NoRotors.com - RX7 Engine Swap Forum
Technical Information => Forced Induction/Nitrous => Topic started by: Scottie-GNZ on April 11, 2012, 04:10:10 PM
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...from the DEEP DARK SIDE!
Been having a shitload of weird issues for the past year or more and now the 2JZ took a dump and you know what they say about the camel and straw. Friday night I was out testing, just doing launches, and the engine let go. 0 compression in #1, all the rest w/in a few % of 150psi. I put #1 on TDC and put 60psi in it and had a hurricane coming out the dipstick tube. Pulled the head and as expected, there is a hole in #1, #4 had part of the plug ground strap burnt off and the entire electrode on #5 plug was gone, peppering the piston and chamber. The turbo is tight and the intake was flooded with oil from the turbo.
As always, everything that happens to me is a mystery. Made 3 hits, none under power much pass 100'. Was launching @ 11psi with 12.0:1 AFR and going to 23+psi with 11.0:1 AFR (E85). On the 3rd pass, the engine had a bad hiccup and puffed a cloud of smoke, but I drove back to the pits and home on 5cyls, knowing serious damage was already done. That's the kind of detonation you expect to see down track with lots of boost and pump gas or 13+:1 AFR. Talked to a couple of experts and the turbo is suspect. They think the turbo bearing started to fail, blew the seal and dumped a load of oil in the engine which instantly took away all the octane. Kaboom!
Looking at a set of pistons/rings, redoing the shortblock, finding another head and redoing the head. Having to spend that kind of $$, I decided to go in a different direction with my 3rd favorite engine setup, a turbo'd LQ4. 2nd choice is a Buick Stage II V6, but can't afford that. Lots of 2JZ stuff I can salvage and sell and I can reuse the converter, glide and I/C. Already have the build sorted out in my mind having already done a turbo LS1 but the hard part will probably be finding an LQ4 for a reasonable price.
I want to match the 2J power so looking at 900+RWHP. Thinking piston, rods, cam and probably a T6 turbo to match. Won't be cutting corners but also don't want to let cost get out of hand.
For the LS experts out there, what the heck is the scoop on intake manifolds for a turbo setup? What's wrong with the truck intake besides being "not pretty" and possible hood clearance (neither an issue for me).
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For the LS experts out there, what the heck is the scoop on intake manifolds for a turbo setup? What's wrong with the truck intake besides being "not pretty" and possible hood clearance (neither an issue for me).
Not an LS expert (or anything expert), but there's nothing wrong with the truck intake, besides being "not pretty" (knowing glance), and possibly hood clearance.
ETA: But the truck intakes do have less plenum and runner volume. While this boosts low-end/part-throttle torque, on a turbo setup I might take the bigger volumes of another intake.
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Truck intakes make more power than an LS3 manifold actually. You don't need a T6 turbo for 900whp unless you find a cheap BW or something. Just buy an LQ4 long block and have at it.
Glad you're coming to the darker side. haha.
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keep the 2jz!!
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I know the TB and IM inlet size can become a restriction at higher HP levels on the LS6 and truck intakes, but I'm right where you plan to be, and it wasn't an issue.
You're right on the money with the engine parts. Pistons, rods, cam, port the 317's, LS9 gaskets, head/main studs, upgraded stock rockers, etc. T6 may be a bit excessive, to be honest, though. A CEA78 with a good sized a/r would be pretty bitchin.
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keep the 2jz!!
+1, 2JZ > *
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I know whatever you put together will be bad ass and haul ass Scottie. :)
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Welcome back Scottie.
Looking forward to whatever you build. :popcorn:
Are you sticking with the Fox body or going back to RX7?
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I really like the idea of the 2jz mustang, just because it HAS to piss off 'mustang people'.
I do understand the feeling of throwing money at something though, when the 6 in my Datsun goes, it's getting an LS of some sort.
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keep the 2jz!!
+1, 2JZ > *
*No shit.
I really like the idea of the 2jz mustang, just because it HAS to piss off 'mustang people'.
Chevy motor does this and kicks it up a notch.
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Engine is in with the mid-plate and being supported in the front until I fab up the k-member mount brackets.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/testfit.jpg)
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Excellant job Scottie.........real men use wood in their mock-ups, not cardboard.
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looks good!
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Hey Scottie,
That's not the LS from your S10 is it?
