECU, all of that seems to be working as intended.
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Sounds like a sign to put a Motec on it...
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Shoot, I'm already like 35k into this swap, I don't particularly want to drop 12k on a Motec. I mean, I kinda do, but I'm not gonna. I'd rather spend that on coilovers and carbon fixed bucket seats, which are probably my next add-ons (next year), along with probably redoing the engine harness with mil-spec wiring/raychem shrink and ripping the front chassis power harness out and de-pinning the extra bits I don't need any longer.
Funny story, I needed a VIN for getting my ECU reprogrammed, but I don't have a VIN on the engine and can't talk to the ECU that had the VIN in it. So what to do?
Well get on eBay and find the right year/option Z06 and just use that VIN. So my ECU VIN when I run the car will say it's some random Z06 off eBay.
edit: Now I'm looking at Motec solutions. I hate you all.
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EMTRON with a pair of Toyota DI drivers!!!!!
KV8 to be precise. The drivers can be had for about $100 each on eBay.
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I don't think there is any base tune available for the pump/injector profiling with Emtron on this platform. That means manually profiling those which is, from my reading, a 20+ hour effort and really should be done with an engine dyno. Same reason I didn't consider the Link G5 Voodoo.
It seems like Holley and Motec are the only ones with available profiles out of the box.
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That's a shame. Have you talked with EMTRON yet? My communications with them were always very helpful. Maybe they have something in the works.
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I did a bunch of troubleshooting on the wiring/ECU today and noticed the ECU case was bent. Yep, it was hitting the pins and shorting them.
Cut the back off (open heart surgery) and it does wake up now, and talk to HP Tuners. Yay!
I have an internal CPU error (and some scorch marks) on the injector driver. I assume that's what I heard broken inside, or it shorted and died when the ECU was bent. So this can be my test ECU as the rest seems to work alright so far.
Working through various systems, I've validated:
ECT
DBW Pedal (wrong pedal in it currently, but it "works" enough to know the wiring is good.
Starter relay
Power to all ECU channels
SES/MIL light
I had a box of MIL errors on the ECU and I've worked through those and everything I can test seems to be happy. I will keep working with this ECU, though I can't edit it (as I don't particularly want to pay to put credits on an ECU I'll be getting rid of). Next up is sorting out the PWM fan (and getting it running via the ECU) and wiring up the A/C pressure sensor, intercooler pump and vacuum pump, which will finish out the engine bay wiring.
After that is wiring up the CAN data to the fuel module (and adding the voltage booster), wire up wideband sensor, A/C control and power to the starter/alternator and test the rest of the engine sensors (fuel pressure, IAT, etc.). Hopefully I'll have all of that done by tomorrow night and it'll be ready to fire up when the new ECU arrives.
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That's a shame. Have you talked with EMTRON yet? My communications with them were always very helpful. Maybe they have something in the works.
I'll look back into aftermarket stuff in the future most likely, but right now I want to get it all working properly on the stock ECU if at all possible. That seems like the shortest path to my ends. The longer I wait the more likely I'll have better options for direct injection. I'd really most prefer Haltech if possible, but they don't have any plans currently.
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Ya, still waiting on NSP to make it to the IC7....STILL.
No a bad idea to hold back on the whole I'm in there.
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Yeah, I'm excited for dash customization and some of the other features that are coming for NSP/IC7 combo. I want the Bluetooth/Wifi tuning for my phone, too, since I can use a tablet/phone instead of my laptop.
They must be having some read headaches on that front as they're way behind on release there.
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Worked on a few more things today. A/C pressure sensor, vacuum pump and intercooler pump all wired up. Ran the wideband O2 and other assorted wiring through the firewall, and wired up the GM fuel pump module and MSD booster.
After all of that, I didn't seem to have power to the fuel system and found that the power feed for that has a power enable that I hadn't accounted for. So I'll dig into that later and bypass it to ignition control. For now I just jumpered the relay.
Current issues:
1. ECU is bad. I knew this already.
2. I can't control the fuel system from HP Tuners. I'm not sure why. It is priming, I have fuel at the rail, so maybe that's okay?
3. I can't control the cooling fans from HP Tuners. Same as above, I don't know why. Maybe that's normal? Doesn't seem normal.
4. Fuel pressure (feed, not rail) isn't reading properly. I'll dig into this and see if I flip-flopped some wires or something, or if I have a bigger wiring or sensor issue. This shouldn't be that big of a deal.
ECU comes tomorrow, I'm confident I can plug this in and not blow it up, so I'll do that, and then register my HP Tuners to it. Once that's done, I can adjust some settings to make sure it's aligned for how I'm running the car (Flex fuel, no EVAP, no VATS, etc. etc.).
Once that's done (and I sort the fuel pressure sensor, and figure out what's going on with fuel and fan control), I need to wire the main power lead to the alternator and starter (engine is already grounded), put oil in the places that need oil, and then, in theory, it should be able to start.
If it runs (I'm 50/50), I need to sort out the ECU mounting, clean up the wiring a little more (it's about 90% there already), mount the battery, spec out/order the half-shafts, then start putting the suspension and exhaust together.
So close, yet so far. :D
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Quick update. Some fast research says that the fuel pump module behavior is probably normal for a 2016. And the scanner may not be able to control the fan.
So, need to sort out fuel pressure sensor behavior, put fuel in it, and a PCM that didn't eat a ditch/fender/pole/whatever at speed and see what I get. This thing might yet heat coolant before July...
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I keep hoping Shainiac gets his going before I'm ready to swap my DCT back to OE control so I can steal his settings. He was supposed to be done in MAY. WTF
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It'll definitely heat coolant before July...
Tossed the new computer in at lunch. Didn't light on fire. Registered it with HP Tuners and did a quick touch up to make it less angry. No apparent failures.
After work I had a few minutes free and redid the fuel pump power wire to bypass the security behavior and let me power on the MSD/GM FPDM. Rechecked the wiring for that (all good) and then an power to the starter. Put some oil in the dry sump tank (too much, actually, whoops).
Out of curiousity, I decided to bump the starter over to make sure all of that wiring worked. The second I hit the starter button it fired up. That was not expected, haha. It won't hold an idle, but I have DBW errors due to having the Aston pedal plugged in, so I'll fix those and go over the fuel pressure sensor before I worry too much about that. But hey, it starts!
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Awesome!! Pretty promising progress there.
I'll be up near the Fort a couple times this month but will just be in and out to drop off the dogs and then pick them back up from the in-laws. One of these times I need to stop in and see your cars. I think the last time I saw you was way back at 7 not stock at the golf course with your FC!
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Let me know! I'm in NYC (work) next week, and in Little Rock, AR (martial arts) in 2 weeks, but happy to show off the cars and the disaster that is my shop if I'm around. :)
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This is awesome! Any limitations on the stock ECU that you are not happy with? It will be cool once the aftermarket gets DI figured out. I also love how Maxx is integrating transmission control, my first standalone will probably be a engine and trans system so I love how the market is evolving to include both now that 8HP and DCTs are proving to be much faster and better then good ole manuals.
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Stock ECU things I don't like:
1. I've never been a big fan of HP Tuners. I had a very negative customer experience with them in the past. I like their F1 driver though, haha.
1(a). The ability to manage detailed config/difficulty setting things up on a stock computer is much worse than most aftermarket stuff. That's not HP Tuners fault, they've done a lot to make it easy(er).
2. Lack of sensors/engine protection vs. aftermarket.
3. Lack of WBO2 sensors built in.
4. The fuel "computer" is proving a real PITA for me so far.
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More progress (since I can spend 5-10 minutes here or there messing with it now).
1. Fuel pressure sensor (feed), wiring was fine, so I...
2. Jumpered the pump direct to 12V. It isn't super happy about this, BUT, I see pressure at the feed line now (and at the high pressure rail for that matter). But then...
3. I didn't tighten one of the ("low" pressure) fuel fittings at the rail. Wasn't obvious with less pressure, but it was now. At least it wasn't behind the engine where I can't reach it!
Fixed that and checked for leaks and tried to fire it up again. And... it ran! Poorly, for about 6-7 seconds, but it ran well beyond what a VATS shutdown would do, so that's great news. I didn't get a log, but all relevant sensors seem to be fine. I don't have an oil temp sensor yet (need to make a fitting to put it in the drain of the dry sump tank), but the rest are on and appear to be happy.
So what about the "FPCM" box? Well, I think maybe it doesn't get along with the MSD box. I don't know yet, but the MSD box blinks its LED when connected to the FPCM, but just works normally when directly connected to the pump. No clue why, honestly. It works in the Mustang fine (I have 2 and swapped them to check). I have it set at 14V right now as a baseline, so it's not a "high voltage" issue. Anyway, I bypassed the MSD voltage booster for the moment and adjusted the "prime time" on the pump to 10 seconds and I heard it prime the pump. More testing indicates it doesn't seem to prime the pump if there's sufficient (62 psi or more) in the feed lines. I'll let it bleed down over time (check valve means it bleeds down slow) and check it again. If that's the case, I think maybe the box is fine? We'll see.
Oh, I had a loose oil line at the oil cooler, which is a good thing today, because it dripped. Why is that good? Well it means I have oil pressure and flow everywhere. Tightned that up and no more apparent leaks.
Next up I'm going to finish filling the transmission and diff up with oil (they just have a splash right now) and wire up the VSS/reverse lights/reverse lockout and test that RLO and reverse lights work, then I think I better put the heat shields on and build an exhaust. I'm pretty sure if I fire this thing up many more times sounding like the wrath of God, I'm going to get a nastygram from the neighborhood association, LOL.
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It def sounds like you're getting closer to a driver. I'm impressed with your progress so far.
Speaking of dry sump oil temp measurement, is the tank the best place to measure oil temp?
I have a Raceline dry sump on my race car, which has a multi-stage oil pump internal to the pan.
I'm considering putting the sensor in the line from the pressure pump to the oil filter, but I've also thought about making an adapter to put it in the plug for the suction screen in the oil pan. Of course, this would be measuring an air/oil mixture, but would be seeing the oil right out of the bearings. I failed to have a sensor bung added when I had ordered my tank, and it's a very thin and lightweight tank. I wouldn't risk welding in a bung.
What's your opinion?
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The tank is where the oil is being supplied to the engine, so the temp of the oil at the bottom of the tank, where it's being pumped into the engine, seems like it would be most representative of the oil inside the engine (or at least its capacity for cooling). If I had a standalone, I'd measure it at the output to the oil cooler as well, to know what that looks like, but it seems like tank is a decent measurement, in my mind anyway.
I have an old friend from work that is a Gen V tuner and whipped up a quick startup tune and config for my scanner that should help make it a little happier next startup. I'm going to get an exhaust put on it next so that I can run it longer and hookup the wideband and see what its doing. Well, and add coolant and such, that seems important. LOL. Oh, and I need to hook up my DBW pedal also.
Probably NEXT weekend, maybe a little progress on Sunday, if I've got anything left for energy after 3 hours of sparring training, hah.
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Tonight's project: Throttle pedal.
I've had the Vantage pedal hooked up the whole time so far. It technically "sorta" works, but the voltage sweeps are wrong and backwards. I might be able to repin it and tweak stuff to make it work, but, meh. I've got a CTS pedal for this that should work great. I took apart the Vantage pedal to steal the aluminum "face" which I'll move to the modified CTS pedal to make it match. Size/position is very close and I'll make an adapter bracket to bolt it in the firewall just like the Aston pedal did.
I pulled the Aston pedal out and determined that sorting out moving to the GM connector under the dash would be... unenjoyable. So, I took apart the Vantage pedal and hacked the plug out to make an adapter harness that will plug in and convert to the GM plug. Toned out all the wiring to double check and soldered pigtails from the GM plug into the donor side. Plug and play. :)
I'll test it tomorrow (have to work tonight, sadly) and make sure it sweeps properly in the scanner app. Then I need to terminate and plug in the oil temp sender, even if it's not installed. That should fix the last SES/MIL error on the car. Then I'll put the car up, wire the transmission up, and start on the exhaust.
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If the pedal worked but backwards and it didn't throw an error the slope is in the wrong direction and not really fixable without translation. Unless I'm not understanding what was happening.
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Well the GM pedal sweeps 0-5 and 5-0 on the opposing channels. The Aston seemed to be flip-flopped on APP 1 vs. APP 2, so possibly switching the 1 and 2 channels might have aligned that. The bigger issue is the sweep of the voltage wasn't sufficient, so the GM ECU read 82% -> 28% on a sweep, instead of 100% - 0% (or thereabouts) so the voltage outputs weren't in line with the GM.
Fixing all of that seemed like way more work than just putting the CTS pedal in. Plus I want to basically make this car a Corvette from an engine systems perspective. GM fuel pump module, ECU, cooling fans, vacuum pump, intercooler pump, pedal, etc. That way servicing parts in the future is as simple as possible.
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He smells blood in the water! So fun when you get close right! Great idea on the pedal. I like the sticking with GM on the all the bits, so when you sell the car to me I can easily take care of it :D
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Mini update: Got a little time at lunch. Plugged in the pedal with my adapter harness, works great, sweeps 0-100 (well, 99.8%) properly. Installed the oil temp sender as well, just hanging out in the bay for now. Reads properly. No MIL errors any more.
Now for alternator power/trans wiring and exhaust/wideband install.
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99.7 or 8 is normal. 100% is a fault state iirc.
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I figured it was an intentional behavior. Well, once I stared at it concerned for ~30 seconds. Haha.
Underbody transmission tunnel brace and heat shields are in place. Transmission wiring is run back to the transmission, waiting on a few connectors to finish that up. Exhaust is next. I have a pre-built X-pipe I'm planning to narrow to fit in the tunnel, then just build to the X-pipe with the cats from the headers, and then build from it to the muffler. Snaking past the transmission/diff/half-shafts doesn't look super fun.
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Busy couple of weeks. Was in NYC all week this week, in Little Rock for Team ATA USA Sparring Trials next week/weekend. Trying to slam in some work on this car in between with the hope of being able to drive it sometime this summer.
X pipe has been narrowed. It's TIGHT with the heat shielding, but I'll wrap those areas in header wrap and it'll be fine. I spent a couple hours on it today and got the headers to x-pipe installed. Exhaust is dual 3" with 200 cell Flowmaster "49 state" cats and bellows style flex pipes to allow for some movement. I'll end up building a little brace in the center to connect the center of the x-pipe area to the floor somewhere as the factory bracket was on the torque tube. I might come back and redo a similar torque tube "drop mount" for the exhaust but I don't need it right now.
Everything is just tacked up for now, but it should be good where it is. I'll drop it and TIG it up before I build the back half just to make sure everything is 100% where it will end up. The rear is the tough spot though, the front was just a couple of 45* bends. The rear will be... more. Many more. LOL
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Holy crap that was a lot of fab and welding. My hands/arms are sore.
I'll get pics later today, but exhaust fabrication is done. Well, I'll find out later this morning if it's really done, since stainless moves so much. I estimate something like 16' of linear welding to build this exhaust. So many little bends to dodge the transaxle and floor.
The exhaust necks down slightly at the muffler (2.75" instead of 3"), and I adapted the factory midpipe flanges to let me use stock replacement mufflers (or in this case, my fancy Velocity AP valved muffler). Because of this I need to "port" these flanges to have a smooth transition. Which means a lot of time with mini cut-off discs and a carbide bit in the die grinder. I don't think the flow will matter much, but my concern was a lip in the flow might make weird noises.
