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Technical Information => General Tech => Topic started by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 06:53:23 PM

Title: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 06:53:23 PM
Yes the thread title is odd.

I want to start racing time trial in the NASA series. Right now my car would be classed as a TT1, and TT1 has a maximum power to weight ratio of 5.5:1. TT2 has a maximum power to weight ratio of 8:1.

Right now based on the allowances for the car's weight and tire sizes, I am at a power to weight ratio of 7.43:1. I would undoubtedly be killed in TT1, but if I add a little ballast, and drop about 30 HP at the wheels, I can be just over 8:1, and hopefully classed in TT2.

What is the best way to do this? Put a restrictor in the intake? Back off ignition timing? Lower the rev limiter? I don't want to change anything mechanically in the engine if I can avoid it. Ideally I would like to just build a tune and use an intake restrictor plate to make less power.

Ideas? Thoughts?



Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Skeltic on February 03, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
the patented wood under the gas pedal would work.

Serious though, you want as much power in your torque curve as possible, so something to cut power at the top end would be ideal, I think there is a way in the ls ecu that you can set max torque, so I would look into that, I know that you can program it to throw a code and go into limp mode if you go over the set torque number, I am unsure weather you can change it from throwing a code to just cutting spark, like the rev limiter.


Good luck
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Speedfab on February 03, 2015, 07:15:35 PM
If they are only looking at PEAK power, don't restrict a damn thing - kill it by retarding timing just where you need it to lop the peak off the power curve and make it nice and flat there.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 07:19:19 PM
I have a pretty broad powerband, but looking at my dyno graph I won't drop the peak power unless I do something other than dropping the rev limiter. That is a good point on the torque management, that might be worth playing with.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/Dyno10-19-14_zps49ae1332.jpg)
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 07:21:32 PM
If they are only looking at PEAK power, don't restrict a damn thing - kill it by retarding timing just where you need it to lop the peak off the power curve and make it nice and flat there.

Thanks Tracy.

Yea they are just looking at peak, but my peak is more like a mesa. If I can get there just by dropping timing, I am all for that. I am running 25 degrees up top now, I can see what 20 or 21 degrees would do.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: twokrx7 on February 03, 2015, 08:10:13 PM
Find a stingy dyno??
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Speedfab on February 03, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
If they are only looking at PEAK power, don't restrict a damn thing - kill it by retarding timing just where you need it to lop the peak off the power curve and make it nice and flat there.

Thanks Tracy.

Yea they are just looking at peak, but my peak is more like a mesa. If I can get there just by dropping timing, I am all for that. I am running 25 degrees up top now, I can see what 20 or 21 degrees would do.

Where do you need to be?  I could make that power curve a nice flat line at 370 in about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Bowtie7 on February 03, 2015, 08:38:05 PM
Can you race it with the timing yanked out? Won't the egt go high? Am i just thinking in rotard tunology?
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Bowtie7 on February 03, 2015, 08:39:04 PM
Ash, the other option would be to run in NASA-SE region where rules are merely a suggestion.......
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: mattster03 on February 03, 2015, 09:05:16 PM
How do they check your HP?  Do they actually check your HP?
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: MPbdy on February 03, 2015, 09:07:40 PM
How about we make MORE power and go into TT1  :yay:
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 09:18:30 PM
Where do you need to be?  I could make that power curve a nice flat line at 370 in about 10 minutes.

365-370 WHP should do it. I still need to get the car weighed to figure out the specific power number.

If I am under 3000 lbs race weight (wet with driver) I take a slight hit as well. I am thinking I'll be around 2900 race weight, but if I am within striking distance of 3000 I'll add a bit of ballast and run a full tank of gas.

The good news is that I can run up to 275mm tires for free, and I am planning on going to 275s all around anyway.

Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 09:23:54 PM
How do they check your HP?  Do they actually check your HP?


You dyno your car, submit the plots and paperwork to NASA and the dyno operator signs off on it. It is largely an honor based system.

It has to be a Dynojet, Mustang or Dyno Dynamics, and they tell you the settings the output needs to be.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 09:26:35 PM
Can you race it with the timing yanked out? Won't the egt go high? Am i just thinking in rotard tunology?

I don't think I'd have to pull that much timing where EGT would be an issue. I'm going to look at a stock timing map from an Fbody here shortly.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 09:28:20 PM
How about we make MORE power and go into TT1  :yay:

Lol. That's just what I need.. To spend MORE on tires and brakes! :bacon:
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Speedfab on February 03, 2015, 09:53:22 PM
No Charlie, the little bit of retard it would take to kill off 30whp wouldn't hurt a thing.  Plus I can make him a little relay and resistor setup for his IAT sensor that you could operate by, say, the high beam switch, that could put back whatever timing got taken out on an "as needed" basis.  Wait, what?
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
Yea "push to pass" would be fun :)

I am still going to get obliterated running TT2. Looking at the level of development of the cars and track records, I'm 5-6 seconds off the class records for the tracks in my area.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 11:21:21 PM
I just looked and the stock F body tune has 6-7 degrees less timing than my tune. I would think dropping to that timing map alone might get me there.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: MPbdy on February 04, 2015, 01:27:22 AM
You only want to kill power upstairs.  Do you have access to HPTuners yourself?  It's really an easy thing to do to adjust the timing map.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: largeorangefont on February 04, 2015, 02:03:47 AM
Yea I can mess with it in HP tuners.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: ZDan on February 04, 2015, 04:55:07 AM
Just run it in TT1 with full power.  Killing the power will only make it less fun.  Or less interesting, anyway :P  I TT my car and routinely get killed by more track-oriented and better-driven C5 Z06s, but no way would I detune just to run a slower class.  Hell, it's just time trials!
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: cool on February 04, 2015, 07:47:09 AM
No Charlie, the little bit of retard it would take to kill off 30whp wouldn't hurt a thing.  Plus I can make him a little relay and resistor setup for his IAT sensor that you could operate by, say, the high beam switch, that could put back whatever timing got taken out on an "as needed" basis.  Wait, what?

This is what I was thinking. 
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: cyipher on February 04, 2015, 09:20:17 AM
I went ahead and redyno'd your car for you while you were sleeping...

(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p270/cyipher/Dyno10-19-14_zps49ae1332_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: scuter83 on February 04, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
Agreed with the pull spark.  With a drive by cable throttle, if you try to limit torque in the ECM, it is just gonna pull spark anyway since it has no airpath authority.
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: Cman on February 04, 2015, 09:50:52 AM
A local guy here was running an LS powered Camaro in CMC. He used a restrictor. If I remember right it was surprising small to get the power where he needed it. In fact he used two and they were like 50mm or less.

Steve
Title: Re: Best way to make less power?
Post by: AKINA FC on February 22, 2015, 01:20:04 PM
Way late to the party here as I just seen this Ash but Tracy is right on the money as you can make that engine sing 370 from 4800 to redline pretty easy if that's how you want to do it. Have you tried just ballasting up the car? From your numbers you can ballast up to 3100lbs loaded and leave the power alone - with running your dot approved 275 tires, you get a bonus of .3 for that - put that weight were you want it, this is what I do to stay in TT1, I am 3100/560.