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No. My truck has an LM4, aluminum 5.3L. This is an LQ9.
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making progress. Are you going to put Vbands on the truck manifolds?
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It will either be truck manifolds with v-bands or C6 manifolds, ala Zac. Question is whether or not they clear the k-member mount brackets and the steering shaft. Working on picking up a set and if they don't work, that's more stuff I will need to sell later.
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I can tell you C6 manifolds clear everything with room to spare. Truck manifolds can be modified to work, but will require work.
I can take some pictures of my C6 manifold clearance if it would help.
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I was hoping to snag a set on eBay but someone else was determined to get it all cost, so I stopped the bidding war. I will just cut off my truck manifold flanges and add v-bands.
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I will see if my machinist can work his magic and make my set look like these.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/moddedtruckmanifolds.jpg)
He did these for me a couple of years ago for another project.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/moddedcastmanifold.jpg)
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+ls
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Hey Scottie how about the stock 06-Present Z06 manifolds? Those are nice pieces as well.
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More progress. K-member brackets for solid mounts done. S480 mounted on frame rail. On to the turbo plumbing.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/s480finalfit1.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/s480finalfit2.jpg)
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need to change the sig now ;) , I like it. That 2jz setup was SWEET!
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I like it! I can hear the ford guys bitchin already...
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that 480 is going to make some power for you :)
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OK guys, need a little help here. Had the truck manifolds modded for v-bands but don't like how the driver's side fits. Too close to the alternator in the F-body configuration. I could chop off the v-band and try to reposition it but would rather sell them and try the Z06 manifolds. However, there seems to be several models of these. What year manifolds should I be looking for? I would like the ones like Zac has on his setup where the exhaust flange is at the base of the collector.
Zac, do you have any pics of your manifolds before they were modified?
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hey Scottie, i can tell you that the driver side manifold can be built up on the bottom and look pretty good to, thats how i had it on my gto and it came out perfect between the power steering pump and above the alternator, looked great too.
old pic, but here it is. I actually re used this on my mustang, on the passenger side, flipped up.
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo102/shafft625/IMG_20101030_150046.jpg)
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That's an option that works great with the turbo on the pass-side like your setup. Look at the pic I have above and you see the merge pipe under the turbo. That pipe will be trimmed about 2+" as needed, but it would still be an impossible angle to go from the merge pipe facing down to the manifold facing forward. The Z06 manifold like Zac's has the exit further back and facing downward so it would connect to my merge pipe with a gentler bend.
Should have gone with them in the first place but these came with the LQ9. Not a financial loss, just loss of time. Sure I can find a set on the Corvette forums, just need to know exactly what to ask for. The only ones I see for sale have some sort of EGR port between 2 cylinders and have a long collector. The newer ones with the big oval collector are expensive.
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scottie the manifolds themselves werent modded aside from just tigging a bead around as a seal
blake has some pics too and his is very close to mine
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/rotary1307cc/370/turbobuild115.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/rotary1307cc/370/turbobuild028.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/rotary1307cc/370/turbobuild056.jpg)
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They are "C6 LS2 exhaust manifolds" if you look for them. They sell for about 100-125 dollars a pair, shipped, over on CorvetteForums, and when I put up a WTB over there I got like 10 offers in 3 days. Easy to get at.
I have two cars in my garage with turbo kits VERY similar to the one Zac has. They work really well.
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Thank you, Sir.
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Aaaargh!!!!! I really F'ed up big time with these manifolds and kicking myself in the ass!
Found and bought a pair of LS2 manifolds and stupid me sold the modded truck manifolds even before I got LS2s and now they don't fit. Neither side! The outlet on both sides are too close to motor mount brackets and since the manifold is thicker, it interferes with the steering flex joint. Exactly what I thought would happen in the first place. Luckily I have another pair of truck manifolds, so here we go again.
Anyone need a pair of LS2 manifolds?
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Welllllll shit. Sorry man. They fit great on FCs. :(
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Have you looked into the ls3 manifolds? They seem to be the new hot ticket around here. I ended up with 6 sets of LS manifolds. None of them fit. ::)
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Good to see you back at it Scottie! Hope all is well with you.
Andrew
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Hey Andrew. How you been?
Update: Hot and cold side plumbing all done and engine pulled and dropped off at the machine shop for rods/pistons/ARP hardware.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/manifoldsandx-over.jpg)
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lookin good!