Anyway, one side of the "porting" is done, I'll finish the other one today and then finishing painting (VHT 2000*) and wrapping the mid/rear pipes and install it all. I'll also add O2 sensors and get the alternator wired up and coolant in. I need to put rear brakes back on so that I can bleed the brake and clutch systems.
Once all that's done, I'll (finally) get the rear half-shafts measured and ordered, then start buttoning up the front suspension and undertrays, then interior/wiring final work. Once all that's done, I'll be working with my tuner to get that roughly sorted and then dyno tuned.
Getting there...
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Holy crap that was a lot of fab and welding. My hands/arms are sore.
I'll get pics later today, but exhaust fabrication is done. Well, I'll find out later this morning if it's really done, since stainless moves so much. I estimate something like 16' of linear welding to build this exhaust. So many little bends to dodge the transaxle and floor.
The exhaust necks down slightly at the muffler (2.75" instead of 3"), and I adapted the factory midpipe flanges to let me use stock replacement mufflers (or in this case, my fancy Velocity AP valved muffler). Because of this I need to "port" these flanges to have a smooth transition. Which means a lot of time with mini cut-off discs and a carbide bit in the die grinder. I don't think the flow will matter much, but my concern was a lip in the flow might make weird noises.
Anyway, one side of the "porting" is done, I'll finish the other one today and then finishing painting (VHT 2000*) and wrapping the mid/rear pipes and install it all. I'll also add O2 sensors and get the alternator wired up and coolant in. I need to put rear brakes back on so that I can bleed the brake and clutch systems.
Once all that's done, I'll (finally) get the rear half-shafts measured and ordered, then start buttoning up the front suspension and undertrays, then interior/wiring final work. Once all that's done, I'll be working with my tuner to get that roughly sorted and then dyno tuned.
Getting there...
Oh man, I HATE porting steel. I imagine stainless is similar.
When I built my Cobra, I cleaned up the headers to smooth the welds and match them to the gaskets.
A million tiny, sharp needles everywhere. :o A shop vac is invaluable, but I was picking those things out of my skin for weeks. :'(
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I always end up with a few slivers in my garage shoes. Then I end up finding them in my feet 3 months later.
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So, today's results:
Initial exhaust design in. I may have to mess with it a little in the future to get a little more clearance in a few areas on the back of the x-pipe, but it's good enough to serve the purpose of getting it on the road and the pipes around the transaxle actually fit really well.
Filled the engine with coolant, only leak was the upper radiator hose that I apparently forgot to tighten. Put power steering fluid in, wired up the alternator, put coolant in the intercooler system and put the main drive belt in.
Car fired up right up and ran well. Idle is smooth and it revs pretty clean. Ran it up to temp and the coolant fan kicked on. Temps are climbing up to ~220, so I'm sure I've got a bubble somewhere that I need to deal with. I was getting a cam/crank correlation error, so I need to check that, but it's probably related to deleting VVT. Didn't seem to impact running the engine any. Power steering seemed to bleed fine, and no leaks on those hoses. The intercooler system seems to have bled pretty well also, I'll keep checking it.
I forgot to check voltage and see if the alternator was charging and I'd really like to find somewhere to at least temporarily hook up an oil pressure gauge. It moved oil through the oil cooler and valve covers so I know I have pressure, but it'd be nice to know how much.
Next up is sorting out the physical fuel system as my fuel pressure was acting wonky, bouncing between ~70 psi and 100 psi, likely because the in tank pump can't regulate pressure properly with the PWM controller. Going to look at adding an external fuel pressure regulator as a bypass to manage peak pressure. I need to dig into the tank and see what pump I need for an upgrade and how I can manage returning fuel to the tank. Then I can add an FPR and return and sort that out. Once that's done, I'll wire up ECU O2 sensors and the wideband and start sorting out what it's actually doing for fueling, and get the coolant system burped.
Alongside that, front suspension needs the bushings upgrade and reinstalled, half-shafts need finished (about half done with the modification prep work now) and then rear suspension needs buttoned up along with brakes and clutch.
Still a ways to go, but I'm hopeful it'll be on the road this summer. I sure hope so because I already have plans for what I want to tweak in the design next year, haha.
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16' is a lot. Lol PICS!!!!
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Yeah, sorry, I was FILTHY and didn't want to touch my phone, then I was clean and didn't wanna go out in my 95* garage and get pictures. I'll make a video next weekend (Team USA TKD tryouts this weekend).
I did forget to mention:
A) My Fuel Pump Control Module clearly works, as the car ran/idled fine. It can't manage the peak fuel pressure properly though, so I need to address that, and upgrade the pump.
B) My Chevy Volt fan also works as it spun up with PWM soft start, and increased in power as the car came up to temp.
I don't know why I can't control those manually in the HP Tuners software, but it doesn't matter since they work.
I ordered a "Hellcat" pump (Walbro 525) and a Deatschwerks fuel pressure regulator. My thought now is to use the regulator as a "bypass valve" of sorts to control max fuel pressure at 72 psi (what the Gen V wants at full send) and keep the FPCM in place to PWM the pump (the 525 I bought is specifically supposed to be PWM compatible per TI Auto). If that doesn't work I'll just convert it to run the pump "normal" and set the fuel pressure static at 72 psi instead. I do need to figure out where the heck to PUT the FPR, and how to return fuel to the tank.
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The power button on the GUI in HP tuners, what does it have access too?
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Been out of town most of the past couple weeks, going to hopefully hammer down on this Sat/Sun and see what I can get done. Hoping to get the fuel system sorted out fully, and cooling system bled properly to keep temps correct. Then hopefully get the front suspension put together if I get time.
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I was up near you last weekend but had to deal with a bad tank of diesel in my wife's BMW that made the car not run. Looking forward to some progress photos!
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So yesterday I burned my arm on the turbo on the Mustang. Somewhere between 2nd and 3rd degree burn, looks like I have gray scale from Game of Thrones, hah. That made today's Aston job much less fun. Fuel tank work. So, pro tip, burns SUCK to soak in gasoline. Lots.
Anyway, today's jobs:
1. Get in the tank, remove the fuel pump module, and figure out how to jam a Hellcat pump in it.
This wasn't actually that bad. Module snapped out, and I was able to fit the new pump inside with (too much) room to spare. The new pump was a little too small, so I took a silicone coupler and put it around the pump to make it close to the size the module was made for, then trimmed the module and installed worm gear clamps above/below the OEM pump bracket in the module to lock the pump in place. It can move around a tiny bit, but it will keep the filter in the bottom of the pump module, which is what it needs. I was able to adapt the factory tubing system (which includes a jet pump/siphon, feed to the front and some kind of weird regulator valve thing) to the new pump pretty easily. All in all, not too dramatic. Lots of gas on my hands though. I miss E85. Anyway, done.
2. Figure out fuel return.
Once that was done, I needed a way to return fuel to the tank. The Aston had a PWM setup of some kind that ran the pump, and I had hoped the GM fuel pump controller would "drop in" and control it. Nope, spikes to 100 psi+ and can't control the pump. Crap. So I need to regulate it externally to "cap" max pressure and let the module control it (or I'll scrap the module and let her eat at 72 PSI, we'll see). Either way, the tank now needs a return. Handily enough I deleted the EVAP system, so I have a hose that runs to the tank that's just about perfect for a return. So I modified the plumbing in the tank to convert that hose to a return and secured it under the in tank filter to prevent it aerating the fuel. Done.
3. Regulate/control max pump pressure.
Next, I need a regulator on this system. I decided to put it under the car where the chassis meets the subframe as there is JUST enough room, and I already go from OEM lines to AN fittings there, so it seemed "convenient". I bought a compact Deatschwerks regulator (anymore I either use Deatschwerks or Radium for everything), and made JUST enough room to sneak it in, along with a bracket to lock it in place. I hardwired the pump to run and adjusted the regulator until the GM "low side" sensor read ~72 psi and called it good. No leaks. Done.
4. Test stuff.
I put the FPCM back on and started the car up. Commanded (targed) low side pressure is 60 psi at idle and I'm seeing it bouncing between ~50 and 70, averaging about 60. I'm not sure if it'll "learn" how to PWM this pump better or not, but worst case I can disable FPCM in the tune and just lock it in at 72 psi, which is what plenty of swaps do. I'd rather keep the FPCM in place to let the pump run cooler if I can though. Either way, it's much happier now than when it was spiking up to 100+ psi, and I don't have to worry about hot fuel lines building excess pressure.
I also bought/installed some front O2s and hooked them up, car seems to be reading them fine, hard to know with stupid narrowband sensors. I need to finish wiring up the Spartan 3 wideband and get it reading so I can get a better idea of what the lambdas look like.
I also made a little more progress on the PCV system, and ordered up (most of) the fittings I'll need to finish that off. I ran the car up to temp and while it's a little rough at idle (minimal tuning + cam will do that), as soon as I bring the RPM up off idle it actually sounds pretty good. I also closed the valves on the exhaust and it even has a little of that Aston "scream" that it had with the 4.3L, so that's cool. I am hearing a little bit of a rattle noise here and there from the clutch, torque tube or transmission that I haven't quite figured out. It seems to be backlash or something when the engine is bouncing around at idle. Doesn't sound like anything in the engine, but hopefully it's nothing that will require the transmission or clutch out.
Next up is probably attacking the half-shafts. I guess I can't put that off any longer. That and front suspension are, in theory the last things I need before I can bleed the clutch and put the car on the ground and see if it goes forward/backward.
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I wonder if a small bleed orifice back to the tank, to allow for a constant flow of fuel, would allow the FPCM to better control the pump. It would also help keep the pump cool, and eliminate the need for an external regulator.
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Yeah, that's an option that VaporWorx and others recommend. But you really need to play with the sizing of the orifice to make it work, etc., and that looks not-that-fun to do.
We'll see how this goes long term. I have a sneaky suspicion that I'll end up yanking the FPCM, but we'll see.
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So I measured and both half-shaft distances measure the same side to side (I mean, that was expected, but just had to triple check).
I cut down the Aston shaft in the bandsaw, then tossed it on the CNC mill and trued up the edge (at least, more true than the bandsaw). Did the same with the Corvette shaft, built a quick jig and TIG'd them together. It's not straight, but it's definitely straight-ish. Straight enough to install and run the suspension through the whole of its movement and make sure it doesn't bind and has adequate plunge/movement everywhere. Looks good, and sits with plunge roughly where the boots want to live at "rest" at ride height.
I'll pull it tomorrow and hopefully drop it off at the shop that's going to build the new axle shafts this week. I figure it'll probably be a few weeks for that, so I'll get the front suspension bushings in, setup the rear parking brakes and get everything else bled/ready from that side, along with finishing up the interior wiring. Once all that's done it should be able to move under its own power. A few more clean-ups/tweaks and it should be ready for a dyno tune. Progress!
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Dropped off the half-shafts at lunch today at https://branikmotorsports.com/ who are local. They're doing the custom shafts in 300M for me. I have ~6 weeks or so (maybe 8) to get the rest of the car ready. :). Pricing was pretty good at ~1250 for the pair of shafts.
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Fuel pressure regulator installed. This is looking up from under the car. There is a big skid plate/chassis shear plate that covers this area, eventually.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030724090418-142821161.jpeg)
Ghetto half-shaft build for mockup (didn't need to be straight/strong, just good enough to make sure it didn't bind anywhere in suspension travel):
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030724090410-14276553.jpeg)
And assembled. Something with my camera makes this look much more bent than it is, it's not dead straight, but it's less wonky than this looks.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030724090410-142761306.jpeg)
And my breather system. This is a Radium dual catch can with removable drains and dipsticks to check level. I have banjos all around to keep the fittings tight. The front can vents the valve covers, the rear can vents the dry sump tank. Both end up fed back into the intake tract after they filter the oil. I'm also going to put shrink clamps on the "T" fitting between the valve covers as it looks sloppy now and bothers me.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030724090424-142851451.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030724090424-14285432.jpeg)
Edit: updated pictures to not be potato-phone.
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(remote) progress report:
My front suspension has a couple of ball joints that are stuck. Or at least stuck enough that a couple hammer whacks didn't clear them. I ordered up a full ball joint separator kit to allow me to persuade them. Once the the front is stripped, I'll get the poly bushes in, and put the front suspension back in. I need that to put the front inner wheel arches in properly. I need those to find clearance for the air intake tubing.
So, next up will be sorting that out, along with building a better mount for my ECU than my current 'stuffed it into the stock location' system. I'll probably just 3d scan everything then print up a little adapter/brace to hold it in place. It doesn't need anything crazy, just enough to stop it from flopping around. At some point I'll pull the stock mount out and build a better one, but its integrated into the door strut and I'm pretty sure I need to pull the whole fender to get to it, and yeah, that doesn't look fun. So simple it is for now.
I also want to get the skid/shear plates reinstalled to make sure there are no fitment issues there.
Alllllllso starting on "the list" for stuff to do this winter once I've (hopefully) driven the car. Basically "it works, now improve" stuff. Currently that is:
Pull the entire front chassis harness out, strip all extra wiring.
Drop the drivetrain and pull the engine harness. Rebuild a brand new harness with mil-spec wiring/raychem DR25.
Better ECU mount
Redo the middle of the exhaust to get a little better floor clearance.
Finish the CAN gateway (I doubt it'll be done this summer).
3d print a bunch of custom hose brackets to organized some of the hoses in the engine bay a little better.
Build flat floor plates to cover the OEM brake line/fuel line areas and improve the flat floor it came with stock.
Maybe list:
Cobra Nogaro seats with custom stitching to match the OEM interior.
Satin carbon kick plates
Wrap car
KW Coilovers
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Front suspension has been disassembled, soaked in Simple Green and cleaned up. I'll get bushings put in tomorrow and start reinstalling all the suspension/brakes and wheel liners.
I also found a guy that made a nicer CAN translator board than the one I was using, so I'm going to pivot to using his hardware. I still need to write the code, but at least I don't need to mess with the hardware.
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Holy crap I hate putting poly bushings in. The lower front arms have a super annoying bushing that needs a sleeve pressed in, which isn't super fun, and the other bushings are two pieces and pushed in from each side with a lip, so I have to cut the lip off both sides to push them out. Sucky.
Anyway, one side is done, and suspension mostly reassembled. Will do the other one tomorrow and get pics of it put together with the brakes. Fun fact, I realized these brake rotors cost 2.5x more than I paid for my FC when I bought it. Ouch.
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Stupid car is stupid. :P
One of my ball joints is cross-threaded. At least it's replaceable...ish. I'll have to buy a used control arm and press out/press in the ball joints. Dang.
At least the poly bushings are in.
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New bushings are going to be worth all the pain.... so much pain, and annoyance...
Also, holy brake rotor prices. Are you going to go aftermarket for something better and cheaper? I've had to hunt for DB9 second-generation parts and sometimes things are surprisingly cheap, but then you get some brutal prices on rebadged parts like spark plugs or coils.
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These are aftermarket, 2 piece rotors. Save something like 38 lbs. over stock, which is great. In theory it should allow me to any rotor rings that fit the diameter/bolt pattern in the long run, allowing me some more flexibility, though, I expect these should last a while in my usage patterns. And I got them for a good price as part of my engine sale (I sold the drivetrain from the Aston to the company that produces the rotors), but still it was painful!
I received my "new" control arm and pressed out the ball joint. I then cleaned up the threads and made sure it should go together well. This weekend I'll pull the other control back out, swap ball joints and hopefully get the rest of the suspension put back together, and -maybe- get the throttle pedal and ECU brackets built.
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Front suspension back together. These brakes look pretty sweet. :)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-190724104950-142871655.jpeg)
Next up is dropping the muffler, figuring out retainers for the parking brake cables, then putting heat shields back, reinstalling muffler/exhaust "finishers" and finishing rear suspension.
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Nice! The red pops so much, how did you find Velocity AP? I've been browsing some of their items but haven't gone through with anything yet.
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I've bought several items from them, and the owner (Stuart) bought my old drivetrain. Good group of people in my experience.
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Knocking items off the list:
1. Parking brake lines re-secured.
2. Rear exhaust head shielding reinstalled
3. Rear suspension/brakes reinstalled.
4. Passenger rear arch liner has been clearanced for the diff cooler.
5. Both rear arch liners installed.
Working though the ECU mounting bracket. I think I've got a good design that will work, need to TIG up the bracket and final check it, but it SHOULD fit, and put the ECU in the stock location to get some decent airflow (apparently these direct injection ECUs can get a little warm because of the high power injector drivers).
I have a design sorted for the throttle pedal bracket as well, just need to cut out a quick plate and TIG weld it up. The shifter needs a boot as well, so that I can put the center console back together. I still need to wire up the wideband controller and the CAN gateway, and start writing my CAN translator.
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Getting so close I can taste it! Hopefully it will be done next time we go up to the In-laws house so I can come see this thing.
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I just want it back together so I can clean up my garage! It's a disaster and it's making me crazy.
Really I want to drive it/tune it this year, before the weather turns. Then next winter I'd like to drop the drivetrain back out and redo the wiring harness with a mil-spec setup (and gut the extra wiring out of the OEM chassis-side front harness).
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I hear ya. I don't even have a timeline for getting my car back from my buddy who is going to paint it. Hopefully he will get to it within the next few months. I don't want to rush him because I want it done right and I don't want to pay a ton for a paint job.
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Well, Taekwondo World Championships, followed immediately by another tournament, followed by getting absolutely DESTROYED by COVID the past 7 days (still feel like crap today, after a week) has left me zero time for this car. I also had a friend drop off his racecar I need to work on when I can stand up for more than 10 minutes straight.
On a positive note, I'm ever closer to my half shafts being done (hopefully).
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Small update!
I built the bracket for the ECU. Fits in the stock location, removable via both screws and 3M Dual Lock. It's behind the fender liner, with the "fins" on the ECU open to the side fender vent, just like OEM, so she should stay nice and cool, which apparently is a "thing" to some extent with these direct injection ECUs due to the amp load they manage. I also got the Aston fuse box mounted back in place and most of the wiring cleaned up. This is a temporary harness, but probably going to be in place for a year or so before I build a better mil-spec wiring setup.
I also built the brake pedal bracket. It... doesn't really fit. The pedal hits the floor too early. I'm going to try spacing it out 8mm with some aluminum spacers and see if that does it, if not I'll have to hack it up and remake it to adjust the position slightly. Not a huge deal, but a little annoying.
I called and chatted with the shop building my axles today (they told me it'd be ~8 weeks, and that's this week). Actually caught the guy that is designing them. As of today he has the drawings done and is ready to start machining this week. He's also looking into different boots for the Aston side of the axle, as the OEM boots have a metal "cup" integrated into the boot that's really annoying to deal with and makes servicing them super difficult. He's going to look through some suppliers and hopefully find an aftermarket boot that will fit the axle shaft and the "cup" that can just use a normal clamp, which would make servicing in the future a LOT easier. Great service, their only ask was that I bring the car by the shop when it's done so that they can check it out. :D
I need to start finishing the interior electronics (wideband wiring, CAN controller for the gauges) and build a cover for where the shifter comes through the tunnel, then bleed the clutch/brakes and cooling system. I want to drop the exhaust "x" pipe as I've figured out a way to add another 1" of clearance laterally, which will help make sure it's not touching the heat shields, but again, that can wait until the car is on the road. I have my friend's 2JZ Camaro I built in the shop right now (stealing my wife's parking spot) so I need to finish up fixing that (5V circuit issue, I think it's a bad transducer) and get it out of my garage so I can get back to finishing the Aston.
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Okay, progress!
Throttle pedal is in! I took a CTS pedal, straightened out the bend, modified the "lock" on the pedal pad, trimmed the pad down, and attached the Aston pedal pad onto it. I also spaced out the assembly 8mm from the firewall. It now seems to fit in nearly exactly the same place as stock and feels pretty good. As long as I didn't break anything when modifying it, I should be good to go. If I did break it, I now know how to modify it in the future more effectively, haha.
Beyond that, my son helped me bleed the brakes and clutch. I'm not sure they're 100% ready, but they feel pretty good, at least enough to get me started (no pun intended).
Electronics and half shafts are next!
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Don't you love when you think "I wonder if X part exists, because it would make my life easier?" and then the part does it exist?
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-030924093435-14299176.jpeg)
I need to tap into the CAN output from the factory connector and don't really want to tap the wires while sitting under the dash upside down. So, boom, pass through OBDII cable with CAN outputs that I can run to my microcontroller, which will then tap into the OEM engine CAN bus (the OBDII plug now connects to the GM ECU, not the OEM chassis wiring). Just a slight reduction in effort, but if it saves me an hour fighting to tap into these wires for 20 bucks, I'll take it.
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Got off my butt and started work on the CAN control system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrylmK2fMo
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Did a little more work on the CAN controller. I can now sweep both the tachometer and coolant gauges. Next up is reading OBDII from the GM ECU and translating that to the Aston output.
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GM CAN has to be online somewhere right?
I know MaxxECU fully supports the c6 Vette over can.
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Oh, yeah, I'm just going to read standard OBDII RPM and ECT out, I've got all of the values and offsets, etc.
I need to get the cooling system bled and a few other things done so that I can let the car run long enough to sanity check all the settings, but it should be pretty straightforward. I already have code I've written for other projects that I should be able to crib off of for most of what I need. I honestly expected the CAN integration to take more than a few hours of poking around at it, but I guess after doing 5-6 similar software projects it gets easier.
If anyone wants to look at my ugly, no idea what I'm doing code, it's here: https://github.com/analoghan/AstonMartinVH_DashCAN
Please remember, I use fast microcontrollers because I write slow code. Hahaha
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Started reworking my intake piping as my initial design and the wheel liner have a strong disagreement on real estate. I figured out how Aston ran the dual intakes OEM and modified the fiberglass brackets to allow a 4" pipe (vs. the 2.75" stock intake piping) and started redoing the actual intake pipe. I have it routed in a way that I think will work, but decided to whack my thumb on my brand new bandsaw blade (metal kicked, and I was feeding it in a stupid way, I know better...). Needless to say I have a REAL GOOD slice in my thumb (pretty sure I cut my left thumbnail in half), so I'm calling it for today.
Once I get back to the intake and finish it all up, I should be able to final install the intake piping, then the front wheel liners. I need to build a quick screen in the rear arch to protect the diff cooler and then those should be done. I think I fixed oil leak from my Improved Racing oil cooler/thermostat. I'm slowly running out of tasks on this thing before it's ready.
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Coming along nicely! With how expensive new cars are..... building one these days actually makes sense ;)
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When I started the conversion, I was 50/50 on selling it and buying an R8 V10 Plus (or a Gallardo). I actually ended up sticking with the Vantage and doing the swap because I went to an event with our local driving club and there were like 4 R8s there and no Aston Martins. And I just can't see myself driving a Lambo around.
This car will probably have about 85-90k in it at the end of the conversion (including other mods like the ICE upgrades, carbon interior, suspension, brakes, etc.) which is a lot, but less than half of a new Vantage and I think this one looks better anyway. I do want to do upgraded seats, upgraded coilovers and either paint or wrap the car, so I suppose I'll still need another 10-15k before it's "done". STILL cheaper than most cars that will combine the performance and appearance of this one.
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Air intake tubing is done, clearanced/moved things around to make it fit in roughly the OEM path/location. Filter is a ridiculous mega K&N and the tubing is all 4" (the Corvette guys seem to want 5" setups, but I just cannot make that fit in this chassis). Either way, it's bigger than the throttle body, and the air filter should feed a jet engine. Most critically, the filter fits behind the front bumper and in front of the inner fender liner, getting it all out of the engine bay and protected from the elements/water and the pipes are wrinkle black so it looks cool.
I need to tweak a couple things in the passenger front wheel well and put that liner in, and add a screen in the rear for the diff cooler, then start getting the plates under the car in.
Axles are apparently still a couple weeks out, but hopefully will be here before October. This weekend's goal is to finish the wheel liners and the main plate mods for the front, and sort out bleeding of the water system so that the car maintains temperature.
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This car is going to be so awesome when its done. What color are you thinking for paint/wrap?
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Cobalt blue or something like the Mazda Soul Red.
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Intake progress; The bungs are for the crankcase and dry sump ventilation, to try and keep the car from smelling like oil vapors. It runs through the pictured catch cans (one for each). If I get any oil through it into the intake/throttle body I'll just vent them to atmosphere and cap these, but I'm going to try it this way first.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170924213616-143022433.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170924213615-143021969.jpeg)
Lots of plumbing to make this all work...
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170924213602-143002470.jpeg)
But it hides under the front engine bay cover/ducting nicely:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-170924213603-143001264.jpeg)
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I'd go with the Aston Colour Cobalt Blue.
Snug fit but looks like it's supposed to be there.
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Thanks! This is basically the path the OEM piping took, so it -kinda- was supposed to be there, just not 4" in diameter.
Cobalt blue is the leader right now. I apparently like blue cars.
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I have a small can of that paint I bought to use as a sample when I was shopping for colors for the FD. I could send it to you if you want.
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I'm in no position, time wise, to embark on a repaint right now, so I better not put any bad ideas in my head. Hahah
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Went out to work on the Aston and ended up spending a few hours cleaning the shop. It's not clean, but it's less dirty, at least.
I did make a little progress; so I had previously added a couple "add ons" to the OBD plug. The little inline plug that breaks out CAN data from the plug, and a little 90* relocation kit that moves the actual plug to the passenger footwell. To connect everything up I built a small harness that connects the CAN in from the ECU, CAN out to the chassis, AC input from the chassis, an output that lights up the "start button" red and 12V/Ground.
These then run to the "electronics crap I need in the footwell" which are:
1. CAN translator
2. AC signal CAN adapter (this should be temporary, I just need to reverse engineer this signal and I can do this with the CAN translator I built)
3. Wideband
4. CAN output from the wideband to my HP Tuners MPVI3 box
The CAN translator will run the dash, and will also turn on the "start button" LED (lights up red) when I press the clutch in and the engine RPM is <250 (since it knows engine RPM). This will emulate stock behavior in the car.
The AC signal CAN adapter just looks for a ground signal and sends CAN to the ECU to enable AC, basically emulating a stock BCM/HVAC module. I plan to snoop this eventually and just code that function into my CAN translator so that I can simplify things.
The wideband is a Spartan V3 with an LSU ADV sensor. It has a CAN output that runs to the HP Tuners so that I can track the wideband with that. I might add a gauge at some point, but right now I don't have anywhere good to put one. My current theory is that I might built a little round OLED panel that goes where the stock "gear indicator/shift indicator" in the dash is, and integrate wideband, shift light, and a few others functions into it. That's a "later" thing though.
I need another "add a fuse" to tie into the stock chassis electronics module/fuse box to power this stuff. Once I get that, I'll finish wiring it up and get it all installed.
Next up is bleeding the cooling system. I'm sure I have a bubble somewhere as temps go up above 210 and don't seem to be controlled by the radiator/ridiculous cooling fans I have. I have a vacuum bleeder, but the issue is the car uses an expansion tank that has a weird cap that I don't have an adapter for in my kit. My plan was to just get a cap and drill/tap it for one a fitting like my vacuum kit uses, but turns out that Aston Martin caps are... 125 dollars. Screw that, I guarantee they didn't make them.
Little searching later and... yep, Jaguar and Ford Europe both use these caps, but in 100kpa instead of 150 kpa rating. I'm not concerned about that, since I plan to drill a hole in it anyway, so 9 dollars later on Amazon I have a Jaguar X-type cap to sacrifice to make a vacuum adapter.
Hopefully my axle shafts are done soon, as I'm almost out of things to do before "turn insurance back on and test drive it".
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AXLES ARE DONE. Yay.
Well, shafts are done. I have to build up the axles now. The shop was awesome and got me some boots that fit the Aston outers. The OEM outer boots had rings that press fit onto the outers and SUCK to deal with. So these are way better.
Started building the axles, got one C6 inner installed, need to press the other one apart and do it. Man, CV axles are a gooey, gross mess. Nothing like fighting with snap ring pliers covered in slippery poop.
Anyway, will get those put together this week and hopefully get the car on the ground with half-shafts in this weekend. I also built the vacuum cap adapter and it seems to work, so hopefully I can the cooling system fully bled/degassed. I really want to drive this thing, at least around the block once.
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Getting it on the ground will be a huge payoff. Make sure you get some video of your first lap around the block!
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Getting it on the ground will be a huge payoff. Make sure you get some video of your first lap around the block!
I will have my professional camerawoman, Mrs. Digitalsolo, on hand. Her video of my first Mustang drive pops up in my Facebook memories from time to time and it's fun to see how far things have come from then!
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Axles are in. I was going to make a video of building them, but it would have basically been 2 hours of profanity while covered in moly grease. What a horrible job that is.
Anyway, they're in the car, and turning everything by hand looks smooth, the axles run true and they don't seem to hit anything, so wins all around so far. My fill plug on the diff is jammed up pretty good (murdered my allen key trying to get it loose). That would be a huge issue, but handily it has a cooler so I can just fill it via the fluid return, so, that's what I did. Next time it's out I'll get that plug loose.
Next up is a bolt check, tightening the axle nuts and doing a "does the clutch work" test. Then I should be able to put wheels on and drive it around the block.
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Servicing CVs sucks. When I built my Ronin axles, I looked like the Tinman. I'm pretty sure my snapring pliers will never rust now, though.
Is clearance the issue for the fill port, or is it just the hex got mangled?
For DCTs, people use AN banjo fittings and fill from under the car with a transfer pump. Some people (myself included) use small Jiffy-Tite dry break fittings so you can overfill past time point of the fluid leaking back out of the fitting. Probably not ideal for a transaxle, but the DCTs like being overfilled. The banjo definitely frees up clearance since the fitting points down.
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It's a combo issue. I have very little clearance to get anything but a key on it (can't use a bit on a wrench) and it twisted the one I put on it. Hex in the actual plug is fine. I am sure I'll have the drivetrain moved around at some point and I'll hit it with a propane torch for a bit and put a better hex bit on a socket wrench and it'll be fine.
I actually did a sorta similar thing. The return for the diff coolant pump is high on the side of the diff so I just put an AN fitting on my transfer pump and pumped it in that fitting. The transmission has separate fluid and filled up just fine.
I adjusted my e-brake, so that I could lock the rear hubs and torque the axle shafts (and so that I have a working e-brake...) and torqued down the rest of the rear suspension. I then jumped in and fired the car up and made sure nothing made terrible noises (so far, so good) and tested the clutch and forward/reverse gears. So far, so good. I have gears!