What size wastegate and diameter crossover piping?
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X-over pipes are 2.5" and WG is a JGS 50mm. The WG pipe comes off the merge collector at 45* then has a slight bend to take it away from the turbine housing. When I get the DP and exhaust done next week, I will mount up the turbo, piping and WG so the setup will be a little clearer.
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Nice work Scottie!
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Decided to do a bullhorn. Whaddayathink? :poke:
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/bullhorn.jpg)
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moar!
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Everything else is done but hit a snag with the engine assembly that caused a delay. Buddy could not find his piston ring filer so we rigged up an alternative but underestimated how aggressive it would file. Oops! Screwed up the 1st ring. Rest came out fine but had to special order a single-cylinder set to avoid buying a complete set. Should have it done in a couple of days.
9.5:1 Mahle, Eagle rods, ARP main studs.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/block.jpg)
DP and exhaust. All 4" aluminum with a magnaflow.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/dp-exhaust.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/plumbing1.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/plumbing2.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/muffler1.jpg)
WG Dump
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/WGdump.jpg)
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Looks good Scottie. :)
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Looking good Scottie, aim that exhaust slightly to the rear, for a little added "thrust".
I hope to see this set-up in action, when I come down this fall.
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Got my itchy finger on the start button......but not quite yet. Driveshaft was a .5" too long so had to take it back, need to spend a little time in the back room at Autozone to "rig" up coolant hoses, need to finish the dipstick mod (PITA), some minor wiring and fill up the liquids.
Not keen on cranking the engine dry hoping I get oil pressure quickly, so I am going to try a little drill-driven pump from HF and try to put all the oil in with some pressure.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/8-18-2.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/8-18-1.jpg)
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looks real good!
where those 2618 or 4032 pistons?
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Looks good! What water pump pulley is that?
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4032.
Supposed to be LS1 WP. Something look different about it?
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Looks the same as my '98 LS1 water pump off an F-body.
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Thats odd, my 98 F-body LS1 had this pump. It doesn't have the bolts on it like the one in scotties pics, it's just pressed on. The snout looks like it sticks out farther as well.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Hybridgnx/IMG_20120811_204635.jpg)
The pump in this thread looks like it would give me some additional room up front. All the aftermarket units look like the unit I have. I'd like to try out the one with the bolts on it like you have.
I found a few similar to yours on google pics. But all the vendor sites and ebay don't seem to carry the water pump with the bolts.
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I don't think the overall length is any different, FWIW. I've owned about all the different water pumps they make for LS motors over the years. The LS2 ones are the tightest in, but you have to pull the pulley out a bit for F-Body accessory offset.
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Great job Scottie. Very clean, nicely laid out and we all know it will haul the mail. I'm excited to see it run.
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looks good so far!
What size injectors did you go with? e85?
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Injectors are Bosch 160# hi-impedance.
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nice.... you need to change your signature Scottie..... :chug:
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But all the vendor sites and ebay don't seem to carry the water pump with the bolts.
I think they were usually found on early C5 vettes.
Randomly I did find one on Ebay, figure I post it up if you were interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Camaro-Water-Pump-Ls1-/221108393828?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337b165764&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Camaro-Water-Pump-Ls1-/221108393828?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337b165764&vxp=mtr)
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Up and running, but not without some, ahem........challenges.
MAP sensor readout was way off, 69.3kPa with key-on/engine-off, coolant sensor was 35*F high and engine would get very hot quickly from a t-stat stucked closed. Kinda pointless trying to start and tune the engine with those sensors being off and took a while to discovered that the ECM was built with a 4-bar instead of the standard 2.5-bar and I had the scaling set for a 2.5-bar. MAP sensor is inside the box so I did not see it. Fixing the MAP setting also corrected the coolant sensor readout. Surprised to find I could get a 160*F t-stat/housing from Autozone but have not installed it yet. Duralast part #37960 if anyone is interested.
Put the car aside to work on my generator which has been sitting for 3-yrs :-[ Spent most of the day chasing down a carb rebuild kit. Want to be ready in case Isaac makes a right.
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Glad to hear it's coming along. :)
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1 step forward, 1 step back.