I need to get the wideband going before I run it too long, and see what fueling looks like. It smells a little rich, but I didn't run it up to temp, so that's not shocking. Hopefully a few hours on Sunday and I can at last back it up/forward in the garage, anyway.
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I've been meaning to look into the ADV sensors. How do they compare to the 4.2 and 4.9?
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The ADV is supposed to be a little more durable, a little more accurate and a little faster. It was only a little more expensive, so I am trying one. :D
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MaxxECU uses the 4.2 almost exclusively because it's more robust than the 4.9. I wonder if the hardware exists to got to the ADV....hrm.
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I drove it!
A solid 4’ forward and backward in the garage. Haha
I have a rattle in the clutch/front of the torque tube area when it’s in neutral with the clutch engaged (no pedal). Pressing the pedal fixes it, bringing RPM up fixes it. It’s not in the engine at least. It seems like the cam surge at idle causes it. Wonder if they left something loose in the torque tube internally?
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I drove it!
A solid 4’ forward and backward in the garage. Haha
I have a rattle in the clutch/front of the torque tube area when it’s in neutral with the clutch engaged (no pedal). Pressing the pedal fixes it, bringing RPM up fixes it. It’s not in the engine at least. It seems like the cam surge at idle causes it. Wonder if they left something loose in the torque tube internally?
Congrats on the first drive. :D :poke:
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I think I posted about this before, but I've been looking into the rattle I have at idle with the clutch out (so neutral, no clutch engagement) and apparently it's pretty common with unsprung, twin disc clutches and especially with a decent cam and an aluminum flywheel, and it's gear rattle with the engine pulse. It's... louder than I'd have expected, but doesn't sound like "oh no, the car is coming apart".
I'll keep an eye on it, but it immediately goes away when I press the clutch (made me think throwout bearing at first) or if I bring RPM up at all (made me think not throwout bearing, haha). I obsessively measured all of my distances and everything is new, the torque tube was built by RPM, who definitely know their stuff, all its guts are new (ceramic bearings, upgraded couplers, new hardware) and the internal propshaft is a DSS unit and balanced, so again, all of that should be good to go. I think the best test will be "put it in netural with clutch released while rolling at speed" as that should minimize gear rattle and isolate the possible causes.
Anyway, just paranoid. If it is indeed "ok" I'll put some sound deadening in the tunnel/floor/on the torque tube and see if that shuts it up a little bit. Maybe next clutch will be a steel flywheel and sprung discs, LOL.
Going to try to get a hand on the car this week and finish testing the electrical work and re-bleed the brakes (they feel very... bad... currently) and test the cooling system a bit more.
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Which clutch do you have? This is my roman empire.
I'm onto my third clutch.
Just wait till you run it uphill in 4th at 1800 rpm. Hope for your sake it isn't as bad as what I experienced in the FD. In my tin can it felt like the car was going to shake apart.
I started with an LT1-S twin, moved to an RPS BC2 clutch, and now I have a Tilton sprung hub and strapped floaters clutch lol.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/O968KfqG2pU
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Also, fwiw, my old stock C5Z with very low miles used to make a hell of a racket at idle, especially after getting off the freeway. Would sit at the stoplight sounding like parts were falling out the bottom lol. Other times it was perfectly smooth.
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Twin or triple disc without strapped floaters are obnoxious. Had one. Do not recommend unless race car.
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You all make me feel better, haha. It threw me because I've never had any noise in past setups, but I also ran smaller cams and I think most (all) of my clutches were sprung disc.
Clutch is a McLeod RXT with aluminum flywheel.
FWIW, I'm used to floater rattle with the clutch in; my Mustang (Spec Billet Super Twin) rattles like a damn dry clutch Ducati when I have the clutch down. The Aston confused me because it rattles with the clutch out, but is silent with it in.
I'm hoping to get the car out and around the block next weekend, it'll be interesting to see how it feels/sounds not in an echo chamber of a garage. I started it up for my wife yesterday and her comment was "did it always sound like that?" but she was talking about the exhaust note, which is pretty high pitched on the Aston due to the muffler setup and x-pipe. (And yes, it did always sound like that). That was actually my goal as it pretty closely mimics the Aston stock note, minus the clear cam lope at idle. I can also definitely smell the high flow cats (200 cell) but hopefully it'll smell a little better once they get hot enough to fire off.
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Congrats on the first drive! Definitely upload a sound clip once it's out of the shop. It's always interesting to hear LS engines with non-standard LS-car exhausts. Duals to an X-pipe and straight-through dual mufflers usually ends up sounding Corvette-ish. It'd be cool if it keeps some Aston character.
+1 for the clutch rattle. My Monster LT1-SC sounded like the engine was hitting the firewall at certain RPMs on cold start or that dreaded 1800rpm harmonic. I had the flywheel balanced twice thinking something was wrong lol.
Any guesses for what the new setup weighs?
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I have scales, I just need to set the car on them. I'll do it sometime soon. I am guessing it's within 50-60 lbs of stock, so somewhere in the 3400-3500 lbs range.
Ran the car for ~15 minutes today. Oil pressure looked good, everything sounds good. Coolant temps stabilized at 194-196, checked the tune and it's setup for a 190* stock thermostat and 194* cooling fan "start" at 30% duty cycle. I have a 160* stat so the tune will need adjusted a bit, but the big thing is it worked properly (yay for vacuum bleeding with my custom cap I built). I also watched the temp come up to ~183* then drop to 172* and creep back up, which I'm pretty sure was the thermostat opening.
I took a couple of 1 minute videos of the car idling, but my phone apparently chose not to record any audio, so it's just 2x 1 minute videos looking at a bumper and an engine, so that's not helpful. The tune needs some work on idle as the target is 800 and it's hunting around between 650-950, typically on the lower side so she's a choppy sucker right now. The idle sounds pretty "Corvette" but the tune gets a lot more shrill as the RPM comes up which sounds much more like an Aston.
I did have some smoke wafting around the garage and cabin, but this is the very first time the car has come up to temperature, at least the first time it's run >2 minutes, so that's not super concerning. I'll take a look underneath it before I take it out to make sure nothing looks hot/scorched, but all of the OEM heat shields are still in place so it should be fine. I did clean EVERYTHING with multiple cleaners, so that's probably what I'm seeing/smelling. Nothing appears to be leaking, which is a good start.
I ordered the stuff I need to hook my vacuum pump to the brake master, and I need to re-bleed the brakes again, but once that's done, it should be "check for loose wires/bolts/etc." "fill tires" and "reactivate insurance" and then take it out for a test drive. I want to put some miles on it (assuming wideband numbers look good-ish) and debug it before taking it for the dyno/street tuning.
Oh, BTW, this blower sounds awesome. I was worried I wouldn't be able to hear it, but I definitely can. :D
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Small things; finished the vacuum feed to the booster and hooked the pump back up. Done. Also took out the shifter cover plate and put some sound deadener on the torque tube, shifter shaft, and shifter plate, and made some small adjustments to better seal up the shifter plate. We'll see if the sound deadening does anything at all, LOL.
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You all make me feel better, haha. It threw me because I've never had any noise in past setups, but I also ran smaller cams and I think most (all) of my clutches were sprung disc.
Clutch is a McLeod RXT with aluminum flywheel.
FWIW, I'm used to floater rattle with the clutch in; my Mustang (Spec Billet Super Twin) rattles like a damn dry clutch Ducati when I have the clutch down. The Aston confused me because it rattles with the clutch out, but is silent with it in.
Ahh clutch life, not going to lie the noise was one of the main things I was looking forward to eliminating with the 8HP70, that and being able to creep at slow speeds (Think car cruise 4th of july stuff). I do know I'll miss rowing gears SOMETIMES just not ALL THE TIME. Sick build here, I could have never attempted this. Well done and what a sweet ride when done!
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I'm working on a parts list for my winter upgrades on this swap. ASSuming I can validate everything this fall, I plan to redo the engine harness with tefzel (Mil-Spec) wiring, Raychem heat shrink/potted joints and fresh pins in all of the connectors. I'll concentric twist it all as well. The main goal is to move some wires that are closer to the headers than I'd like and getting rid of a bunch of joints from my initial modification of the OEM harness. It also looks cool.
When I do that, I'll also strip the OEM front harness out and cull all of the unnecessary wires. The other "while I'm in there" item is to clean up hose routing on the driver side where it gets a little "busy" in the bay. Either adjust some routing or at least build a bunch of 3d printed/aluminum brackets to keep things a little more organized. Beyond that, I have one power steering line that I dislike the routing of, and I need to get AC working. I might also redo the back half of the x-pipe to try and fudge another 1/4" of clearance on each side.
That's all AFTER I get the gauges working (hopefully make progress on that this week) and get the lower shear plates modified/fitted and start finding any "bugs" in the system. I really am aiming for "perfect" on this car, or at least as close as my funds/abilities allow.
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That small list sounds very time consuming and slightly expensive. I am waiting on my garage to get built before getting my car back from my buddy who is going to paint it. Hopefully I will have a garage before the end of the year.
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That small list sounds very time consuming and slightly expensive.
It is decidedly both. LOL
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You all make me feel better, haha. It threw me because I've never had any noise in past setups, but I also ran smaller cams and I think most (all) of my clutches were sprung disc.
Clutch is a McLeod RXT with aluminum flywheel.
FWIW, I'm used to floater rattle with the clutch in; my Mustang (Spec Billet Super Twin) rattles like a damn dry clutch Ducati when I have the clutch down. The Aston confused me because it rattles with the clutch out, but is silent with it in.
I'm hoping to get the car out and around the block next weekend, it'll be interesting to see how it feels/sounds not in an echo chamber of a garage. I started it up for my wife yesterday and her comment was "did it always sound like that?" but she was talking about the exhaust note, which is pretty high pitched on the Aston due to the muffler setup and x-pipe. (And yes, it did always sound like that). That was actually my goal as it pretty closely mimics the Aston stock note, minus the clear cam lope at idle. I can also definitely smell the high flow cats (200 cell) but hopefully it'll smell a little better once they get hot enough to fire off.
For what it’s worth, my RST rattles as well. Not terrible but it is there. I still like the clutch but would consider going back to sprung if I ever change it out.
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Updated CAN translator code for running Aston Martin VH dash: https://github.com/analoghan/AstonMartinVH_DashCAN/tree/main
"v6" is the new version which adds reading broadcast CAN messages from the GM ECU, processing this into decimal, then processing those values to send to the Aston dash. It's built around a "Gen V" ECU, but should work on at least Gen 4+
I also added a control circuit setup for managing the early (non "emotion") start button. The microcontroller runs an external MOSFET that will connect a ground. This ground can feed the start button to both enable the functionality (make it run the starter) as well as light it up red. The code will disable this feature once RPM reaches a set amount (500 in my case) to turn the light off, just like stock.
My circuit for the above starter control runs through the clutch switch also, so it works like stock. Put key in, turn it to run, press clutch, if car is not running, start button lights up red. Once RPM exceeds 500 (this is higher than the starter can turn it, indicating a running condition) it will disable the ground, in turn shutting off the light and preventing you from engaging the starter on a running engine.
I'll have an update to V6 to add speed output for the dash soon(ish).
This is designed to run on a CANBED Dual (Raspberry Pi 2040/Pico) but is pretty adaptable to any microcontroller with decent memory/CPU speed, from a design perspective. I try to document the code pretty clearly, but you will need to understand CANbus to make any changes.
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So my CAN controller isn't running the gauges; looking at the logs it's not getting CAN data from the GM ECU for some reason. I'll tone that out and see, but that shouldn't be too big of a deal.
I spent some time today and put the rest of the fender liners in, built a screen to cover the diff cooler on the driver rear liner, modified the front undertray for my slightly larger than stock oil cooler ducting and reworked the rear shear plate to clear the TR6060/Diff. All of that is bolted in. I tried to weigh the car but I'm an idiot and set it on the scales before I zeroed them, so we'll do that again shortly.
I did manage to take the car around the block. Power steering did some weird stuff right at the end where the assist didn't feel right, and the idle RPM is too low. Wideband says my fueling isn't too far off, so that part is good news. Clutch feels "ok" and the blower is LOUD, which is fun. Brakes seemed weird playing in the garage but seem okay driving it around. Still getting weird smells, vibrations, etc., but I suppose that's to be expected.
Oh, and (cool, but not fully cold) idle video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8L_bja3LE
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you could have Zeroed the scales with the car on it then drove it off the scales and took the negative number :D
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you could have Zeroed the scales with the car on it then drove it off the scales and took the negative number :D
I thought about that right after I took the car off the scales. Haha.
I'm working on the CAN translator right now. I had it "ready" but it turns out that microcontroller I was using can't handle the data transmission rate from the GM ECU, or at least I can't find a way to make it do so. So I'm swapping to a different controller. I had a RPI2040 based "CANBED Dual" initially. I'm going to go to a Teensy instead. The failure mode on the Pi2040 setup was annoying as it worked on the bench, but once I slammed a TON of CAN data into it via the GM ECU, it would choke and start sending data once every 5-6 seconds instead of 20 times/second. That's not helpful.
I already ported my code to run on a Teensy 3.6 (I had one of these in a drawer from a past project), but I have a Teensy 4.0 coming. The RPI2040 is ~133 mhz, the Teensy 3.6 is ~160 mhz but the 4.0 is 600 mhz. More faster means I can deal with my crappy coding skills more effectively, haha. The good news is the root of my code doesn't change, just a few details on how I write out/read in CAN data.
I'll test out my 3.6 "beta" version later this week/weekend, and get the Teensy 4.0 setup in the car once I get all the bits (I need DC power converters and CAN transceivers that are coming from Europe). Either way, these Teensy controllers let me set hardware filters and mailbox controls for the CAN data, which lets me solve the "overrun" issues of the Pi2040. I tested my initial code with 100,000 messages sent at 1ms intervals and it managed all of these, recorded their IDs/data and continued sending RPM, ECT and warning light controls throughout, so I'm cautiously optimistic this is the solution I need.
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Love the plate! :D
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I just got a chance to watch/listen to that video. Damn! That sounds wild coming out of an Aston. Love it. I have always loved the Vantage. I was planning on buying a Porsche Cayman S in the spring as a fun 3 pedal daily but might have to bump the budget up a little and see if I can find a Vantage.
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I just got a chance to watch/listen to that video. Damn! That sounds wild coming out of an Aston. Love it. I have always loved the Vantage. I was planning on buying a Porsche Cayman S in the spring as a fun 3 pedal daily but might have to bump the budget up a little and see if I can find a Vantage.
A bunch of the Aston guys are upset because it sounds like a "muscle car" and now it's ruined. They sound like rotary guys, LOL.
Vantages are about as cheap as they've ever been. You can get a mid mileage (~50K) manual early Vantage (06-09) for under 40K in nice condition right now.
Love the plate! :D
Thanks! It was between that and "UNCVLZD" but "BLDDY EL" won the wife vote, haha.
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A bunch of the Aston guys are upset because it sounds like a "muscle car" and now it's ruined. They sound like rotary guys, LOL.
Vantages are about as cheap as they've ever been. You can get a mid mileage (~50K) manual early Vantage (06-09) for under 40K in nice condition right now.
Haha yeah I bet they do. Well enjoy your "ruined" car.
I have been watching them closely over the past few months. Hopefully I can snag one in March/April/May time frame.
There was a R-titled one that sold recently for $28k, in Washington, it was super low miles. I found pictures of the wreck/damage and saw what it sold for at auction as well and it really wasn't bad. I wasn't ready to buy anything when that one was for sale though.
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Took the car on a short drive today. Driver side halfshaft came apart and stranded me. Took the pieces out and flat towed it home. Scraped the garage door frame slightly pushing it in and scuffed my fender and put a tiny crack in the reflector.
Cars, man. LOL
Buffed the fender mar out and I wanted to get smoked reflectors instead of the OEM orange ones anyway. I'll figure out what's going on with the half-shaft another time. I'm done for today.
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Holy crap, glad it didn't come apart at high speed, that could have torn some shit up.
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Nothing in it failed, it just unseated. Now... how that happened, I'm unclear. Going to do some measurements before it goes fully back together and see why it would do that. In theory, shouldn't be possible, so maybe I mis-measured something. At least the other one didn't do the same.
On a positive note, the CAN translator I wrote for the gauges is sorta working (tach works, temp doesn't) and the engine temp seems to be behaving itself.
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Holy shit! Sorry about the drama man.
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Eh, it's all good. Nothing catastrophic and easy enough to fix. The fender is a bit annoying, but heyo, I won't do it again (probably).
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never a dull moment! Glad it wasn't worse.
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So, I've been out of town the past few weekends for martial arts stuff, but that's settling down, so back to progress on the Aston.
First up, my new, new microcontroller for the dash/etc. came in. It's just a faster version of the Teensy, which was "version 2" of the hardware. Good news is it's super compact. I assembled the CAN transceiver, voltage controller and wired it all into my CAN harness. I need to update the modules in my code again to work with the newest version (this one is 600 mhz vs. 150 mhz and has a bunch more capability), but the core of the code should stay the same. I did get to verify that the tachometer works properly with the (v2) controller in place, but temp doesn't. I know my temp output, so it must be what I'm reading from the GM side. Easy enough to fix. I need to get speedometer working too.
On the "half-shafts fell off" side, I ordered a C5 Z06 halfshaft to look at what the tulip side looks like, but it's shorter (the tulip that seats into the diff), so that's no help. I do want to see what it looks like internally though, I'll tear it apart this weekend. I have another C6 Z06 half-shaft en route now. My plan right now is as follows:
1. Clean up the inner tulip and assemble without inner boot
2. Remove coilover from suspension, and install half-shaft
3. Cycle suspension and measure movement of inner tulip
I suspect it just gets a tiny bit too far out in certain positions (aka my axle shafts are slightly too short). If so, I have a "plan B" that isn't "buy new 1500 dollar shafts". Time will tell if it's stupid or not, haha. Plan B is to cut the last inch off my spare donor "tulip" and weld it to the existing tulip. That will certainly weaken the very edge of the tulip, but it really only needs to provide a little more "throw" for the inner tripod under certain circumstances and would never be putting full load in the welded/added area (since 2/3 tripod bearings would always be in the "original" part of the tulip).
I'll see how the suspension movement impacts location though, and will go from there. Worst case scenario there is another option with a company that makes custom inner stubs that bolt on Porsche CVs and might work for a customized setup, but we'll worry about that when we get there. I can also shift the drivetrain forward 1/4", which might help a TINY bit, but won't likely solve the whole issue.
Unrelated I'm putting together parts to rebuild the harness for the engine with a mil-spec setup, so that will probably be another winter project.
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Do you have enough spline engagement to just throw a spacer between the outer CV and the hub in the wheel bearing? It'd act similar to what lower BMW guys do by adding a spacer between the diff hub and the inner CV for lowered cars that have the same issue.
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Hmm, fair call. I have a fair bit of engagement on that side. That is certainly easier.
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Pulled apart C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 CVs. C5 Z06 has a 6 ball "CV" style inner, which also has plunge and uses a snap ring to prevent it pulling out. C6 Z06 has a tripod setup instead. The C5 setup is about 1" shorter (the "tulip" side) and has a coarser spline with similar diameter.
Random fun facts. I have a lot of CV bits now, haha. I cleaned up the existing axle I had and a tulip and will do the mock up of the shaft this weekend and see what solution solves my issue. I'm optimistic this will be annoying, but solvable. At least these Vette shafts are dirt cheap, particularly with torn boots, etc.
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So, I figured out a bunch this weekend.
The good news. Well the good news is I figured out a bunch. That's about it.
The bad news. When I measured these shafts, I made an assumption. That assumption was, the maximum point of extension was full droop. Fun fact. That is exactly wrong. Maximum compression of the shaft is full droop. That's not great news.
I built a custom "tulip" out of two donors and the shaft actually runs really nice in it, and it all lines up dead true and runs great. And I don't trust it one bit with a welded joint. It'll fail at some point and strand me. Maybe with 350 HP I'd try it, but I'm not trying it with 700 RWHP/TQ.
I mean, the good news is I have an excellent set of example axles to build the new ones off of, I guess. That was an expensive assumption. Anyway, I'm going to tear both sides back apart, make an "adjustable shaft" out of my original welded together mock up, clean all the grease out of all of it, and mock it back up, on each side, and run through the full travel with the adjustable shaft until it's perfect.
Oh well, it's only money, right? Right? :P
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So, I figured out a bunch this weekend.
The good news. Well the good news is I figured out a bunch. That's about it.
The bad news. When I measured these shafts, I made an assumption. That assumption was, the maximum point of extension was full droop. Fun fact. That is exactly wrong. Maximum compression of the shaft is full droop. That's not great news.
I built a custom "tulip" out of two donors and the shaft actually runs really nice in it, and it all lines up dead true and runs great. And I don't trust it one bit with a welded joint. It'll fail at some point and strand me. Maybe with 350 HP I'd try it, but I'm not trying it with 700 RWHP/TQ.
I mean, the good news is I have an excellent set of example axles to build the new ones off of, I guess. That was an expensive assumption. Anyway, I'm going to tear both sides back apart, make an "adjustable shaft" out of my original welded together mock up, clean all the grease out of all of it, and mock it back up, on each side, and run through the full travel with the adjustable shaft until it's perfect.
Oh well, it's only money, right? Right? :P
Damn, Aston kind of gotcha there. :banghead:
Maybe this is a good time to narrow the rear and add some mini-tubs? :poke: :poke: :chug:
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Damn that's brutal! At least you figured it out.
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That's brutal. At least you might get a price brakes on axle set #2 if the shop saved the cutting profile from the first set!
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Haha, yeah, big old oops. In my martial arts training, they have a saying "Sometimes you win, and sometimes you learn". This was a learn. LOL. Oh well, it's still cheaper than paying a shop to do this stuff, and you can guarantee I'll never make that mistake again (should I ever need to measure axles again).
I may or may not use the same shop, mostly because it took them 12 weeks to build these. I suppose I'm not in a big hurry with winter and all though, and they did nice work, so perhaps the timeline doesn't matter.
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I talked to a guy who's building Super 8.8" IRS kits for Z-cars and he uses this shop. I'm not sure how flexible or fast they are, but might be worth asking. IIRC, it was under $1k for a pair, but he's also ordering multiple sets at a time.
https://summersbrothersracing.com/
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I will add them to my "Talk to these guys" list. I'm looking at Dutchman, CVJ, Branik (my local guys) and I'll put Summers on that docket as well. Going to get them measured this coming weekend so that I know 100% what I need, and then start checking with places. My current "guess" is I'm ~1.75" too short. We'll see how close I am. I added 1.75" to the tulips and it works great, so "in theory" the axles need the same, but I want to be sure my "plunge" isn't too aggressive.
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Is your setup bolt on like the euro and Nissan stuff? A spacer maybe. Drift guys use them all the time as adapters to run 350z axles since they are everywhere and cheap.
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No, it’s integrated on both side. Spacers would be a lot easier but not viable unfortunately.
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Well, I'm looped into building a new harness for a friend's car, which is going to slow down this project. But since I have to wire another car...
...I'm going to see if he wants to do a Mil-Spec harness in his, and then he can pay by buying my harness supplies to redo the Aston harness properly. Because, escalation, of course.
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AHAHAHAHA
I'm glad I did mine concentric Tefzel but sooooo much work and mat cost.
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So, my existing axles are 47mm (1.5") too short. I built a new mockup axle (out of my old mockup axle) and tried a 2" increase and it could JUST bottom out if I extended the suspension about 1.5" below real max droop. So I cut it down to 1.5" and the suspension movement binds in droop before the axle bottoms out (about 1/4" of depth left) and ran it up way past where the wheel would hit the inner fender (and shock would bottom out) and it can't come close to ejecto-halfshaft-cuz status.
I'm going to tear the passenger side apart and test fit it as well. The transmission is centered, and the distances are the same, so this should be unnecessary, but at 1200 dollars a shot, I'd like to not build another "test set"...
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Progress! Hopefully you can get a little test drive before the roads get salty.
How did you order the axles? Did you need a spec'd-out drawing with spline fit callouts and tolerances, or was it as easy as just calling out the make, model, and length?
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I have a local place that does custom axles. I just dropped the stuff off and they called me when it was done.
Now I get to go back and see if they still have the CAD drawings, haha.
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Glad I checked each side separately.
The transmission appears to be offset to the passenger side just under 1/4", which means the optimal length of the halfshafts is about 3/8" different side to side. I absolutely could split the different and run the same size on each. The droop that would bottom the "short side" can't happen with the suspension together and the "long side" would not come out. But, I mean, I'm ordering custom axles, and I can make them "perfect" so perfect it is.
For reference the "long side" is actually 1.425" too short and the "short side" is 1.100" too short. So I'll have another set of axles made to those dimensions.
In the "stuff I can't explain yet" the Aston CVs were really stiff when I put them together. The driver side still was when I removed it, and it is mocked up (but has no grease, so not shocking). The passenger side is much less stiff. Weird. I've not torn it apart to see. To be clear, they run VERY smooth when installed, regardless of side. Maybe the passenger side seated better? It's all OEM parts on that side, so we shall see. Learning IRS axles as I go here... :P
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Usually if it's super stiff to the point of being nearly locked the bearing inner race is off by one bearing. Not sure about kinda stiff.
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Oh yeah, I've put it together "wrong" and it locks up totally straight. This definitely moves, and is smooth, just stiff. Think "new ball joints" vs. "used ball joints" difference between them.
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Dropped off the axles to the shop, again. They were sympathetic to my stupidity and didn't make fun of me. :P
In other news, I'm building a new harness for the 2JZ Camaro I built a couple years ago (we're having electronic issues after the engine was rebuilt and we suspect something was damaged in the harness). Since I don't want to do a 3rd harness in that car, we're going all tezel/raychem stuff (not a fully sealed harness, but a high end one anyway). Since I'm buying materials for that, I'm going to do the same on the Aston, which means the drivetrain needs to come back out this winter. That's fine overall as there are a few things I'd like to take care of (weld up a hole and coat the valve covers, etc.).
Plan is this:
1. Recover fluids (since they're brand new)
2. Drop drivetrain
3. Build a new engine harness with some updates to routing. The existing OEM harness ends up tight against the firewall where I have VERY little space, so if I'm redoing it, I'm going to move some things around. It will be concentric twisted tezfel wire, so it should be drastically smaller also.
4. Tear OEM harness out of the front of the chassis, clean up unused wiring. There is a bunch of wiring in the chassis that isn't needed anymore. If I'm redoing some of the wiring, I might as well redo all of the wiring.
5. Weld up old breather hole in passenger valvecover, paint valvecovers black. I might still do aftermarket covers, but we'll see.
6. Re-evaluate A/C hose routing.
7. Re-evaluate power steering pressure hose routing.
8. Design/print/install hose brackets to manage all of the many, many hoses in the car.
9. Reconsidering my fuel pump module. I might just go to a high voltage full time system and kill the PWM OEM controller. Haven't decided yet.
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I have to drop the drivetrain for this other stuff, so I might as well put some +30% injectors in it. I'd like to run E85 in the car to help cool things down and I don't like methanol injection, so...
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So, on the assumption train (all aboard the assumption train!), I had another one to test today.
The drivetrain combo in my car is a little weird, because I have an early(ish) LT4 (2016) with a total bastardization of rear drivetrain (C6 bellhousing, late C5/early C6 torque tube, late C6 Grand Sport transmission and diff). This ended this way because I wanted a TR6060 not T56 trans and the stronger Z06/Grand Sport diff and gearing. The bellhousing and torque tube came from a guy that damaged his torque tube and bought a built one, but he had a first year C6 which apparently had a C5 style torque tube? I dunno, but my torque tube and bellhousing didn't match and I had to build a spacer to get the stack up right. I could not do a C7 transmission as the 7 speed is >1" longer and I don't have that kind of room to spare in the back of the car.
Annnnyway, long story short the C7 ECU expects a hall effect (3 wire) speed sensor for VSS. The C6 has a VR (2 wire) sensor. They make a setup to put a hall effect on a C6 diff (technically it's for the side of a T56, but it could be made to work), but it's about 2" longer than the stock sensor, and I have about 1/16" of clearance (it's a 10 minute job to plug in the damn sensor, I'm going to address that this winter) between the sensor and the trunk floor.
So, I need to put a VR sensor on an ECU that wants a hall effect. Here's where assumption comes in. GM sells an LT4 crate motor with control pack. This control pack, which is also an E92 ECU of the same generation as mine, has an input for a 2 wire VSS. This is on a different pin which is unused on the Corvette ECU. So I wired it up to that. Unsurprisingly I didn't get speed readout on the ECU when I drove the car. Not optimal. But then the question was this: Is this a tune setting, a segment swap, or an entirely different OS required (and if the latter, what else does that impact). I downloaded a crate motor tune, did a compare and found a setting (TOS, aka Transmission Output Speed, hardware). Changed that to match the crate motor and tested.
Works! Speed is WAY low, I put it in 6th (I have no axles just stub shafts right now) and spun it up and it showed like 19 MPH, but it does increase in speed proportionally to output shaft RPM, so I should just need to adjust the pules per mile until it lines up. This is great news as otherwise I was going to have to use the hall input and build a VR -> Hall setup and mess about with all of that which is a PITA.
About time I had a victory. I also have my updated CAN gateway in and validated that all functions now work properly. Tach, speedo and temp read from the GM ECU correctly and update on the dash in real time, control of the engine start button status/enable is correct, and dash "wake up" and control of the ABS and TCS lights work. Victory.
I also played with the idle tuning a bit to try and get it happier. It's not happy yet, but it's much less angry, so that's a good start. The big goal is everything is generally working now, before I rip it apart to build the new wiring harness and put the high flow GDI injectors in. I do need to decide if I want to snag a high output GDI pump and port the blower/throttle body while it's apart, but honestly I'm not sure that ~800 RWHP is better than ~700 RWHP in this car, or at least not sure it's worth $4k, anyway.
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I haven't been on my computer in over a week. Lot of updates there. I was in Auburn for Thanksgiving but didn't have time to make it into FT. Wayne. I need to redo my body harness on my FD in the spring I am not looking forward to that. I will likely try to go Milspec as I work in Aerospace and might be able to get some help from guys at work on that.