Took the car for it's maiden voyage yesterday after days of on/off rain. 1st impression was that the V8 was not as smooth as the inline-6, but soon as I started to put some power down, I knew I had a driveline vibration. Nothing was changed in the rear but when I checked, the pinion was 3.5+* up instead of 2.5* down! Had to call it quits yesterday and today is my anniversary so I stayed out of the garage to make wifey happy. Suspect something might be bent/broken
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Looking forward to seein what the new #'s are going to be.
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Hope you are fairing well with the hurricane. Give us an update when you can.
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We got spared....again. Redoing the rear suspension alignment with hopes of making it out for a few light hits on Friday.
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Broke out the GoPro I bought several months ago and did a walkaround with the engine idling in the driveway. Bit of a crap video as I used the default GoPro mode 4 which gives sort of a bird's eye view and for some reason, the audio is barely audible, so you need to crank up the volume just to hear it idle.
LS Stang Walkaround (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfBHkPQsG5w&feature=plcp#)
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I love this car.. awesome work!
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that thing is bad ass Scottie! Nice setup.
Now change your signature ;)
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I assumed you are all good Scottie after the hurricane and suffered no real damage/issues to your property/vehicles? Any updates?
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Hurricane did not affect my area, but been waiting 4 weeks to get the car out because of rainouts and vacation. Took the car out Friday night but quit after 2 hits. Need to make suspension adjustments - pulling to the left and blowing off the tires on the launch. More concerned about electrical glitches though. Burned up the alternator last week and barely made it home with the voltage down to 8.9v. No idea how the engine kept running. Replaced the alternator, but Friday night, the battery voltage was erratic and dropped down to 12.1v during a pass. Datalog showed several Loss Syncs and it was running lean with the pump getting such low voltage. Now suspect the problem is the Optima Red Top and going to replace it since I cannot even remember how long ago I bought it. I am sure it is more than 3 yrs old, maybe 4. Would not be surprised if the Optima caused the alternator failure.
I am amazed at how quick I can spool this turbo. It is a T6 S480 with a 97mm turbine wheel and 1.32 a/r housing and it is spooling too fast. Gonna have to play with pulling timing and richening up the fuel during spoolup and maybe replacing the ATF with heavy weight JD Hyguard.
Wanted to shake out the bugs and I got them ::)
Oh yeah, Zak was there with his turbo FD. Man, what a gorgeous car!
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Scotty, it was great to meet ya finally! Once you get the few bugs worked out in your car its gonna be a runner... Did you find out about the voltage issue? Call the alternator place too?
Zak
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Hey Zak,
car has been sitting outside in the rain since Saturday :( and only thing I was able to do was replace the battery, remove the front-end limiters and order some softer rear springs. I did send a datalog in for analysis and it was recommended I reinstall the firmware since there appears to be possible corruption. Got caught up in some projects that I had committed to get done.
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What factory manifolds did you end up with? I remember some being better to weld on for some reason?
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What factory manifolds did you end up with? I remember some being better to weld on for some reason?
If you mean the Mustang, I am using truck manifolds, flipped with v-bands. Nothing special to weld.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/manifoldsandx-over.jpg)
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Good to see you still showing the kids how to do things the right way! Been a long time since we met in Reynolds. You still see Mike around?
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A blast from the past! How you been?
Still see Mike, but he is married with a couple of kids and got rid of all the cars.
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Been good! Tell Mike I said hi! I sure wish I had time to build another project. I miss the community.
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Looks like the local drag strip will still be around in 2013, so I am making some upgrades. Replaced the LS1 intake with an Edelbrock Pro-Flo, got a pair of MT 275 Pros to replace the old worn-out ones on the car and made some more suspension changes. Turns out the PTC converter I was using was all wrong for this engine setup. It was originally built for the high-RPM 2JZ, so sold it and got another that should work better with 6.0L. Anxious to get back out.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/pro-flo2.jpg)
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/Scottie-GNZ/pro-flo1.jpg)
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nice work! I've heard the M/T Pros are the fastest 275 radial out.
When will you be racing again?
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Some of the badass DR cars are sixty-footing in the low 1.teens with a best of 1.12. Sounds almost impossible with that much power and such a miniscule tire.
Anxious to get back out but it all depends on the fate of the local track. Supposed to be an announcement today. Only other choices I have is to drive 65 miles each way to run 1/8-mile or 150 miles each way to Bradenton or Gainesville. I am going to run the car hard, but if I break, that's way too far from home. Hope I don't end up selling the car.