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Biggest advice I can say on doing racespec/milspec harness stuff is plan. Then plan some more. If you're going fully sealed, run extra connectors all other place that you might want later. It's very, very sad if you need to make changes. Once you're assembling, test everything 10x. Modifying a sealed connector SUCKS. :)
My new harness won't be fully sealed, since I'm connecting to a stock ECU, but will be all mil-spec wiring and Raychem heat shrink, with all of the joints/ends epoxy sealed/stress relieved. Basically as good as it makes sense to make an OEM replacement harness that doesn't have a standalone on it.
FWIW, my wiring/shrink/pins to build this harness are about $1000 USD in materials. A TXL/braided sleeve harness would be about 300 for the same build.
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Cool find on the VR input. Speed sensors and their 27 flavors are one of the most annoying parts of wiring/setting up aftermarket ECUs lol.
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So anyone running Motec? Kinger? Thoughts? I have zero desire to spend >3000 dollars on a Holley Terminator that I don't super trust and has very limited functions, so that's out. No one else has a good DI setup, and if I'm building a new harness, now is the time to put in a different engine controller. It's only money... right? :)
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...John Reed racing made me a great deal on a Motec setup. :secret: :drive:
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What's the damage? I've always wanted to play with a Motec, but it always seemed like you needed a concierge service tuner to set everting up, tune it, and lock the ECU. I kinda figured the prices were "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" lol
A friend owns a high-end shop and does a lot of Motec installs on GT-Rs and Lambos/R8s. They work awesome, but my bank account statement is missing a few zeros compared to most of his customers lol.
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LOL, $4700 out the door, with a custom firmware that suits my needs and an initial base tune for my platform. Honestly not as bad as I expected.
Other benefit is this stuff holds value, at least that's how I justify it to myself. :P
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And on top of that he just came into Harry's and he ordered 3 T66 turbos, with NOS, and a Motec system exhaust
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So anyone running Motec? Kinger? Thoughts?
I am running the gold box hundred series and it is OEM reliable. Zero issues there, which is nice being in a cold snowmobile and getting pounded on frozen trails. The system is a little old and feels very DOS based with a ok windows GUI. I LIVED off the 10 yr old videos they put out to figure mine out with no need to call tech support. I also bought the Evans Academy training class for $300 I think it was and well worth it. I am very comfortable with the hundred series now.
The new stuff looks much more configurable but you have to buy from a dealer that sells you the firmware, Motec is essentially a hardware provider and wants out of the software support business it seems. Which if you have a great dealer for support I think you will get the best of everything. OEM reliable and full standalone functionality. Myself personally I like what MaxxEcu is doing, reasonable price, near OEM level of reliable, CAN analyzer built in, and great support and upgrades keep coming free of charge (aka 8HP control). When you get Motec Firmware from a dealer you will be tethered to them a little, a little if you need or want something thier firmware doesn't support you will pay to get them to make a new one I believe.
Syvecs has a similar philosophy and I contacted a dealer in the UK who sells a firmware to control a Porsche PDK with a LS engine and had my brain spinning for awhile wanting a 996 911 LS swap so I could have AWD and equal length headers and fast shifting trans, basically everything I wanted in my next project car. Instead I stayed with RX7 and 8HP and gave up the AWD and headers for about $60K less money LOL
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LOL, $4700 out the door, with a custom firmware that suits my needs and an initial base tune for my platform. Honestly not as bad as I expected.
Other benefit is this stuff holds value, at least that's how I justify it to myself. :P
This is awesome, heard great things with John Reed! Curious how you handle the firmware thing, I don't totally understand it as of yet.
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I did some research before following up with John Reed. He's been absolutely fantastic on the pre-sales side, and is doing a little "tweaking" to get me what I wanted. I hopefully won't need a ton of support after the fact (ECUs are ECUs, for the most part) but I'm confident he will be good to deal with.
I do have some limits on what I can do with his off-the-shelf firmware; if I had the ability to customize it myself I could make it do all the CAN stuff I do with my controller. And the IO is a bit more limited than my Haltech, but the ability to mess with my DI tuning myself vastly more easily than the HP Tuners/OEM ECU, and... I don't know, I just really hate dealing with tuning OEM ECUs. I've kinda always wanted to play with Motec, and now seems like a good time. I'm running out of ECUs/companies to play with (BS3, ProEFI, AEM Infinity, ECUMaster, Haltech Elite, Haltech Nexus, Holley Dominator, and now Motec M1 series). Just missing Syvecs, Emtron, Link and Maxx really. I'll let you know how it stacks up with what I've dealt with.
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If you want good DI go EMtron. You'll need to use a pair of dummy Toyota drivers off a BRZ but their fuel model is matched in the aftermarket only by their traction control.
I find spill valve control is the hardest part of DI setup.
The kv8 would be enough unless you wanted to add port injection.
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Link and Emtron were on my "consideration" list for standalone DI. Link has the Voodoo Pro, which can run DI with their adapters and seems like a very advanced ECU, and Emtron looks solid as well. My concern on both of those were the same though. No one has really done the LT4 with them, and I don't particularly want to be a trailblazer. Setting up all of the base tuning parameters for DI is fussy, and I don't expect much if any support from either vendor to dive into the unknown on that. It's the same reason I've not played with MS3 Pro on things, even though I love the ability to customize EVERYTHING.
Basically I don't think either of those would have made my life easier/better than just using HP Tuners on my OEM ECU. The Holley, I just don't trust for some reason, it was very expensive vs. configurability, and I'm not in love with their support. Honestly if Haltech had a DI path, I'd have been all over that as I really like dealing with them.
All that in mind, JRR and Motec have done these, and I've found a lot of good testimonials on their stuff. They have done the categorization ahead of time and were willing to jumpstart me with that, which takes a bunch of time off of my tuning effort.
After some more research (we all research more after we buy... right?) it looks like the firmware I'm running will let me do a little more with CAN than I thought. I might even be able to creatively customize the configurable CAN outputs to negate the need for my CAN gateway. Maybe. I also have a little more IO available than I initially realized. I thought I had exactly what I needed to run my basics, but I have 6x more programmable low side controls, which lets me do some more fancy stuff (and also add more features I was doing in my control box). I can also put an E888 on it and get a few more I/O and 8x EGT, because, why not.
Motec M1 Tune is a little different than other software I've played with, but it seems pretty logical once you sort out the thought process on how you configure the ECU. All of this, of course, is just theoretical until I actually put the thing together and see how it works. There is still a lingering possibility I might do a dev license on the Motec at some point to totally customize things to EXACTLY what I want, but time will tell if the costs justify any small benefits in this chassis/build.
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I can also put an E888 on it and get a few more I/O and 8x EGT, because, why not.
Motec M1 Tune is a little different than other software I've played with, but it seems pretty logical once you sort out the thought process on how you configure the ECU. All of this, of course, is just theoretical until I actually put the thing together and see how it works. There is still a lingering possibility I might do a dev license on the Motec at some point to totally customize things to EXACTLY what I want, but time will tell if the costs justify any small benefits in this chassis/build.
I also run the E888 as I ran out of I/O on my sled. Everything Motec is such high quality, its top of the top for sure. You will definitely feel you got your money's worth and it may even convert you for life! The only thing I need to learn more on is the Firmware, I just can't grasp the concept yet. It feels like a "Map" to use old school terms which would be fine but I just don't know the limitations if any that would piss me off. I can't wait for you to play with it some and get your feedback.
I toyed with a FK8 Type R project ONLY because it had a plug in Motec option which would make everything stupid simple and fun to work on. I actually don't enjoy making harnesses so if I could use the factory crap all programmed in the Motec and I could focus on just my upgrades I was a happy camper. For my LS7/8HP and Maxx I will be wiring it up this winter and not really looking forward to it at all lol.
2:38 of my vid I express my displeasure of the E888 coming with nothing lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lAkMkCQBI&list=PL_NeJWOEYXbJvoPGYOAJTdkA7dkTnijwo&index=26
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Do you know yet if you'll be able to bring in CAN data from at Aston body module, like individual wheel speeds? I'd be sweet to be able to use all the OEM wheel speed sensors for traction control.
IIRC, the GTRs and Lambo/R8 guys are able to use a lot of stuff from the OEM modules to make traction control and driver features work properly. Obvious a high(ish) volume PNP option vs your one-off, but it'd be nice to have the ability to put in the work and do the CAN analyzing yourself.
Have you considered a piggy-back system, using the stock ECU for GDI control, and a standalone as a CAN hub to allow the Aston and LT4 to communicate? You'd still be stuck with HPT for fuel and spark tuning, but would offload all the bells and whistles elsewhere. At least with Maxx, you can make tables and mask data to emulate the CAN addresses an OE ECU or module is expecting to see. Take in data from one OE's module, and repackage to look like what the ECU would expect.
Full standalone may be easier in the end, assuming you can do everything you want.
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LOL, KSV Looms is one of the places I buy a ton of stuff from. I'm the opposite of you in that I don't want any of this stuff to come with harnesses, etc, as I want to make my own and use the specific pins/connectors/seals/etc. that I like. For example, on the M142 I'm using solid pins (not stamped) and plastic backshell extensions for the connectors and 70* sealing boots to route the wires easily. So if it came with connectors I'd have dumped everything but the plastic connector bodies anyway. That's probably why they don't come with stuff.
Still, stark contrast from other stuff, for sure.
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Do you know yet if you'll be able to bring in CAN data from at Aston body module, like individual wheel speeds? I'd be sweet to be able to use all the OEM wheel speed sensors for traction control.
IIRC, the GTRs and Lambo/R8 guys are able to use a lot of stuff from the OEM modules to make traction control and driver features work properly. Obvious a high(ish) volume PNP option vs your one-off, but it'd be nice to have the ability to put in the work and do the CAN analyzing yourself.
Have you considered a piggy-back system, using the stock ECU for GDI control, and a standalone as a CAN hub to allow the Aston and LT4 to communicate? You'd still be stuck with HPT for fuel and spark tuning, but would offload all the bells and whistles elsewhere. At least with Maxx, you can make tables and mask data to emulate the CAN addresses an OE ECU or module is expecting to see. Take in data from one OE's module, and repackage to look like what the ECU would expect.
Full standalone may be easier in the end, assuming you can do everything you want.
I looked at doing a piggyback and it just wasn't worth it to me. If the OEM ECU is doing the fast stuff (DBW, Spark, Fuel) then the rest I can just get out of CANbus at a 20ms cycle time and work from, so why bother "splitting brains" right? All the data I'd need for other stuff is on the CANBus anyway. Plus every ECU is harder to make do what I want with CANbus vs. me writing an Arduino program to do it myself from scratch, EXACTLY as I want it to work.
I'm pretty sure I have the addresses for the CAN data from wheel speed sensors, etc. I think the firmware I ordered can actually input the wheel speed sensors as well. I'll find out. I know I'm capable of writing a package to do all of this stuff also, but I'm not going to "boil the ocean" to start. I can dig into writing custom firmware to do all kind of stuff later; I want to make sure I have everything working before I add 2-3x more complexity. That is probably a winter 2025/2026 season task, assuming I get the current stuff in and debugged this winter/spring/summer, anyway. Scope creep is my enemy (I say as I rip apart a running car with 1 mile on it).
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LOL, KSV Looms is one of the places I buy a ton of stuff from. I'm the opposite of you in that I don't want any of this stuff to come with harnesses, etc, as I want to make my own and use the specific pins/connectors/seals/etc. that I like. For example, on the M142 I'm using solid pins (not stamped) and plastic backshell extensions for the connectors and 70* sealing boots to route the wires easily. So if it came with connectors I'd have dumped everything but the plastic connector bodies anyway. That's probably why they don't come with stuff.
Still, stark contrast from other stuff, for sure.
You do you man! haha I just assumed for $1500 you would get a connector for cry eye.
I don't want to keep whoring my vids here but this was me using i2 which is what you will need for the Motec data logger. Really cool system and I love the tabs at the top for specific things like Boost, Fuel, etc. In this vid I talk about hitting 30+ PSI by accident but using that to show all the data captured. ANNNNND check your damn boost solenoid polarity!!! My god 2 years wasted because I had it on the wrong setting (I show this in the vid too) this may or may not apply in your new box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gmJD6D9EY&list=PL_NeJWOEYXbJvoPGYOAJTdkA7dkTnijwo&index=35
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Adding to the "while I'm in there" list...
Since I have to drop most of the drivetrain/suspension, I'm going to drop the rear subframe as well so that I can drop the tank. I had done a "quick and dirty" solution for the fueling last year, but didn't really love it. Since I'm going to delete the GM Fuel Pump Control Module, I have more pump options, and since I really like my Deatschwerks setup in the Mustang, I'm going to do similar. I ordered a Deatschwerks 810 brushless with a 2 speed controller, so it's 450 LPH at low and 810 LPH at high (it will be slightly less at LT4 72 psi) and I'll use the Motec to switch high/low based on TPS + MAP.
My old setup had a single Hellcat pump, which was probably somewhat borderline for my needs, particularly at stock voltage. So this will outflow that substantially. I adapted the OEM Aston hoses with the venturi setup for drawing out of the secondary bucket in the tank and reused the OEM EVAP line as a return (OEM was returnless PWM). I'm going to get rid of the stock output lines, put a Radium venturi pickup into the return line and then dump both returns into the pump bucket to keep it full and the pump as cool as possible.
I need to drop the tank to add the brushless wiring bulkhead, and I'll probably just drop some AN fittings onto it for the feed/return to get rid of the last bits of OEM fittings and any possible restriction.
Anyway, this should more than cover my needs. I think the only "gotcha" at all will be a need to keep the tank with a fair amount of fuel in it to make sure it doesn't get too hot with the big pump/flow. At least the brushless pumps stay a lot cooler than the big brushed ones do. I think the +30% direct injectors, +32% pump cam and relatively huge return style feed setup should let me run my current setup on E85. I also snagged a Katech ported TB as the OEM TB seems to be a pretty big restriction on the blower.
Wiring came in today, but I've gotta rewire a 2JZ Camaro before I build my harness, so the Aston will probably go under the knife in early/mid January.
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Snagged a few other items for the engine management redesign:
1. Motec 15 key keypad. It will be very helpful for things like launch control, traction control, etc. I love the one in the Mustang, and I'll hide this one in the console so it's not visible. It's super handy to have a simple connection for whatever I want to control on the ECU.
2. Motec E888 - This is a CAN I/O Expander. It's not strictly necessary, as I have just enough controls on the M142, but I found this one for a great price, and it'll let me split interior and engine bay I/O apart, and put less latency critical stuff on the expansion module. Mostly this is me trying to plan ahead for the future in case I want to mess with stuff (because of course I will).
3. Motec LTCD (dual Lambda). I ordered a pair of AEM sensors with the M142, but I found this controller for a steal, so I'll probably just drop this in instead, and resell the AEMs (and my Spartan3 ADV from the HP Tuners/OEM setup)
FWIW, I got all of that for less than retail on an E888, which is why I snagged it all even though it wasn't strictly necessary. I'll build the loom with a few "future expansion" connectors in it when I assemble it and try to take care of "future Blake". ;)
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FWIW, I got all of that for less than retail on an E888
That is a really good deal! Used I assume?
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The E888 and LTCD are used, the keypad was new, but for some reason MUCH cheaper to get directly from Oz vs. ordering in the US.
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I'm basically finished with the 2JZ Camaro re-wire job (and a quick side quest to get a friend's LS3 BRZ running), so I can get to work on this. In my "stuff prep" I did track down a few more things:
1. MoTeC 10Hz GPS. These are 200 bucks normally and someone had one new in box for 50 bucks. Do I need a GPS? Probably not. Is it neat? Yep.
2. CanChecked MFD28. I have been planning on some kind of display to get things like traction control status, launch control status, wideband O2s, flex percentage, etc. easy to see. I wanted a MoTeC D153, but I'm not super interested in one for $2400, so I found the CanChecked MFD28. I can hide it in a vent spot to keep it inconspicuous and program it to read the MoTeC CAN data. I could make my own, but honestly, for the cost of one of these vs. the effort, I'm going to trade some money to save some time. I am still planning to replace the dash "gear indicator" with an RGB shift light based on CAN data that I will make myself.
And, I (probably) have my plans for the "v2" build, which are:
1. Axles that fit and don't fall off. This seems like an important one.
2. Drop fuel tank, build a less janky mount for my Deatschwerks 810LPH brushless pump. Install a bulkhead fitting in tank for the pump. Install bulkhead fuel line fittings to stop using the OEM fittings (and plug those). Add a bulkhead fitting to the rear firewall in the tank area to pass through the wiring for the controller, which will go in (roughly) the OEM location. Add Radium siphon kit to return line and convert internal pump lines to a return style siphon from the second pickup (currently has a siphon on the feed side for this).
3. Get rid of the lower radiator 20AN fitting that I scarred up during install. Convert radiator to an ORB fitting so that if I do that again later I don't ruin the radiator and just ruin one fitting. Swap lower radiator fittings to Quick Connect style because screwing them in where they sit sucks and quick connect probably sucks less.
4. Lower transmission by 1/8" (shorten mount "biscuits") as it's just a little too close to the floor.
5. Install +30% injectors, ported throttle body and PCV blower bypass in the engine.
6. Convert fuel pressure sensor to a LowDoller transceiver. Add LowDoller coolant temp/pressure combo sensor. Add LowDoller MAP for crankcase pressure. Modify intake to delete GM MAF sensor (going Speed Density) and convert for GM screw-in IAT sensor. Add oil temp sensor to dry sump tank.
6. Build milspec concentric twisted harness for the engine. Delete all extra engine wiring (AFM, VVT, etc.). Convert chassis <-> engine harness connection to sealed MilSpec connectors. Delete extra OEM wiring from engine bay.
7. Install MoTeC M142/E888/LTCD/GPS/Keypad. Setup/tune.
8. Build "hidden" mount for CanChecked MFD28 display in driver side HVAC vent. Hide keypad in center console. Build CAN shift light for dash. Figure out if I still need my CAN gateway to run the gauges or if I can make the M142 do it.
9. Modify front shear/skid plate to allow me to change the oil without removing it because that job SUCKS.
10. Install clear sidemarkers and clear bulb lights to match the tails.
I think that's most of it. Good news is I have all the parts for that in hand (minus the axles that are being made. Again). Probably find a few more things in the process. I have a "v3" planned which is KW or Nitron coil-overs, interior roll bar, Cobra Nogaros with leather/matched stitching, later model side skirts and either new paint or a wrap. Blue either way, I like blue. I need to finish the mechanicals/electronics before I screw with interior/exterior though, so that's probably a winter 2025-2026 project.
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Progress. Long, tedious progress. Engine and chassis harness integrations are fully designed for endpoints/splices. Once I drop the car down (Camaro is done, just waiting for good weather so he can come get it) I can measure for lengths. Then I need to figure out layers and branches. THEN I can start building the harness. Good news is the harness is most of the work, fuel system is not terrible (I say now...) and the engine work is easy stuff.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-060125125003-143431433.png)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-060125125003-14343692.png)
I can share my Excel docs I use if anyone is interested.
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I'd take a look. My spreadsheet is a bit rough. Could always use ideas.
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I wouldn't mind taking a peek, currently mapping out mine for the 8HP and LS7 with a Maxx
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Here's the link for the engine harness as an example:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hZO5CNs6LuJKS3ungA63SSuMu7M8jl3f/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=112687364516508832851&rtpof=true&sd=true
You may have to request access, if so I'll add you. ;)
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Question for the crew at large: Sensors. Am I forgetting anything I should be monitoring? Here's what's planned so far:
Left/Right Bank Wideband (MoTeC LTCD, LSU 4.9)
Engine Coolant Temp (LowDoller)
Engine Coolant Pressure (LowDoller)
Oil Temp (Haltech/Universal)
Oil Pressure (OEM)
Supercharger Inlet Air Temp (OEM)
Supercharger Inlet Air Pressure (OEM)
Supercharger Outlet Air Temp (OEM)
Supercharger Outlet Pressure aka MAP (OEM)
Flex Alcohol %
Fuel Temp (Flex sensor)
Low Side (feed) Fuel Pressure (LowDoller)
High Side Fuel Pressure (OEM)
Pan Pressure (LowDoller)
Brake Switch (OEM)
Clutch Switch High and Low (OEM)
VSS (Transmission)
Wheel Speed (All 4, OEM via CAN)
Ambient Air Temp (Adding a second OEM TMAP)
Ambient Air Pressure (Adding a second OEM TMAP)
Transmission Oil Temp (OEM)
GPS (10 hz, MoTeC)
DBW/Pedal Position, Cam position, crank position (Obviously)
I -have- EGT inputs available on my MoTeC E888, but I really don't think that's super necessary and it's probably 900 dollars in sensors and a TON of wiring I don't want to deal with. I don't see a huge need for brake or clutch pressure sensors for my usage, either.
I'm finalizing some parts orders and diagrams and want to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious that I should be monitoring, since adding it later is annoying. ;)
I ALMOST ordered up a MoTeC PDM15 to run the engine, but honestly, I'm not sure I see much benefit. My current plan reuses the OEM fusebox with the OEM relays/fuses doing the same jobs they did stock. Putting a PDM in means I don't have to deal with changing a fuse/relay I guess, but I'll still have that fusebox for all of the OEM jobs. I am definitively not buying the 2x PDM30s I'd need to rebuild the entire chassis with PDM as that sounds like a terrible job and would cost me like 7k which is a lot for giggles.
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Funny that you'd need so many outputs for a new car. The FD was under 30 totally for everything.
I prefer the Honeywell short stainless over the low dollar. Out of the 20 or so I've installed 4 failed mechanically or electrically.
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Wow, that's surprising. I've used a bunch of their stuff and had no issues so far.
I did the output math and yeah, it's a ton. The Mustang has way less.
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One was an output failure. The others were all from the composite top rotating and tearing the wires internally.
Wiper low
Wiper high
Horn
Window up/down 4 outs total
Left blink
Right blink
High beam
Low beam
Running lights
Reverse lights
ECU/injector
Ign
Trans
Lift pump
Main pump
Defrost
Ewp
HVAC
Fansx2
Exhaust valve h-bridge
Ign power
Dash power
A/C clutch
ABS, Starter solenoid and brake lights aren't on the PDM.
I think that's everything?
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On the Aston there are >80 fuses between the front fusebox, rear fusebox and interior fusebox/BCM combo.
Even with a bunch of consolidation, I'd still be 50+ to keep things properly managed. Keep in mind that there are CAN modules for each door, each seat, then seat heaters, seat power, etc. Some can be combined, but many are too high of amperage to split. Same with wipers, HVAC controls, etc.
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That's a crazy number of fuses.
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Question for the crew at large: Sensors. Am I forgetting anything I should be monitoring? Here's what's planned so far:
Left/Right Bank Wideband (MoTeC LTCD, LSU 4.9)
Engine Coolant Temp (LowDoller)
Engine Coolant Pressure (LowDoller)
Oil Temp (Haltech/Universal)
Oil Pressure (OEM)
Supercharger Inlet Air Temp (OEM)
Supercharger Inlet Air Pressure (OEM)
Supercharger Outlet Air Temp (OEM)
Supercharger Outlet Pressure aka MAP (OEM)
Flex Alcohol %
Fuel Temp (Flex sensor)
Low Side (feed) Fuel Pressure (LowDoller)
High Side Fuel Pressure (OEM)
Pan Pressure (LowDoller)
Brake Switch (OEM)
Clutch Switch High and Low (OEM)
VSS (Transmission)
Wheel Speed (All 4, OEM via CAN)
Ambient Air Temp (Adding a second OEM TMAP)
Ambient Air Pressure (Adding a second OEM TMAP)
Transmission Oil Temp (OEM)
GPS (10 hz, MoTeC)
DBW/Pedal Position, Cam position, crank position (Obviously)
I -have- EGT inputs available on my MoTeC E888, but I really don't think that's super necessary and it's probably 900 dollars in sensors and a TON of wiring I don't want to deal with. I don't see a huge need for brake or clutch pressure sensors for my usage, either.
I'm finalizing some parts orders and diagrams and want to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious that I should be monitoring, since adding it later is annoying. ;)
I ALMOST ordered up a MoTeC PDM15 to run the engine, but honestly, I'm not sure I see much benefit. My current plan reuses the OEM fusebox with the OEM relays/fuses doing the same jobs they did stock. Putting a PDM in means I don't have to deal with changing a fuse/relay I guess, but I'll still have that fusebox for all of the OEM jobs. I am definitively not buying the 2x PDM30s I'd need to rebuild the entire chassis with PDM as that sounds like a terrible job and would cost me like 7k which is a lot for giggles.
Do you need anything with AC pressure? I am also not using any EGTs on my ls7 build for the exhaust but I do plan to sprinkle a few EGT probes around the car since they are easy and very accurate, so I will use one in cabin and possibly use logic to kick on AC automatically, I will use one for under hood temps just to see how hot it is and if any thermal management, vented hood, etc. helps.
I wouldn't go PDM in fact I am reusing all the halfspec wiring he did on the power side as it works perfect and no need to go PDM. I would only go PDM if I was starting with no wiring. Just my opinion.
I did request access under my piergenius@gmail email. Thanks!
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Ah, I forgot, I do have an AC pressure sensor in the mix. Too many things to remember off hand. LOL
You should have access now.
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Starting on the (re)build process, finally. Sent the 2JZ Camaro home with my friend, and so far it seems to be happy again with the new harness.
Progress on the Aston is good; I'm not killing myself on stuff just yet, since I don't have the M142 from John Reed yet. As I've done all of this work MULTIPLE times now, I'm at least good at it...
Front suspension is fully removed. Rear suspension is staying (mostly) on, since I need to drop the whole subframe to get the tank out.
I drained the oil into a brand new "contained" drain setup that I pre-cleaned, as I plan to put that oil back in (I'll run it through a paint filter on the way back in to look for any crud, but it looked perfect and has... 1.5 miles... on it). For coolant, I stared at the radiator for a bit, then said 'screw this' and bought a fluid extractor. Wow, wish I had one of these 5 years ago. Top 5 tools for <100 bucks, for sure. Less than 5 minutes and the cooling system was empty and I don't have a mess on the floor, plus I can reload my brand new, not cheap, coolant. Win.
I pulled most of the electrical out to allow that to drop and pulled the exhaust, then drained the supercharger coolant loop. Finally I pulled the parking brake cables and dropped the trans/diff coolers. Next up is disconnecting the radiator/power steering bits (will vacuum evacuate the P/S as well). Then disconnect clutch line and oil cooler lines, and THEN I should be able to drop the drivetrain.
Planning to do that next weekend, and hopefully the Motec will be here the following week and I can get started on the harness. If not I'll get started on the fuel system upgrades and knock that part out.
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Which fluid extractor did you buy for the coolant?
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This one: https://www.harborfreight.com/23-gallon-manual-fluid-extractor-62643.html
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Nice progress. I'm really looking forward to your Motec experience. I'm super jealous of having the ability to do torque demand, especially with a DBW PD blower. You should be able to have infinite control of torque with throttle, unlike turbo stuff that'll push past a partially closed blade and keep making boost. Being able to command torque should make power management and traction control excellent.
Fluid extractors are so handy. I have a gross old one I use for bleeding brakes. It sometimes requires a wrap of teflon tape above the seat on the bleeder screw to keep air from getting drawn around the threads, but it works really well. I've bled every set of brakes and clutch on the car solo.
I think you can rig up a bucket with 2 bulkhead fittings, one to the vacuum source, and another to the thing you're trying to drain. That way it keeps the extractor from getting contaminated if you're doing oil, coolant, etc. I'm not sure how much pressure a bucket can tolerate, but I've seen people use them for dust collectors and they'll stack 2+ buckets inside each other for more strength.
Sounds dumb, but I used two different coolant types for the A2W intercooler (pink) and engine coolant (green). Now I know which one is leaking and where to go looking for loose clamps or fittings.
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Nice progress. I'm really looking forward to your Motec experience. I'm super jealous of having the ability to do torque demand, especially with a DBW PD blower. You should be able to have infinite control of torque with throttle, unlike turbo stuff that'll push past a partially closed blade and keep making boost. Being able to command torque should make power management and traction control excellent.
Fluid extractors are so handy. I have a gross old one I use for bleeding brakes. It sometimes requires a wrap of teflon tape above the seat on the bleeder screw to keep air from getting drawn around the threads, but it works really well. I've bled every set of brakes and clutch on the car solo.
I think you can rig up a bucket with 2 bulkhead fittings, one to the vacuum source, and another to the thing you're trying to drain. That way it keeps the extractor from getting contaminated if you're doing oil, coolant, etc. I'm not sure how much pressure a bucket can tolerate, but I've seen people use them for dust collectors and they'll stack 2+ buckets inside each other for more strength.
Sounds dumb, but I used two different coolant types for the A2W intercooler (pink) and engine coolant (green). Now I know which one is leaking and where to go looking for loose clamps or fittings.
That's a great idea about the bucket.
I'm going to pick up one of these transfer pumps, and I'll get some fittings to rig up some buckets for different materials.
https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-63144.html?utm_source=go&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cpnlink
Actually, I might rig a way to use my pneumatic vacuum brake bleeder to pull fluid into a bucket.
It pulls a pretty strong vacuum, without manual pumping.
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A few things:
1. My firmware doesn't have torque demand tuning (the GPRP paddle shift/trans control firmwares do).
2. I have a little pump that I use for various oils, and plan to keep the "big one" for coolant.
3. That's a good all on the separate colors for ID. I'm using the "one color so I can keep one coolant 'in stock'" theory.
4. The pump model I have only took 3-4 pumps before it pulled most of the coolant out. I was surprised, it didn't take much effort at all.
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Alright, mostly for my own edification, here's my plans for this weekend:
Vacuum drain P/S system
Disconnect P/S Lines
Remove radiator hoses
Disconnect heater hoses (yay, quick disconnects!)
Disconnect Clutch Line
Disconnect AC lines
Pull shifter surround
Pull 12V high amp leads (Alt/Starter)
Drop drivetrain
Start sorting out where I'm going to route the harness. It's VERY tight at the firewall where it routes now, and it occurs to me that when redesigning things, I can... move them.
So now I'm looking at where I want the harness to run, and where I want the ECU to live. Maybe in the OEM location, maybe not. Probably not. More to come... My ECU and my CanChecked MFD28 are supposed to be here in the next week or two, so I'm hoping to get the harness going ASAP. I need to get as much done as possible before April as I'm all over the place (Chicago, South Bend, Dallas, Portugal) in April for martial arts stuff.
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Drivetrain is out. I... may have forgotten to move a coolant pipe out of the way when lifting up/down checking clearance. In other news, I'm going to upgrade to new quick connects on the heater hoses. Definitely not because one is smashed flat. Totally unrelated...
Next up is dropping the fuel tank and doing the pump upgrades. My MFD28 comes in today (excited to play with that) and the M142 should be here in the next couple of weeks.
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Almost forgot; in my effort to sort out some slightly weird clutch hydraulics clearances, I ordered a C5 bellhousing to match my C5 torque tube which came with a C6 bellhousing, which I bought from a guy that took it all out of a C6... weird.
Anyway, I found a good condition two piece C5 bell and I'll measure it up and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't, I'll still use it because I had to hog out a big spot to make the C5 hydraulics clear the C6 bell, and that annoys me. Hopefully it's about 1/8" deeper, and I can get rid of the 1/8" spacer I had laser cut to sort out the "too long" stack height in the hydraulics/clutch. If not, it's an artifact of a Gen V clutch with a Gen III torque tube/hydraulics. Either way it's fine, but I'd like it to be... less weird.
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Clutch hydraulics are one of those things that's tough to nail, annoying when it's not right, and a pain in the ass to fix. Glad you're able to make some changes while everything's out.
Having a swapped car definitely makes you appreciate how much OE engineering when into the clutch system alone. There's a lot to screw up lol.
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Good thing you pulled the engine to get to those heater hose connections so you could put in the disconnect haha :)
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LOL, yeah, whoops. I'm also changing the lower radiator hose since it was a royal PITA to mess with before. Going to push lock and silicone hose instead of stainless braided hose.
I am about 65% done with the engine harness layup. I have all of the engine wiring in place and the main run lay'd up and laced in. I did a small section of heat shrink but won't be able to do the rest until the ECU is in place so that I can sort out exactly how the chassis integration wiring will lay out.
Next up is finishing up the lay up on the branches that run to the engine sensors. Once those are done, I'll put the Raychem DR25 on them, then glue/epoxy seal the branch points, and finally I can put the connectors on.
Once the engine side of the harness is done I'm going to build a few aluminum brackets to hold it in place/support it on the engine so that it can't move out of where I want it. When the M142 comes in I will put the chassis back down on the drivetrain, final measure length (it's a little long on purpose right now) and build the chassis branches and terminate/seal the ECU side. I need to design a bracket for the ECU as well. I'm planning to 3D print one in ABS with TPU for vibration damping.
Mostly I'm trying to procrastinate on dropping the tank and upgrading the fuel system because that's probably going to suck.
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So, remember how I said I didn't see the point of a PDM on this chassis?
Well, I pretty much stole a PDM30. To the point it would be rude to not use it.
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well that's fancy!
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All the race car goodies! That’s awesome.
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See, I like you guys because you say "that's awesome" instead of the reality of "that's overcomplicated, expensive and unnecessary, you big, dumb, idiot."
:D
Also, did you know you need a special USB to CAN device to talk to the PDM, because MoTeC? I didn't. Did you know those are like 250 dollars. I didn't. :gruffy:
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Damn, that's over-complicated, expensive and unnecessary, you big, dumb, idiot. :D :poke: :wave:
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Same reason I don't touch ECUMaster. Such a dumb added expense for what? Because they couldn't bother adding a UART or worse, they wanted to make more money.
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I don’t mind the concept, but I own an ECUMaster USB to CAN as well as a Kvaser Leaf. I am annoyed I can’t just use one of those to talk to it.
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Today was one of those days where you just want to throw some tools...
Finishing up the harness terminations and I had a bad pin (mis-manufactured) that wouldn't seat. When I removed it from the wire, it tore the wire back a bit, which isn't great when everything is made basically to size exactly. Put it on the car to see how much slack I had, and... well, crap, the driver side coil leads are all too short with the rest in place, I must have moved them slightly when I sealed the harness up.
Good news was that they were just routed wrong, so I had to remove all the connectors on that harness branch (that's lots of fun), cut the shrink back, move the wires where they should have been (each one was one "branch point" too far forward) then re-shrink it, reterminate the coil harness leads and reinstall all of the sensors. Next up, oil pressure sensor. Turns out the connector I bought was keyed wrong, but I still had the OEM connector, so again, depin factory connector, depin new connector, swap. Not a big deal, but annoying.
Next on the list was the PCV bypass for the supercharger, to keep oil/crankcase fumes out of it. The OEM one comes out with the water pump installed, but the replacement won't go in that way. Fun. So I had to pull the power steering pump to pull the water pump (which dumped a bunch of coolant on the floor) so that I could install it. Then the fitting it came with was garbage. Awesome. So I'm going to just plug the bypass outlet port and use my big valve cover evac system. Put the accessories back on and remembered I need to swap the OEM coolant sensor for a LowDoller combo temp/pressure sensor. I can get the OEM one out with the power steering pump in... but I can't torque the replacement. Power steering pump needs to come BACK out.
So, I'm calling it a day for today. LOL
I did order the plug for the PCV bypass system, new knock sensor connector kits (the pins specified for my connectors were wrong and I don't feel like finding the right ones, so I'm just getting new connectors entirely) and a starter solenoid connector kit, because I totally forgot to order one when I bought the rest. I also ordered some resistors I need to allow me to 12V switch a couple inputs on the Motec PDM since I need to use a 12V switch for at least the ignition "wake up" input, as well a 5 pin connector to terminate to the Motec "UTC - USB to CAN" connector. They sell a connector kit for like 40 dollars, but I looked at it and it's clearly just 5 pin XLR, so I ordered a 2 pack for 7 dollars that should work just fine.
Anyway...
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MoTeC goodies (mostly) call came in:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-190225173541-1435425.gif)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-190225173547-14365850.jpeg)
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HAHA you beat me to the FF quote. Nice haul man!
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(https://media4.giphy.com/media/Zk9mW5OmXTz9e/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95232ut8x5stt3e6hymw96n1hcotlros9in88518si4&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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I will note, that I spent much, much less than 10K dollars on this kit, but retail on it all is about $11k, which is kind of crazy.
I'm hoping in the next few weeks I'll build a quick bench harness to spin up the ECU and PDM, and hopefully finish up the chassis wiring so that I can spin it up in the chassis properly.
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Got the Katech ported throttle body swapped in. That was zero drama, as expected. Won't make a huge difference, but it was cheap and I know removing intake restriction is critical on a blower.
I'm about halfway through swapping in the +30 injectors. That's... fussy. There are big nasty clips that hold the injectors in, and even once removed, they're really, really -IN- those rails. Pulling them out, carefully, is not the easiest thing in the world. Once those are done, I can put the blower back on and get back to sorting out the wiring harness.
Hoping to finish the above on Sunday (tournament tomorrow) and finish the last of the engine harness work (knock sensor sub harnesses, starter connector install) and then figure out where the PDM will live in the engine bay, and design a bracket for it and for the M142 ECU (will go in the fender like stock, probably), and also sort out where the wideband box will live (probably on the engine somewhere with a bracket). Once the hardware is mounted, I can start building the rest of the harness, and then do my fuel system work.
Hopefully my axle shafts are done (again) soon, as those look easier to install with the suspension sitting on the floor. :D
Planning to make an update video shortly, as well.
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What cam is in the engine and I assume you have all the injector characterizations.
I've been working at an engine machine shop as a CNC, 3d design, engine tuner and who knows what else. Anywho, we have an LSA that came in to be built and they were adamant we use a specific cam. 16° of overlap and on a 3.5in pulley only made 7psi when it should have made 15. Dude is quite annoyed and just said put a smaller pulley on it. We tried telling him the cam was way off about 6 times.
2650 Kong blower and some 118-120mm throttle body. I hope you can adjust the linear of the pedal blade relation. It's still on a stock ECU and is violent off idle.
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1. It's a Tick "Stage 2" blower cam.
2. They're modified OEM injectors, so in theory they're relatively close to stock overall. That's the one area that will need some "messing with" to get dialed in I think.
3. I have all of the cam profile info and the calculators to sort out the timings.
4. Pump timing on the new cam is the same, so that should carry over with just a mod to the "displacement".
Profiling throttle curves and all that kind of stuff is super customizable, traction control and those types of things (controlling boost bypass, etc.) was a lot of why I wanted a stand alone. OEM ECUs drive me nuts after years of having more control. That's also why I never considered Holley, as I don't like how much they limit my ability to do whatever I want, particularly in the lower models. Makes me angry.
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Quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_5-BfoWdb0
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Drew up a quick bracket to install the MoTeC M142 in the OEM mounting position.
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-240225120509-143662226.png)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-240225120509-143661904.png)
Printing in PETG now. :)
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Built a quick bench harness for the M142 and pulled down the base tune to start prepping for my combo. 6 wires for a bench harness, not too bad. A bench power supply is something I wish I bought a LONG time ago!
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Saw a post in some Aston group about swapping something like a vantage drive line. It had a transverse 8hp iirc.
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Built a quick bench harness for the M142 and pulled down the base tune to start prepping for my combo. 6 wires for a bench harness, not too bad. A bench power supply is something I wish I bought a LONG time ago!
When I went to bench test my ECU I dug around my boxes and found a wall-wart-type universal power supply that could be switched to 12V/1A. That was enough to get the ECU up and talking. I did get a nice 0-30V/10A benchtop power supply for Christmas that I can use for stuff like this and also maybe some zinc plating?
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Yeah, that was my same process for a long time. Working with lots of electronic circuit stuff, the bench unit becomes helpful quick. I could also, in theory, weed out my extra wall warts. I won't, but, ya know, I could. :D
I figured out the location for the PDM (bolted to the lid of the OEM fuse box) and main power relay. Found some nice pretty stainless bolts to use for it all, too. It was a total of 4 revisions to get a "final" version of the ECU bracket. My first one had braces that were in the way. V2 didn't consider vertical clearances. V3 fixed those, but put it too far toward the wheel liner. V4 addressed all of those and fits great. It's a bit more chonky that is has to be, but isn't particularly heavy, so it's fine.
I did find out that my 70* side exit connector seals won't work, which is annoying. They aim too much toward the fender liner and would need a somewhat aggressive bend to clear. It looks like going straight down like my previous OEM ECU harness did will work best, so I ordered another set of seals that go that way. Good news is I needed 2 more seals for my PDM anyway, so I'm only wasting... err, adding spares... 2 seals total.
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Working with lots of electronic circuit stuff, the bench unit becomes helpful quick. I could also, in theory, weed out my extra wall warts. I won't, but, ya know, I could.
Holy crap, this is so me. Gotta keep 'em "just in case!". And yep, a bench top power supply with adjustable current limit is something that sounds "nice to have someday" until you get one, then you wonder how you got along without it.
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Spent about 15 hours this weekend working on mounting MoTeC stuff and finishing the harness.
Like all wiring work there is basically nothing to see. LOL. I did get the ECU in place on a bracket, and found locations for the PDM, ground buss (I like the big DT ground buss setups as it's cleaner than a bunch of splices) and a big 150 amp relay that will be what turns the PDM on (which will turn the ECU on). The MoTeC setup doesn't need any battery constant, so I'm running the big relay off the chassis ignition switch to run the MoTeC stuff. Basically the way they recommend it for a racecar. My PDM -only- runs the engine stuff (no chassis integration) so it keeps the systems fully divorced, power wise.
Hoping to finish the engine harness next week/weekend and start getting the chassis side going. That's a LOT easier build, at least.
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Wiring! Excitement!
1/4 of the ECU connectors done. Boy this stuff is tedious. LOL
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Nice progress, Blake. Have you dug into the Motec software much yet? I'm curious how user-friendly it is.
I've lost track of this project, are you doing a full motorsports-quality harness? Concentric twist, Tefzel, DR-25, Autosport connectors?
I'm excited to see how the DI tuning goes. Sounds like a whole different world from PI fuel tuning.
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Nice progress, Blake. Have you dug into the Motec software much yet? I'm curious how user-friendly it is.
I've lost track of this project, are you doing a full motorsports-quality harness? Concentric twist, Tefzel, DR-25, Autosport connectors?
I'm excited to see how the DI tuning goes. Sounds like a whole different world from PI fuel tuning.
1. I've poked around in it a fair bit. Layout isn't the most user friendly (not surprised) but it's not bad. There are a few things that are still a bit confusing (I seem to have two unrelated fueling tables, for example) and building certain kinds of customization is a little complex. That's all just artifacts of "a dealer/tuner made this firmware so it does things how they think it makes sense" though. If I really, really want to, I can buy a Dev license for it and make it do anything I want though. I expect that will probably happen eventually, becuase I like poking at things.
2. It's an almost motorsports harness. I'm using OEM connectors on the engine, with no subharnesses, and the M142 ECU uses SuperSeal, not autosport stuff. It is all concentric twist, tefzel, DR25, booted (or SCL) transitions, etc. though. I also went full ham on shielding so my Crank, Cam, Knock, DBW motor and CAN data cables are all fully shielded which is totally unnecessary but I had the wire, so...
The next thing to dig into once I get the wiring done will be the PDM setup, as it's very different than the others I've used (Hardwire, Haltech and ECUMaster). It has some learning curve, but you literally write basic code to manage your output behaviors and I'm a HUGE fan of that, conceptually. I also need to figure out if I can make the programmable CAN outputs on the ECU run my OEM gauges (it -should- work) and if I can use the programmable inputs to pick up wheel speed from the ABS module (again, it -should- work). Then I could have 4x wheel speed without adding sensors and that will make traction control a lot easier (and that's kinda the whole point of this MoTeC endeavor).
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Engine harness is done, minus a couple brackets I need to fabricate to hold some stuff where I want it, and maybe a little shielding here and there.
Chassis harness is in progress. Boy, this is fun. Stuff runs ALL over the place and it connects the PDM, E888 (CAN Expander), Wideband, chassis/engine connector, ground block and CAN networks. So there are lots of different things crossing over between concentric bundles. Makes it a pain to build and keep track of, for sure. I'm about 50% done on building the engine bay side... I think. The E888 and chassis/engine harness connectors are wired up.
Finishing PDM wires next, then I can sleeve it all in DR25, finish the engine bay side connectors (PDM, wideband, a few sensors, vacuum pump, intercooler pump) and install it. Once the interior "whip" is run through the firewall I'll figure out exactly where the E888 and CAN busses go, and wire that up.
Once ALL that is done, I need to run a bundle to the transmission, and add a bulkhead to the interior for the new fuel system wiring, then mount/wire the brushless fuel pump controller/relay/fuses in the rear bin storage area. Then hopefully I can start testing all the sensors/wiring/controls.
I still need to sort out the dash interconnect, CAN messaging to/from the chassis and design/print an adapter for my display screen (going in a dash vent).
My martial arts schedule goes full stupid in a couple weeks, so progress will slow down some, but trying to do "something every day" to keep things moving forward.
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ECU in place and wired up; you can see bits of the bracket I designed/printed. This is the OEM location and behind the fender liner/out of the elements (mostly):
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-110325215054-14368811.jpeg)
Wiring/routing. Not sure why these rotated weird:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-110325215052-14368859.jpeg)
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-110325215057-143711357.jpeg)
Big mess of wires that are slowly transforming into the chassis harness:
(https://www.norotors.com/gallery/1-110325215103-14372934.jpeg)